(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production

By Hogbog

1 year ago

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  • 345 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by Yelobird
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Topic index (key posts)

6 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #593 The new artwork in high-res Posted by pinball_keefer (1 year ago)

Post #2454 Link to livestream of play on one of the first machines off the line Posted by solarvalue (1 year ago)

Post #2464 Picture of first jjPotCs on the line Posted by mountaingamer (1 year ago)

Post #2496 Link to Jack's "shipping" cartwheel for jjPotC. Posted by KingBW (1 year ago)

Post #2561 Comparison of prototype and final under playfields Posted by Join_The_Cirqus (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#81 1 year ago

Too much, I'm Out! These two mechs sold me on buying an LE of an already expensive game, and now they are gone. Would never have considered buying POTC without these features. Both were replaced with something much less desireable, so I will be playing a lot on location. Maiden is getting my money.

PS - wonder why a transparent double disk moving around a fixed center core wouldn't work? That would keep proportions better while adding some chaos. Two disks can't be that hard and would be way cooler.

#214 1 year ago

In 1969, the US put a man on the moon. JJP should be able to engineer a working spinning disc assembly in 2018. Not that they have to, but because it's a challenge to be conquered. Because the game needs them. Fix that and JJPOTC might be more sophisticated than landing the first Apollo. #nevergiveupon3spinningdiscsjjppotc

#439 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

99% backing out.

I believe most of the dropouts will stay out. This is one of the most expensive games ever offered (aside from BM66SLE). People want their game to be complete. If remaining gameplay matches the price, people will reconsider. Nothing wrong with reevaluating. I believe JJP will revisit the issue before production and will propose a different solution that is more agreeable. One that is more of a win-win, whereas proposed pizza spinner is lose-lose.

#577 1 year ago

Some have questioned:

Why did people amp up their rhetoric in JJPOTC threads after learning about the proposed pizza spinner? Why did so many people come out with alternate spinner concepts? Why did people announce they were cancelling orders and almost 200 people to date have threatened to not buy a POTC? The answer to those questions is mostly the same - because people care. People want POTC pinball to succeed and for POTC to be the kind of pin they want to own. We could have said," it suks, pass, I'll see how Houdini, ACNC, Maiden or Monster Bash play". Instead, we choose to stand and fight.

Considering how much pins sell for, potential buyers of a nib game expect something fantastic. And this is where JJPPOTC scratched the itch. It included so much that I was persuaded to buy one. Mind you, reaching this conclusion was an exercise in mental gymnastics. When I first heard prices, I said no way would I spend $9k for an LE pinball or any pinball. As I watched gameplay video by JJP crew, listened to Keith explain rules and I heard Eric's passion, I shifted to wanting one. This gave way to my planning how to pay for one and finally to being ready to buy one when it becomes available. That shift in consciousness signals I am now 100% emotionally invested in buying a POTC. Nobody is holding a gun to my head, but I want one.

Then along comes Pizzagate. I do not like the proposed single spinner and neither do many of you. So we do the only thing we can do, threaten to (and act to) cancel orders, complain how bad it is and offer solutions to a problem that has yet to be defined by JJP. The hope is that JJP will hear the feedback and reconsider. Threatened cancellations not only highlight that one less pin will be sold to a potential customer, but they also convey the reason for the lost sale. I interpret the threats to walk and suggestions for fixing the discs as a way to tell JJP, if you change course and adjust your solution, I will still be a customer. However, ignore the warning and suggestions at your peril. JJP will decide what to do, but cause and effect is real.

So there you have it. Eric made announcement Friday night. Pinside blew up Fri night thru Mon. Jack is still out of country. Today is Tuesday and we wait.

#579 1 year ago
Quoted from HOOKED:

Ok so they have say 1000+ playfields with giant holes in them. ...

They haven't run the playfields yet, we only saw the proposed changes to mech and artwork 3 days ago. The design needs to be finalized first.

#582 1 year ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Another option would be to close the hole all together, rejig the art on the playfield. Reduce the price and compete even more with AP's houdini? Just a thought.

