(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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#351 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Even if it’s a Vault?

Oh it's not that. I heard not MB either. I'm in a holding pattern for the announcement.

#352 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Interesting indeed.
Maybe they found out it just costs too much to manufacture?
They would not admit this so it is just pure speculation.

Then at least give it to the CE buyers?

Problem with game companies being transparent is that it just tends to cause them more harm then good.

We as consumers end up with enough information to do harm to the brand but not enough information to see the forest from the trees.

And in a worst case scenario the developers announce cool shit and then take that cool shit away.

#353 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

Very cool tech - free form displays! But years away as mentioned in the video

Slot machines have been using them for almost two years.

#354 1 year ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Then at least give it to the CE buyers?
Problem with game companies being transparent is that it just tends to cause them more harm then good.
We as consumers end up with enough information to do harm to the brand but not enough information to see the forest from the trees.
And in a worst case scenario the developers announce cool shit and then take that cool shit away.

Transparency is always good but I’m raising the big BS flag on the disc. As someone else said previously, I think this is a cost or parts availability issue.

All videos seem to indicate the disc has been pretty reliable to date. The trunk maybe not but I think that could be fixed pretty easily.

I think they just want to start producing and selling at OUR cost to start capitalizing on their investment in this title.

Not cool!

#355 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I think they just want to start producing and selling at OUR cost to start capitalizing on their investment in this title.

Could be. I agree the whole thing smells a bit fishy.
Imagine a Black Pearl Edition a couple of years down the road including the (new and improved) original spinning disc.

#356 1 year ago
Quoted from fishbone:

Could be. I agree the whole thing smells a bit fishy.
Imagine a Black Pearl Edition a couple of years down the road including the (new and improved) original spinning disc.

This would be the icing on the cake and would seriously piss original buyers off.

#357 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

last minute band aid

It going to be one expensive band aid!

#358 1 year ago

I wonder if lighting a spinning disk suffered from problems with the slip rings?

If so I would try a LiPo or NiMH or ? battery in the disk with inductive loop charging from a fixed position when it isn't spinning which would be most of the time.

Should I patent that right now? Think so! (r)

#359 1 year ago

POTC was heralded, in spite of the price and theme, because it was packed. Taking out features, even something as trivial as a shutting treasure chest (which was pretty cool imo), on a game this expensive just doesn't seem like the right move.

-1
#360 1 year ago

So in 1990 Whirlwind could do three spinning disks and they are still around today. But 18 years later we can no longer make them reliable?

11
#361 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

So in 1990 Whirlwind could do three spinning disks and they are still around today. But 18 years later we can no longer make them reliable?

To be fair, that is very different from what JJP was trying to do with concentric rings/disk and controlled lighted inserts.

#362 1 year ago

I loved the spinning discs. It was better than the compass and even the rocking ship.

I hope they can revisit the spinning discs. Or keep it on the LE. Maybe make it an aftermarket upgrade. Perhaps they could write a warranty clause keeping this mech's parts under warranty longer, if it's a HUO machine. I love playing the machine at Level 257 in Schaumburg, IL.

#363 1 year ago
Quoted from Draegermeister:

I loved the spinning discs. It was better than the compass and even the rocking ship.
I hope they can revisit the spinning discs. Or keep it on the LE. Maybe make it an aftermarket upgrade. Perhaps they could write a warranty clause keeping this mech's parts under warranty longer, if it's a HUO machine. I love playing the machine at Level 257 in Schaumburg, IL.

The discs did make some noise but I would rather have them with the noise. They said in videos that they were reliable and don’t recall seeing any sort of malfunction of them.

I’ll take my chances on huo with discs holding up fine. On location maybe offer the alternate disc for the operator.

I would be ok replacing the disc mech after it wears out, things do wear out. JJP can sell replacement kits.

I’m sure this would option would be accepted by most of us.

#364 1 year ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

To be fair, that is very different from what JJP was trying to do with concentric rings/disk and controlled lighted inserts.

