(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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There are 3327 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 67.
#401 1 year ago

I would have no problem paying in full, but I don’t believe that is the issue in this case. They most likely found out that their bill of materials was to high and decided that they needed to pull some features back to make the game profitable.

#402 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

JJP has proposed a cut and run solution: replace the most complex piece of hardware with a simple motor. Reasons given is that original design at high speeds is unreliable and too loud and a simple motor will be reliable and quieter. Since they are willing to make this very drastic move at any expense to their reputation, I'm assuming two things for now:
1. We're not getting the three disks spinning at high rate as originally proposed.
2. Although looking a bit suspicious right now, im still taking their word that the reason it's being cut is THAT IT DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY AT HIGH SPEED AND IS TOO LOUD.
Many good alternative solutions have been proposed. Here is a poll:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll
For me the obvious solution is that the hardware remain exactly as is EXCEPT that it's initial intended purpose be modified (just moving slowly now as a cool toy to show progress on lining up interlocking rings). Here are reasons why:
1. The device has been tested at high speed for a long time. So if it operated only at low speeds now, it will probably be the most reliable device ever made (if high speed was the main reliability issue).
2. Yes, we give up the fact that the rings put action on the ball but I'm OK with that. But remember that often not all 3 rings were rotating. In fact, when spinning fast one could not see much of anything and they weren't spinning that fast in the movie anyway. What was cool was SEEING the 3 rings. It's a cool piece of hardware that just looks cool! So, like most of us who voted, it's not a downgrade to have this piece of hardware stay as is just moving slowly, rings moving around slowly while playing.
3. What we gain is that this cool piece of hardware can now be tied even more into gameplay! Remember that each disk can be moved to any orientation by software and the game always knows the orientation of each disk. This allows for making shots that turn the discs on the playfield and the goal is to reach certain configurations for jackpots or finishing modes etc. certain shots could change directions of rings or pops could randomly change directions etc. Making lit shots turns a ring to left or right and you make shots to get rings aligned as you need - exactly like the puzzle theme of movie! In my view this is even better than having just spin a high speed where you can't see anything and does not add much to gameplay (except action on the ball).
4. JJP is obviously in rush mode now and are no longer willing to wait it out. This proposal of using the original hardware just at very slow speeds is best here. No changes needed at all - leave everything exactly as is - only code has to change. In the worst case ship the game with limited integrations as described in 3. and update code later - we will understand.
5. Quiet as a mouse if each ring only moving a bit here and there one or a few positions at a time.
It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water here - the hardware is very cool even if not spinning at high speed. I have actually come to think it's better slower - to have it more integrated into gameplay, always visible because not blurred away and closer to movie movement, and now reliable and silent.
If the real reasons for completely cutting this hardware are indeed high speed reliability and it being too loud, then this low-speed original hardware solution checks all boxes and is the obvious way forward. We have voted on it as well (poll above) and the majority prefer this over replacing with the single stock motor.
If they don't go with this most obvious compromise then clearly we know that there are other reasons being kept from us and JJP are not being forthright here to their loyal supporters.
If there is anyone who doesn't think this is a good compromise (especially since zero changes to hardware have to be made), please post below and let's hash this out. We are cheering Eric and JJP on here and hope they make the right decisions for this game to reach its greatest potential!

I completely agree with everything you said.

However your assuming the original mech can work as your describing without serious modification and reengineering. So it's not a guarantee the mech is even capable. Probable yes but you know what I mean.

I'd also like to see what jjp has come up with first. But I do like the idea of the map acting as a key map for the player to find out which mode or what shot he should be shooting.

#403 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Cant sell out of unlimited runs... i believe they are over 2000 dile sold tho which is pretty good imo.

The $8000 standard is unlimited the LE and CE are not unlimited and neither are sold out

#404 1 year ago

THIS JUST IN FROM STERN!

Deadpool changes:

Do to reliability issues with the Deadpool toy's mouth opening and closing, the revised toy will have its mouth sealed shut. We at Stern feel this is a more reliable solution and will cause less issues on location.

