(Topic ID: 83994)

JJP's investment opportunity fall through?


By Part_3

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by blondetall
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    18
    #101 5 years ago

    There's a difference between asking legitimate questions, and jumping to conclusions and spreading unfounded rumors. Just because some information was removed from the web site does not mean the company has lost investors or is in financial trouble. That kind of speculation seems inappropriate and mean-spirited.

    Perhaps Jack would be more willing to share more details on things if some in the community didn't try to spin everything he says into something bad?

    The same thing goes for the "controversy" regarding transferable warranties. JJP has every right to not want to support or encourage unauthorized distributors of his products. This is something almost every other manufacturer does, but when JJP does it, somehow it's horribly wrong? And as usual, the people complaining the most about stuff like this aren't even customers.

    We are all pinball enthusiasts. Even if you aren't a fan of the WOZ theme, it doesn't make sense to be so hateful towards a company that is only trying to give people more choices and products. Can we give this guy a break? He has managed to produce the most advanced pinball machine to date. This is no small feat. The process hasn't been perfect but they are delivering games, which is more than can be said for a half-dozen other companies who have taken pre-orders.

    #102 5 years ago

    I would also put roadshow in there as well! Was at the pinball hall of fame last week, roadshow kept my interest and no I couldnt really here the music maybe this was a good thing???

    #103 5 years ago

    Wish I had the money to even pre order a WOZ or Hobbit. Consider yourself lucky if you can even do that and don't complain about a new company making awesome pins.

    #104 5 years ago
    Quoted from graystarsfan1:

    Wish I had the money to even pre order a WOZ or Hobbit. Consider yourself lucky if you can even do that and don't complain about a new company making awesome pins.

    +1000

    #105 5 years ago

    Seriously, Jack, you are your own worst enemy in these discussions... Please hire a professional for PR stuff, or just stick to official channels... You just create ambiguity, anxiety and chaos. You're right about not needing to share the details of your internal finances - please stick to that!

    Wishing JJP great success...

    #106 5 years ago

    I hope that Jack succeeds, but his track record of doing what he says isn't exactly stellar. I know it can't be easy. Furthermore, how vague of a statement is "the press release speaks for its self".

    Does he mean the one where her announced PL joining his team or his original one announcing he is starting a pinball company?! That statement certainly doesn't relate exactly to any statement regarding his investors. To me seemed like an easy way to dodge the question and say.. No no I wasn't talking about my investors.. I was talking about the fact I'm going to start a pinball co.

    I agree we all should be happy he is building new games, but his evasiveness and deceptive statements constantly don't exactly inspire confidence he speaks truth.

    Ah crap... How did I get sucked into this conversation!?! I feel dirty now!!

    #107 5 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    No one actually cares about some bankers, as long as JJP is shipping games and pinball is happening everything is good.

    Good Grief! Wrong.
    People do care because its the difference in knowing money sent to you is paying for the future game or sales from 3 years ago. Its a big deal. Yes we should not drag you through the mud but the timeline that's occurred has created the question.
    These kind of answers fuel the fire.

    #108 5 years ago

    To be fair he was badly quoting me, those are my words, not his.

    13
    #109 5 years ago

    Why is it the people that don't own a Woz, don't want one always bitch and complain the most?

    If you are worried about Hobbit ever being built then wait until it's done or not. Enough said.

    There isn't a shred of new info on here. Just another thread to pile on Jack and JJP. It's one thing to discuss issues it's another to pump out the same line of BS over and over again. Grow the F up

    I, like many of you have lived through 3 yrs of this, much of the negatives are Jack's own making. Live and learn, you guys want to call him and/or imply he's a pos over and over? Knock yourself out if it makes you feel better. Nobody cares.

    Vote with your wallets. You same guys will be lining up to buy the next pin, Stern or JJP, that won't ever change!

    #110 5 years ago
    Quoted from FreeplayGames:

    and many people are STILL waiting for their order. Apparently the replacement Australia distro is among them.

    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    We are building games for him next month and he is fine to wait for them.

    Ughh. I guess that means more delays for the ECLE pre-orders.

    #111 5 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Ughh. I guess that means more delays for the ECLE orders.

