(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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  • 3,327 posts
  • 345 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by Yelobird
  • Topic is favorited by 57 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

6 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #593 The new artwork in high-res Posted by pinball_keefer (1 year ago)

Post #2454 Link to livestream of play on one of the first machines off the line Posted by solarvalue (1 year ago)

Post #2464 Picture of first jjPotCs on the line Posted by mountaingamer (1 year ago)

Post #2496 Link to Jack's "shipping" cartwheel for jjPotC. Posted by KingBW (1 year ago)

Post #2561 Comparison of prototype and final under playfields Posted by Join_The_Cirqus (1 year ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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46
#11 1 year ago

It seems like a lot to take out of a $9500 game.
As a replacement for removed mechs I would suggest making the right ramp have a diverter to go back to the right flipper some of the time instead of always going to the rocking upper playfield.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

I’m sure the decision wasn’t taken lightly. Good for JJP to take preemptive action. This is why games should not be rushed. Get it right the first time and save headaches from occurring down the road. Do the discs no longer all spin at all, even for awards? I could see them not spinning all the time to deflect the ball, but would be cool for a random award.

I think they are now one single whirlwind style spinning disk instead of three concentric independently spinning disks/rings.

33
#23 1 year ago

JJP really needs to stop showing games until they are on the assembly line.
The way they are showing games many months before the manufacturing starts causes the hype train to fade and also provides disappointments when things are removed from the original reveal of the game.

#229 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It won't happen, but at least you've taken a break from your ridiculous Stern bashing thread posts.
Secondly, the whole idea of a CE is already in question now.
As for dropping the price? That's idiotic, people want the higher level of pinball, not a stripped down pro version. $$ isn't the issue, get it?
And now you have an option, just don't buy it.
All your whining isn't going to change a thing. Wait until the Wednesday stream and let's see what is going to be the path forward.
And it's obvious when you take features away from an already VERY high priced pin it's not going to go over well with anybody!

$$ is the issue to me. I would have ordered a DILE if it were $7500 or probably even $8000. The value is just not there to me to justify paying so much for these games (DILE, JJPPOTCLE, and all LE Sterns over $8000 to date). When you dumb down the features even more that makes it even less likely for me to convince myself to fork over the price I already feel is above the value of the pinball machine.

I can afford whichever game I want but I just feel it is stupid to go overboard on overpriced games when I can get a lot of satisfaction out of other games that cost less, and the extra money I save can go to my second home or a new car.

#240 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

JJP can’t seem to compete in the $7-8k arena and make $$. Not enough volume

Unfortunately, I don't see how their business model will be sustainable long term.

#242 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Listen to Eric's words.
He says he is very happy with the change to the chest.
As for the artwork for new disc - just says, 'there it is'.
Hmmm, read into that what you will.

The life of a pinball designer just realized is what it sounds like to me. I am also an EE and I can't imagine doing pinball design for a living with its mediocre to low pay and frustrating limitations in design, economics, and time constraints.

#306 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Just heard that Eric will be on Kaneda's pinball podcast this Monday.

I guess that means he will not have his typical bash fest podcast episode that he does whenever there is disappointing news in the hobby.

#335 1 year ago

If the playfields are already made then that limits what can be done with the art because the art related to the disk is on the edge of the playfield where the disk begins.

#340 1 year ago
Quoted from musketd:

Is JJP lowering the price back down because of stripping out the features?

Nothing has been said about that.

11
#361 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

So in 1990 Whirlwind could do three spinning disks and they are still around today. But 18 years later we can no longer make them reliable?

To be fair, that is very different from what JJP was trying to do with concentric rings/disk and controlled lighted inserts.

#408 1 year ago
Quoted from moonduckie78:

Damn. That sucks. Good read. Popcorn thread!
I only buy the ODD NUMBERED JJP games anyway. But very sorry to everyone who was really excited about JJPOTC. Hopefully it can be saved.
But don't worry.......if history has taught us anything....it's that JJP#5 is going to be absolutely AMAZING!!!!

19
#510 1 year ago
Quoted from jorro:

If you are realy staff at jjp ,I find this a real stupid response and totaly not professional better ask your PR people to react in stead of the soldering dude

He is the programmer of WOZ, LOTR, and TSPP just to give you a clue who he is and what he contributes to the hobby.

