Yea i wld of thought cliff wld have been in on this from the start after the di issues.

The best solution already exists, as was proven with the early Dialed In machines chipping then time wasted with the in-house protector fiasco. Why go back and try to reinvent the wheel again when your design and production is already gummed up with bigger issues? Work on the big picture stuff to get the games in the pipeline back on track and leave the bulletproofing to the person who does it best and is already working with JJP successfully on Dialed In.

I haven't talked to Cliff recently, but I just assumed the same. But that starts with a call from JJP, so maybe that didn't happen because they were just all backed up with all the wheel and chest last-minute craziness. I hope that's the reason and they're continuing to ship with Cliffies from the factory on jjPotC.

Not knowing the answer to that question is what makes us outsiders. Even though that question was probably rhetorical. I hope there is an option soon though. I got one of the first Dialed In machines and JJP sent me the cliffies 2 months ago when I asked for them. Grateful they did, but I guess we will see how they approach Pirates.

Yep. Fingers crossed JJP builds on the success of their "Cliffies installed from the Factory" program from Dialed In by working with him again on jjPotC.

So my wife and I got super special treatment from Jack at JJP with special exclusive permission to take a tour of the JJP production facility and we were the first outsiders (other than JJP employees) to play the first JJPOTC production game off of the line. You're going to love it! A super great experience - the tour, the pinball discussions and stories with Jack, meeting Jen, and ... of course, playing the game.

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It was the dialled in video

Whew! We know what happened with thier Dialed In protector experiment, so that means that they're probably going with Cliff again, which is great news for everyone. I hope they confirm that soon.

Thanks for following that up!

Jack is endlessly entertaining to talk to - really great guy. You're a lucky duck.

So if jjp can't show any actors from Disney pirates maybe they should show some footage from this Pirates

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Did you notice any Cliffy protectors on the game ?

Congrats on a unique experience with a class act team! I bet there is a sigh of relief to see the hot title finally flowing down the rows. Hope to visit there some day everyone I have met from that company truly loves what they do and it shows in the products the produce.

I think thats from ass pirates doubt they would use clips from that. lol

Any word on how production is coming along and when the first POTC games will be ready for distribution? At one point in an interview during the DI production, Jack said they were producing 10 DI games per day.

That was not what he meant, I am sure that you realize that.

JJP doesn't manufacture everything in these pins, suppliers provide a they can't and won't manufacture.

If time is of the essence, then stick with what you do best. This is Cliff's core competency, work out a deal and have him supply them. He then takes on the design and prototyping and any issues that arise and will adjust accordingly. All for a few dollars a protector.

Think of Stern taking on clear coating PFs. It appears that this was a huge undertaking and cost them far more than they expected to date and I don't just mean monetarily. Only they can answer the question of whether that was worth it or not but long term it might be, once they learn the art. Would that be the same as 'manufacturing' small metal protectors, I doubt it so where is the value and savings?

Spot on.

No pinsiding and driving … I'll add some comments/responses on my JJP visit tomorrow. Long drive home. [Out of Pinside Reply]

I hope they are added at the factory as they are a pain in the ass to install at home. At today's NIB prices Cliffys should be included on at least LE games. It's awesome that JJP is now including Cliffys on new Dialed In game's from the factory, hopefully the same thing happens with Pirates.

I got all that. Keep reading the posts and you'll see the conversation continued.

My point was that we are outsiders and if JJP decides it's easier for them to produce 1 component of their game, as they do with many others, then they are certainly entitled to. Obviously, they have to weigh in the cost benefits of subbing that piece out. Cliffies aren't cheap on the retail end.

Who gets the offical first game off the line? Jack or Eric?

Agreed. Before hanging or assuming what JJP is doing another possible scenario is that this is not in Cliffy's best interest. He (and we) know he makes the best product for this purpose period. Making 1000 (ish) pieces for an OEM will most Certainly not be at the same rate he can (and will) sell them to us for as individual orders. Add to that, he has hundreds of other products he has to continue to support so taking a 6 month vacation to Only support JJP and miss out on other opportunity sales isn't exactly a wise business decision. Again, just weighing out other reasons why JJP might/might not be going the free add on route. They built an Incredible machine and I highly doubt they would put out something that would disintegrate in general home use without a protector? Cliffy is only an email away and the install gets you closer to your game! lol

Have a safe trip. Thank you for the report.