    Is that part of the 1000 Le's or after. They should "wait" until after 1k are out

    #112 5 years ago

    I think Jersey Jack feels like this every time he ventures over to pinside and sees threads like this

    -1
    #113 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    There's a difference between asking legitimate questions, and jumping to conclusions and spreading unfounded rumors. Just because some information was removed from the web site does not mean the company has lost investors or is in financial trouble. That kind of speculation seems inappropriate and mean-spirited.
    Perhaps Jack would be more willing to share more details on things if some in the community didn't try to spin everything he says into something bad?
    The same thing goes for the "controversy" regarding transferable warranties. JJP has every right to not want to support or encourage unauthorized distributors of his products. This is something almost every other manufacturer does, but when JJP does it, somehow it's horribly wrong? And as usual, the people complaining the most about stuff like this aren't even customers.
    We are all pinball enthusiasts. Even if you aren't a fan of the WOZ theme, it doesn't make sense to be so hateful towards a company that is only trying to give people more choices and products. Can we give this guy a break? He has managed to produce the most advanced pinball machine to date. This is no small feat. The process hasn't been perfect but they are delivering games, which is more than can be said for a half-dozen other companies who have taken pre-orders.

    Stern has had to hear the same BS for years. people complain about license theme unfinished code and many more little things Jack needs to suck it up. As for did he need the money Stern took money in the crash of 2007 Jack took money when pinball is bigger then it has been in years so it is fare to say yes he needed the money. Jack also has yet to sell a game with out prepayment that says something as well.

    #114 5 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Is that part of the 1000 Le's or after. They should "wait" until after 1k are out

    I believe he is referring to the 250 or so games that Wayno bought about 6 months ago.

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-wizard-of-oz-oz-the-land-downunder-aule

    #115 5 years ago
    Quoted from ek77:

    Stern has had to hear the same BS for years. people complain about license theme unfinished code and many more little things Jack needs to suck it up. As for did he need the money Stern took money in the crash of 2007 Jack took money when pinball is bigger then it has been in years so it is fare to say yes he needed the money. Jack also has yet to sell a game with out prepayment that says something as well.

    Not sure why I'm even replying to this but hey, Stern gets a big deposit from overseas distros, per Stern himself, when asked to explain why he picks the themes he does and the fan layouts with 2 ramps and a spinner.

    So it's all "fare". Maybe we can get the silent treatment from Jack too. Like Gary does. Keep it up

    #116 5 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    I believe he is referring to the 250 or so games that Wayno bought about 6 months ago.
    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-wizard-of-oz-oz-the-land-downunder-aule

    If it was 6 months ago then Wayno needs to wait.

    #117 5 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Not sure why I'm even replying to this but hey, Stern gets a big deposit from overseas distros, per Stern himself, when asked to explain why he picks the themes he does and the fan layouts with 2 ramps and a spinner.
    So it's all "fare". Maybe we can get the silent treatment from Jack too. Like Gary does. Keep it up

    A deposit from a distributor is far different then full payment from a collector

    #118 5 years ago
    Quoted from Hjbondar:

    Give JJ a break. I think he's proven he is Elon Musk and not John Delorean!

    I've spent the last week at the SpaceX factory and would beg to differ with this...

    #119 5 years ago
    Quoted from ek77:

    A deposit from a distributor is far different then full payment from a collector

    Uhhhh yeah, 300k up front from one customer is certainly far different, and its UP FRONT…...

    -8
    #120 5 years ago

    I'm so glad I got rid of my game. Jack makes me want to puke every time he opens his mouth.

    Post edited by moderator: Warning - please do notnattack other pinsiders for offfering their opionion. You comment is out of line towards ANY pinsider

    #121 5 years ago

    in before the lock !

    in_before_the_lock_gif.gif
    #122 5 years ago

    From Kapper 8 months ago, and still not a Jack fan

    "I've read most of the WOZ threads over the past few years so I thought that I would share my experience with the game. First of all, I'm not a Jack fan.......at all. I ordered my game like many of you in June of 2011 before the first price increase. I was led to believe when I bought the game I would receive my game in line with the payment schedule, close to the "as production begins" final payment. That was around November of 2011. When June 2012 rolled around, I had enough. Jack was either full of crap regarding shipping dates and was afraid of the fallout or is a complete and utter idiot. I don't think Jack is an idiot so you can draw your own conclusion.

