I was just looking at my MMr. Compaired to POTC it has no where near the amount of toys and yet its rated #1 on pinside. If a theme is done right, it will still be a fun game. Looking forward to seeing if JJP actually does a few graphics revisions for the map and hopefully.... hopefully they can get the trunk to work. If not, someone has to make a mod for it. I’m still looking forward to this game getting delivered.

I was in Kalamazoo on Friday playing Pirates with three discs.

I do not understand why they can not put a solenoid to drive the chest door and tie it into the fork that actuates. So when ball lock is ready the fork comes up which sends the signal the solenoid to open the chest. Then close when the fork is down. But then again I truly don't know how the balls are released in multi ball. There may not be enough room below PF to install that.
I get he spinning discs though, unfortunately. But I commend them on not putting something out there that they know is going to break!!

From "This Week In Pinball" interview with Eric.

http://thisweekinpinball.com/twip-interview-with-eric-meunier-on-jjp-changes-heighway-pinball-unsettling-info-alice-coopers-sounds-and-callouts-more/

The three spinning discs were a very cool feature and it was easy to see you (and JJP) were excited about them. How difficult of a decision was it to remove them?
Removing them from the game was a very difficult decision. Hardest thing I’ve ever had to do at JJP. I am very passionate about the design, and have poured my heart and soul into this game. The triple spinning disk is the first ever mechansim for which I have my name on the patent. When push comes to shove though, the game has to be reliable first and foremost. Our testing proceedure here at JJP proved that it wasn’t, and unfortunately we are out of time.

Can you explain more about why the three discs were removed? Was it failing in long-term tests?
As was seen at several shows around the world, and in the shops of several of our distributors, the disks were not living long-term. It was not a cost issue and it was not code/programming.

Is it set in stone that it will now include just the one disc?
It is set in stone.

Is the design of new disc the same artwork that was in the movie?
It is the exact artwork out of the movie series.

You mentioned the colors will be changed to match the playfield better. Do you know how they will be changed?
Colors of the disk are going to be lightened up a bit. Looked like the red was coming through stronger than anything else, so it’s been pulled back a bit to better blend in and resemble the older color pallet of the original disk.

Will the colors on the CE be different than the LE and Standard?
Disk colors are the same on all 3 models.

Did coding the discs and rewards play into the decision at all?
We still want to and are going to display the random generated awards on the screen. It was an interesting feature that we definitely want.

Will the new disc spin in both directions or at different speeds?
The new disk will spin in both directions and at variable speeds. Hitting the map targets is what starts and changes the speed/direction of the map.

Will the late changes cause any delays in production?
The changes will not cause delays in production.

When can we expect these machines to start shipping?
Machines are shipping this summer. I am flying to NJ next month to help train the factory on how to assemble my game.

What month during the summer can we expect these to ship?
I don’t want to go on record with a firm date, but I plan on showing Jack how to actually do a cartwheel when my first game ships while I’m out there…

Hey you know this was kind of lost in all the bullshit:

"Will the new disc spin in both directions or at different speeds?
The new disk will spin in both directions and at variable speeds. Hitting the map targets is what starts and changes the speed/direction of the map."

That indeed makes the spinner much different than any other ever produced. Right? Can't think of any other games with spinning discs that behave this way. Correct me if I'm wrong please, with as much abuse as possible.

Is that your final answer?

Totally agree. The spinning disk was cool no doubt, but that’s not what sold me personally on the game so I’m still looking forward to seeing this game in all its glory.

That said; how much testing was/is needed on the 3-disk? It seems like it’s been 6 months; now they throw this new one in and go into production? Let’s hope it holds up.

Twister has a disc that spins at different speeds by pulsing the motor, but wow changing directions?

What a technological marvel!

The disc in TRON spins in clockwise and counterclockwise depending on the mode.

The fact that the disc spins both directions and at varying speeds is great news. It would be nice to also know what the material on the disc will be made of. Will it be grippy, like the original WW disks, or grippier? If it will throw the ball around and switch speeds/directions often, it will be a great, NEW mech.

The issue we have here is how JJP communicated the change. Had the original video showcased this new disc, with it's cool functionality and the digital awards, I think preorders wouldn't have sunk so much. This has a lot going for it, but it just wasn't advertised.

I've never been interested in buying this because of the recycled theme that I never liked the first time, but I'm now excited to play it again. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with this mech, assuming it can grip and rip balls around the playfield. Multiball will be even better!

