(Topic ID: 83994)

JJP's investment opportunity fall through?


By Part_3

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by blondetall
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    #201 5 years ago

    People are allowed to think whatever they wish, if you think what you do because you spend way too much time looking for black helicopters that's fine.. as is not reading a thing and assuming all is well. Either way, I don't care as it's up to the individual how much it bothers them.

    What bothers me right now is that there are 'serious' fixes to these games and the fixes don't seem to be retroactive. If you have a 5v machine with the known issues you don't just get a repair pack to update the machine, you have to have a problem or beg for the fix. JJP standing behind their game has been a sore spot for me in an otherwise good experience.

    #202 5 years ago
    Quoted from FreeplayGames:

    JJP may be insolvent.
    There were significant business issues prior to the news release - laying off staff, suppliers refusing to supply etc - and now the "investor" has apparently bailed. So JJP is back to where it was before the news release - having major production problems that appear to be related to inadequate capital backing and lack of funds.
    The fact that the code and LED problems were fixed 3 years after the game was first promised is a welcome but long overdue fix for problems that were the result of the game being rushed to market.

    You might want to be careful. You are stating things as facts that might not be true unless you have more information than most outsiders have.

    #203 5 years ago

    No mater what happens there will be happy JJP fans. If they fold collectors will say there games are rare man. If they don't fold all games get delivered .

    #204 5 years ago
    Quoted from gambit3113:

    Sit down, Kaneda. .

    Gambit - I can see your opinion on Kaneda, but I'd like your opinion on Freeplaygames.

    He joined Pinside on 3/2/14. Posted about coming to TPF to buy a container load of pins. He's pretending to be American, but is most likely Australian. And he seems to have a revenge factor against JJP.

    12
    #205 5 years ago
    Quoted from FreeplayGames:

    Kaneda, you're missing the point, JJP may be insolvent.
    There were significant business issues prior to the news release - laying off staff, suppliers refusing to supply etc - and now the "investor" has apparently bailed. So JJP is back to where it was before the news release - having major production problems that appear to be related to inadequate capital backing and lack of funds.
    The fact that the code and LED problems were fixed 3 years after the game was first promised is a welcome but long overdue fix for problems that were the result of the game being rushed to market.
    Here's a specific question - Without the "investors" capital injection, where is JJP going to get the cash to buy parts and pay for labour to make the games for the Austrlaian distro who paid $500,000 six months ago - his money is long gone and his games are not yet made.
    Wasn't there also another $100,000 JJP are holding "on behalf" of other Austrlaian customers, What happened to that?
    What happens if the Asutrlaian distro asks for a $500,000 refund?
    In the 50th State it's illegal to trade while insolvent. I assume NJ is the same.

    Ah n, you are making statements which are completely false. Stop making these uneducated, false and libelous statements.

    -8
    #206 5 years ago
    Quoted from lost8ball:

    Gambit - I can see your opinion on Kaneda, but I'd like your opinion on Freeplaygames.
    He joined Pinside on 3/2/14. Posted about coming to TPF to buy a container load of pins. He's pretending to be American, but is most likely Australian. And he seems to have a revenge factor against JJP.

    You spend too much time at the luakini. This is about pinball and one man's ambition to make games using everyone else's money. There is nothing wrong with that, unless the maker does not have the financial means of following through. I think he's too much cowboy and not enough horse.

    -11
    #207 5 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    Ah n, you are making statements which are completely false. Stop making these uneducated, false and libelous statements.

    While you are on here Jack, where did your investor go?

    #208 5 years ago

    There is a big difference from asking specific questions as in the investor change on the page to flat out stating unfounded guesses.
    Safe to say none of us support that.

    16
    #209 5 years ago

    FreePlayGames started account 3/2/2014 . Apparently to bash JJP. There are several new accounts on this thread that are obviously shill accounts so Pinsiders can slam JJP and not worry about their real identity being disclosed.

    17
    #210 5 years ago
    Quoted from FreeplayGames:

    You spend too much time at the luakini. This is about pinball and one man's ambition to make games using everyone else's money. There is nothing wrong with that, unless the maker does not have the financial means of following through. I think he's too much cowboy and not enough horse.