    I continued to watch the process from a distance and truthfully was glad that I was out. As games recently started to ship I was invited to try a friends game for an evening. I thought the game was fantastic so I decided to find a game to buy. I didn't care for a second that I paid a premium. I'm not motivated by financial gain or loss from any of my pinball activities. Last week that game was delivered.

    This game has found a home next to a ACDC LE and a High End AFM.

    I am a pinball fan. Not a Stern fan, not a Williams fan, not a Jersey Jack fan. Just a pinball fan.

    My point of writing my experience is to share my experience.

    Either I'm the luckiest guy in the world who received a game with no problems out of the box or most of the crap people are posting about the game in a home use environment (as how mine is being used) is simply untrue.

    Flippers - the flippers are great. The flippers can make every shot with ease. They feel strong.

    Speed - slow is not the verb I would use to describe the speed of the game. It's fast and fun.

    Fuses - none blown on my game

    Over the past week, I've played at least 100 games. My game shipped with code 1.12 and yesterday I updated the software to 1.14. The updating process was very easy and it worked perfectly.

    The game is very challenging. The code is great. Is it complete - nope? Is Jack eating crow saying he would never ship an unfinished game, yes. The code as it plays today is fantastic.

    To the Pinside members who continue to give unfair remarks to the game, do everyone a favor. Go play the game. I think you will enjoy it. There is nothing to gain by giving untrue commentary about the game.

    Again - not a Jack fan but the truth is what the truth is.

    Good luck to those who continue to wait. I feel your pain.

    I'm happy to answer any question anyone may have with complete honesty. Fire away."

    #123 5 years ago

    Nevermind, I'm tired of the topic, moving on with my day.

    Post edited by Aurich: Pointless post removed.

    #124 5 years ago

    Jack if I were you I would get off of the boards. You usually add flame to the fire with your responses.

    Hire a good PR guy to promote you. Self promotion fail. IMO

    #126 5 years ago

    There's not much more you can say about this thread.

    #127 5 years ago
    Quoted from Shoot_Again:

    Jack if I were you I would get off of the boards. You usually add flame to the fire with your responses.
    Hire a good PR guy to promote you. Self promotion fail. IMO

    He cant control himself even on the JJP board, this guy comments that since Pats new game is not a widebody JJP should charge less and look what he gets:

    -----
    On Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:33:39 PM UTC-4, FlippinFuntastic wrote:
    > Fine, but then charge less for the game.

    Jersey Jack: Maybe your boss should start to pay you less too.

    #128 5 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    From Kapper 8 months ago, and still not a Jack fan
    "I've read most of the WOZ threads over the past few years so I thought that I would share my experience with the game. First of all, I'm not a Jack fan.......at all. I ordered my game like many of you in June of 2011 before the first price increase. I was led to believe when I bought the game I would receive my game in line with the payment schedule, close to the "as production begins" final payment. That was around November of 2011. When June 2012 rolled around, I had enough. Jack was either full of crap regarding shipping dates and was afraid of the fallout or is a complete and utter idiot. I don't think Jack is an idiot so you can draw your own conclusion.
    I continued to watch the process from a distance and truthfully was glad that I was out. As games recently started to ship I was invited to try a friends game for an evening. I thought the game was fantastic so I decided to find a game to buy. I didn't care for a second that I paid a premium. I'm not motivated by financial gain or loss from any of my pinball activities. Last week that game was delivered.
    This game has found a home next to a ACDC LE and a High End AFM.
    I am a pinball fan. Not a Stern fan, not a Williams fan, not a Jersey Jack fan. Just a pinball fan.
    My point of writing my experience is to share my experience.
    Either I'm the luckiest guy in the world who received a game with no problems out of the box or most of the crap people are posting about the game in a home use environment (as how mine is being used) is simply untrue.
    Flippers - the flippers are great. The flippers can make every shot with ease. They feel strong.
    Speed - slow is not the verb I would use to describe the speed of the game. It's fast and fun.
    Fuses - none blown on my game
    Over the past week, I've played at least 100 games. My game shipped with code 1.12 and yesterday I updated the software to 1.14. The updating process was very easy and it worked perfectly.
    The game is very challenging. The code is great. Is it complete - nope? Is Jack eating crow saying he would never ship an unfinished game, yes. The code as it plays today is fantastic.
    To the Pinside members who continue to give unfair remarks to the game, do everyone a favor. Go play the game. I think you will enjoy it. There is nothing to gain by giving untrue commentary about the game.
    Again - not a Jack fan but the truth is what the truth is.
    Good luck to those who continue to wait. I feel your pain.
    I'm happy to answer any question anyone may have with complete honesty. Fire away."