To be fair 18 years of advancement "should" make that pretty easy. Clearly there has been little real advancement in pinball is my point. We have better lighting and better video...and in some cases deeper code.

#365 1 year ago

I'm curious how JJP saw this playing out at the board meeting.

#366 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There's no point in having the large single disk act like an inferior version of what once was which will be replicated virtually on the LCD.

Yes exactly!!

Moreover, it won't even be a replica but look totally different! I think terrible to see two versions of the same thing at the same time so there has to be another way. Last minute hackorama doesn't cut it for JJP, the leader in boutique pinball.

#367 1 year ago

Now we have to re-evaluate (once the final product is shown) if we still want to purchase this game with the changes made. It's not changing in price and they aren't going back. So it's like starting over again on the decision, except now we know it was supposed to be better.

I am disappointed and hope JJP gets better at marketing in the future.

Do you think Eric would have designed this game with a single, huge spinning disc as the center focal point of the playfield if the idea for 3 never came about? This game has so many stellar features and I dont think the NGG/Twister/Whirlwind disc would have been considered.

This game has been worked on for a couple years and the discs were not wearing out in testing. Only thing I heard was the coding for the awards to make sense was tricky to figure out. Idc about the noise they made. So why is it being removed?

I hope we hear on Wednesday:
1. Why the discs weren't going to work.
2. How the new disc will work in terms of gameplay (the concentric discs made the ball direction unpredictable and with the ability to bump save on both outlanes, it made this widebody fast and fun)
3. Why they can't use a separate mech/opto for the chest lid to open and shut, instead of putting it all on the forked diverter.
3. Address whether anything else will be added or any change in pricing (highly doubt it for either).

What exacerbates the disappointment here is that with radcals and shipping, this game costs $10,300.00 and was first said to ship out between January and March. Everybody has to re-evaluate the worth of this title and if moving forward with it, will have to overcome the compromises being made here.

#368 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

I'm curious how JJP saw this playing out at the board meeting.

JJP needs to come out and address these rumors and speculation. Seems to be quite a few unhappy potential customers.

#369 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

So in 1990 Whirlwind could do three spinning disks and they are still around today. But 18 years later we can no longer make them reliable?

Sealed bearings are so great today compared to 30 years ago, that they should be able to inexpensively build one that could run for decades without service.

Concentric gearing has been around since the 1600s so it ain't rocket science.....

#370 1 year ago

Just another thought

We all assume because of the hype on pinside that sales were going to be strong but perhaps the pre-order numbers are much lower than we realize and JJP expected and are now in cost cutting mode due to length of development and cost of licensing. Most folks weren’t happy initially with another POTC so maybe the orders are falling short.

Just thinking out loud as this all makes no sense and am quite perplexed!

#371 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I told Joe i was doubtful as of right now but I'm gonna watch the stream and keep an open mind.
I'll probably roll those $$ over to CGC and its next title and save $$ at the same time. I love my AFMRLE

i would not commit to ce. resale on that model is gonna tank because of this. spend 12,500 and i can see you having a hard time getting 10,000. now i know you arent in this for resale but you can always get an le.

#372 1 year ago
Quoted from robotron:

i would not commit to ce. resale on that model is gonna tank because of this. spend 12,500 and i can see you having a hard time getting 10,000. now i know you arent in this for resale but you can always get an le.

I think resales will be very difficult as people wait to see if a Black Pearl special edition is looming on the horizon. Remember how angry WOZ LE buyers got when WOZRR was announced. If something like that were to happen again, adios to JJP.
POTC has to be a single version release with its attendant CE, LE, & standard models. If they need more time to do that, fine but do it right.

11
#373 1 year ago

Complex rings side... thinking more about the chest...

What alternate reality am I living in that JJP cannot close a chest. AS does it and Houdini does it and JJP cannot do it? The company that made WOZ?

Somethings just really off here - this is very unlike the JJP I love. This is a big clue that this is cost related. Not willing to make it right because of money/time constraints so I don't buy the 'we can't do it so pulled the plug' line.