Eliminating the spinner altogether, but leaving the artwork and inserts is my second favorite solution. That by itself is not too bad an option. It could refined by adding some lit led's shining through the inserts to convey movement. While I would rather have a state of the art triple spinner, if I can't have that, I'd settle for none. I wouldn't expect JJP to lower offer prices under any scenario and you can expect they will raise them after production ramps up. One truth unites us - agreement that the proposed single spinner is a fail.

#588 1 year ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

A lot of people suspect the playfields are already made. Don't they take some time to cure after finishing? I have not seen any definitive answer from JJP on the question of if they are already made.

Don't think JJP would have run 1000 playfields with a big hole and the new artwork just shown. If they were run, it is more likely that they would still have the big hole but it would have been printed using the original artwork, which is now obsolete. If they switched back to the original 3-circle design, JJP might be able to use the playfields afterall. You are probably talking about a maximum $500k worth of playfields, but much less if they only ran 100 or so. If those need to be destroyed and reprinted, chaulk it up to learning experience (don't order 1000 playfields before finalizing design!).

#764 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

Rather than having gear teeth on each disk, being driven by a gear...why not use serrated belts driving the serrated pivot shaft that drives each spinner, driven by stepper motors? Each spinning disk can still have the opto locating fins on each plastic to collect location data.

Sounds like a problem that could have been solved using an alternate approach. Why wasn't it JJP, Why? Evidently it was going to take some thinking outside the box to fix, yet JJP didn't reach out to any machine shops or buddies to see if they could fix the issue. Have they even explained what the problem was?

#770 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

I have no information as to why, but I can take an educated guess. At the presentation I heard Eric say that the mechanism for the rings was engineered very simple and the best solutions are most often the simple ones, not the complicated. And I agree. And the beancounters agreed, because it was simple and fairly cheap to make, so it fitted the BOM
Except it was probably so simple that it could not withstand the very nature of a pinball machine. And to make it pinball prooof it had to get a lot less cheap. Again, that is what I have made of it and I really cannot see it otherwise. I refuse to believe that the guys at JJP like Eric would not be ABLE to make this work, just not in a feasible way.

But we haven't heard from JJP what the exact problem was, right? Many great theories, I've learned a lot, but what did JJP say the reasons were for making the disc changes? (not the bs reason - it wasn't reliable, but an exact explanation).

#774 1 year ago

So no other video communication from JJP about it since Friday, and then they show the single disc in the game and say it is changed and proceed playing games on it. .. reliability problems with the rings, right? Remind me what that means?

#1014 1 year ago
Quoted from Procrastinator:

I think it’s been mentioned a few times, but if it was originally shown without the triple disc and just the small disc would people still have an issue with it? I Understand the frustration but I don’t think people would’ve had an issue with the disc if they never knew what it originally was. I do think they mishandled this release, but I do like how they field test games before production, so I don’t know the right answer.
When I ordered a DI I remember quite a few people being down on the pin, but it has slowly gained steam. I feel like even with release issues and all, POTC will end up being a solid game with big sales (for jjp). Only time will tell but I hope jjp learns a lesson from this.

Three discs is why I wanted a POTC. At $9k / $10k I saw the game was packed and I was willing to violate every financial principle I cherish to buy a toy. Remember discs were more than a feature, they were a badass assembly with state of the art technology. Without triple discs, the game is still packed, but is way more than I am willing to spend anyways. So yes, dumping the discs equals one less sale for JJP unless you find me a nib POTCLE shipping for $8.5k. In which case I'll take it.

#1108 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Jack must be back in the Country.....

Jack is back ....

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#1207 1 year ago

Might have to buy myself a pirate necklace or some earrings while I await code update on Hobbit to prevent goblin stacking with Smaug mb.

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#1223 1 year ago
Quoted from Ns2973:

Most interesting to me was that Eric was already working on another game.

Does it have 3 concentric discs that spin independently with variable speed and which are bi-directional?

1 week later
#1428 1 year ago

Orange apron decal needs the color adjusted. But first, decal needs to be ditched for a backlit plastic with same images. Key is lighting it from underneath.