    No, what pisses me off is that 'clever' people join pinside, pretend to be from Hawaii ("Mahalo, peeps"), try to mislead using American vernacular ("Them doggies are goin' west of Texas..."), build a fake cover story (buying a container load of pins from TPF), and then trash the heck out of a pinball manufacturer.

    I don't care if you're against JJP, Stern, JPOP, or whoever. Don't come on here with your agenda and try to play us like we're idiots.

    ps - If some jerkwad from Hawaii does buy a container load of pins from TPF, someone let me know. I'll donate $100 to pinside (I'm pretty sure I have a better chance of winning the lottery).

    -1
    #211 5 years ago

    Time will tell all................The real question in my opinion is not whether Jack runs out of money, but how much longer is he going to want to deal with us and this industry. Let's be honest, I think it is safe to say, things didn't turn out the way he thought it would. With remakes coming out, there will be pressure on demand and margins..........Not too mention direct competition from the same people that supplied you your parts.

    #212 5 years ago

    I think the next logical step for PL is a RS/FH hybrid game with three giant plastic heads. It'll be like the Shick/GIllette "add a razor" wars--let's see how many we can get on there. There's a challenge, widebody or no.

    #213 5 years ago
    Quoted from FreeplayGames:

    You spend too much time at the luakini. This is about pinball and one man's ambition to make games using everyone else's money. There is nothing wrong with that, unless the maker does not have the financial means of following through. I think he's too much cowboy and not enough horse.

    Many people have received their games including myself. Jack and JJP did an awesome job with WOZ and made a fully loaded widebody pin with tons of toys, features, LCD and offered complete code...all for their first game. That sounds like being a cowboy (taking the risks to make a complex pin in these times) that also got the job done.

    #214 5 years ago

    JJP is at least trying. I will give him a thumbs up for that.

    Ps, I love the game.(woz)

    -6
    #215 5 years ago

    Maybe we should start a new thread "Does FreeplayGames have AIDS?" That would be every bit as helpful and factual to the current situation as this thread.

    Speculation that is couched in such a way to make someone look bad isn't helpful at all.

    I think most of us want Jack to succeed. There are, however, exceptions... and those individuals can go ___________ themselves.

    #216 5 years ago

    When FreeplayGames uses words like "may" and "apparently" in his posts ... I'm pretty sure that means he knows he is not presenting facts and I certainly did not take them as facts. Good luck with any libel suit there.

    I sold (traded actually) my own Hobbit pre-order because of lack of transparency. The fact that we're 14-15 months into Hobbit development (or at least when JJP started taking pre-orders) and we still have not seen a working white wood or even so much as a list of features that are specific to the LE only was just too frustrating for me. Heck, we don't even know if there will be a "regular" version of Hobbit.

    Another reason I did get out of Hobbit (for now at least) is because I do have a hard time seeing how JJP is solvent at this point and not having financial difficulties. Maybe Jack does have a significant amount of his own money in the business now to keep it going, I have no idea. But it was a little worrisome. 3+ years of paying significant startup costs, salaries, overhead, etc. etc. (not to mention the unforseen costs of fixing the LED issues??) and it's hard to imagine how he couldn't have financial issues right now considering they're still working to get the first 1000 games delivered. I think anyone who has started their own business knows the significant challenges in getting to profitability and after 3 years now ... it's just hard for me to imagine how money is not an issue and concern right now. I don't envy Jack ... but I do admire his determination.

    #217 5 years ago
    Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

    I sold (traded actually) my own Hobbit pre-order because of lack of transparency. The fact that we're 14-15 months into Hobbit development (or at least when JJP started taking pre-orders) and we still have not seen a working white wood or even so much as a list of features that are specific to the LE only was just too frustrating for me. Heck, we don't even know if there will be a "regular" version of Hobbit.