#closethechest

#374 1 year ago
Quoted from robotron:

i would not commit to ce. resale on that model is gonna tank because of this. spend 12,500 and i can see you having a hard time getting 10,000. now i know you arent in this for resale but you can always get an le.

Totally agree.

I have $$ on deposit with Joe.

Looks like it’s going to CGC now

No rush though.

Have to believe JJP will reverse course here. This is a blunder of MAJOR proportions

Given their track record with Woz RR and Hobbit Arrow might as well wait for Black Pearl edition

#375 1 year ago

Has anybody thought of the fact that the game needs to know excactly WHERE the spinning discs have stopped in order to be able to give the appropriate award ? Maybe that has something to do with this decision as we yet have never seen the award system work. They also did not explain that when showing the mechanism as far as I can remember.

Anyone have any info on that ?

#376 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Has anybody thought of the fact that the game needs to know excactly WHERE the spinning discs have stopped in order to be able to give the appropriate award ? Maybe that has something to do with this decision as we yet have never seen the award system work. They also did not explain that when showing the mechanism as far as I can remember.
Anyone have any info on that ?

Yes. I mentioned it in my previous post that nobody read bc its probably too long. From the streams it was said that coding had not been figured out yet to award the appropriate awards.

#377 1 year ago

OK started a poll - please vote:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll#post-4340983

JJP needs our support!

#378 1 year ago

I have wanted to buy a JJP and I was asked early on if I wanted to deposit money.
Thinking finally a theme I could enjoy on a game built like a tank, way to go JJP.
The the history lesson kept repeating in my head, remember woz and TH preorders tom foolery when delivery time came.
Thinking history may repeat I declined based on more actors signing up for true call outs.

The more I watched the feeds the more I wanted this game, so as far as picking out what color powder I would put on a standard.
I might still jump in with the cost cutting moves (IMO) but not at the same price...thats silly to even ask (again IMO).

Reminds me of the Woz Printed cabs being cut and decals replacing them and sold at the same cost.

I hope they spin around and go back to the three discs and stop this three ring circus. (puns intended ).
Good news is we have many more options these days as to who gets our money.

JJP ya made a great looking game- fix the issues and bring on Toy Story.

#379 1 year ago
Quoted from Zavadoza:

Yes. I mentioned it in my previous post that nobody read bc its probably too long. From the streams it was said that coding had not been figured out yet to award the appropriate awards.

I was not talking about the coding, that is quite simple. What I meant was: how does the machine know what award is showing on the playfield. there has to be something in the hardware that reports the position of the discs, otherwise it cannot be coded at all.

edit: I went back and re-read your post as I did read it and I think we are talking about the same thing. But I did not mean the coding, but the physical way that the code knows what is happening on the playfield.

#380 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

I was not talking about the coding, that is quite simple. What I meant was: how does the machine know what award is showing on the playfield. there has to be something in the hardware that reports the position of the discs, otherwise it cannot be coded at all.
edit: I went back and re-read your post as I did read it and I think we are talking about the same thing. But I did not mean the coding, but the physical way that the code knows what is happening on the playfield.

Couldn't each disk be driven by stepper motors...similar to how slot machines operate?

#381 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

Couldn't each disk be driven by stepper motors...similar to how slot machines operate?

That would be an option, but on the video of the mech I saw only normal motors. Also, steppers that report back their position are expensive as hell. And that would also need the appropriate controller that is not cheap.

#382 1 year ago

I believe it uses optos?

#383 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I believe it uses optos?

An opto is nothing more than a contactless switch. It could tell one position of the disc but not more than that. Also I did not see opto's on the underside of the mech and there should also be pins on the discs to interrupt the optos.

#384 1 year ago
Quoted from arcadem:

I think resales will be very difficult as people wait to see if a Black Pearl special edition is looming on the horizon. Remember how angry WOZ LE buyers got when WOZRR was announced. If something like that were to happen again, adios to JJP.
POTC has to be a single version release with its attendant CE, LE, & standard models. If they need more time to do that, fine but do it right.