People, let us all try to be civil in expressing our disagreements.

#585 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

They haven't run the playfields yet, we only saw the proposed changes to mech and artwork 3 days ago. The design needs to be finalized first.

A lot of people suspect the playfields are already made. Don't they take some time to cure after finishing? I have not seen any definitive answer from JJP on the question of if they are already made.

#615 1 year ago
Quoted from jkleinnd:

Why would we be waiting for a final decision/ confirmation from JJP? Did I miss their announcement of a pull back from the official decisions already made in the video?

Obviously, nothing will be official until it rolls off the assembly line and into a box and is shipped.

#634 1 year ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Levi, that’s kind of a bit of BS. Sterns QC has been SOOOO BAD at times. Avengers was an absolute joke, Ghostbusters was as bad or even worse...and that’s just on game features AS DESIGNED! I’m not even talking about decals peeling, clearcoat chipping, cabinets splitting, boards frying, etc.
Stern has had more problems than just lackadaisical code development. They have been very irresponsible with some of their releases.
Just sayin’.

One problem I see is that the people that play them (a lot) at arcades but don't buy games much don't care nearly as much about QC issues or getting feature packed games providing value for the price paid for the machine.

#711 1 year ago

The game just does not call out to me that it is a $9500 game, more like $8000 for the LE, same as DI LE which is priced at $9000.

#909 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yeah I'm sure JJP will be blowing these out for 500 bucks. I'll take 5 please!

They gotta keep the assembly line moving. If there are not enough orders then how do you keep it moving?
Well I guess there was that one time around 2013-14 where they came to what seemed like a halt for different reasons entirely.

#924 1 year ago
Quoted from danastude:

In reference to the first two pages of posts after the Wednesday stream:
I called my distributer today assure him of my excitement about upcoming POTC delivery. I also asked him if he had any cancelations. He informed me that he had none, but went on to say that he spoke with a few fellow distributors, and found out about two cancelations.
I call bullshit. While I am sure there are a few genuine cancelations due to “diskgate”, I believe that 85% of the people who post that they are canceling are not canceling, or never had a preorder in the first place.
I believe this thread contains a group of dreamers, who desperately want to start an avalanche of posts and/or cancelations thinking JJP will see this, and change their decision.
Again, I call Bullshit. Guys, IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. They made a decision. MOVE ON.
The “new idea posts”, which I believe to be a fruitless exercise, are at least an attempt at something constructive. The “I’m canceling” posts are mostly troll like bashing, and “fake news”.
Give JJP some credit here. JJP created WOZ and started a revolution in what pinball could be. They inspired new startups with more innovative ideas. I credit them with busting Stern out of it’s dinosaur box, and with creating a Renaissance with our hobby.
POTC is still a great table without the triple disk.
OK, you can go back now to your JJP bashing. Bashers - Your welcome…..I gave you something new to smack down on. Me. Bash away, I am done with this thread.

Enjoy your new game.

#935 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

I prefer the honest approach-
"Sure, everybody's been canceling and now I'm going to be stuck with twenty of these things. Are you really sure you still want yours?"
......will nail down a sale every time.

And I have heard each distributor has been required to buy CE’s with their allocations of other models.

#959 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They don’t make games that aren’t sold.
It’s not 1997.

So, speed up Toy Story to the line sooner than maybe we expected then?

#962 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I wouldn't expect a Toy Story reveal until at least next years Texas Pinball Festival. There's no point revealing at Expo in the fall, well one of them or whatever is going on with that show, with Pirates likely just starting to ship a few months beforehand.

I prefer reveals when the game is ready to ship.

#1246 1 year ago

Until JJP increases their manufacturing volumes they will always have very little margin for error or flexibility in terms of pricing and game features. Their present business model of low volume production and high prices requires maximum/full featured games to entice the buyer at the highest pricing to have any chance for financial survival. The lower volume they produce puts them in a precarious position because if they have a few titles in a row that have mediocre to poor sales then that likely results in big losses. I would guess Hobbit had mediocre sales. DI also appears to have been less than a homerun in sales because of the theming and pricing of a non-licensed game (I really like the game, just not the price). JJPOTC looked to be a hit when initially shown, but now with the recent news the sales forecasts are hard to determine.

#1313 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Said camera used for high scores

I wouldn't mind that feature in all games. It has been fun to see them on DI.

