(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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19
#201 1 year ago

Everyone saying that the increased reliability is enough consolation for the downgrade really need to re-watch the reveal and subsequent videos to see how big a deal the 3 discs actually were as a selling feature. The point is that you're not getting as much for the money anymore.

#202 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

Everyone saying that the increased reliability is enough consolation for the downgrade really need to re-watch the reveal and subsequent videos to see how big a deal the 3 discs actually were as a selling feature. The point is that you're not getting as much for the money anymore.

Yup, spot on. That's the main issue. Many didn't have an issue with no movie actor audio and movie actor video or even the price due to unique features like the 3x spinning disk mech. Now that's gone and people are upset and rightfully so after watching and playing games with the feature for 6+ months.

Something needs to be done by JJP to make up for taking this feature out of the game.

#203 1 year ago
Quoted from jar155:

Features get cut all time, but usually not after so many people have played them.

and preordered the game based on the features.

#204 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Including the ship in a bottle topper for LE owners would be a fair trade off.

It won't happen, but at least you've taken a break from your ridiculous Stern bashing thread posts.

Secondly, the whole idea of a CE is already in question now.

As for dropping the price? That's idiotic, people want the higher level of pinball, not a stripped down pro version. $$ isn't the issue, get it?

And now you have an option, just don't buy it.

All your whining isn't going to change a thing. Wait until the Wednesday stream and let's see what is going to be the path forward.

And it's obvious when you take features away from an already VERY high priced pin it's not going to go over well with anybody!

#205 1 year ago

I’m disappointed too, but I’m glad they do the diligence to test in the field before mass production. As heartbreaking as it is, I think it was the right call. I’m still in.

#206 1 year ago

Reliability is not an added feature- it was assumed when buyers put deposits down so let's let people be a bit disappointed. You know sometimes people are dissapointed because they are just dissapointed in something that is disappointing not because we're "pinsiders". I'm sure JJP is dissapointed too.

#207 1 year ago
Quoted from Vino:

Not silly to JJP and deposits out.
The unfortunate truth is this game was revealed too early.

Actually, this is better. They caught some issues ahead of production and they're not putting problems in owners' homes. I wish Ghostbusters had more time to test and bake. That was a maintenance nightmare for me.

Quoted from pipes:

Everyone saying that the increased reliability is enough consolation for the downgrade really need to re-watch the reveal and subsequent videos to see how big a deal the 3 discs actually were as a selling feature. The point is that you're not getting as much for the money anymore.

Watch all the video you want. I played it a bunch. But whatever.

#208 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It won't happen, but at least you've taken a break from your ridiculous Stern bashing thread posts.
Secondly, the whole idea of a CE is already in question now.
As for dropping the price? That's idiotic, people want the higher level of pinball, not a stripped down pro version. $$ isn't the issue, get it?
And now you have an option, just don't buy it.
All your whining isn't going to change a thing. Wait until the Wednesday stream and let's see what is going to be the path forward.

Hi iceman, I've had you on ignore for the past 6+ months due to your insults but thought that may have been you, lol.

What's considered Stern bashing? Criticising splitting cabinets, poor quality playfields, and waiting 12+ months for code updates? That's normal when spending upwards of $10k on NIB pins regardless of the manufacturer. I've complimented Stern a ton and last year bought a NIB Ghostbusters Premium and this past December a Star Wars LE. So stop with the fake news.

I also like my new Stern hat Stern is great!

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37
#209 1 year ago

If it's any consolation, they are making a remake of Theater Of Magic where the Trunk does not spin and the Trapdoor does not open.

This will make it much more reliable.

#210 1 year ago

I'm not going to keep telling people not to be upset though. Big money in play with these things these days. Whatever tilts your scale is up to you. But as far as playability and maintenance goes, this is a positive step. It's just a bummer for aesthetic appeal.

#211 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If it's any consolation, they are making a remake of Theater Of Magic where the Trunk does not spin and the Trapdoor does not open.
This will make it much more reliable.

Now that's innovation!

#212 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

You realize that there's coding that goes along with the 3 disc mech right? It's not just as simple as swapping them out. What you're suggesting sounds like an absolute nightmare for JJP. Much worse than the nightmare they woke up to this morning.

You keep the code in for both. Plug and play is not something new. It's been around in consumer tech for some time. Pinball needs to catch up.

#213 1 year ago
Quoted from jar155:

I'm not going to keep telling people not to be upset though. Big money in play with these things these days. Whatever tilts your scale is up to you. But as far as playability and maintenance goes, this is a positive step. It's just a bummer for aesthetic appeal.

Yeah good point. If map mechs started failing left and right 6 months down the road it would be a bigger headache.

