Pirates of the Caribbean
Jersey Jack, 2018
Pirates of the Caribbean (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2018You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider crazylevi.
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Smart move. I think everybody who had put some serious time working on games knew that triple spinner was going to be a disaster.
Surprised to see so many people making this out to be a dealbreaker but people want what they want I guess.
Quoted from Sinestro:Replacing a potential problem mech is smart. Replacing it with a 1972 Fireball mech is not, especially for a premium priced machine.
They need to replace it with something else unique, high tech, and reliable.
So another year and untold R&D on another "unique high tech" mech and HOPE this one turns out to be reliable?
People here simply need to be more realistic about what goes into building a pinball machine. JJP did the smart thing to get this game toward production. That's what pinball companies that want to stay in business have to do - keep the line moving.
Quoted from rubberducks:If they're changing them this late in the design cycle and almost 6 months after the launch, it's likely because they've tried very hard to make them work, but weren't happy with the results and took a pragmatic decision.
Half of pinside was saying the discs would never work and would potentially ruin the game when announced. Now it's the end of the world that it's being removed for reliability reasons? Come on.
Everyone was wowed by the pitching upper pf ... now the disc was the main feature? Really?
The chest change is definitely a good idea. The machine I played and every time I've seen it streamed there were good shots rejected, some of which would go SDTM. If as he suggests the change fixes this, then I can't see how it's not good.
As for cheaping out ... this remains by far the most ambitious machine since WOZ and still has so much interactive stuff going on. I'd be amazed if a similarly expensive Stern LE was anywhere close to half the BoM - even for the seemingly upgraded Iron Maiden LE. PotC is still the veritable kitchen sink.
Finally, features are cut or scaled back for reliability or cost reasons on all games. You're just actually witnessing the former here because JJP have decided to launch the games and test them publicly for months before they ship. How many machines have been half-arsed engineering or reliability wise lately, or if not physically then with code? Far too many.
Couldn’t help but chuckle reading this, as I’m familiar with your recent work. I’m sure you’d be just as understanding if this were a stern game and they just announced these changes.
Those movies are terrible and the pin is better for not having any video ripped from them! Just like the Stern version.
Quoted from Psw757:That is really a matter of opinion. I think some of the Marvel stuff sucks, some think Star Wars sucks.
What more can you say?
JJP thought they were good enough to make a pin based on all 5 movies.
Maybe the whole idea is a major blunder.
That's a good point actually. Some people think Star Wars is great because it has so many clips from the movies. Others complain that "if I want to watch the DVD I don't need to spend $6,000."
So basically...it doesn't really matter. Half the people are always gonna complain.
Quoted from tonycip:Well somebody likes them they made 5 of them and the franchize earned over 4 billion!
movie critic might not be your strong suit .. just saying
They made like 9 Police Academy movies bro...just saying
Quoted from tonycip:4 BILLION DOLLARS ! police academy less then 1/4 that in 7 movies.. your roll dude.
Counting box office is always a silly argument. Unless you think Taylor Swift is better than Black Sabbath. Unless you think the Pirates movies are better than Goodfellas.
Besides you are missing my point entirely - these games don't need movie clips.
Quoted from jorro:what about no disk at all?
Sagan mind blown gif
Quoted from Sinestro:That's still paying for something. That's money that could have been used elsewhere, but was locked in to get the game as advertised.
Cue the violins
Quoted from TheWizard00:damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Really, no.
There's clearly ONE best way of doing it, and it's the Stern way. People bitch about code all the time, but that can always be fixed or changed. Clearly it's not worth it to reveal games until they are absolutely ready - that's the big takeaway from all of this. It's not worth it to dazzle a show crowd just to have to deal with potential messes like this months later.
I hope everybody remembers this next time it seems like the end of the world that a game isn't being revealed at a show, but I doubt it.
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:Yes but he’s not helping the situation.
I didn't see anything wrong with any of his comments here - concise, to the point, with zero attitude. I thought we wanted to hear from people at these companies, right?
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Levi, that’s kind of a bit of BS. Sterns QC has been SOOOO BAD at times. Avengers was an absolute joke, Ghostbusters was as bad or even worse...and that’s just on game features AS DESIGNED! I’m not even talking about decals peeling, clearcoat chipping, cabinets splitting, boards frying, etc.
Stern has had more problems than just lackadaisical code development. They have been very irresponsible with some of their releases.
Just sayin’.
