(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Yelobird
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11
#51 1 year ago

The chest is no biggie but changing the disc is pretty darn disappointing. It was more than just a gameplay element but also an exciting visual element with its lit up inserts. Replacing it with an unlit map is sadly a pretty steep downgrade.

Here are some ideas for alternatives:

Make it a spinning LED disc. You could create wild holographic effects with it. When not spinning you see the map graphics, when it spins different animations are played.

Make it a literal liquid maelstrom. Some sealed blue fluid and some lights and you could have an impressive “analog” visual.

#52 1 year ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

The chest is no biggie but changing the disc is pretty darn disappointing. It was more than just a gameplay element but also an exciting visual element with its lit up inserts. Replacing it with an unlit map is sadly a pretty steep downgrade.
Here are some ideas for alternatives:
Make it a spinning LED disc. You could create wild holographic effects with it. When not spinning you see the map graphics, when it spins different animations are played.
Make it a literal liquid maelstrom. Some sealed blue fluid and some lights and you could have an impressive “analog” visual.

I always thought some sort of spinning maelstrom that could eat your ball would be kind of cool.

#53 1 year ago

Does the mini pf always move during game play when the ball is on the main wrea? Just curious if this is of concern with motor wearing out etc? Thanks

#54 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

I have to say I'm definitely out right now. I can't help but feel cheated. This is not what I put my deposit on.

Harsh but perfectly understandable. The only reason I was fine with the game not having licensed music from the movies and in movie actor audio / actor video was due to interactive features like the 3x disk and chest...

#55 1 year ago

Oh, so is the chest now just a virtual ball lock or still physical?

#56 1 year ago

If they're changing them this late in the design cycle and almost 6 months after the launch, it's likely because they've tried very hard to make them work, but weren't happy with the results and took a pragmatic decision.

Half of pinside was saying the discs would never work and would potentially ruin the game when announced. Now it's the end of the world that it's being removed for reliability reasons? Come on.

Everyone was wowed by the pitching upper pf ... now the disc was the main feature? Really?

The chest change is definitely a good idea. The machine I played and every time I've seen it streamed there were good shots rejected, some of which would go SDTM. If as he suggests the change fixes this, then I can't see how it's not good.

As for cheaping out ... this remains by far the most ambitious machine since WOZ and still has so much interactive stuff going on. I'd be amazed if a similarly expensive Stern LE was anywhere close to half the BoM - even for the seemingly upgraded Iron Maiden LE. PotC is still the veritable kitchen sink.

Finally, features are cut or scaled back for reliability or cost reasons on all games. You're just actually witnessing the former here because JJP have decided to launch the games and test them publicly for months before they ship. How many machines have been half-arsed engineering or reliability wise lately, or if not physically then with code? Far too many.

#57 1 year ago

Probably out for now too. Too much and the wait (understand it’s better to get it right) since it was announced just has me not as excited anymore. Maybe down the road.....

#58 1 year ago

I’m not gonna cancel my preorder just yet but it does feel like I ordered a neopolitan ice cream and found out it won’t have any strawberry. I appreciate the radical candor of JJP and Eric and know they are trying to make something great.

#59 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Half of pinside was saying the discs would never work and would potentially ruin the game when announced. Now it's the end of the world that it's being removed for reliability reasons? Come on.

No they weren't.

#60 1 year ago

That new disk looks really bad by itself, without comparing it to the awesome looking old one.

#61 1 year ago

Wow
really disappointed to hear about this
Nice try on the video update but the announcement was an epic fail all around
JJPPOTC was on my want list, but now I'll only looking for a used one at a greatly deflated price point

9500
No Thanks
So much for innovation
Lets strip it down.....

Especially when I can buy 2 or 3 nice Stern or William's games to fill my basement up with.
More bang for the buck with the old reliablity

#62 1 year ago

New pics of the updated spinner...