2 weeks later
#1654 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

You can have Rum BOTTLES, but no rum actually IN the bottles. That's why Tortuga MB features empty bottles everywhere.
Believe me guys, we know these movies and are huge fans of them. We seriously tried our best to get what we could into them. It sounds kind of silly to say we are pushing the limits, but...

When you do Willy Wonka make sure you get the rights to include the fizzy lifting drinks.

1 week later
#1712 1 year ago

Does the $9500 LE have basic black powder coated trim?

#1714 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Yes basic powder coat black. I will be installing different ones.

I'm done with commenting on value. worn out

I hope JJP is successful, but

#1732 1 year ago
Quoted from ViperJelly:

Edit: Looked at the topper again and decided this can't be real. That has to be a place holder until the reveal.

I am guessing you have not seen the DI collector's edition topper then?

1 month later
#2139 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

LOL JJP is no Ferrari and Ferrari put out 4 models in 2018 that is more then JJP has put out in the last 5 yr

Then, than, what’s the difference?

#2196 1 year ago
Quoted from thewool:

"It's your husband's life or your case of Wonka bars!"
If they get licensing approval to use movie assets such as clips, speech, music, characters, etc. I'm definitely 1000% in. Fancy if Pat was doing the design, you can see the tagline now... the Willy Wonka of pinball designing Willy Wonka!! This could be the spiritual successor to WOZ, chocolate factory under the glass, lick-able radcals, etc.
Ok now back to Pirates
edit: my avatar has been like that for years, coincidence?

I would think Pat is working on Toy Story and Eric is doing Wonka based on the fact that Toy Story was supposedly going to be next and Eric has JJPOTC coming. The speculation from some is that JJP was able to get more comprehensive licensing rights for Wonka than Toy Story and decided that Wonka would be a better business decision to be next and also give Pat more time for Toy Story.

1 month later
#2533 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

There is no topper on standards which is what they are making now.

The LE has the black trim. Standard has stainless.

3 weeks later
#3043 1 year ago
Quoted from KingBW:

While we are speculating, I think that there will be a new reveal at expo. Ted said a few weeks ago that all of the coders are too busy on "something" and didn't currently have time to fix a few remaining things in the TH code. No recent JJPLive feeds for new(er) TH code or new DI code. In the Expo thread, it was hinted that there "might" be a reveal from the Expo organizers too. No recent JJPLive feeds for new(er) TH code or new DI code. If JJPOTC sales drop off at Q1 of next year, they need to start making something new. I'm guessing that they are working hard on prototypes of the next pin to see if it "can" be ready for a reveal at Expo. Just my reasons for speculations.

It would be stupid to do another reveal a year or more before a game is ready to be produced. The waiting kills the instant gratification sales that are so huge and taken advantage of by certain manufacturers in this hobby.

#3049 1 year ago
Quoted from mcbPalisade:

To point out how big the 800# gorilla in the room is:
Stern makes 50 pins a day according to TWIP today.
I've heard and believe that JJP makes ~1,000 games a year which isn't even 5 per day.
No idea about Spooky and the others.

To survive, JJP likely will need to increase production and lower prices eventually, but we don't really know their true financial situation making it hard to judge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale

#3058 1 year ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

There’s an $8500 standard you can get.
To be fair I think the gap between JJP standard vs LE is far too narrow. Stern pros vs premium is roughly $2k~. Imagine how many units JJP could sell of pirates if the standard was $8k~ shipped.

At $8000 or above, manufacturers are cutting out at least 75% of the potential buyers either by pricing people out in affordability or on principle.
Stern has a less expensive Pro and a Premium to fall back on for those buyers. JJP does not have anything for those people. It would have to be a licensed title and a great game I can't resist for me to go above $8000. I might deviate from that conviction for only a couple of licenses after I see the layout.
Also, at $9000 to 9500 the game should have everything including nice powder coating and the darn ship in the bottle topper.

3 weeks later
#3209 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

never see anyone on the line building them?? Seems like with the huge line of cash standing outside they would be double teaming this to bank on this amazing creation. Just an observation and when it does arrive I am Certain this will be great.

JJP has always been that way since the early days of WOZ. I don't remember ever seeing a factory picture of building any of their games where you can see more than 8 to 10 assembly workers.

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