Wolverine-Origins-Deadpool-Cameo (resized).jpg

#405 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

As someone else said, no video content, no licensed music and really only one nice toy now.

I know I'm late to the party, but you're saying that this game has no video from the movies?

#406 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I know I'm late to the party, but you're saying that this game has no video from the movies?

Wow, you really are late.

#407 1 year ago

Damn. That sucks. Good read. Popcorn thread!

I only buy the ODD NUMBERED JJP games anyway. But very sorry to everyone who was really excited about JJPOTC. Hopefully it can be saved.

But don't worry.......if history has taught us anything....it's that JJP#5 is going to be absolutely AMAZING!!!!

#408 1 year ago
Quoted from moonduckie78:

Damn. That sucks. Good read. Popcorn thread!
I only buy the ODD NUMBERED JJP games anyway. But very sorry to everyone who was really excited about JJPOTC. Hopefully it can be saved.
But don't worry.......if history has taught us anything....it's that JJP#5 is going to be absolutely AMAZING!!!!

#409 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I know I'm late to the party, but you're saying that this game has no video from the movies?

The party's over bud.

#410 1 year ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Wow, you really are late.

It wasn't a title that interested me at first, but I got a chance to play it a few weeks ago and thought it was pretty cool. I normally stay away from things that haven't been released yet.

#411 1 year ago
Quoted from adborto:

I would have no problem paying in full, but I don’t believe that is the issue in this case. They most likely found out that their bill of materials was to high and decided that they needed to pull some features back to make the game profitable.

My belief as well!

#412 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I know I'm late to the party, but you're saying that this game has no video from the movies?

The scenes they used are nothing memorable from any of the movies and show none of the actors. Have you watched any of the videos?

Some have been complaining about this from day 1.

#413 1 year ago

Those movies are terrible and the pin is better for not having any video ripped from them! Just like the Stern version.

#414 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Those movies are terrible and the pin is better for not having any video ripped from them! Just like the Stern version.

That is really a matter of opinion. I think some of the Marvel stuff sucks, some think Star Wars sucks.

What more can you say?

JJP thought they were good enough to make a pin based on all 5 movies.

Maybe the whole idea is a major blunder.

#415 1 year ago

Wonder how things are going over at JJP this morning?

#416 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

That is really a matter of opinion. I think some of the Marvel stuff sucks, some think Star Wars sucks.
What more can you say?
JJP thought they were good enough to make a pin based on all 5 movies.
Maybe the whole idea is a major blunder.

That's a good point actually. Some people think Star Wars is great because it has so many clips from the movies. Others complain that "if I want to watch the DVD I don't need to spend $6,000."

So basically...it doesn't really matter. Half the people are always gonna complain.

#417 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Those movies are terrible and the pin is better for not having any video ripped from them! Just like the Stern version.

Well somebody likes them they made 5 of them and the franchize earned over 4 billion!
movie critic might not be your strong suit .. just saying

13
#418 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Those movies are terrible and the pin is better for not having any video ripped from them! Just like the Stern version.

If you don't like the movies that's fine. I did not think they were that good either. However if you want to make a Pirates of the Caribbean pin you should have real scenes from the movie. just my opinion..

#419 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Those Pirate movies are terrible and the pin is better for not having any video ripped from them! - CORRECT!!!!
I think the Marvel stuff sucks - ALSO CORRECT!!!!! And some think Star Wars sucks - ONCE AGAIN, CORRECT!!!!!.

#420 1 year ago

I had to cancel my order.

#421 1 year ago
Quoted from ASOA:

If you don't like the movies that's fine. I did not think they were that good either. However if you want to make a Pirates of the Caribbean pin you should have real scenes from the movie. just my opinion..

Dialed In didn't need to have scenes from the movie included, and IT was still a great game!.....

#422 1 year ago
Quoted from tonycip:

Well somebody likes them they made 5 of them and the franchize earned over 4 billion!
movie critic might not be your strong suit .. just saying

They made like 9 Police Academy movies bro...just saying

#423 1 year ago

4 BILLION DOLLARS ! police academy less then 1/4 that in 7 movies.. your roll dude.

#424 1 year ago
Quoted from tonycip:

4 BILLION DOLLARS ! police academy less then 1/4 that in 7 movies.. your roll dude.

Counting box office is always a silly argument. Unless you think Taylor Swift is better than Black Sabbath. Unless you think the Pirates movies are better than Goodfellas.

