Chapel Hill, NC
I hope they react and have an announcement on Wednesday regarding Spinnergate.
This was supposed to be my first JJP as well
(Topic ID: 214634)
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Pirates of the Caribbean
Jersey Jack, 2018-
Pirates of the Caribbean (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2018
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Quoted from DerGoetz:Spinnergate.
This was supposed to be my first JJP as well
Spinnergate! 
I deff think the key to this game is the spinners, not so much the chest. We have faith in you Eric you can do better than the spinning pizza!
Was going to be my first JJP and NIB to boot!!!!
Quoted from Coz:We love our Dialed In. Get a Dialed In now, wait on POTC
Perhaps the most reasonable reply in this thread.
Waaay to practical. 
Seriously though, I think DI is a great game that has stood up well with most of the bugs flushed out. I would really, really like one. I’ve decided, for now, the JJP price point is more than I want to spend NIB. I have every intention of buying one used in the next year or two.
POTC looks really great, just not my type of game. I think it was announced too early and we are seeing some the editing and revision process out in the open.
Best of luck to Eric and the team!
Well I still think it's commendable that JJP do all this testing to ensure long-term reliability and it's really the only way you can do it when trying to innovate to this level. Anyone buying this game will get something solid.
But here we see the downside of this approach and the reason why other companies tend to be a bit more conservative. Also a lesson is to dial back a bit on all the interviews and fanfare celebrations before production is under way.
In any case, we love the fresh energy Eric and happy there's a company still taking risks like this. You can't have it both ways. This is a definite bummer for sure and doesn't look good (especially an opening trunk which has been done well lately by 2 competitors one of them shooting the ball across the length of the entire playfield) but solder on - it's still a great game and love JJP!
Truly unfortunate for JJP, Eric, and the POTC pre-orderers. However, JJP made the right call here.
It's still going to be an incredible game.
Quoted from spinal:You can't have it both ways.
I beg to differ...
Seems like they used the old government trick of announcing shitty news late Friday afternoon so they can have a few days to review the feedback and let a little heat blow over...
As I mentioned in another thread I think JJP needs to offer at least $500 in value now somewhere else in the game. They are going from offering a custom designed 3x spinning disk with 3 motors and LED's with a lot of software work behind it to something like below...
If JJP wants to get this game into production asap I don't expect any new mechs being put into the game. However, there's a few other things that could be done to appease customers.
1. Get rid of the apron decal and replace it with a wooden apron cover similar to WOZ with a nice clear coat and spot for a plaque with game number.
2. Lower the price of the game $500
3. Unlikely but include the ship in a bottle topper for LE owners and then add more to CE games
4. Powder coat the coin door and shooter on LE and CE games
JJP map disk 1
disk_2 (resized).JPG
JJP map disk 2
disk_1 (resized).JPG
Traditional spinning disk mech (from Tron in the case below)
disk_3 (resized).JPG
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Meanwhile, back at the Stern HQ...
Lol. Stern shouldn't get too excited as the new rotating map animations blow anything away that Stern has done on all of their LCD based games. Stern hasn't come close to offering animations at that level of quality.
Starts right at
One thing that can be overlooked when factoring the value of a game is the software development costs going into. JJP's Pirates easily has 3x, maybe 5x, the amount of software, animation and music work going into it compared to a traditional Stern game.
re. post #159 and the Friday night news ploy, I had the same exact thought. What really concerns me is that I got in early on the game for an LE (hate the 'sponge Bob' CE) but I was concerned that maybe I should have waited for the kinks were worked out before buying. I expressed those concerns previously in my earlier post #80; This announcement raises my concerns once more. I see where some posters are suggesting a price cut now and having JJP offering a chance to buy an upgrade kit later (if offered) like what was done with the WOZ lighting problem. That is a no go idea for me. I think I will cancel and revisit making a purchase at a later date once the game has been out for awhile and all issues are correctly resolved. I did that for my WOZRR and THBA and I have no regrets there.
LOL you guys haven't even seen the new mech's in action and you're already crying wolf. Give it some time, let's see how this plays out and more importantly how the new disk is in actual game play; I know, what a concept.
Start at 41 minutes.
Certainly looks expensive but if used infrequently, surely it would be fairly reliable?
Newport
Quoted from Eskaybee:LOL you guys haven't even seen the new mech's in action and you're already crying wolf. Give it some time, let's see how this plays out and more importantly how the new disk is in actual game play; I know, what a concept.