    Another reason I did get out of Hobbit (for now at least) is because I do have a hard time seeing how JJP is solvent at this point and not having financial difficulties. Maybe Jack does have a significant amount of his own money in the business now to keep it going, I have no idea. But it was a little worrisome. 3+ years of paying significant startup costs, salaries, overhead, etc. etc. (not to mention the unforseen costs of fixing the LED issues??) and it's hard to imagine how he couldn't have financial issues right now considering they're still working to get the first 1000 games delivered. I think anyone who has started their own business knows the significant challenges in getting to profitability and after 3 years now ... it's just hard for me to imagine how money is not an issue and concern right now. I don't envy Jack ... but I do admire his determination.

    +1,000,000

    #218 5 years ago
    Quoted from lost8ball:

    No, what pisses me off is that 'clever' people join pinside, pretend to be from Hawaii ("Mahalo, peeps"), try to mislead using American vernacular ("Them doggies are goin' west of Texas..."), build a fake cover story (buying a container load of pins from TPF), and then trash the heck out of a pinball manufacturer.
    I don't care if you're against JJP, Stern, JPOP, or whoever. Don't come on here with your agenda and try to play us like we're idiots.
    ps - If some jerkwad from Hawaii does buy a container load of pins from TPF, someone let me know. I'll donate $100 to pinside (I'm pretty sure I have a better chance of winning the lottery).

    untitled.png

    -3
    #219 5 years ago

    Given that this thread has taken on a life of it's own and the WOZ ship date thread is still running. It makes one wonder how many bridges have been burned .

    13
    #220 5 years ago

    If JJP was close to insolvency why would someone like Pat jump on board a sinking ship? This stuff is ridiculous.

    #221 5 years ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Time will tell all................The real question in my opinion is not whether Jack runs out of money, but how much longer is he going to want to deal with us and this industry. Let's be honest, I think it is safe to say, things didn't turn out the way he thought it would. With remakes coming out, there will be pressure on demand and margins..........Not too mention direct competition from the same people that supplied you your parts.

    My guess is that he wants to deal with us for a long time. Fortunately when I say "us" I mean all of us. The ones that love WOZ and the ones that hate WOZ, and everyone in between. At some point there will not be any pre-orders. It will be announcement followed by games.

    And for all the people chipping at JJP and WOZ, where is the pinball company YOU built? Why am I not getting a chuckle at the lines your game says, or having a blast stacking modes on YOUR game that you built??? I'll help you answer that... Because you can't do it. That doesn't make Jack above anyone else, but at least for him, he built it. There is one sitting in my living room right now. And down the road, if he does another fun one, there will probably be another. And that will be long before any of you other guys put one out.

    #222 5 years ago
    Quoted from juanton:

    If JJP was close to insolvency why would someone like Pat jump on board a sinking ship? This stuff is ridiculous.

    Huh? That's your logic? Pat "jumped on board" so JJP must be in great financial shape? Okay.

    I'm under the impression that Pat is contracted (not a permanent, direct employee of JJP.) Thus, Pat would deliver work when he gets paid.

    I agree, Jack does not have to open his books to anyone (and it's silly 'Freeplaygames' to keep repeating your request/demand). If it bothers someone enough like it did me then they should just wait to buy a game when a distributor has the game in hand (that's what I'll do if anything.) I just know the basic stats on how many new startups go bankrupt before ever reaching profitability and given the significant challenges and delays I've witnessed ... well, it made me nervous.

    11
    #223 5 years ago

    Freeplaygames no offense but....you joined 2 weeks ago on Pinside. Your only purpose seems to be to incite panic in JJP as a company. Jack has publicly stated all is well. Those who have their WOZ are happy, those waiting have options. You seem to be just adding fuel to the flames and it's really unnecessary. Pinball is a fun hobby and realistically very few people in the world have the financial means to enjoy it. The more companies we have producing games the more people can enjoy the hobby and the better the games can and will become. I have no horse in the race I can't afford stern or jjp games but I enjoy seeing the unique creations of each company and appreciate the hard work and dedication each puts into it's games. It is far harder than I think most people realize. If you don't like Javk or JJP so be it, act like an adult and keep it to yourself. Keep Pinside positive, focus on games and companies you do enjoy and appreciate the fun things in life a bit more. As far as I'm concerned good luck to all pinball companies and please keep making these great games for our enjoyment.
    -Tommy

    #224 5 years ago

    I thought the common pinside pastime was to incite panic and bitter rivalries...