Apples and oranges dude.
Can you seriously cite something just like this?!
Issues post release are different than such drastic post-reveal changes.
Just sayin
Quoted from flashinstinct:In light of all of this perhaps a little humour
JJP: We are going to screw you over this much
<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Customer backlash
JJP: Fine... we'll screw you over this much
<------------------------------------------------------->
Customers rejoice
Ok so when do we get that humor?
Quoted from Pimp77:It’s a little more like ordering lobster, filet mignon with a Caesar salad and potato and the waiter saying “it’s now lobster and sirloin with a Caesar salad and potato.
It’s mostly the same game.
Actually, it's more like ordering a porterhouse and some truffle garlic mashed potatoes, and the waiter returns and starts comparing everything to cars.
Quoted from Sinestro:Lame. They aren't even addressing the 900 lbs elephant in the room. Just keep going, nothing to see here.
Lame.
Eric addressed it. To paraphrase:
-
This is the FINAL design. It will not change, except for tweaking the artwork to make the colors match.
They could not get the original mech to work right. They tried their best and had plenty of feedback from 20 games out in the field. It has nothing to do with cost or code, it was simply a matter of reliability as they've said before. Nobody is more disappointed than Eric. The game is still fun.
-
So that's it gang. Perhaps if people continue to bombard them with questions/abuse/pleading/anger/regret the answer will change but I would say that's simply not going to happen. So, since nobody is actually out any money on this, it might be time for everybody to move on and consider the game's merits as it currently sits.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:The guy who has been banned from Pinside multiple times and tried to hide a Predator machine in his basement?
The guy who is a total tool and price policer on Facebook?
Quoted from hockeymag8:I thought this and related threads would start to die off now that we have the final answers.................guess not.......new fuel.....
I feel we still haven't collectively moved onto Acceptance and closure.
We are past Anger but still in the Denial/Bargaining phase.
Quoted from o-din:Perhaps it's time to bump that "dark night for Stern" thread.
We already did last week.
There are some absolute howlers in that thread. Really funny stuff. I mean, most of it was ridiculously hilarious when it was fresh but those posts ain't aging well!
Quoted from pipes:I don't think JJP would ever release a new model down the road that would change the gameplay dynamics of the game. Don't all the various WOZ and Hobbit versions play the same? I may be wrong but aren't the differences all cosmetic really?
Yes. One of the best things about JJP games. I didn't notice a single difference between my Dialed in and the Dialed In LE that cost 1,000 more besides the powdercoating. I know there's plenty of other things in there, but in my experience you get the premium experience on a JJP game with their "cheapest" model.
Quoted from spinal:I'm so done with all this - Pinball is supposed to be fun and this is just depressing. I'll check in again when Toy Story is revealed and hopefully the lessons learned from this cosmic flop will help. What a shame. Anyway, so sorry for how this all turned out and wish everyone the best. I'm outy here and going to enjoy some of the many other great ways to enjoy this hobby. I'll start off with a game of WOZ - my son loves that game. Bye.
And there it is ladies and gents! Acceptance.
I knew we could get through this together.
Quoted from estrader:Which is why I'd like a thorough explanation from Jack. Why didnt it work and why cant they fix it.
What good would this do anybody? How could this possibly help the company, or in fact, the consumer?
I think Eric's explanation was thorough enough.
Quoted from SilverBallz:well said. this topic has run it's course.
When do these games start shipping? I'd like to play one or maybe buy one on clearance.
Yeah I'm sure JJP will be blowing these out for 500 bucks. I'll take 5 please!
Quoted from DCFAN:They gotta keep the assembly line moving. If there are not enough orders then how do you keep it moving?
Well I guess there was that one time around 2013-14 where they came to what seemed like a halt for different reasons entirely.
They don’t make games that aren’t sold.
It’s not 1997.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Thats not true.
You want a Hobbitt?
How about one of each model, NIB?
At a “clearance price?” Sure bro. Hook me up.
Honestly nobody here has any idea what they are talking about.
Quoted from pipes:It did seem like it was still kind of up in air until the last JJP stream.
No it didn't. That was a complete invention of Pinside.
Quoted from dtowndobe:I hope to play the most current version at Pinfest, if there will be one there in its "final" configuration. As much as I am disappointed with the changes, I'm still interested in the game and would consider getting one in a year or two.
I'm not in on any preorder for full disclosure.