Besides you are missing my point entirely - these games don't need movie clips.

#425 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They made like 9 Police Academy movies bro...just saying

Yeah but those 9 police academy movies didn't even make 10% of what the 5 Pirates movies grossed...

#426 1 year ago

Hey whats wrong with Taylor Swift! lol I know they don't need them but it would be nice to tie the whole thing together
also some call outs from someone other then gibbs. just bustin your balls got to do something till wed.

#427 1 year ago

Ironically, although this was not their intention, Stern did a decent job with the clips from GOTG. Since they didn't get the actor's voices, they just show action scenes...kind of like background noise....you know it's there, it ties the game together.....but you're not having to watch cut scenes of the movie.

And all the voice readings of the script lines are teed up nicely to be replaced with Pinball Browser.

#428 1 year ago

In all seriousness I wonder if people canceled their orders due to the update.

#429 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Counting box office is always a silly argument.

Tell that to the bank.

-1
#430 1 year ago

I bet you 90% of the people who said they are not going to buy the game because of the change still will. What a bunch of complainers. You guys will bitch about anything.

#431 1 year ago
Quoted from Indusguys:

I bet you 90% of the people who said they are not going to buy the game because of the change still will. What a bunch of complainers. You guys will bitch about anything.

I doubt 90%.

#432 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's a good point actually. Some people think Star Wars is great because it has so many clips from the movies. Others complain that "if I want to watch the DVD I don't need to spend $6,000."
So basically...it doesn't really matter. Half the people are always gonna complain.

Very true and the only ones that really should complain are those that have ordered or are planning buying the machine.

-4
#433 1 year ago

Yeah more like 99%

#434 1 year ago
Quoted from Indusguys:

Yeah more like 99%

99% backing out.

#435 1 year ago

Who is Black Sabbath?
The discs is what was really cool and innovative. Kinda like the star field on Star Trek that was flipping the coolest thing I had seen in awhile!

#436 1 year ago
Quoted from Indusguys:

Yeah more like 99%

Not everyone will back out but I imagine a large amount will. You can't change such a big piece, so close to release. If I was in, I would have cancelled already.

#437 1 year ago
Quoted from Indusguys:

I bet you 90% of the people who said they are not going to buy the game because of the change still will. What a bunch of complainers. You guys will bitch about anything.

Canadian... enough said..

#438 1 year ago

America!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^

#439 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

99% backing out.

I believe most of the dropouts will stay out. This is one of the most expensive games ever offered (aside from BM66SLE). People want their game to be complete. If remaining gameplay matches the price, people will reconsider. Nothing wrong with reevaluating. I believe JJP will revisit the issue before production and will propose a different solution that is more agreeable. One that is more of a win-win, whereas proposed pizza spinner is lose-lose.

#440 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They made like 9 Police Academy movies bro...just saying

Yeah or two dozen James Bond, with a lot of stinkers

#441 1 year ago

I hope Eric can take all this backlash back to upper management so they can fix it and not offer one spinning disc I want his first game to be a home run and feel that it deserves more like what he originally designed.

#442 1 year ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

In all seriousness I wonder if people canceled their orders due to the update.

Yes

#443 1 year ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

In all seriousness I wonder if people canceled their orders due to the update.

Yes

#444 1 year ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I hope Eric can take all this backlash back to upper management so they can fix it and not offer one spinning disc

Like Jack isn't reading this...lol....please.

15
#445 1 year ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I hope Eric can take all this backlash back to upper management so they can fix it

First off, upper management should never have thrown him under the bus like they did. Why was he the one to present this alone, where was the support? Where was Jack or Joe or Pat or Keith? I find it hard to believe that they did not know this was going to blow up big and ugly.

Second, why publish this when they knew he would be at a show with may folks with deposits down, who they had to know were not going to be happy. That is not how you should treat someone, Eric deserves better and to me it only made them look worse (at least folks got a last chance to play with the three concentric disks).