    I've been completely consistent. I sold the game for one reason. I didn't like the man who built it. I don't like the way he treats his customers. It was a bad reminder sitting in front of me every day.

    #129 5 years ago
    Quoted from ek77:

    Stern has had to hear the same BS for years. people complain about license theme unfinished code and many more little things Jack needs to suck it up.

    Apples and oranges. Stern has had 30+ years to get their act together and they still haven't. They still have orphaned games; they still crank out games with unfinished code and leave their customers hanging. As it stands now, WOZ's code is more complete than half the Stern games made in the last decade.

    If history is taught us anything, it's that mass-producing a pinball machine is really hard. You have to have a lot of resources and it never seems to be delivered on deadline.

    Nonetheless, JJP has managed to deliver games. They haven't delivered them all, but they've delivered most of them at this point. And the game is really well designed and the code is very solid and playable.

    Haters are going to hate. But the fact is, most of the haters do not have any legitimate gripes. Which pretty-much indicates how threatened they are by JJP's new pinball platform. It really does kick Stern's ass technologically, so all they can do is gripe about superfluous things that Jack says.

    And ironically, all the Stern fans, who defend them unconditionally, are doing themselves a disservice. If Stern ever really starts to innovate, it won't be because of you guys. It'll be because JJP has upped the bar, otherwise they'd still be cranking out substandard stuff to their built-in fanbase that continues to buy incomplete products.

    You're welcome.

    You guys like Steve Ritchie games?

    You're welcome. Thank Jack! Gary would never have re-hired Steve if Jack didn't start assembling his own dream team.

    #130 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    As it stands now, WOZ's code is more complete than half the Stern games made in the last decade.

    Name them.

    #131 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    You're welcome. Thank Jack! Gary would never have re-hired Steve if Jack didn't start assembling his own dream team.

    Stern would also not have an MSRP of $8,500.00 if it weren't for Jack.

    Thanks Jack!

    #132 5 years ago
    Quoted from jarjarisgod:

    There's not much more you can say about this thread.

    Agreed

    -3
    #133 5 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    The Press Release was ambiguous.

    Ambiguous - Merriam-Webster Online

    able to be understood in more than one way : having more than one possible meaning. : not expressed or understood clearly ...

    #134 5 years ago

    Could it maybe be interpreted as being true-ish?

    #135 5 years ago
    Quoted from MrDo:

    Stern would also not have an MSRP of $8,500.00 if it weren't for Jack.
    Thanks Jack!

    you're welcome suckers! i guess we are the enablers, can't blame companies for getting greedy when the money piles in like it has been. i would love to be in the position to sheer the suckers myself and keep pushing up prices while cheapening on the components. all the while having people bending over and taking it repeatedly saying thank-you in the process!

    #136 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    Haters are going to hate. But the fact is, most of the haters do not have any legitimate gripes. Which pretty-much indicates how threatened they are by JJP's new pinball platform. It really does kick Stern's ass technologically, so all they can do is gripe about superfluous things that Jack says.

    It's really true, why threatened though? I love my Sterns, Ballys and new JJP…..

    There must be some pre JJP stuff on top of the last 3 yrs. that has brought Jack such hatred. Doesn't really matter because Gary steps on his d*ck all the time and at the end of the day, you don't play Gary, Jack or Rick, you play the pinball machine, and what we know is that if its good, we are going to buy it….

    #137 5 years ago
    Quoted from MrDo:

    Stern would also not have an MSRP of $8,500.00 if it weren't for Jack.
    Thanks Jack!