potc74 (resized).jpg

12
#63 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

If they're changing them this late in the design cycle and almost 6 months after the launch, it's likely because they've tried very hard to make them work, but weren't happy with the results and took a pragmatic decision.
Half of pinside was saying the discs would never work and would potentially ruin the game when announced. Now it's the end of the world that it's being removed for reliability reasons? Come on.
Everyone was wowed by the pitching upper pf ... now the disc was the main feature? Really?
The chest change is definitely a good idea. The machine I played and every time I've seen it streamed there were good shots rejected, some of which would go SDTM. If as he suggests the change fixes this, then I can't see how it's not good.
As for cheaping out ... this remains by far the most ambitious machine since WOZ and still has so much interactive stuff going on. I'd be amazed if a similarly expensive Stern LE was anywhere close to half the BoM - even for the seemingly upgraded Iron Maiden LE. PotC is still the veritable kitchen sink.
Finally, features are cut or scaled back for reliability or cost reasons on all games. You're just actually witnessing the former here because JJP have decided to launch the games and test them publicly for months before they ship. How many machines have been half-arsed engineering or reliability wise lately, or if not physically then with code? Far too many.

We pre ordered & bought into a premium priced product that was presented to us a certain way with no expectations that the final product would be nerfed.

Simple as that.

#64 1 year ago
Quoted from gatordad:

Wow
really disappointed to hear about this
Nice try on the video update but the announcement was an epic fail all around
JJPPOTC was on my want list, but now I'll only looking for a used one at a greatly deflated price point
9500
No Thanks
So much for innovation
Lets strip it down.....
Especially when I can buy 2 or 3 nice Stern or William's games to fill my basement up with.
More bang for the buck with the old reliablity

Exactly my thoughts now!

23
#65 1 year ago

Kudos to Eric for coming right onto pinside for giving an update. Maybe not the news we wanted to hear, but respect the transparency.

#66 1 year ago
Quoted from PinBuck:

New pics of the updated spinner...

That spinner looks better than the new barf splatter spinner!

#67 1 year ago

Smart move. I think everybody who had put some serious time working on games knew that triple spinner was going to be a disaster.

Surprised to see so many people making this out to be a dealbreaker but people want what they want I guess.

14
#68 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Smart move. I think everybody who had put some serious time working on games knew that triple spinner was going to be a disaster.
Surprised to see so many people making this out to be a dealbreaker but people want what they want I guess.

Replacing a potential problem mech is smart. Replacing it with a 1972 Fireball mech is not, especially for a premium priced machine.

They need to replace it with something else unique, high tech, and reliable.

#69 1 year ago

My opinion.......I still think highly of Eric, this kid created something special and flat out went for it! He is the type of person we need in this hobby. He took a bunch of chances and a few didn’t work out....so what. That being said this game is too much money for me to buy NIB, similar to Dial my Grandmother in Mom jeans. There was never a chance I was buying it NIB. Although JJP has jumped the shark in pricing, they have not in build quality or features.

15
#70 1 year ago

Maybe they should make sure their shit actually works and is mechanically reliable before launching and taking orders.

This f$&@ up could hurt JJP if sales slip. They no doubt have a bunch of time and money invested in this title.

#71 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Replacing a potential problem mech is smart. Replacing it with a 1972 Fireball mech is not, especially for a premium priced machine.
They need to replace it with something else unique, high tech, and reliable.

So another year and untold R&D on another "unique high tech" mech and HOPE this one turns out to be reliable?

People here simply need to be more realistic about what goes into building a pinball machine. JJP did the smart thing to get this game toward production. That's what pinball companies that want to stay in business have to do - keep the line moving.

#72 1 year ago
Quoted from Stones:

Kudos to Eric for coming right onto pinside for giving an update. Maybe not the news we wanted to hear, but respect the transparency.

What was the alternative? See if we notice?

#73 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

What was the alternative? See if we notice?

OK, that made me lol

#74 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So another year and untold R&D on another "unique high tech" mech and HOPE this one turns out to be reliable?
People here simply need to be more realistic about what goes into building a pinball machine. JJP did the smart thing to get this game toward production. That's what pinball companies that want to stay in business have to do - keep the line moving.

Another year? This is JJP. Try two or three years.

#75 1 year ago

This just in from JJP:

On the next game, Toy Story, the Buzz Lightyear toy is being changed from full-sized Buzz to mini-Buzz from the chicken restaurant.

IMG_0518 (resized).JPG

#76 1 year ago
Quoted from PinBuck:

New pics of the updated spinner...

I'm confused, Where did this picture come from? Is this a joke? This is the new disk, rather than the one we saw in the video with Eric? Whats with the targets, and it is next to a wall. Please enlighten me please.