1 week later
#1619 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Sky, Let's hope they announce a Willy Wonka, or whatever it is, and then ship it shortly thereafter, a month or two max.

What you wish for makes no sense. POTC may be shipping in August, and it is just now complete for manufacturing to begin. Expect it will be the major game being built at JJP through the end of 2019. Let's say JJP is ready to release and ready to build game #5 on Jan 2020, to fit into this cycle. They should be announcing and revealing that game at Expo 2019, in Oct 2019, if they follow your guidance. Seventeen months of agony waiting for word that the game is Wonka, something you already know. Unfortunately for JJP, that cat is already out of the bag. You shouldn't be expecting to hear anything about JJP#5 at Expo 2018, that is TOO EARLY !!

#1625 1 year ago

The real issue is JJP is moving at dinosaur speed for design and manufacturing, while the pinball industry giant is trotting away. Podcasters and enthusiasts covers pinball broadly and producing one pinball machine every 18 months equals three months of unbridled enthusiasm for your company and its latest product. If a competitor can release two or three or four games they are king.

One one hand, JJP's cycle is not sustainable. How could that model last? On the other hand, with more competitor companies in the pool, it feels like too much product is coming to market. Most are being offered at the high price$ for a toy. Some will fail and some will rise. In the end you can't out-hype hype, and a pinball machine stands on its own merits. JJP's insistence on getting their product right before release, is more important to me than the fact I can't get their titles sooner. When JJP's newest pinball starts at $9k, customers like to feel that their purchase will last.

JJP's cycle is disappointing and frustrating and many have expressed this. I liken it to listenening to C2C. Always enjoy hearing Nate's buttery voice talking pinball. But I only get a few episodes a year, so no sense complaining. POTC looks great and I hope to play one this year. If I like it, I may end up buying one next Summer. It's a snails pace I know, but my wits are not at worlds end, yet.

#1679 1 year ago

^^ pics of apron art imagine if the black and white decal was transferred to a triangular plastic sitting on a cutout in the apron. Further imagine flashers underneath that are triggered during Maelstrom mb. Two ships being sucked in could be on right plastic and be lit with a light tied to gi's and would remain on. Wowza!

On another topic, why can't JJP pay voice impersonators for some additional callouts that represent more characters? Would be ideal to have three each from all 22 characters to inject some much needed humor as well as establish a more direct connection between the player and the game/theme. If POTC is to be the classic pin for all time, this would be a minimum step JJP could take to generate a positive impact on the game's atmosphere and mood. How about it JJP, can you add more character callout impersonations, for the good of POTC?

#1683 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Could be because they wanted and have the talent to create something authentic and New vs recreating a movie we have mostly all seen? Having played it several times and watched every JJP video I am Amazed by the content they created and it fits pirates as well as pinball Perfectly!

But imagine if upon hitting a lit character switch and you heard that character say some movie dialog or an imperator give a custom callout. That would be exciting and fillout the background with something to connect the player to the theme, and which has been absent imo. Now imagine if the character dialog you heard was specifically from that movie's active chapter. And that if you hit a second lit switch, it would register but not overdub new dialog.

So many ways this be implemented by the JJP Programmers and it would be a real win-win from the critics. So why should JJP add more character dialog or impersonator callouts? As a Zen Master, I'll answer - it's another level of deep in the cosmic universe, man.

1 week later
#1808 1 year ago
Quoted from Ns2973:

What if you trade someone for it. That way no new money goes to Disney.
Although the idea of someone telling what I can and cant buy based on an allegation of DV that never even went to court is not something I'd be open to.

It is still bothering me and I can't help thinking chipscott is giving up way too early. Maybe he should try coming back from a pinshow with a POTCCE and ... Guess what daddy won at the pinball tourney? A new JJP family friendly pin. You couldn't expect me to give it back - that would be rude to all the children and the charity! So many little smiling faces. Now help me plug this thing in and we'll start some family time right now.

#1881 1 year ago
Quoted from musketd:

Wonder if hey will be playing production game or still the prototype

Single disc, so it must be production.