LOL, if you think there WON’T be another special art/trim package down the line then you’re a fool. It’s almost a guarantee! Black Pearl edition with black balls and black armor, ship combat art on cab sides. It’s a no brainer.

#385 1 year ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL, if you think there WON’T be another special art/trim package down the line then you’re a fool. It’s almost a guarantee! Black Pearl edition with black balls and black armor, ship combat art on cab sides. It’s a no brainer.

If they also black out the pizza with that edition, I'm back in.

#386 1 year ago

#Bringbackthemechs

5A40E9F0-3B5B-4B91-A3C9-518FFED67F94 (resized).jpeg

#387 1 year ago

17 thumbs up for the OP's post. Man you guys have way to much money and patience for this hobby....

#388 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbu64:

If they also black out the pizza with that edition, I'm back in.

I read this whole thread from start to end and this single comment made the whole(sad) thing worth it. Thank you for a good out loud laugh!

P.S. If they do all that I'm in too!

33
#389 1 year ago

Sorry, couldn't resist.

jjp pizza (resized).jpg

#390 1 year ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL, if you think there WON’T be another special art/trim package down the line then you’re a fool. It’s almost a guarantee! Black Pearl edition with black balls and black armor, ship combat art on cab sides. It’s a no brainer.

Funny stuff they have to sell out for a new edition DI has not sold out what makes you think POTC will

#391 1 year ago

If only the designer was a mechanical engineer or something...

#392 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

Funny stuff they have to sell out for a new edition DI has not sold out what makes you think POTC will

Cant sell out of unlimited runs... i believe they are over 2000 dile sold tho which is pretty good imo.

#393 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

... Also, steppers that report back their position are expensive as hell. And that would also need the appropriate controller that is not cheap.

Steppers don't need position feedback, they move one "position" for each command. Stepper controllers are a dime a dozen these days. They get used in every 3D printer, LASER cutting gantry, X-Carve or Carvey box, pick & place machine etc. I haven't personally made the step to use those instead of normal DC motors with quadrature encoders yet but that day is coming.

32
#394 1 year ago

JJP has proposed a cut and run solution: replace the most complex piece of hardware with a simple motor. Reasons given is that original design at high speeds is unreliable and too loud and a simple motor will be reliable and quieter. Since they are willing to make this very drastic move at any expense to their reputation, I'm assuming two things for now:

1. We're not getting the three disks spinning at high rate as originally proposed.

2. Although looking a bit suspicious right now, im still taking their word that the reason it's being cut is THAT IT DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY AT HIGH SPEED AND IS TOO LOUD.

Many good alternative solutions have been proposed. Here is a poll:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll

For me the obvious solution is that the hardware remain exactly as is EXCEPT that it's initial intended purpose be modified (just moving slowly now as a cool toy to show progress on lining up interlocking rings). Here are reasons why:

1. The device has been tested at high speed for a long time. So if it operated only at low speeds now, it will probably be the most reliable device ever made (if high speed was the main reliability issue).

2. Yes, we give up the fact that the rings put action on the ball but I'm OK with that. But remember that often not all 3 rings were rotating. In fact, when spinning fast one could not see much of anything and they weren't spinning that fast in the movie anyway. What was cool was SEEING the 3 rings. It's a cool piece of hardware that just looks cool! So, like most of us who voted, it's not a downgrade to have this piece of hardware stay as is just moving slowly, rings moving around slowly while playing.

3. What we gain is that this cool piece of hardware can now be tied even more into gameplay! Remember that each disk can be moved to any orientation by software and the game always knows the orientation of each disk. This allows for making shots that turn the discs on the playfield and the goal is to reach certain configurations for jackpots or finishing modes etc. certain shots could change directions of rings or pops could randomly change directions etc. Making lit shots turns a ring to left or right and you make shots to get rings aligned as you need - exactly like the puzzle theme of movie! In my view this is even better than having just spin a high speed where you can't see anything and does not add much to gameplay (except action on the ball).