I feel like once people get over the personal hurt and affront they are feeling and actually play the game, the tide will turn back a bit and many will be back in.
Happens every time.
Quoted from Mike_J:Maybe, I guess we'll see.
I think JJP has hit the ceiling with pricing and at 10K (including shipping) folks will not accept what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as a compromised machine.
What’s the basic model, $8500?
Quoted from mcbPalisade:Pinball is much different than most electronic industries.
At HP if we (as engineers) gave an unfinished/tested product to a customer and expected them to debug it for us we would be out on the street.
In pinball developers ask that you download log files on already sold products and send them in so they can get their project closer to "finished." Most people don't bat an eye at this.
Boggles my mind
It shouldn’t boggle your mind.
Since you work there, you probably know HP isn’t selling pinball machines. There’s a lot of stuff we do at my Job differently than the Pinball industry as well, it doesn’t boggle my mind.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I keep hearing this, but what’s the big deal? It’s different (uh-oh, look out). If you don’t want to go up to the mini playfield, than don’t hit the damn ramp. I love ramps in general and the fact that they usually return the ball to the flipper, because it’s fun and flowy. But most ramp shots are no more impactful than any other shot on the playfield might be. So in this case, the ramp serves an actual purpose other than collecting one reward on one shot, that is, delivering you to the ship.
What’s the big deal?
Haven’t played Potc so have no opinion on it yet. But as a former WWE owner I understand concern about the possible overuse of a gimmick upper playfield like that.
Quoted from Yelobird:Curious if anyone from the Chicago area went to the 257 POTC open invitation? Seems like a great place (with alcohol) to talk directly with Eric and team to see if there was Any flexibility to the plan? Sadly I missed it traveling, just wondering if anyone made it. I think it was from 6-9 on Friday.
Yeah, I went! It was great.
I got a little too drunk and kept throwing my arm around Eric and slurring suggestions about how to “fix” the situation. I woke up in a gutter, but I have a good feeling about the whole thing! My memory is a little fuzzy but I think Eric was really into my ideas.
Hey you know this was kind of lost in all the bullshit:
"Will the new disc spin in both directions or at different speeds?
The new disk will spin in both directions and at variable speeds. Hitting the map targets is what starts and changes the speed/direction of the map."
That indeed makes the spinner much different than any other ever produced. Right? Can't think of any other games with spinning discs that behave this way. Correct me if I'm wrong please, with as much abuse as possible.
Quoted from o-din:Twister has a disc that spins at different speeds by pulsing the motor, but wow changing directions?
What a technological marvel!
Cute, but still, "this is the same disc as Fireball '72" meme no longer works.
Besides, aren't you on team "who gives a shit" now?
Quoted from Ns2973:You do realize what you are defending is you preordering your Bentley with Corinthian leather, they release it with vinyl seats and charge you the same right?
Corinthian leather only comes on Chryslers hawked by Ricardo Montelbon and we ain't shopping for that kind of garbage around here!
Look, the dude clearly pre-ordered a Ferrarri with optional retracting antenna. But, months before it's release, the antenna mech was proven to be aerodynamically inefficient so it was removed, and replaced by a static but more form-fitting antenna.
So, the choice is this - does he accept this Ferrari with this small, mostly cosmetic alteration? Or does he decide to shop for something else in the Italian exotic market? Perhaps a Lambo?
In the case of POTC it's even tougher, because really, who else is churning out Ferraris? Stern LEs are more like high-end caddilacs. Houdini is more like a concept car. And Alien is kind of like a Delorean in that it looks cool but drives terribly, breaks down like it's its job, and the company's owners will likely be selling cocaine soon in a last-ditch attempt to keep the doors of the factory open.
So what I'm trying to say is - screw pinball. I'm sick of it, and I'm heading over to a car forum. WHO'S WITH ME?!
Quoted from screaminr:I'm glad you're up do you ever leave pinside
Between the hours of not 9 to 5 you'll find my posting drops precipitously. You'll also notice many post much, much more than I do.
I'm kind of like a Shelby Cobra. Quality over quantity, but also mildly overrated.
Quoted from iceman44:He does the interview, says he's sorry and then offers nothing for removing 2 main features from the game.
How about dropping the price $500 back to DI levels?
Love the people, love the pin, hate the BS way it was handled.
Period.
I know you aren't a hater but you and your ilk need to stop driving this point into the ground.