#1910 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Liars dice I think was first scene in the at worlds end movie but if was more of a card games call your bluff type thing.

Liar's dice is a game using dice, not cards. See shaker of dice in Squidman's hook.

IMG_0293 (resized).PNGIMG_0294 (resized).PNG

1 week later
#1996 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Wow Joe really lit that game up on the stream! Good for him he was in the Zone! Congrats

Joe is a top player on JJP games. He isn't flashy but he's always steadfast in the hunt.

1 week later
#2071 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Anyone else getting the feeling that POTC hype is rapidly running out of steam?
I’m almost to the point of zero excitement and I really really do want this machine.

It just feels like POTC continues to slog along. But in five weeks or less, complete games start shipping. Find one local to play or attend a nearby big pinball event. But see and play the final product first and if you still really like it, consider picking one up at your favorite distributor. By Dec they should be readily available. I'll bet somewhere along the journey, you'll fall in love, good vibes will be trending upwards and you and others will be excited to play JJPOTC Because the game is legit fun & challenging, not because of hype. True emotions from playing and observing the game will ignite the hype afterburners.

1 week later
#2129 1 year ago

A pinball machine is a major purchase and since JJP's games have a lot stuff in them, they are priced accordingly. So when someone decides they want JJPPOTC and they make a downpayment, they are expecting to keep the game for a long time, let's say ten years. If game is delayed six months, who cares, this is a long term relationship?

If you need the money or you think game is taking a turn for the worse or you doubt the game will be made, those are quality reasons to pull out. But if you are acting from impatience or loss of hype and if you plan to move the money to another pin, then you are a rich man. These are not cabbage patch dolls, where you can want a version one day and then change your mind on a whim.

This is a prime example of why you should wait and play a game before deciding to buy. Granted this is still better than buying it first and then getting distracted by another shiny object. All the streams have solidified my mind that I want a POTC. I am not sure when, but it will happen after I've played one a good bit and when one is a available. I am not considering striking it from my wish list and buying something else. Does someone else offer a comparable pirate themed option? No, this is the only one that fits the bill, so I wait. How could I complain when no money is down?

#2130 1 year ago

The apparent delay is likely one of three things. 1) maybe there is no delay and games will start shipping in August. 2) parts shortages might stop the startup line for three plus months to work out or 3) there is design issue of which the disc is the likely culprit. It will be resolved and the line will start to move in a few months.

We may be at an impasse, but my expectation is that the issue will be resolved by end of Summer.

1 week later
#2193 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballj:

Awesome! Thanks for posting as I didn't see it!

Looks like a long weekend of playing TH for me. POTC stream is 4p Eastern today.

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#2211 1 year ago

How about ships shooting cannon balls get those scenes after you score 1 hit, but the ship blowing up when you hit a bullseye and sink the dauntless with 3 hits?

#2212 1 year ago

I disagree with those who say the hype around POTC is gone. Let's say some ship in Aug and we start seeing footage by Sep. At that time I will immediately become highly interested in and will be following closely. How closely you ask? Like white on rice! I think most others will too. So it is like the hype is curled up in a cave and hibernating. But once Fall arrives and you poke hype with a stick, he'll be out in full fur.

In the meantime I've watched streams by top players (JJP Software/Designers team). Heck, JJP is even using a single disc pinball machine in their streams now. I've played a handful of games on JJPOTC with earlier code, but after looking at six streams with the most current code (each twice), I watched the rules, features and mb's get programmed in real time. Very cool process but if you can't take the heat .... just wait for it to come out. Don't wast your time watching any more of the streams. All I will say is that if you loved JJPOTC before, you'll worship it now. If you were neutral but interested in getting one before, you'll be excited to add one whenever you can work it out.

Now is time to patiently wait for things to happen. Play some other pins, enjoy the Summer heat and put all things in your life into perspective.

Sometimes the waiting for a new pinball machine to be released is the hardest part - t.p. (r.i.p.)

#2228 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

A good way for many to miss out on news

Chillax, you are on Pinside, nothing will by you.