4. JJP is obviously in rush mode now and are no longer willing to wait it out. This proposal of using the original hardware just at very slow speeds is best here. No changes needed at all - leave everything exactly as is - only code has to change. In the worst case ship the game with limited integrations as described in 3. and update code later - we will understand.

5. Quiet as a mouse if each ring only moving a bit here and there one or a few positions at a time.

It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water here - the hardware is very cool even if not spinning at high speed. I have actually come to think it's better slower - to have it more integrated into gameplay, always visible because not blurred away and closer to movie movement, and now reliable and silent.

If the real reasons for completely cutting this hardware are indeed high speed reliability and it being too loud, then this low-speed original hardware solution checks all boxes and is the obvious way forward. We have voted on it as well (poll above) and the majority prefer this over replacing with the single stock motor.

If they don't go with this most obvious compromise then clearly we know that there are other reasons being kept from us and JJP are not being forthright here to their loyal supporters.

If there is anyone who doesn't think this is a good compromise (especially since zero changes to hardware have to be made), please post below and let's hash this out. We are cheering Eric and JJP on here and hope they make the right decisions for this game to reach its greatest potential!

#395 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

JJP has proposed a cut and run solution: replace the most complex piece of hardware with a simple motor. Reasons given is that original design at high speeds is unreliable and too loud and a simple motor will be reliable and quieter. Since they are willing to make this very drastic move at any expense to their reputation, I'm assuming two things for now:
1. We're not getting the three disks spinning at high rate as originally proposed.
2. Although looking a bit suspicious right now, im still taking their word that the reason it's being cut is THAT IT DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY AT HIGH SPEED AND IS TOO LOUD.
Many good alternative solutions have been proposed. Here is a poll:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll
For me the obvious solution is that the hardware remain exactly as is EXCEPT that it's initial intended purpose be modified (just moving slowly now as a cool toy to show progress on lining up interlocking rings). Here are reasons why:
1. The device has been tested at high speed for a long time. So if it operated only at low speeds now, it will probably be the most reliable device ever made (if high speed was the main reliability issue).
2. Yes, we give up the fact that the rings put action on the ball but I'm OK with that. But remember that often not all 3 rings were rotating. In fact, when spinning fast one could not see much of anything and they weren't spinning that fast in the movie anyway. What was cool was SEEING the 3 rings. It's a cool piece of hardware that just looks cool! So, like most of us who voted, it's not a downgrade to have this piece of hardware stay as is just moving slowly, rings moving around slowly while playing.
3. What we gain is that this cool piece of hardware can now be tied even more into gameplay! Remember that each disk can be moved to any orientation by software and the game always knows the orientation of each disk. This allows for making shots that turn the discs on the playfield and the goal is to reach certain configurations for jackpots or finishing modes etc. certain shots could change directions of rings or pops could randomly change directions etc. Making lit shots turns a ring to left or right and you make shots to get rings aligned as you need - exactly like the puzzle theme of movie! In my view this is even better than having just spin a high speed where you can't see anything and does not add much to gameplay (except action on the ball).
4. JJP is obviously in rush mode now and are no longer willing to wait it out. This proposal of using the original hardware just at very slow speeds is best here. No changes needed at all - leave everything exactly as is - only code has to change. In the worst case ship the game with limited integrations as described in 3. and update code later - we will understand.
5. Quiet as a mouse if each ring only moving a bit here and there one or a few positions at a time.
It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water here - the hardware is very cool even if not spinning at high speed. I have actually come to think it's better slower - to have it more integrated into gameplay, always visible because not blurred away and closer to movie movement, and now reliable and silent.
If the real reasons for completely cutting this hardware are indeed high speed reliability and it being too loud, then this low-speed original hardware solution checks all boxes and is the obvious way forward. We have voted on it as well (poll above) and the majority prefer this over replacing with the single stock motor.
If they don't go with this most obvious compromise then clearly we know that there are other reasons being kept from us and JJP are not being forthright here to their loyal supporters.