#77 1 year ago
Quoted from danastude:

I'm confused, Where did this picture come from? Is this a joke? This is the new disk, rather than the one we saw in the video with Eric? Whats with the targets, and it is next to a wall. Please enlighten me please.

Not sure if you're kidding or not, but that pic was from the old Stern POTC game.

-4
#78 1 year ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

We pre ordered & bought into a premium priced product that was presented to us a certain way with no expectations that the final product would be nerfed.
Simple as that.

It's explicitly stated in their literature that "Game appearance and specifications subject to change without notice", and by definition nothing is final whilst they're still running prototypes (they are) rather than final engineering samples.

The notion that this is somehow a cheap, cost cut game is absolutely ludicrous, whwn you compare it to the competition - all of them.

19
#79 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's explicitly stated in their literature that "Game appearance and specifications subject to change without notice", and by definition nothing is final whilst they're still running prototypes (they are) rather than final engineering samples.
The notion that this is somehow a cheap, cost cut game is absolutely ludicrous, whwn you compare it to the competition - all of them.

I get a hell of a lot more bang for my buck at $5,400 for a GOTG Pro than an $8,500 game that does not have licensed music, no scenes from the movie, and now two interactive toys have been seriously downgraded.

Oh, and by the way, even a $5,400 Aerosmith Pro has a trunk that can open and close and lock the balls.

So let's curb the JJP hyperbole.

#80 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's explicitly stated in their literature that "Game appearance and specifications subject to change without notice", and by definition nothing is final whilst they're still running prototypes (they are) rather than final engineering samples.
The notion that this is somehow a cheap, cost cut game is absolutely ludicrous, whwn you compare it to the competition - all of them.

Ok. Well you got me on the fine print legal speak I guess...but you have to admit that no one was expecting major mechs to be revised to the point where one (the trunk) is now going to look broken stuck open.

I mean we have 2 games now with opening and closing trunks that cost far less.

11
#81 1 year ago

Too much, I'm Out! These two mechs sold me on buying an LE of an already expensive game, and now they are gone. Would never have considered buying POTC without these features. Both were replaced with something much less desireable, so I will be playing a lot on location. Maiden is getting my money.

PS - wonder why a transparent double disk moving around a fixed center core wouldn't work? That would keep proportions better while adding some chaos. Two disks can't be that hard and would be way cooler.

#82 1 year ago

It's tough to try and pull off a last minute change like this at $9,500 per game.

30
#83 1 year ago

Must have been very hard for Eric @ JJP. Very ambitious for any designer let alone someone's first game. He has designed some pretty cool stuff in this game. Yes I'm very disappointed but I could only imagine how he is feeling right now. Hopefully him and the rest of the JJP team finds a way to make this right.

#84 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Let’s be honest here.... that new spinner look like a spinning barf wheel and the game is no longer loaded with innovative toys....
The machine is no longer worth $9500, period.

Second on the barf wheel

15
#85 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Oh, so is the chest now just a virtual ball lock or still physical?

Chest is still a physical ball lock. Tying the chest movement to the fork diverter was causing untold grief and that's why the reason to decouple it was made. The shot into the chest is like butter now.

#86 1 year ago

That new wheel looks like the crap microwave cheese pizza I ate in college. That can’t be the final design.
Overall, disappointing after the reveal expectations and the inevitable comparisons but good on JJP to make the announcement.

#87 1 year ago

I appreciate the nice try on the video and presenting it in a way to attempt to soften the blow, but the fact is this is a huge fuck up. They know it. Let's not pretend that a shitty disc animation is any sort of consolation though.

Jack, if you see Gary wandering around, can you please ask him how he got his Aerosmith trunk to open and close? Thanks boss.

#88 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Chest is still a physical ball lock. Tying the chest movement to the fork diverter was causing untold grief and that's why the reason to decouple it was made. The shot into the chest is like butter now.

Thanks Keith, great to hear.

#89 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

Jack, if you see Gary wandering around, can you please ask him how he got his Aerosmith trunk to open and close? Thanks boss.

I think I peed a little laughing after reading that!