1 week later
#2307 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Should be soon. Hoping for a double. Jack and Eric.
LTG : )

Ha Jack and Eric should stand back to back while someone ties each arm and leg together. Then they could do some real somersaults.

#2311 1 year ago

Guess which one is me?

#2317 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

God bless that glass half full attitude. More folks should have it.

Many JJP games have been changed from original concept. Big deals? Yes, but the changes were needed and took place. Time spent worrying about any of them now is crying over spilt milk. No amount of tears will change them back to their previous glory. For instance ...

WOZ serial lighting either broke or left Owners worried it soon would. That was a poor design choice by JJP and was covered under warranty for many, yet others had to shell $800 out of pocket to buy an upgraded boardset.

TH switched from direct print cabinets to high res decals because of vendor issues. But the decals were beautifully done and buyers were offered a choice to switch to alternate Smaug edition with decals.

POTC removed 2 discs from playfield while adding three to the LCD (so technically you gain one while losing the wow factor). The moving trunk lid was cut too (a small deal). Both were poorly designed and had to be removed because they were unreliable.

DI is the single game that didn't receive a major adjustment of some sort. The original poor title and theming choice were never corrected, even after public outcry and suggestions were offered. Ironically, JJP took no action in that instance and it has negatively impacted DI sales.

So yeah, changes happen and we should always remember them, but as POTC stands - it is looking pretty good. The single biggest complaint is a steep price tag and complaints about that fell on deaf ears to. Ha, you want something more? Here's your big price increase ... BAM!

#2319 1 year ago

I have one wish for JJP. Be that LEGENDARY pinball company where EVERY game made is SPECTACULAR, has the BEST rules/software/coding possible and incorporates new technology and TOYS.

1 week later
#2447 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

It's starting. I talked to Jack today and he's getting me a game for tech support and asked if I'd do a launch party. Within the next two/three weeks.
LTG : )

Quoted from KevInBuffalo:

Got the call -- my JJPOTC is on the line!

Quoted from Psw757:

Got my invoice yesterday for payment so hopefully any day now!
I’m excited!☠️

#2465 1 year ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

Great info! Thanks for sharing your well thought out, on topic contribution.
Is it just the angle, or is that playfield crazy packed?[quoted image]

na it's your eyes. Holy Mother of all Pinballs ... it's no wonder why the playfield is so thick. Next thing JJP crew will be creating is a genetically engineered wood playfield, grown with embedded anti-sagging properties (patent not pending).

I've said it before ... there is more technology in JJPOTC pinball and it is better than what NASA put in Apollo 11.

#2512 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Sounded like Jen.
LTG : )

Yep that sounded like Jersey Jen.

Way to go Jack! Happy for the entire JJP crew. Today marks the easiest day of the year for tech support. I'm looking at you Lloyd. . Time to take a tropical vacation. Report back in 10 days.

#2641 1 year ago

Happy to see the ramps being made at will.

Time for JJP to rebox the earliest production JJPOTC pinball machine and send it Lloyd's way. stat. He's already got a head start cause Eric fixed the gold button for him. It could probably be earning $ at SS Billiards by Tue morning.

#2699 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

One pin at a time I really feel for you mate but at least she let's you have a pin my missus is is way too nice and let's me indulge in my pinball passion but after Pirates all spare cash is going to save up for a holiday to the USA which isn't such a bad thing.

How long would your visit last to US? Suggest 8 weeks if you can swing it, and realize it will cost you a fortune ($20k+ for you and spouse) if done right. NYC for 1 week, DC for 1 week, Florida for 2 weeks (1 in Orlando), California for 2 weeks and whatever spots interest you most for 2 weeks.

#2768 1 year ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

The Potcle is at
foxx view lanes
2440 w sunset dr
waukesha, wi 53189 [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for posting. Good looking location. Great titles. Wish I lived closer. :bowling ball:

#2771 1 year ago
Quoted from dnaman:

Confused by this.
If he hooked you up with one that is supposed to ship this week then it must be in a lot that he had already committed for, and was already committed to him. Orwhat you are suggesting is that he does so much business with JJP that Jack would pull from another reseller to get you one.