If the discs spin at a slower speed, couldn’t the disks decals be made out of a slightly more gritty material to put some more english on the ball? I’m thinking like the original potc disc.

#396 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

YES! That looks very nice and far more interesting and interactive then 1 giant disk.

No, that’s a terrible idea. The Mech was supposed to be the ringed map to the fountain of youth. Three separate circles makes no sense.

#397 1 year ago

They have one giant hole to fill so 3 seperate discs are not an option...

#398 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

JJP has proposed a cut and run solution: replace the most complex piece of hardware with a simple motor. Reasons given is that original design at high speeds is unreliable and too loud and a simple motor will be reliable and quieter. Since they are willing to make this very drastic move at any expense to their reputation, I'm assuming two things for now:
1. We're not getting the three disks spinning at high rate as originally proposed.
2. Although looking a bit suspicious right now, im still taking their word that the reason it's being cut is THAT IT DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY AT HIGH SPEED AND IS TOO LOUD.
Many good alternative solutions have been proposed. Here is a poll:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll
For me the obvious solution is that the hardware remain exactly as is EXCEPT that it's initial intended purpose be modified (just moving slowly now as a cool toy to show progress on lining up interlocking rings). Here are reasons why:
1. The device has been tested at high speed for a long time. So if it operated only at low speeds now, it will probably be the most reliable device ever made (if high speed was the main reliability issue).
2. Yes, we give up the fact that the rings put action on the ball but I'm OK with that. But remember that often not all 3 rings were rotating. In fact, when spinning fast one could not see much of anything and they weren't spinning that fast in the movie anyway. What was cool was SEEING the 3 rings. It's a cool piece of hardware that just looks cool! So, like most of us who voted, it's not a downgrade to have this piece of hardware stay as is just moving slowly, rings moving around slowly while playing.
3. What we gain is that this cool piece of hardware can now be tied even more into gameplay! Remember that each disk can be moved to any orientation by software and the game always knows the orientation of each disk. This allows for making shots that turn the discs on the playfield and the goal is to reach certain configurations for jackpots or finishing modes etc. certain shots could change directions of rings or pops could randomly change directions etc. Making lit shots turns a ring to left or right and you make shots to get rings aligned as you need - exactly like the puzzle theme of movie! In my view this is even better than having just spin a high speed where you can't see anything and does not add much to gameplay (except action on the ball).
4. JJP is obviously in rush mode now and are no longer willing to wait it out. This proposal of using the original hardware just at very slow speeds is best here. No changes needed at all - leave everything exactly as is - only code has to change. In the worst case ship the game with limited integrations as described in 3. and update code later - we will understand.
5. Quiet as a mouse if each ring only moving a bit here and there one or a few positions at a time.
It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water here - the hardware is very cool even if not spinning at high speed. I have actually come to think it's better slower - to have it more integrated into gameplay, always visible because not blurred away and closer to movie movement, and now reliable and silent.
If the real reasons for completely cutting this hardware are indeed high speed reliability and it being too loud, then this low-speed original hardware solution checks all boxes and is the obvious way forward. We have voted on it as well (poll above) and the majority prefer this over replacing with the single stock motor.
If they don't go with this most obvious compromise then clearly we know that there are other reasons being kept from us and JJP are not being forthright here to their loyal supporters.

Man, people are really taking this hard. I think this post was longer than the internship paper I wrote back in college.

So everyone WANTS the Fountain of Youth discs. JJP needs to ship pins, or at the very least, get some cash while it's being worked out. Right now, deposits are refundable.

How many would pony up 1/2 of their full pin price, non-refundable, for JJP to figure the disc issue out?

Stipulation is it will require JJP to deliver the original 3 disc design.

Who's in THEN?