I think the map award effect will be more impressive being on a 27" LCD versus on the playfield where only the player could really read it.

#214 1 year ago

In 1969, the US put a man on the moon. JJP should be able to engineer a working spinning disc assembly in 2018. Not that they have to, but because it's a challenge to be conquered. Because the game needs them. Fix that and JJPOTC might be more sophisticated than landing the first Apollo. #nevergiveupon3spinningdiscsjjppotc

#215 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

In 1969, the US put a man on the moon. JJP should be able to engineer a working spinning disk assembly in 2018. Not that they have to, but because it's a challenge to be conquered. Fix that and JJPOTC might be more sophisticated than landing the Apollo on the moon. #nevergiveuponjjpotc

John F. Kennedy — 'We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."
Good thought Jeff.
JJP, LETS MAKE THIS WORK, PINBALL IS HARD, and your charging a ton of money.

#216 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Hi iceman, I've had you on ignore for the past 6+ months due to your insults but thought that may have been you, lol.

What's considered Stern bashing? Criticising splitting cabinets, poor quality playfields, and waiting 12+ months for code updates? That's normal when spending upwards of $10k on NIB pins regardless of the manufacturer. I've complimented Stern a ton and last year bought a NIB Ghostbusters Premium and this past December a Star Wars LE. So stop with the fake news.

Give it a rest man. Your non stop piling on does nothing.

We all get those issues, you are a broken record.

And once again, it appears with IMDN they have hit another home run.

That is part of the issue with JJP, they can't afford to have a hiccup like this when you struggle to produce 1 pin a year.

#217 1 year ago

I think they could deff keep working on it and offer it later as a add on.

14
#218 1 year ago
Quoted from jar155:

I'm not going to keep telling people not to be upset though. Big money in play with these things these days. Whatever tilts your scale is up to you. But as far as playability and maintenance goes, this is a positive step. It's just a bummer for aesthetic appeal.

It was far more than aesthetic appeal for me...I actually play the games....having the innovation AND reliability justified the hefty price tag.

Can't put vaporware on an item, presell it, then take it off. R&D with due diligence should have been established already. Unless it's a coding thing, this is a major deal here....

#219 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

It was far more than aesthetic appeal for me...I actually play the games....having the innovation AND reliability justified the hefty price tag.
Can't put vaporware on an item, presell it, then take it off. R&D with due diligence should have been established already. Unless it's a coding thing, this is a major deal here....

Right on Mark.

It's a shame Eric tried to pass it off as "minor tweaks". The trunk maybe but not a main feature like the spinning discs. It's like selling BM66 and then removing the turntable mech (maybe not quite that bad but....)

#220 1 year ago

It's probably not all bad news for JJP as I'm sure this update video will help boost Dialed In sales a bit.

#221 1 year ago

I don't think I can spend 20k aud and be pissed off. If one disc had of been there from the beginning fair enough but knowing there should be three will always annoy me and what you can't make a lid on a trunk open and close? Some have said to drop the price but at this price point I just wanted the best pin they could make. Other people have said give the topper to le buyers I say no because that's why I payed extra for the ce. I would want a custom shooter rod minimum as compensation. I personally would wait longer for them to get it right rather than loose it. Also have to change the pizza decal looks terrible ,very disappointed. migh get a HUO hobbit and a stern instead

#222 1 year ago

And to be clear...I REALLY, REALLY like Eric, and was super excited for this, his first game ( he was a primary reason of me going for a CE without even touching it). We really went through it w early WOZ, and forever grateful for his (and JJP's) efforts.

I think proper mitigation needed to be in place for a change of this magnitude (maybe there is, but maybe there's not).

Just a sad PB day for me, in this regards....

#223 1 year ago

I have some serious concern about resale value on this title now.
I have an LE on order and all other 3 LE JJP games in my collection.
The unique features kept the game different in my opinion from anything else out there.

With what is now removed and what else is missing with the License Restrictions, It is highly likely the resale value will tank worse then Hobbit.

Opening a Box and loosing $2500-$3000 on this title seems very real to me and very concerning...

I have always rooted for JJP, but this release has really been nothing but a Cluster F...

Yikes....

#224 1 year ago

Disappointed, seriously looking at cancelling CE order.

The spinning discs were a core feature; to remove it now I don’t see justification in the price. Nothing is being added to compensate; put deposit down based on features....

#225 1 year ago

The chest is so lame.

How much money could it really save eliminating the operating lid?

I got this one for $8, and the lid has been operating 24/7 for like nine years, in a harsh, underwater enviroment.

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#226 1 year ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

Opening a Box and loosing $2500-$3000 on this title seems very real to me and very concerning...