We already know how it works, because it's been around since 1972 at least.
Posted this in another thread.
The new artwork on the spinning disk needs to GO! It's ugly and doesn't blend into the playfield artwork at all. JJP shouldn't even make it look like a map. I think a much better option would be to have it look like a hand drawn maelstrom with coloring that matches the rest of the playfield. Let the spinning map live on through the LCD but disassociate it from the spinning disk.
Quoted from halflip87:This just in: New spinner artwork released...
is that the TMNT spinning disk mod? it's Awesome!
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Well, Toy Story now becomes a critical release for JJP.
I think POTC is a critical release for JJP
Quoted from rgzpinx:Not a good announcement but I will wait for more info before canceling my order.
don't worry, knowing JJP, they'll offer the original three disk feature in a Super Special LE for $2000 more.
I was in on this one for an LE and my first JJP - the spinning discs and how they lined up with all the variables, LED's was a huge part of the game. I was sold on this one when I watched the SDTM episode and how awesome the game looked with Eric's explanation of how the spinning discs worked and all the potential with that feature -would love to hear Zach and Greg's comment on this one now. How as a company can you spend all this money and then bail on the concept at the 11th hour?? This should have been well tested before any reveal to start with, rather than all the hype and then the let down. As is the case when you have built in expectations based on what JJP has done in the past you feel even more disappointed as the consumer. Now if they want to drop the price 1K maybe you will hear a lot less complaints OR NOT because it is funny how we will spend the $$$ when it comes to something unique. Hello Houdini, hello Iron Maiden - looks like my money is going elsewhere unless JJP can get their act together on this machine.
Bermuda Triangle
Quoted from Eskaybee:LOL you guys haven't even seen the new mech's in action and you're already crying wolf. Give it some time, let's see how this plays out and more importantly how the new disk is in actual game play; I know, what a concept.
I think most have an idea how it works.
Many respect JJP quality but big news for deposits down at reveal.
A lot of new options in six months.
I still want them to keep the vision of this pin from launch.
Step 1) Sell the pin at a reduced cost in its current form (with 2 reduced mechs).
This will satisfy the schedule and help JJP establish themselves as being able to meet timelines. This has been their largest criticism from this community and the industry at large.
Step 2) Work the engineering of these mechs and sell them next year as DIY installs for the game. They should be added to new sales in 2019 (similar to the backalley mods in WOZ RR at a premium) when they are available.
Chest) The chest should be relatively simple to fix with a solenoid and a mounting bracket. (Some physical mods to the chest).
Disc) The disc needs more time, but I think JJP could do it, just not in their current time-frame.
Eric's engineering is already coming in handy in a way, he engineered it to come out easily and be serviceable. This would allow early machine buyers with the pizza mech. to replace it with the triple spinner once the kinks are worked out.
Two messages for JJP:
Jack, don't give up trying to get your features. I can see you now doing cartwheels saying JJP games should blow the competition away. That was you Vision you had for JJP.
Investors, release the game now but continue to develop it to the dream it started as.
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:Remove the features as suggested now and drop the price $500. Fix the engineering for the mechs and re-release the game as the black pearl package next year for $9500 and sell the upgrades as a kit for $1000 to original owners. Don’t give up on the masterpiece this game could be, and keep a viable product to sell now. Win - Win.
Bull$hit! Not a fan of this idea; credit $500 now and then repurchase for twice the price once it is ready? I'd be more than 'happy' to keep the same price with a free swap-out when ready and I could easily wait for that, as long as needed. This of course assumes that JJP could commit to continuing the evolution of the mech.
I am already an early adopter and supporter of JJP. I have the WOZEC, very early run (first run I believe) and have had to replace ALL LED PCBs. Although I was very pleased that the Team took care of the problems for me, ultimately I still have a 5v filtered pass-through set that will likely fail in time. At that point I then have to make the board by board replacements hoping that I'm good to go until the next time. What stinks about that is after weeks/months of working through the original LED issues that I am always paranoid that I will have more problems. Not a nice place to be.
On that topic, I do not know what the current status is of a possible ver2.0 replacement kit and it's pricing but if and when available it's just another likely huge dump of money for something to make that pin right.
I really had difficulty deciding on whether or not I should get in on a first run JJPOTCLE based on my experience with the WOZEC. With the time that has since passed from Chicago Expo I also thought that I should have just picked something else for a year and let this title mature. Not sure what to really think at this point but I suppose that I am willing to wait and see as I am already neck deep at this point.