I can't believe someone figured out that if you reverse the polarity, the motor spins in the opposite direction.

Jacobi would be proud!

What is this reverse polarity you speak of!!!

Cute, but still, "this is the same disc as Fireball '72" meme no longer works.

Besides, aren't you on team "who gives a shit" now?

Just like the wheels on my car!

I've always been on "team who gives a shit".

I was out there putting new code on Houdini and did talk with Eric for awhile. He had brought the machine with the single spinner that was shown in the stream, for those who were attending to play. I believe that went back to the design studio at the end of the evening (I'm guessing that it is Keith's dev machine). I left when folks started to show up for the event and I did not get a chance to play the new version, not that I would comment on it even if I did.

Setting aside the fact that Keith has posted in this thread, I don't think anyone from JJP would have to be reading these threads, or need a crystal ball, to know how people are reacting to the change (not saying they are not reading them, just they would not really need to). I'm sure they had a good sense of what was going to happen when the announced the change and I'm pretty confident that making the change was not something they wanted to do, but felt they had to do what was in the best interest of future owners. I'm sure if they could have found a way to keep it, they would have and accordingly I would be shocked if they suddenly reversed direction. No designer wants to remove a cool new feature from a machine and a company that prides itself on putting out top of the line full loaded games would not have given up easily on this challenge.

There is a risk to doing new and innovative things, and occasionally things like this are going to happen. Speaking as a collector and enthusiast, I'd rather see companies take some innovative risks, and occasionally have to reverse course then see them always take the safe path.

2C18FCFB-8624-4AEF-9233-31199963E076 (resized).jpeg

*Entering acceptance stage* Who I'm I kidding, I'm going to buy an LE eventually. After watching the latest live stream I say "I love this plan, I'm excited to be a part of it!" lol

GB (resized).jpg

acceptance (resized).jpg

Quick digression.

I would think if j k Rowling could be sold on a product related to her franchise, she would have massive if not absolute approval power. It is not a dream theme for me a Harry Potter pin but if one was made well I would be very interested.

My point I think j k Rowling is the boss of her franchise.

My opinion only. I would buy a Harry Potter pin if done right. I bet many would.

I don't necessarily disagree, but at these price points ($9,500-$12,500) good intentions don't carry much weight.

Keep raising prices and taking assets away. See how that works out long term.

Just listened to the Jack interview. They are just getting the game out and when NON Pinside people find out about Potc around xmas time and never even knew about the spinning disc issue, it won't matter. "People love our games".

I am sure he doesn't really believe that.

I look forward to listening later tonight.

Prepare to be enlightened

In some respects, its the height of arrogance and taking customers for granted.

They RAISED the price AGAIN, and thus its on THEM to keep raising the bar and -removed-.

He brings NOTHING to the table now. Pat, Eric, Keith and team are what its all about. This guy is becoming a negative.

Where is the jack interview posted?

What podcast is Jack on?

To be fair I bet every other manufacturer would have scrapped the map idea entirely and not have spent the time / money re-creating it using high quality animations. Software = value and even though POTC no longer has the 3x spinning disk in it the game still has 3x the amount of software the the typical modern pin.

Update: I saw the reply below, thanks.

In the are you reconsidering thread

I think he did provide some insight into the future reveals. Doesn't sound like they will reveal new machines a year in advance which may mean no play testing on location. Might also mean the next machine won't be revealed until TPF 2019.

He was pretty candid about his thoughts on the matter which I appreciate. Ultimately the potential buyers will decide whether this was a good decision.

It could all have been handled differently but in the end he takes the blame, not on removing the disks but revealing the game too early.

I still think the game looks great and should play well. I have a few games on the old design and think there is still enough int he game to keep me as a buyer. Obviously future developments could change my preorder status but I think the code continues to add to the value of the machine and I am looking forward to the new code features they add with every live stream.

I don't think that's fair based on what Jack said in the interview. I just started listening and to be fair Jack does apologize right off the bat and says the days of JJP showing a game that isn't ready to be shipped are over. Jack also said the mechanism wasn't reliable to be put in games and they don't want another light board fiasco. He said he rather endure criticism right now to make a bullet proof game. Makes sense. Jack said pre-orders are not sales, well he's right. He also said he's respectful of his customers opinions, said the negative reactions come with the territory, etc. Jack also mentioned that the 3x disk will not be in a future version of POTC, maybe in another game one day if they can get it to work.