They can't and won't just unilaterally lower prices. They have a business plan and they are sticking to it and aren't going to slash machines $500. Stop begging for it as it's kind of embarrassing. Pinball prices go up every year, just like the price of everything else, and it's not going to stop, and it's not to regress because they "removed features" that nobody has paid for yet.
Come on man...there's still a chance here to keep your dignity!
Quoted from Yelobird:In my view (not much value except to myself) if JJP did one thing wrong it was not having Jack do the announcement like he did yesterday to make this change.
It did seem kind of cruel and ineffective throwing Eric to the wolves with that initial announcement!
Quoted from flashinstinct:I know from my end that Jack can shove that pirate game right up his *port* for pulling this kind of bullshit 2 minutes to midnight but I'm a drop in the bucket compared to the people lacking the balls to follow through with their threat of cancellation..
We are talking about pinball machines here. What is wrong with you?
LOL @ "lacking the balls." It's a good thing absolutely nobody here is lacking perspective or any sense of reality.
Quoted from vid1900:Those are some of the highest paid actors in Hollywood, so I'm pretty sure JJP will not have the cash to hire them for any voiceover work.
20. Jeremy Renner: $19 million
19. Matt Damon: $21 million
18. Ryan Reynolds: $21.5 million
17. Jennifer Lawrence: $24 million
16. Jennifer Aniston: $25.5 million
15. Emma Stone: $26 million
14. Ryan Gosling: $29 million
13. Samuel L. Jackson: $30.5 million
12. Tom Hanks: $31 million
11. Chris Hemsworth: $31.5 million
10. Akshay Kumar: $35.5 million
9. Salman Khan: $37 million
8. Shah Rukh Khan: $38 million
7. Tom Cruise: $43 million
6. Robert Downey Jr.: $48 million
5. Jackie Chan: $49 million
4. Adam Sandler: $50.5 million
3. Vin Diesel: $54.5 million
2. Dwayne Johnson: $65 million
1. Mark Wahlberg: $68 million
It can't be that simple, right?
When Williams "hired" Arnold to do T2 and DE hired him for LAH, he was the biggest and highest-paid movie star on the planet. Clint Eastwood wasn't exactly troy McClure either. Hell, frugal Stern even managed to secure the services of Arnold in 2003 when he'd just gotten paid $30 million to do T3.
Like many lists (the "Whoa Nellie is the #1 game in location pinball!" howler comes to mind) this really doesn't tell the whole story.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:The studios want there cash. A lot of High salaries for tons of people you wouldnt think deserve half a million a year. Oh, and Disney pixar has more vice presidents than the population of Austria.
Worried that Toy story will be cookie cutter of pirates in the asset depts.
These are not the kinds of things that should keep you up at night.
Perhaps JJP will be able to obtain the assets from the film, and get speech in there the way Stern did for Star Wars. Or maybe they'll get Tom Hanks at a hometown discount like how Williams convinced the biggest movie star on the planet to record speech for T2. Or maybe they'll hire Tom Hanks' brother (I love this!). Or maybe they won't do any of that stuff and you won't get any of it in the Toy Story game.
Either way...don't let it make your hair fall out. It's only pinball.
Quoted from vid1900:Secretly, I think Fred Young did Arnold's voice, and Joe Pesci, and Johnny Depp, and.....
https://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2006/index4.html
Great. Hire that guy!
Game looks cool. SPinner "affects ball path" and throws it into the outlanes.
But I don't wanna be a pirate!!!!
Quoted from bgwilly31:Why do people keep asking for more action from the spinner. The one on the stream had plenty of action. Caused at least 3 drains as is.
Why in the world would you want even more chaos right in front of your flippers then the spinner is already doing? You get any more chaotic then it already is and you start brushing with frustration and not fun anymore.
People are out of their minds.
Quoted from colonel_caverne:Is it surprising? The DI trap door is badly design. They are also unable to make reliable the 3 spinning discs.
JJP is really supposed to build a pin like Toy Story? There are So many ideas of great toys but I highly doubt JJP could design them. Their credibility is tainted imho. You can feel all eric’s dismay on the video.
The trap door is fine all you have to do is bend a piece of metal.
And unless you are fantasizing about a Toy Story with several 3 spinning disc mechs you really shouldn't be too worried.
If anybody in the nyc area wants to come play POTC, we’ll have one on free play on Sunday at the New York City pinball Championships.
$10 spectator tickets available.
http://projectpinball.org/events/new-york-city-pinball-championship-2018/
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