Third, I feel bad for Eric (and Keith) that they can't make this work, I am sure he was proud of it, and it was super cool. I have to think that 99% of the suggestions and alternatives they that have been throw out have already been assessed by the JJP team. I sure hope, that they have spent a lot of time trying to making this work and this was very much a last resort, but again, show a united front, don't take your new hot designer and hang him out to dry.

On a positive note, for those not happy and want to get out, there are quite a few games to look at Iron Maiden, Houdini, TNA . . .

#446 1 year ago
Quoted from spoke:

First off, upper management should never have thrown him under the bus like they did. Why was he the one to present this alone, where was the support? Where was Jack or Joe or Pat or Keith? I find it hard to believe that they did not know this was going to blow up big and ugly.
Second, why publish this when they knew he would be at a show with may folks with deposits down, who they had to know were not going to be happy. That is not how you should treat someone, Eric deserves better and to me it only made them look worse (at least folks got a last chance to play with the three concentric disks).
Third, I feel bad for Eric (and Keith) that they can't make this work, I am sure he was proud of it, and it was super cool. I have to think that 99% of the suggestions and alternatives they that have been throw out have already been assessed by the JJP team. I sure hope, that they have spent a lot of time trying to making this work and this was very much a last resort, but again, show a united front, don't take your new hot designer and hang him out to dry.
On a positive note, for those not happy and want to get out, there are quite a few games to look at Iron Maiden, Houdini, TNA . . .

I agree. It did feel like he was hung out to dry. They should be kissing his you know what. It sure seemed like JJP had a lot of preorders from his work and leadership. The interviews showed that he knows his stuff. This was a dream theme for me and now I’m waiting to see if Munsters, Jaws, TAFr or TZr ever materialize. Hopefully it will change back to as promised. I’m waiting to hear what JJP says. Hoepefuliy some clarification will come soon.

#447 1 year ago
Quoted from spoke:

First off, upper management should never have thrown him under the bus like they did. Why was he the one to present this alone, where was the support? Where was Jack or Joe or Pat or Keith? I find it hard to believe that they did not know this was going to blow up big and ugly.
Second, why publish this when they knew he would be at a show with may folks with deposits down, who they had to know were not going to be happy. That is not how you should treat someone, Eric deserves better and to me it only made them look worse (at least folks got a last chance to play with the three concentric disks).
Third, I feel bad for Eric (and Keith) that they can't make this work, I am sure he was proud of it, and it was super cool. I have to think that 99% of the suggestions and alternatives they that have been throw out have already been assessed by the JJP team. I sure hope, that they have spent a lot of time trying to making this work and this was very much a last resort, but again, show a united front, don't take your new hot designer and hang him out to dry.
On a positive note, for those not happy and want to get out, there are quite a few games to look at Iron Maiden, Houdini, TNA . . .

I wouldn't take the video necessarily at face value. I'm not buying reliability issues with the disk, maybe the trunk though. I think this is purely cost cutting and since it is a major change in direction for the game, the msg should have come from the captain of the ship and that is Jack himself. Easy to use reliability as an excuse but cost cutting excuse would further enfuriate everyone.

The Captain always goes down with the ship! Arghhhh! No parlay for you! Lol☠️

#448 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I wouldn't take the video necessarily at face value. I'm not buying reliability issues with the disk, maybe the trunk though. I think this is purely cost cutting and since it is a major change in direction for the game, the msg should have come from the captain of the ship and that is Jack himself. Easy to use reliability as an excuse but cost cutting excuse would further enfuriate everyone.
The Captain always goes down with the ship! Arghhhh! No parlay for you! Lol☠️

They still have the disks shown and listed on their website. Maybe there is hope....

#449 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yeah or two dozen James Bond, with a lot of stinkers

How dare you insult Moonraker!

#450 1 year ago

This is the equivalent of management sitting around the table at lunch and saying something like...

“Hey guys, why don’t we try sticking a fork in our eyeball and see how it feels”

“No, better yet, why don’t we send Eric out there to poke our customers in the eye and call it a minor tweak”

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