Quoted from Vino:I think most have an idea how it works.
Many respect JJP quality but big news for those deposits down at reveal.
A lot of new options in six months.
Yes we’ve seen spinning disks a lot. Some good, some bad. We have not seen how this new disk will be with this design and this layout and how it will ultimately effect the ball and gameplay. That said, the original disk was bad ass....when it worked; key words, when it worked. If you guys want an expensive pin that doesn’t work, go preorder Aliens or TBL.
Biscarrosse
Quoted from zpinman370:I was in on this one for an LE and my first JJP - the spinning discs and how they lined up with all the variables, LED's was a huge part of the game. I was sold on this one when I watched the SDTM episode and how awesome the game looked with Eric's explanation of how the spinning discs worked and all the potential with that feature -would love to hear Zach and Greg's comment on this one now. How as a company can you spend all this money and then bail on the concept at the 11th hour?? This should have been well tested before any reveal to start with, rather than all the hype and then the let down. As is the case when you have built in expectations based on what JJP has done in the past you feel even more disappointed as the consumer. Now if they want to drop the price 1K maybe you will hear a lot less complaints OR NOT because it is funny how we will spend the $$$ when it comes to something unique. Hello Houdini, hello Iron Maiden - looks like my money is going elsewhere unless JJP can get their act together on this machine.
Drop the price...you are dreaming..
It will be only slightly lighter to carry.
However, JJP should have make up with another feature. Personnaly, i have never liked the ramps of this one, specially the right one where you go to the mini playfield, over and over...boring. A diverter would have been welcome in order to complete a mode to qualify the acces to mini playfield.
Quoted from dnaman:Bull$hit! Not a fan of this idea; credit $500 now and then repurchase for twice the price once it is ready? I'd be more than 'happy' to keep the same price with a free swap-out when ready and I could easily wait for that, as long as needed. This of course assumes that JJP could commit to continuing the evolution of the mech.
Agreed, I am not sure exactly what the numbers look like, but they certainly shouldn't make a pile of additional money on the early adopters selling them upgraded mechs. And in my experience with JJP, they will take care of the customers. My point was that there is value in developing the mechs.
And fwiw; I’m not trying to sound like a Shill for JJP. Hell, I have an IMDN on its way. I just think we need to give Eric and his team the benefit of the doubt and respect that they know what they’re doing, and doing it for good cause.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Yes we’ve seen spinning disks a lot. Some good, some bad. We have not seen how this new disk will be with this design and this layout and how it will ultimately effect the ball and gameplay. That said, the original disk was bad ass....when it worked; key words, when it worked. If you guys want an expensive pin that doesn’t work, go preorder Aliens or TBL.
Agree, and wouldn’t preorder any of them until they are in a box or HUO.
Stern has demonstrated that this takes appx two weeks.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:I still want them to keep the vision of this pin from launch.
Step 1) Sell the pin at a reduced cost in its current form (with 2 reduced mechs).
This will satisfy the schedule and help JJP establish themselves as being able to meet timelines. This has been their largest criticism from this community and the industry at large.
Step 2) Work the engineering of these mechs and sell them next year as DIY installs for the game. They should be added to new sales in 2019 (similar to the backalley mods in WOZ RR at a premium) when they are available.
Chest) The chest should be relatively simple to fix with a solenoid and a mounting bracket. (Some physical mods to the chest).
Disc) The disc needs more time, but I think JJP could do it, just not in their current time-frame.
Eric's engineering is already coming in handy in a way, he engineered it to come out easily and be serviceable. This would allow early machine buyers with the pizza mech. to replace it with the triple spinner once the kinks are worked out.
Two messages for JJP:
Jack, don't give up trying to get your features. I can see you now doing cartwheels saying JJP games should blow the competition away. That was you Vision you had for JJP.
Investors, release the game now but continue to develop it to the dream it started as.
You realize that there's coding that goes along with the 3 disc mech right? It's not just as simple as swapping them out. What you're suggesting sounds like an absolute nightmare for JJP. Much worse than the nightmare they woke up to this morning.
The people saying they’re out should really think twice. The 3 disc map was too ambitious - it was a ticking time bomb and there was a lot of feedback even on pinside about it being way too loud and not working right at shows. These changes were much needed. The triple map made me dizzy and I couldn’t even read what it said. It was sooo loud, not good for a home environment. As Eric said, the new map will still give chaos to the ball and be more reliable. That sounds great to me. Nobody wants a game that doesn’t work!