HALF (resized).jpg

#399 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

JJP has proposed a cut and run solution: replace the most complex piece of hardware with a simple motor. Reasons given is that original design at high speeds is unreliable and too loud and a simple motor will be reliable and quieter. Since they are willing to make this very drastic move at any expense to their reputation, I'm assuming two things for now:
1. We're not getting the three disks spinning at high rate as originally proposed.
2. Although looking a bit suspicious right now, im still taking their word that the reason it's being cut is THAT IT DOESN'T WORK RELIABLY AT HIGH SPEED AND IS TOO LOUD.
Many good alternative solutions have been proposed. Here is a poll:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll
For me the obvious solution is that the hardware remain exactly as is EXCEPT that it's initial intended purpose be modified (just moving slowly now as a cool toy to show progress on lining up interlocking rings). Here are reasons why:
1. The device has been tested at high speed for a long time. So if it operated only at low speeds now, it will probably be the most reliable device ever made (if high speed was the main reliability issue).
2. Yes, we give up the fact that the rings put action on the ball but I'm OK with that. But remember that often not all 3 rings were rotating. In fact, when spinning fast one could not see much of anything and they weren't spinning that fast in the movie anyway. What was cool was SEEING the 3 rings. It's a cool piece of hardware that just looks cool! So, like most of us who voted, it's not a downgrade to have this piece of hardware stay as is just moving slowly, rings moving around slowly while playing.
3. What we gain is that this cool piece of hardware can now be tied even more into gameplay! Remember that each disk can be moved to any orientation by software and the game always knows the orientation of each disk. This allows for making shots that turn the discs on the playfield and the goal is to reach certain configurations for jackpots or finishing modes etc. certain shots could change directions of rings or pops could randomly change directions etc. Making lit shots turns a ring to left or right and you make shots to get rings aligned as you need - exactly like the puzzle theme of movie! In my view this is even better than having just spin a high speed where you can't see anything and does not add much to gameplay (except action on the ball).
4. JJP is obviously in rush mode now and are no longer willing to wait it out. This proposal of using the original hardware just at very slow speeds is best here. No changes needed at all - leave everything exactly as is - only code has to change. In the worst case ship the game with limited integrations as described in 3. and update code later - we will understand.
5. Quiet as a mouse if each ring only moving a bit here and there one or a few positions at a time.
It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water here - the hardware is very cool even if not spinning at high speed. I have actually come to think it's better slower - to have it more integrated into gameplay, always visible because not blurred away and closer to movie movement, and now reliable and silent.
If the real reasons for completely cutting this hardware are indeed high speed reliability and it being too loud, then this low-speed original hardware solution checks all boxes and is the obvious way forward. We have voted on it as well (poll above) and the majority prefer this over replacing with the single stock motor.
If they don't go with this most obvious compromise then clearly we know that there are other reasons being kept from us and JJP are not being forthright here to their loyal supporters.
If there is anyone who doesn't think this is a good compromise (especially since zero changes to hardware have to be made), please post below and let's hash this out. We are cheering Eric and JJP on here and hope they make the right decisions for this game to reach its greatest potential!

I would go for this. Unfortunately, what are the chances that this wasn't discussed at some point already at JJP?

#400 1 year ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

Man, people are really taking this hard. I think this post was longer than the internship paper I wrote back in college.
So everyone WANTS the Fountain of Youth discs. JJP needs to ship pins, or at the very least, get some cash while it's being worked out. Right now, deposits are refundable.
How many would pony up 1/2 of their full pin price, non-refundable, for JJP to figure the disc issue out?
Stipulation is it will require JJP to deliver the original 3 disc design.
Who's in THEN?

If there was a guarantee that they will work this out and make it work as intended I would have no problem paying half or even full payment.
Problem is trust has been eroded and Pandora’s box has been opened. Seems like that can’t guarantee anything so I doubt anyone has enough faith in them to pay in full.

The announcement still strikes me as odd. Almost seemed like a generic YouTube video filmed from home. That is not normal operating practice for any company. The msg should have come from Jack.

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