Joe worked his magic and the deal was concluded, tells me Joe had a handle on the situation and came up with a solution. This has earned him one additional customer for life.

#2852 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Pirates joined my JJP line up yesterday.
LTG : )
[quoted image]

nice, and who maintains your pins?

#2949 1 year ago

Just read the ship has already sailed on POTC theme, after putting a deposit down on one yesterday. Wish I’d known. but eagerly awaiting the game’s arrival before Christmas. Hoping to order a Deadpool pro or Munsters, before they go out of fashion in November and nobody wants one.

#3011 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballj:

Woohoo! JJPOTCLE in the garage! Of course I don't have time tonight to set it up lol.
[quoted image]

So does this mean that JJP started shipping POTC pro’s to operators mid August and POTC LE’s to collectors the first week of September?

Look at the tip o tell decal on top right of box. Looks like it was handled correctly.

#3018 1 year ago
Quoted from KingBW:

Jack told me when I was at the JJP facility to not totally trust that. He had heard someone "could" buy those and just replace them as they are readily available. Not sure if that had actually happened once and hence the warning, or if it was just a talking point that those are not something that is JJP specific. So … always open the box and take a look before letting the driver leave. Don't put 100% confidence in those.

So true, it doesn’t take long for an exploit to show up. Fortunately, I don’t think the delivery staff care enough to look at, much less take effort to swap the sticker out. So I’d consider it highly reliable, but not guaranteed.

My reasoning is based on 20 nib pins I’ve received, where most were hand trucked from the wrong side. This is something of high importantance to the buyer, but evidently of no concern to delivery guy. I’d guess the delivery guy followed directions on the box about 25% of the time. Coincidence or evidence of a few good apples among the shipper? Well a box has four sides, one correct and three incorrect sides from which to truck. Odds for randomly selecting the correct side is 25%

So I’d trust it, since I currently only inspect the outside of box and scrutinize areas with signs of being crushed. The value of seeing the decal showing it had been tipped is - it might indicate the game was dropped off a forklift and the cabinet should be inspected further. Because there is nothing wrong shipping the game lying down on the correct side packed in a suv, IMO. If it rode in a semi and something heavy was placed on it, the box would be dented, crushed or torn. What other info does the decal reveal?

#3075 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Jack's stated goal is two new releases a year, so they have to have (or are moving toward) arranged production so they can get there. Even if they run WoZ on the secondary line and jjPotC on the main line through the end of the year, they can still get Wonka on the line in 1Q 2019, then Toy Story late 2019 then the next one (please not Muppets), then jjGnR in early 2020.

Wonder if they’ve given any thought to setting things up as quad manufacturing?

2 weeks later
#3138 1 year ago
Quoted from Skyemont:I was wondering where all the homeowner machines . Based on Joe's video from PinballStar, looks like they are all going overseas.

I thought the expectation for early adopters to receive this game was reset to Nov to Dec timeframe. if you are frustrated in early Oct, it is going to be a rough quarter for you

#3142 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

When was this announced?
Is this more conjecture or was this actually said?

Conjecture as JJP won’t tell anybody when to expect their pins. They said production in Summer and they got serious about setting up for Hobbit in July. Historically it has taken JJP three months to ramp up for production. So we should be at the point games are flowing out regularly right now. Allow a few months for games to get out to distributors and around Dec, EA’s and early distributor buyers will be seeing their games. Nothing happens fast in Pinball.

#3189 1 year ago

Getting a callout from Jack on video is a better tribute than hearing your first name recorded by Adam West. Keep them coming Jack.

#3195 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

And for the record - since we are poking fun.
I’m not that guy being referenced! Lol

(quiet voice) if he’s not you, is HE on Pinside? Can we “see” him or is Psw757 the only one who sees him?

2 weeks later
#3279 11 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Delivery confirmation for tomorrow tooooo excited. Thanks so much to Flippen-out-pinball Larry for a smooth sale and your continuous support. Best game, best dealer. Time to prep the area.

yelobird whom dio you have to screw to get your game quickly? I’m exploring options.

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