This design has a lot more going for it than a spinning map. The animations, shots, rules, theme integration, and multiple other innovations such as the compass screen, rocking PF, lit spinners, star map, and cannon shot. JJP is still making the best pinball machines, by far, and I’m happy to support them.
Quoted from colonel_caverne:Drop the price...you are dreaming..
It will be only slightly lighter to carry.
However, JJP should have make up with another feature. Personnaly, i have never liked the ramps of this one, specially the right one where you go to the mini playfield, over and over...boring. A diverter would have been welcome in order to complete a mode to qualify the acces to mini playfield.
JJP can't ask fro premium $$$ if no longer a premium game and taking one of the key features out of the game puts it in that category
I am still in on an LE. Seems like they could add magnet(s) to the new disk. Salvage some goodwill and add in some coding features with the magnet. Could be cool.
The answer is always more magnets...
I think the game still looks amazing. I do agree that it takes some of the excitement out of the game but there is still an amazing game here. I think they need to add a little more value to the game in light of these new changes. I think throwing in the amazing ship in a bottle topper should be included in the LE version to add value and complete the package. JJp is still the most inovative pinball company out there. They made the right move here if the mechs are not reliable. If they had kept this stuff in while being unreliable everyone would be on this thread in a couple
Months complaining that they are having constant problems. Keep doing what your doing JJp pirates will be awesome and looking forward to toy story as well
Quoted from ViperJelly:I am still in on an LE. Seems like they could add magnet(s) to the new disk. Salvage some goodwill and add in some coding features with the magnet. Could be cool.
The answer is always more magnets...
Hmmm... I hadn't thought about magnets and a disc. That is interesting but it is a large area, the proposed art is too much at the moment.
Fixed outer disc area (to take up some of that large hole) that retains the map LEDS to show what has been spun, keeping this visible right on the PF and the smaller inner disc would spin and utilize one or more magnets?
What I don't understand is that he just says it as a notification, to improve things, feeling good about it. An apology towards the pre-ordered would be in place and promise them either a price reduction or some other compensation. But nothing of that...yet.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Posted this in another thread.
The new artwork on the spinning disk needs to GO! It's ugly and doesn't blend into the playfield artwork at all. JJP shouldn't even make it look like a map. I think a much better option would be to have it look like a hand drawn maelstrom with coloring that matches the rest of the playfield. Let the spinning map live on through the LCD but disassociate it from the spinning disk.
Good idea. Another reason is that if the disks are now on the LCD, then players will be staring at two different looking versions of the disk which is a bit strange don't you think?
Also we won't forever be reminded about what was cut out by looking at it! Maelstroms spin just like the disk so I consider this a fantastic idea!!!!!!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Including the ship in a bottle topper for LE owners would be a fair trade off.
Agreed but limit it to those who had committed with a deposit only prior to the news. No need to offer it to new buyers or those without skin in the game.
Sana'a
Quoted from spinal:Good idea. Another reason is that if the disks are now on the LCD, then players will be staring at two different looking versions of the disk which is a bit strange don't you think?
Yup! Leaving a decal to represent the map on the playfield will be a sad reminder of what once was.
Features get cut all time, but usually not after so many people have played them. I guess that's the big part of why everyone is upset, but the level of disappointment is a little silly.
The discs were a very cool feature, for sure. But they were secondary to the shot geometry on the game, which was already a huge success. After playing it a bunch at TPF, I never really felt the impact of the 3 disc setup, but thought it was neat. With so much already happening in the game, it's a disappointing, but hardly disastrous omission.
For people who just look at their games, and let's not pretend that Pinside isn't full of those types, the change is probably a big blow. For people that will care about reliability first, it's probably a take some good with the bad sort of announcement.
Reliability should always be king. It's one of the main reasons I don't enjoy Star Wars or The Hobbit. I rarely find one that's reliable top to bottom.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Including the ship in a bottle topper for LE owners would be a fair trade off.
Another reason to NOT be in on a CE.....might as well offer 1 version, then accessorize as you see fit.
The game has now changed with a major/ unique functionality being removed.
Wish Eric and team the best, but now must wait for JJP #5 ( if Toy Story then #6). Drats......
Quoted from jar155:Features get cut all time, but usually not after so many people have played them. I guess that's the big part of why everyone is upset, but the level of disappointment is a little silly.
Not silly to JJP and deposits out.
Unlike DI, this one was revealed a bit too early.
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