    #225 5 years ago
    Quoted from SilverBallz:

    is that really how you talk to people on a public forum? the more you speak, the less likely I am to ever order another game from you.
    and is your time really best spent bickering and threatening lawsuits? until everyone has their games, i would say not.

    Sadly, I have to agree with this statement. There have been plenty of posts in the past saying similar things, and how Jack would simply be better off not posting at all since he always seems to make things worse rather than better, but apparently he disagrees with those statements.

    #226 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Sadly, I have to agree with this statement. There have been plenty of posts in the past saying similar things, and how Jack would simply be better off not posting at all since he always seems to make things worse rather than better, but apparently he disagrees with those statements.

    I happen to disagree with every statement unless I agree with it.

    #227 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Many people have received their games including myself. J

    And many people haven't... Including a good friend of mine who I helped convince to buy in the first place and have on more than a couple occasions over the last three years helped convince to stay in despite his anger at all the missed promises. I know WoZ will be perfect for his large family of kids and grandkids who are mostly female. He doesn't follow the forums at all and I think he would have pulled out already if he knew that new money was trumping old money. To me that is a sign of something wrong financially more importantly it is a slap in the face to the people who paid up front to get this company up and running.

    #228 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinballsmith:

    I happen to disagree with every statement unless I agree with it.

    I agree.

    TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.
    #230 5 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    where is the pinball company YOU built?

    Not that it matters since all three of these companies are now out of the pinball biz and one simply no longer exists; Bally, I was in on the initial NYSE offering of BLY when AMEX BALY moved up to the big board. Also participated in the IPO of PARK which was a Bally subsidiary. My money helped build Bally's pinball business.

    Then we have Seeburg Industries (SEEBA) which I bougght to help Williams build and grow their pinball biz. The company was renamed XCOR International and changed ticker to XCORA.

    And then we have D. Gottlieb & Co. As soon as Columbia Pictures bought Gottlieb, I bought their stock, I forget that ticker symbol. Although I'd like to think that my investment helped build their pinball biz. as they needed help with the Solid State transition; all I can picture is the M*A*C*H*3 defective, returned games (sit down and upright cabinets) piled to the ceiling along one wall of the 165 West Lake Street plant. Coca Cola buying Columbia made things even worse.

    #231 5 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    What can I do to get this stupid thread closed down?

    Have her remove those hands and your troubles are gone.

    #232 5 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    What can I do to get this stupid thread closed down?

    That will probably do it. Where can I find the next thread about this topic when it gets posted again?

    #233 5 years ago
    Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

    well, it made me nervous.

    Sounds like you made the right decision in getting out then, which everyone else has the option to do.

    -1
    #234 5 years ago

    Look, can we all just step away from this thread now? A bunch of people on the internet trying to figure the financials of a private company is inane, no? The financials are fine, don't let one website occurrence start a war.

    And can we all stop acting like some of us are more qualified than others to chime in on stuff. Jeez. It's not like time on pinside makes one smarter / more informed. With the amount of mis-information and speculation on this site, I'd say those who spend too much time here (myself included) are more likely to think and act irrationally.

    There's a big world of much more important stuff going on. If you actually engage with the real world, the wait for a pinball machine is a lot easier, trust me.

    #235 5 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    There's a big world of much more important stuff going on.

    ...and I'd wish you'd get to it...

    #236 5 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    ,,,and I'd wish you'd get to it...

    I think we all have lost track of what sunlight feels like.

    #237 5 years ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Time will tell all................The real question in my opinion is not whether Jack runs out of money, but how much longer is he going to want to deal with us and this industry. Let's be honest, I think it is safe to say, things didn't turn out the way he thought it would. With remakes coming out, there will be pressure on demand and margins..........Not too mention direct competition from the same people that supplied you your parts.

    I think/hope the honeymoon on remakes will be short lived and would be limited to a pretty short list of games. That is unless the price comes down under $5k. Hobbyists should IMO think strategically on where they want their money to go. Owning a NIB condition classic is pretty cool, but does little to keep the hobby going forward. Personally I don't want repro'd classics at the expense of losing development of new games. . And yes I'm currently in on an MMr. I think MMr, CC, MB, maybe one or two others can be absorbed. Beyond that will cause problems for 1 or all 3.