Bingo. And it will

Like hobbit, when you’re driving away with it loaded in the back of your car after buying it huo thinking thank goodness I wasn’t that guy

16
#227 1 year ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

The chest is no biggie but changing the disc is pretty darn disappointing. It was more than just a gameplay element but also an exciting visual element with its lit up inserts. Replacing it with an unlit map is sadly a pretty steep downgrade.
Here are some ideas for alternatives:
Make it a spinning LED disc. You could create wild holographic effects with it. When not spinning you see the map graphics, when it spins different animations are played.
Make it a literal liquid maelstrom. Some sealed blue fluid and some lights and you could have an impressive “analog” visual.

This is pretty cool idea actually.

But to my comments toward the topic as a whole.

-People keep saying drop the price. I could care less about saving a $500 or even 1k off. I was paying a premium for the machine because of its innovations. You take all the innovations away and now your in sterns price point. And theres many more titles to choose from then.

-This is a huge mistake. And something "AMAZING" really needs to be added to make up for this.

-The new disc they showed was so bad this seriously seems like a late april fools joke. They cant really be serious with that>>???

PS: For those that arent familiar with the films. The 3 spinning disc was actually a triple spinning map in the film. Theres a reason it spun like that, to mimmick how the map spins in the film. If the new mech only spins as a whole then having the map in the center as a idea in general for the machine no longer makes sense for the theme and is just dumb. So really ditching the 3 discs should mean ditching THE ENTIRE MAP BEING THERE. Because it no longer makes sense for the theme. It would be like them changing the pirates battle ship to a US ARMY Battle ship with machine guns. It just doesnt fit the theme.

JJP PLEASE FIX THIS>

#228 1 year ago

Bad News, I am now out.
I will see what is the final Version be for Order.
Now i think 9,7K Euro for what ?

#229 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It won't happen, but at least you've taken a break from your ridiculous Stern bashing thread posts.
Secondly, the whole idea of a CE is already in question now.
As for dropping the price? That's idiotic, people want the higher level of pinball, not a stripped down pro version. $$ isn't the issue, get it?
And now you have an option, just don't buy it.
All your whining isn't going to change a thing. Wait until the Wednesday stream and let's see what is going to be the path forward.
And it's obvious when you take features away from an already VERY high priced pin it's not going to go over well with anybody!

$$ is the issue to me. I would have ordered a DILE if it were $7500 or probably even $8000. The value is just not there to me to justify paying so much for these games (DILE, JJPPOTCLE, and all LE Sterns over $8000 to date). When you dumb down the features even more that makes it even less likely for me to convince myself to fork over the price I already feel is above the value of the pinball machine.

I can afford whichever game I want but I just feel it is stupid to go overboard on overpriced games when I can get a lot of satisfaction out of other games that cost less, and the extra money I save can go to my second home or a new car.

36
#230 1 year ago

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#231 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The chest is so lame.
How much money could it really save eliminating the operating lid?
I got this one at the Aquarium shop for $8, and the lid has been operating 24/7 for like nine years.

Had nothing to do with money... the lid closed was causing lots of rejected shots .... so they just made it open all the time and now the shot works great.

#232 1 year ago

If Stern does it right now and looks back on quality, they will sell much more than JJP.
I think the Iron Maiden ust has gotten really good and has reinstalled metal ramps.
Here you could have fun with the Pro for less money. If you sell Pro again it will be more tolerable because it is not that high.

#233 1 year ago

I really hope they will revise the price point since removing those two features. The spinning disc for me was an awesome feature. The new artwork on the disc doesn't fit. The opening chest was also cool. I was in before this announcement, now I feel like I've moved in the other direction. Maybe get meeself a MMR. The wind in JJP's sales just died down.

#234 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Had nothing to do with money... the lid closed was causing lots of rejected shots .... so they just made it open all the time and now the shot works great.

What you can't make a ball go into a box?

#235 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

Reliability is not an added feature- it was assumed when buyers put deposits down so let's let people be a bit disappointed. You know sometimes people are dissapointed because they are just dissapointed in something that is disappointing not because we're "pinsiders". I'm sure JJP is dissapointed too.

Jack Sparrow is that you?

#236 1 year ago

I can totally understand people’s disappointment. And JJP really shouldn’t release a game until they know what they’ve got. But let’s not just assume the game sucks now.

Remember STLE? I personally thought the coolest feature in the game was the catapult kicker that was to shoot the ball from the lower left side of the playfield up to the upper right flipper. But guess what? Before the game shipped Stern removed the feature because they couldn’t get it to work. Not sure why, since Fish Tales had that feature 20 years earlier, and so did MM. I guess Gary and Steve and all the other folks at Stern just couldn’t figure it out, so they put in a garden variety vertical upkicker instead, that was not just uninspired -oh, let’s have it feed the left flipper via the i lane - but added absolutely zero to the game. At least STLE had the tinfoil to make up for it.