LTG : )

Me.

Okay, just kidding. I'm hoping for one soon to start learning it.

LTG : )

You ought to get one of the first few!

They put out Dialed In, which was literally cracking and chipping within 50 plays or less at the SIM card hole for us and others. Protectors are needed at holes.

When I talked to Cliff after he was officially doing the Dialed In protector he indicated that he hoped it was the beginning of doing them for all JJP pins from the factory. He's completely up for the relationship continuing and expanding (as of 8 months or so ago) from what he told me.

And on the JJP side, they've shown they suck at cliffy-knockoff design when they tried it on Dialed In and wasted a bunch of time and money (as well as all the playfields that chipped while they were screwing around for months trying to make their own), so it's in their best interests to save time and consumer headaches to just go with the person who has the most experience with these and invented the category. The other person is right, for $9500 the LE, at the very least, should have actual Cliffies from the factory. It's a winner on Dialed In (that I still don't understand why JJP isn't using on their promotional materials now - total home run), so jjPotC would benefit similarly.

Know that I don't dissagree in any way with your request just managing expectations should they not make the right decision. Yes they have had issues and made mistakes in the past but they have also shown they Learned from many of them. My guess is this is something they also planed for or tested and will be solved as they deem needed to keep every buyer happy. Just build those awesome games. Please...

We're all here to help them continue to make the right decision and not go down a time-wasting, ultimately unfruitful and customer-unfriendly path like they did on Dialed In for a while. "Cliffies installed at the JJP factory" is the right program, they're doing it right now, and I hope they keep it up with jjPotC (and Wonka, and Toy Story, and GnR. Don't care about Muppets. Let that one get the crap beat out of it, if it's still happening).

Don't let Miss Piggy hear that, she may turn green (like Kermie) and wail on you ( - :

I would get behind that.

Miss Piggy can stuff an apple in it.

Pretty sure those Pirates are fine with whatever position you take.

If they are cranking 10+ machines out a day then these ought to be hitting the distributors really soon.

I was at Replay Fx and did not catch up on this thread for all of the cliffy concerns, but I didn't notice either way. We were oo-ing and awe-ing and commenting back and forth on some of the differences between the prototype pin and this one. That topic did not come up in conversations.

Jack said that he was hoping for 13-15 games per day. Right now they were doing time studies on all of the workstations to find where the possible bottle-necks will be on the line and adjust for that. The one game completed was so that they could run one through all the assembly stations and also so that Eric and JJP could see any part fit issues and to make sure that all productions parts will function correctly. They are working out all of the production line details before going full out on the line. Plenty of parts, cabinets, etc are stacking up and waiting to turn that assembly line switch on. It's ready! They moved the DI assembly over to the second mini-assembly line and were training people on that while we were there too. I wouldn't expect cartwheels (shipping) this week, best case next week, likely a couple of weeks is my personal guess.

Jack said that the game we were playing was not the game labeled as #1 as that was still on the line. This one was for testing the production parts and for any fit issues. He didn't say who gets the pin with the #1 on it.

From earlier questions, the maelstrom ramp is like a bluish frosted color - think of a blue margarita kind of color. It was probably just a fluke with my shot, but it was kind of funny because my ball went around that maelstrom shoot maybe 10-15 times before it finally dropped - was really cool. Guessing that is abnormal.

The production game is much better than the prototypes in our opinion. The trunk lock worked every time (and looked better), the star field and ship looked better, the software was of course better. We saw the triple disk on screen and that was cool. Initially I was disappointed when they announced changing the triple disk to the single, but actually the single disk plays better. Neither one effects the ball travel with a fast shot over it, but the single disk moves a slower traveling ball more than the triple disks. With the triple disks, the ball spends very little time on the surface of each ring. With this single disk, a slower ball can and does change direction similar to the DI magnets on low. In the JJP streams, those are super great tournament players and the ball is most always flying around. It will effect us mediocre players game play more. The color shade of the disk isn't all that bad (or ugly) in-person. Overall, we really love it more than ever. People will have different opinions, so try it for yourself when the production pins are out in the wild. Yes, we will get one - seeing and playing this version of the game sealed the deal.

