Well I still think it's commendable that JJP do all this testing to ensure long-term reliability and it's really the only way you can do it when trying to innovate to this level. Anyone buying this game will get something solid.

But here we see the downside of this approach and the reason why other companies tend to be a bit more conservative. Also a lesson is to dial back a bit on all the interviews and fanfare celebrations before production is under way.

In any case, we love the fresh energy Eric and happy there's a company still taking risks like this. You can't have it both ways. This is a definite bummer for sure and doesn't look good (especially an opening trunk which has been done well lately by 2 competitors one of them shooting the ball across the length of the entire playfield) but solder on - it's still a great game and love JJP!

Good idea. Another reason is that if the disks are now on the LCD, then players will be staring at two different looking versions of the disk which is a bit strange don't you think?

image (resized).jpeg

Also we won't forever be reminded about what was cut out by looking at it! Maelstroms spin just like the disk so I consider this a fantastic idea!!!!!!

Reliability is not an added feature- it was assumed when buyers put deposits down so let's let people be a bit disappointed. You know sometimes people are dissapointed because they are just dissapointed in something that is disappointing not because we're "pinsiders". I'm sure JJP is dissapointed too.

How many moving toys on this machine were there compared to now? (Let's give original spinning disk a weight of 3 and now 1). Ship=1, trunk from 1 to 0, anything else?

Very cool tech - free form displays! But years away as mentioned in the video

Yes exactly!!

Moreover, it won't even be a replica but look totally different! I think terrible to see two versions of the same thing at the same time so there has to be another way. Last minute hackorama doesn't cut it for JJP, the leader in boutique pinball.

Complex rings side... thinking more about the chest...

What alternate reality am I living in that JJP cannot close a chest. AS does it and Houdini does it and JJP cannot do it? The company that made WOZ?

Somethings just really off here - this is very unlike the JJP I love. This is a big clue that this is cost related. Not willing to make it right because of money/time constraints so I don't buy the 'we can't do it so pulled the plug' line.

#closethechest

OK started a poll - please vote:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll#post-4340983

JJP needs our support!

JJP has proposed a cut and run solution: replace the most complex piece of hardware with a simple motor. Reasons given is that original design at high speeds is unreliable and too loud and a simple motor will be reliable and quieter. Since they are willing to make this very drastic move at any expense to their reputation, I'm assuming two things for now:

1. We're not getting the three disks spinning at high rate as originally proposed.

2. Although looking a bit suspicious right now, im still taking their word that the reason it's being cut is THAT IT DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY AT HIGH SPEED AND IS TOO LOUD.

Many good alternative solutions have been proposed. Here is a poll:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll

For me the obvious solution is that the hardware remain exactly as is EXCEPT that it's initial intended purpose be modified (just moving slowly now as a cool toy to show progress on lining up interlocking rings). Here are reasons why:

1. The device has been tested at high speed for a long time. So if it operated only at low speeds now, it will probably be the most reliable device ever made (if high speed was the main reliability issue).

2. Yes, we give up the fact that the rings put action on the ball but I'm OK with that. But remember that often not all 3 rings were rotating. In fact, when spinning fast one could not see much of anything and they weren't spinning that fast in the movie anyway. What was cool was SEEING the 3 rings. It's a cool piece of hardware that just looks cool! So, like most of us who voted, it's not a downgrade to have this piece of hardware stay as is just moving slowly, rings moving around slowly while playing.

3. What we gain is that this cool piece of hardware can now be tied even more into gameplay! Remember that each disk can be moved to any orientation by software and the game always knows the orientation of each disk. This allows for making shots that turn the discs on the playfield and the goal is to reach certain configurations for jackpots or finishing modes etc. certain shots could change directions of rings or pops could randomly change directions etc. Making lit shots turns a ring to left or right and you make shots to get rings aligned as you need - exactly like the puzzle theme of movie! In my view this is even better than having just spin a high speed where you can't see anything and does not add much to gameplay (except action on the ball).

4. JJP is obviously in rush mode now and are no longer willing to wait it out. This proposal of using the original hardware just at very slow speeds is best here. No changes needed at all - leave everything exactly as is - only code has to change. In the worst case ship the game with limited integrations as described in 3. and update code later - we will understand.

5. Quiet as a mouse if each ring only moving a bit here and there one or a few positions at a time.

It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water here - the hardware is very cool even if not spinning at high speed. I have actually come to think it's better slower - to have it more integrated into gameplay, always visible because not blurred away and closer to movie movement, and now reliable and silent.

If the real reasons for completely cutting this hardware are indeed high speed reliability and it being too loud, then this low-speed original hardware solution checks all boxes and is the obvious way forward. We have voted on it as well (poll above) and the majority prefer this over replacing with the single stock motor.

If they don't go with this most obvious compromise then clearly we know that there are other reasons being kept from us and JJP are not being forthright here to their loyal supporters.

If there is anyone who doesn't think this is a good compromise (especially since zero changes to hardware have to be made), please post below and let's hash this out. We are cheering Eric and JJP on here and hope they make the right decisions for this game to reach its greatest potential!

Whatever they do now they cannot lower the price. Doing that is a straight admission of failure and a sign that they are not a boutique company. Imagine Ferarri admitting they couldn't fix some feature so they cut it and then lowered the price of a car. What would that say about them. JJP is the Ferarri of pinball and this is the worst move they could make.

We don't want a discount for gods sake - we want to pay a premium for a premium product. Damn it would be 100x less controversy if they would have just asked for $500 MORE! What a @&&$show.

Yes but this is missing the point.

The point is that it's TOO OBVIOUS NOW that the SURROUNDING playfield art and the SIZE of the disc itself WOULD HAVE NEVER been designed like that by Eric or anyone else IN THE FIRST PLACE and Eric would be the first to admit it if he could.

(sorry, caps used not to shout it out but just for mild emphasis)

Anyone have a link to yesterday's JJP video? All I see is live stream from 2 hours ago.

Thanks for the link - that was the video afterall - seemed like a pinball funeral and I couldn't even finish watching it.

It is a sad day indeed as the Ferrari of pinball is no longer that after this massive cut and dash fiasco - like someone took the reins and is purposefully trying to take down the company. So little respect for the simple fact that you can't fundamentally expect to sell a high-end products under these circumstances. I think the hit to their reputation will be greater than the 6 extra months it might have taken to get this right and whoever was behind this decision will have to live with that. Can't even close a trunk I mean it's embarrassing. Very poor collection of decisions made here especially as there were much simpler solutions available like:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll

I'm so done with all this - Pinball is supposed to be fun and this is just depressing. I'll check in again when Toy Story is revealed and hopefully the lessons learned from this cosmic flop will help. What a shame. Anyway, so sorry for how this all turned out and wish everyone the best. I'm outy here and going to enjoy some of the many other great ways to enjoy this hobby. I'll start off with a game of WOZ - my son loves that game. Bye.