Good interview and feedback. Jack apologizes multiple times, takes responsibility and said JJP will do better. Time to give JJP a break and wait and see how the game turns out. I think POTC will stand on its own when all is said and done.

Lets hope they dont take away the 4th cabinet leg, because THAT will make it hard for your statement to be correct. *grin*

So many non-pinside shoppers already have their 10K already budgeted for one. Happens every year, what pinball are we spending 10K on this year?

Well it must be Potc then? Or Toy Story after another $500 increase?

I agree. I thought Jack handled this interview as well as he could. As a DICE owner and somebody who bailed on POTCCE it actually made me feel bad for him and a little guilty about cancelling my order (I know that is stupid to feel that way). This was a tough pill to swallow for him and you have to exude a position of strength at times like this (without being arrogant) and I didn't think Jack's tone or words were arrogant at all. My BS meter runs pretty damn high and it wasn't going off here. I like when he said to Jonathan "I could give you a birthday gift and then take it away" Lmao.

Haters are gonna hate.

Buying Premium brand new pinball machines is expensive .Maybe you should find a more affordable hobby (this is for crazy Levi) I don't want my Bentley to have vynal seats just so you can afford it.

You do realize what you are defending is you preordering your Bentley with Corinthian leather, they release it with vinyl seats and charge you the same right?

Not at all, instead of giving me a jet flame lighter they give me a traditional one. But the car still has more bells and whistles than any other car.

Corinthian leather only comes on Chryslers hawked by Ricardo Montelbon and we ain't shopping for that kind of garbage around here!

Look, the dude clearly pre-ordered a Ferrarri with optional retracting antenna. But, months before it's release, the antenna mech was proven to be aerodynamically inefficient so it was removed, and replaced by a static but more form-fitting antenna.

So, the choice is this - does he accept this Ferrari with this small, mostly cosmetic alteration? Or does he decide to shop for something else in the Italian exotic market? Perhaps a Lambo?

In the case of POTC it's even tougher, because really, who else is churning out Ferraris? Stern LEs are more like high-end caddilacs. Houdini is more like a concept car. And Alien is kind of like a Delorean in that it looks cool but drives terribly, breaks down like it's its job, and the company's owners will likely be selling cocaine soon in a last-ditch attempt to keep the doors of the factory open.

So what I'm trying to say is - screw pinball. I'm sick of it, and I'm heading over to a car forum. WHO'S WITH ME?!

Corinthian leather? Of course, why not the best?

I'm glad you're up do you ever leave pinside

Between the hours of not 9 to 5 you'll find my posting drops precipitously. You'll also notice many post much, much more than I do.

I'm kind of like a Shelby Cobra. Quality over quantity, but also mildly overrated.

I just did a time check it's only 10 o'clock in New York and it's midnight in oz I thought you were burning the midnight oil .cobras rock! l

Dude your avatar fits

Great come back

You're the one who hangs Shit on everything. You do know no one is making you buy this pin.

Are you sure about that? Jack is holding a gun to my head! Thanks Captain Obvious.

There's a company out there making something you're meant to love and all I read is you bagging it.

Relax Taz.

Let me sum it up for you and then we can move on.

I showered love on JJP non stop for years starting in 2013 as a day one Woz buyer.

I used to give Jack the benefit of the doubt. I'm a bit more skeptical these days based on the history of actions and comments.

All that said, let's be clear, POTC still looks like a fantastic game!!! And i feel bad for the whole team.

The way it was announced by feeding Eric to the wolves and calling it "minor tweaks update" was BS. Jack is the head of the company, be straight with us and not shady.

He does the interview, says he's sorry and then offers nothing for removing 2 main features from the game.

How about dropping the price $500 back to DI levels?

Love the people, love the pin, hate the BS way it was handled.

Period.

I know you aren't a hater but you and your ilk need to stop driving this point into the ground.

They can't and won't just unilaterally lower prices. They have a business plan and they are sticking to it and aren't going to slash machines $500. Stop begging for it as it's kind of embarrassing. Pinball prices go up every year, just like the price of everything else, and it's not going to stop, and it's not to regress because they "removed features" that nobody has paid for yet.

Come on man...there's still a chance here to keep your dignity!

OK iceman happy for a truce I'm sure you're a great bloke as 99pecnt of pinball lovers are. Since disc gate has happened it's like everyone has turned on jjp and no one will say what a great job they are doing. Just because one feature has been downgraded everyone forgets how much there is in this pin and how awesome it will be .sorry I got defensive happy to move on, no hard feelings.