#90 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's explicitly stated in their literature that "Game appearance and specifications subject to change without notice", and by definition nothing is final whilst they're still running prototypes (they are) rather than final engineering samples.
The notion that this is somehow a cheap, cost cut game is absolutely ludicrous, whwn you compare it to the competition - all of them.

Your kidding?

Time to stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

#91 1 year ago

Ouch!!! Sucks for everyone. I totally understand why people would want out. I know I would under the current circumstances

#92 1 year ago

Damnit that wheel was so cool looking. I was really excited for something a little different. Hope something is greatly improved on vs. what was shown in that video.

#93 1 year ago

Ill keep my deposit down until i get the call to pay up.... but if that new wheel shown hasnt changed then ill be withdrawing my deposit and more likely get a iron maiden prem. Shame as i was really looking fwd to owning this but that new spinner is pretty ugly and underwhelming compared to the old one. The trunk i can deal.with . Good news is i will.save 2500 going with iron maiden.

#94 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

If they're changing them this late in the design cycle and almost 6 months after the launch, it's likely because they've tried very hard to make them work, but weren't happy with the results and took a pragmatic decision.
Half of pinside was saying the discs would never work and would potentially ruin the game when announced. Now it's the end of the world that it's being removed for reliability reasons? Come on.
Everyone was wowed by the pitching upper pf ... now the disc was the main feature? Really?
The chest change is definitely a good idea. The machine I played and every time I've seen it streamed there were good shots rejected, some of which would go SDTM. If as he suggests the change fixes this, then I can't see how it's not good.
As for cheaping out ... this remains by far the most ambitious machine since WOZ and still has so much interactive stuff going on. I'd be amazed if a similarly expensive Stern LE was anywhere close to half the BoM - even for the seemingly upgraded Iron Maiden LE. PotC is still the veritable kitchen sink.
Finally, features are cut or scaled back for reliability or cost reasons on all games. You're just actually witnessing the former here because JJP have decided to launch the games and test them publicly for months before they ship. How many machines have been half-arsed engineering or reliability wise lately, or if not physically then with code? Far too many.

Couldn’t help but chuckle reading this, as I’m familiar with your recent work. I’m sure you’d be just as understanding if this were a stern game and they just announced these changes.

#95 1 year ago

838FA27E-3F36-4B5A-8D78-7F8FA0D3B126.gif

20
#96 1 year ago

The new single disc looks like a rushed in design change. They need to take some added time to do it right before the game becomes known as "Pizzas of the Caribbean ".
That splatter disc just does not measure up the way it presently appears.

#97 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

I get a hell of a lot more bang for my buck at $5,400 for a GOTG Pro than an $8,500 game that does not have licensed music, no scenes from the movie, and now two interactive toys have been seriously downgraded.
Oh, and by the way, even a $5,400 Aerosmith Pro has a trunk that can open and close and lock the balls.
So let's curb the JJP hyperbole.

I’m also a little stumped about the chest being a problem. I’m sure it must be, but it certainly seems doable. Houdini and Aerosmith seem to be managing...

#98 1 year ago
Quoted from arcadem:

The new single disc looks like a rushed in design change. They need to take some added time to do it right before the game becomes known as "Pizzas of the Caribbean ".
That splatter disc just does not measure up the way it presently appears.

Its now shit get of the pot time for getting these produced. I’m thinkin the clock has expired for further r&d which is unfortunate.

One has to wonder if they could do it all over again, would they even have a spinner and chest?

#99 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

I’m also a little stumped about the chest being a problem. I’m sure it must be, but it certainly seems doable. Houdini and Aerosmith seem to be managing...

Totally different way they work.... balls come in from underneath from a fork diverter which also raised the lid at same time. There were alot of rejects bc of the lid...so. now it just stays open so it works 100 percent.

16
#100 1 year ago
Quoted from ASOA:

Must have been very hard for Eric @ JJP. Very ambitious for any designer let alone someone's first game. He has designed some pretty cool stuff in this game. Yes I'm very disappointed but I could only imagine how he is feeling right now. Hopefully him and the rest of the JJP team finds a way to make this right.

I feel terrible for Eric and JJP. They fixed the F ed up Hobbit artwork before launch. However, i don't see how they can fix this one satisfactorily.

I'm sure its gonna still be a great game, no doubt about it, and I'll keep my preorder for now BUT I can't see dropping $12,500 on a CE after this.

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