    Really, I guess ignorance is bliss

    #138 5 years ago
    Quoted from JoeJet:

    He cant control himself even on the JJP board, this guy comments that since Pats new game is not a widebody JJP should charge less and look what he gets:
    -----
    On Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:33:39 PM UTC-4, FlippinFuntastic wrote:
    > Fine, but then charge less for the game.
    Jersey Jack: Maybe your boss should start to pay you less too.

    Oh come on Suggesting the game should be cheaper solely because it's not wide body is a really dumb suggestion. Anyone that is that dense enough to make such a suggestion probably should be paid less. So I support JerseyJacks response

    #139 5 years ago
    Quoted from vex:

    you're welcome suckers! i guess we are the enablers, can't blame companies for getting greedy when the money piles in like it has been. i would love to be in the position to sheer the suckers myself and keep pushing up prices while cheapening on the components. all the while having people bending over and taking it repeatedly saying thank-you in the process!

    How did that joke go; something about "Jack could fart in an elevator and someone would say thanks" or something?

    #140 5 years ago

    Ice if you show this kind of devotion to your financial clients I want in.

    #141 5 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Ice if you show this kind of devotion to your financial clients I want in.

    Come join me Rommy! You are already in the insurance business, let's add some legal, tax and financial But hey, I have hammered Jack too.

    Yep, somebody said that's what Lloyd would say about Jack and farting in an elevator, pretty funny

    #142 5 years ago

    It may be better to say that WOZ code is far deeper than all Stern games expect for maybe LOTR and TSPP which code was done by Keith Johnson I sold a LOTR to get my WOZ and after 2.0 WOZ may very we be deeper in part because there's much more to do across the entire playfield.

    Sure code for some Stern games are complete but nearly all don't have nearly as deep of a ruleset WOZ.

    #143 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    It may be better to say that WOZ code is far deeper than all Stern games expect for maybe LOTR and TSPP. I sold a LOTR to get my WOZ and after 2.0 WOZ may very we be deeper in part because there's much more to do across the entire playfield.
    Sure code for some Stern games are complete but nearly all don't have nearly as deep of a ruleset as WOZ.

    Maybe Keith should weigh in since he did LOTR and TSPP, the two deepest coded pins. And I'd throw WPT in the mix, yes that was Keith too.

    #144 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    It may be better to say that WOZ code is far deeper than all Stern games expect for maybe LOTR and TSPP. I sold a LOTR to get my WOZ and after 2.0 WOZ may very we be deeper in part because there's much more to do across the entire playfield.
    Sure code for some Stern games are complete but nearly all don't have nearly as deep of a ruleset as WOZ.

    I am not so sure. It depends on how you define depth. If you define it by the amount of stuff to do, I would argue that spiderman, ripleys, and xmen the latest code is just as deep as current woz code.

    #145 5 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    I am not so sure. It depends on how you define depth. If you define it by the amount of stuff to do, I would argue that spiderman, ripleys, and xmen the latest code is just as deep as current woz code.

    I don't know about Xmen and Ripley's, since I don't have them, but SM, I love it, as deep, don't think so compared to those other three that we both have. Wpt is deeper than SM.

    #146 5 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    I am not so sure. It depends on how you define depth. If you define it by the amount of stuff to do, I would argue that spiderman, ripleys, and xmen the latest code is just as deep as current woz code.

    I think the objective based multiballs and the way Keith codes them is what makes games like LOTR and WOZ some of the deepest games out there. While I like the multiball modes in my ACDC they just don't seem as fun when you are only hitting shots for points rather than to progress through the multiple objectives of a multiball mode in a Keith game.

    10
    #147 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Sure code for some Stern games are complete but nearly all don't have nearly as deep of a ruleset WOZ.

    You don't need deep for every game - you just need fun.

    AFM is pretty shallow, but it's probably the most fun of any game.

    -4
    #148 5 years ago

    Back on track guys - has JJP lost it's investor?

    Jack, Yes or no?

    #149 5 years ago

    If sterns built a wide body what would it cost?

    -1
    #150 5 years ago
    Quoted from dannunz:

    If sterns built a wide body what would it cost?

    $5495.00 FCA Melrose Park, Illinois

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