And speaking of Stern, they aren’t exactly brilliant or innovative in their toy output. The trunk in Aerosmith is cool, but outside of that, they haven’t done much of anything since the Ironmonger.

I hope JJP overcomes this setback. And I also hope they offer a lower price point machine at some point. I’m out at $8k, spinning discs or no spinning discs.

#237 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The chest is so lame.
How much money could it really save eliminating the operating lid?
I got this one at the Aquarium shop for $8, and the lid has been operating 24/7 for like nine years.

Well, have a fork ramp integrated with it, a ball lock mech, ball eject mech, make it so a pinball doesn't break it, then toss in something to automatically open and close it all in a relatively small area and it will become a much more complicated item quickly, lol.

#238 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

What you can't make a ball go into a box?

I guess the way the box was designed caused issues/rejects so they just proped the lid up to solve the issue it seems? Sucks but i thing the map is the much bigger deal here.

#239 1 year ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

$$ is the issue to me. I would have ordered a DILE if it were $7500 or probably even $8000. The value is just not there to me to justify paying so much for these games (DILE, JJPPOTCLE, and all LE Sterns over $8000 to date). When you dumb down the features even more that makes it even less likely for me to convince myself to fork over the price I already feel is above the value of the pinball machine.
I can afford whichever game I want but I just feel it is stupid to go overboard on overpriced games when I can get a lot of satisfaction out of other games that cost less, and the extra money I save can go to my second home or a new car.

I meant to say I was buying the CE for the innovation and collectibility

If they dropped it to $11.5k or $10.5k it wouldn’t make it more desirable without the innovation

JJP can’t seem to compete in the $7-8k arena and make $$. Not enough volume

#240 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

JJP can’t seem to compete in the $7-8k arena and make $$. Not enough volume

Unfortunately, I don't see how their business model will be sustainable long term.

#241 1 year ago

Listen to Eric's words.

He says he is very happy with the change to the chest.

As for the artwork for new disc - just says, 'there it is'.

Hmmm, read into that what you will.

#242 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Listen to Eric's words.
He says he is very happy with the change to the chest.
As for the artwork for new disc - just says, 'there it is'.
Hmmm, read into that what you will.

The life of a pinball designer just realized is what it sounds like to me. I am also an EE and I can't imagine doing pinball design for a living with its mediocre to low pay and frustrating limitations in design, economics, and time constraints.

#243 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I guess the way the box was designed caused issues/rejects so they just proped the lid up to solve the issue it seems? Sucks but i thing the map is the much bigger deal here.

It's all a big deal!

#244 1 year ago

JJP and their A team are all over it.
Thank goodness the B team is not our best option.

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#245 1 year ago

i sincerely feel bad for Eric as he was so enthused about the spinning disc feature as where a lot of us. It was a huge selling feature. If they were going into production soon they would have had to have a bunch of these mechs made already with a huge cost in development. It does seem a shame to just throw in the towel on it unless as someone else said it was a bean counter decision. The cost of the bad press is not to be taken lightly either- they are turning this game from a stud into a dud

#246 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The chest is so lame.
How much money could it really save eliminating the operating lid?
I got this one at the Aquarium shop for $8, and the lid has been operating 24/7 for like nine years.

LMAO!

#247 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

Now that's innovation!

Jack Played it; He Likes it!

14
#248 1 year ago

Here's an option. If people still want the look of the 3 spinning discs then why not put a clear window and LCD to take the place of the mech? No more worrying about parts breaking and keeping them level. I guess the only problem with that might be sourcing the right size and resolution screen. It would look cool and give them a lot of versatility.

#249 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Posted this in another thread.
The new artwork on the spinning disk needs to GO! It's ugly and doesn't blend into the playfield artwork at all. JJP shouldn't even make it look like a map. I think a much better option would be to have it look like a hand drawn maelstrom with coloring that matches the rest of the playfield. Let the spinning map live on through the LCD but disassociate it from the spinning disk.

This is an excellent idea. I could certainly live with this if they also included the ship topper on my already ordered LE. Seems like a fair trade-off. For the CE crowd, lower their price a bit and powder coat their coin doors and shooter rods as concessions/compensations for not having the topper as a CE exclusive. Seems like a much better approach than simply accepting the loss a lot of pre-order sales.

#250 1 year ago

How many moving toys on this machine were there compared to now? (Let's give original spinning disk a weight of 3 and now 1). Ship=1, trunk from 1 to 0, anything else?

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