    #238 5 years ago

    Have you guys ever seen the ramp on Godzilla ? It's crazy , it is all just one huge ramp and its green .

    #239 5 years ago

    I possess a woz L.And. have not I ever had problems, does JJP continue to adjourn-improve software, is he planning new pinball, has "assumed" Pat Lower, thing we want more?'? let's play to flipper and allow to work JJP!!!! who doesn't believe in him enough that doesn't buy his/her games, but finish defaming the people!!!!

    JJP continues so and not to become angry!!! the people are jealous!!!!

    #240 5 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    The financials are fine, don't let one website occurrence start a war.

    I agree that nobody here knows (except for Jack) but that's exactly why your statement above is as ridiculous as anyone else's. How do you know their financials are fine? You don't.

    #241 5 years ago
    Quoted from devlman:

    I think the next logical step for PL is a RS/FH hybrid game with three giant plastic heads. It'll be like the Shick/GIllette "add a razor" wars--let's see how many we can get on there. There's a challenge, widebody or no.

    I think you're onto something here. A fully animitronic 3 Stooges pinball with Larry, Curly and Moe's heads on the playfield. Solenoid-mounted fingers to poke in eyes

    #242 5 years ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Have her remove those hands and your troubles are gone.

    What, and have an earthquake start? Are you kidding?

    #243 5 years ago

    bth_stooges.jpgbth_stooges.jpg

    #244 5 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    I think you're onto something here. A fully animitronic 3 Stooges pinball with Larry, Curly and Moe's heads on the playfield. Solenoid-mounted fingers to poke in eyes

    OK, where do I send my money?

    -3
    #245 5 years ago

    boobs n stooges, nice combo. i haven't read everything to give me an answer, maybe someone can fill me in.

    does jjp still have investors onboard?
    ,

    #246 5 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    What can I do to get this stupid thread closed down?

    just because you don't want to read it anymore, doesn't mean you should try to close it down. Just don't click on it again.

    Jack has yet to directly answer the question. Is it our business ... probably not, but then he shouldn't have given that ambiguous answer to begin with.

    #247 5 years ago

    Its not all about inciting a riot but also about being cautious. Look, ideally all is well and this is a joke of a thread. But timing of deliveries has created fair room for some questions as well as the official responses. Fair dialogue makes sense.
    Lets take the worst case. If there was trouble like the company that folded leaving every WOZ owner in Australia holding the bag. Imagine how every guy on the Aussie forum felt that said all is well until the end. That's not Jacks issue but is an example of a long time Co. going under on folks.
    If that scenario happened I would love to see what every guy who wrote " shut up" had to say.
    At the same time crazy false scenarios are not fair either.
    Questions and answers are checks and balances and should be able to be discussed for everyone's benefit.

    #248 5 years ago
    Quoted from SilverBallz:

    just because you don't want to read it anymore, doesn't mean you should try to close it down. Just don't click on it again.
    Jack has yet to directly answer the question. Is it our business ... probably not, but then he shouldn't have given that ambiguous answer to begin with.

    maybe ted could be a mod some day? sure would be a great place..every thread loaded with gifs with zero substance and no spirited dialogue

    jjp publicly announced investors were coming on board a while ago. now there are doubts, why not publicly address this?

    #249 5 years ago
    Quoted from vex:

    maybe ted could be a mod some day?

    Yes, I'd do a LOT of pruning. (Don't laugh...it may happen)
    ...and insulting clowns like you would be the first to go...
    ..ya see, there are plenty of us on here that don't like arguing about the same crap day after day...

    #250 5 years ago
    Quoted from vex:

    maybe ted could be a mod some day? sure would be a great place..every thread loaded with gifs with zero substance and no spirited dialogue

    As long as he posts stuff similar to "Miss Basketballs" like he did at 16:20 GMT on March 16, 2014, he gets my vote for moderator.

    Alas, he has to be on Double Secret Probation for one year and not be allowed to close threads during that time.

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