We had Jack cracking up at one point. The glass was off and when my wife was playing, the ball went down the side and was about to drain, but she quickly grabbed the ball and put it into the plunger lane and said "ball save, ... I need more time on that ball." She got to sink the ship after that for her first time, so it was well worth that "cheat" to see her shout "I got it!" and jump up and down with her hands still on the flippers. A very, very memorable overall experience.

Awesome! Thanks for the write up and congrats on getting to hang with the JJP crew! Could not have happened to a better couple of really nice folks!

When she sunk ship on the production machine was there any visuals added to the display to indicate what you actually did?
They were apparently discussing adding something in one of the last streams. Happens so quick and if your not paying attention you miss it.

I was too distracted by Jack laughing and my wife jumping up and down to tell you the truth. I think there was some acknowledgement on-screen, not sure if there was an associated video or not. I know ... I let you down on that one. We just had too good of a time I guess. If not there now, I would expect that they will do something in future releases. Jack was proud of Keith and the coding team that it will be shipped with "complete" code and made a point to mention that. They always add some finishing touches later. It seems that they listen to good ideas for tweaks, and that seems like one of them that most of their customer base agrees with, so if they can (with licensing permissions), I'm sure they will.

I'm guessing there wasn't. If it's done right you shouldn't be able to miss it that's the whole point , at the moment it's so uneventful if you do sink a ship.

Didn’t really think about it but your right. If he didn’t notice anything the likely not added. It’s so hard to accomplish the big hit that something should happen if your successful.

They have done such a great job with the animation for extra ball and The Cannon firing we just need one more of a ship blowing up.

This is just a possibility but I don't think JJP or Kef said they are done with code when production starts. I think they worked on WOZ for years finalizing perfection. My guess is we have many new animations coming possibly even this cannon fire sequence which has been mentioned and requested dozens of times now. I suspect they are planning to make POTC their next multi year sale WOZ and Eric and Kef's history in the making. Could be wrong but I don't imagine they are close to a finished code just yet.

It'll probably be a Hobbit situation. Long time between updates. Unless they expand their programming staff, and soon, it will be hard to ever have a WoZ level of frequent updates again. By the end of next year they'll have 5 or possibly even 6 machines to support (WoZ, Hobbit, Dialed On, jjPotC, Wonka, Toy Story). That's a gigantic code base to manage and update with a relatively small code production staff. WoZ is for all intents and purposes done, except that it's JJP evergreen best-seller and some new code features would juice sales again, so you can't count any of them out for ongoing code support.

Just curious why they haven't done it before some of the other animations when it is such an obvious one to do I think it is more important than the cannon firing animation. When you Fire The Cannon and sink a ship it should be such a "moment" in the game. I agree with you they are doing such a great job with the game.

they have it all ready to go they are just waiting to drop it in cause as soon as they do, you will start begging for laminated playfield shot sheets again.

You have a good memory it's nice to know someone is listening to my suggestions and it's still a good idea.

I'm sure there will be more bug fixing and polish, but I highly doubt PotC will be like either WOZ or even Hobbit. PotC will be by far their most finished game at launch - which is great, though obviously partly due to the late launch.

I'd be surprised if its not 99% finished a few months after launch.

I sure hope so. Fanfare in regards to light shows, animations, etc needs to be in the game for hitting and destroying ships.

True, but at this point I would rather have the pin and the polishing can come any time. These are all niceties. The current state of the software is beyond killer, let the Team get this thing out the door already!

Dialed In was very complete at launch. Their most complete launch to date.

We are streaming POTC today LIVE at 3PM Central/4PM Eastern! See ya then! https://www.twitch.tv/jjplive

I got the answer to the question from JJP today. They ARE using some protector they designed, they are NOT using any Cliffy protectors on jjPotC. I just hope they're not the terrible thick style protectors they made from scratch for Dialed In that sucked. Guess we'll have to wait and see if they pull it off given their bad protector track record, but this another piece of bad news about jjPotC IMO.