(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Yelobird
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There are 3327 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 67.
19
#851 1 year ago
Quoted from Tucks:

Wow. 17 pages on a spinning disc(s). Some people on here need to get a grip. It's still a great game that JJP are obviously making more reliable for their customers. Just a thought but why no give them some positive comments and help the people that create and further your hobby rather than shoot them down. Makes no sense to me.

The best feedback any business can get is honest feedback, regardless of the tact. Successful businesses have thick skin and understand how to filter the feedback by continuing to stay professional on their end and continue striving towards creating a superior product. JJP has that opportunity today. If customers don't hold them accountable and voice their opinion on what's acceptable and not acceptable for their utility of the said product, that's doing the company itself a disservice.

For us personally, we were seriously considering a CE purchase because my wife is a huge fan of the theme and anything Disney related. The spinning disc was the top feature that we loved and after playing it in person, it solidified that this was a pin to add to our lineup. However, after seeing the change come out of nowhere at the 11th hour after viewing several streams and seeing reassurance that it works properly as late as a March video, it was a letdown. Realistically for us, $12.5k was pushing the limit on a hobby purchase. It still looks like a great pin, still a fantastic design, but taking a major part of what we loved about it out of the game and still charging the same amount makes it an easy decision to pass on the pin.

#852 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymag8:

I thought this and related threads would start to die off now that we have the final answers

#Spinnergate has only just begun!

#853 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

#Spinnergate has only just begun!

"Rotating non-magnetic Pizzagate!" ( - :

#854 1 year ago

How awesome would it be to get one of the machines already built with triple disc and moving trunk? I'd say those will sell for a mint later on.

#855 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMagnet:

How awesome would it be to get one of the machines already built with triple disc and moving trunk? I'd say those will sell for a mint later on.

It would be cool except that the old features wouldn't work with new code updates.-you'd be stuck on the current code which doesn't have the wheel awards programmed yet. I'd rather have a reliable game that works!

As far as the changes go I still think the game will be really fun to play even if the disk isn't nearly as cool to look at. If it's a game/theme that speaks to you and you have the money I wouldn't let that stop you from buying and enjoying the game!

#856 1 year ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Damn, you are really out of touch...

Quoted from Tucks:

With reality? Probably not.

And an excellent judge of character with exceptional business sense to boot. Well done Sir! There's no fooling you.

Quoted from Tucks:

Answering some of the earlier posts, being from the UK I've met Andrew on a number of occasions, I've been round his factory (previous one I think when Full Throttle started) and played Alien at EAG London about a month ago. All good to report. Yes he does have other machines on site as he is a pinhead. As for production, he's is just starting to 'ramp up'. No one can start producing any product at top speed from the start. I'm sure he'll get loads of orders and give Stern/JJP something to think about. This is not negative as I love both Stern and JJP and it can only be good for Pinball. Really forward to hearing about game #3 Andrew..........

#857 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMagnet:

How awesome would it be to get one of the machines already built with triple disc and moving trunk? I'd say those will sell for a mint later on.

You'd be stuck with the code that's in it now with no updates unless you are or know a programmer.

#858 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

And an excellent judge of character with exceptional business sense to boot. Well done Sir! There's no fooling you.

Played Alien at the weekend on location. Seem to be shipping OK over here. What has judging Andrew's character and 'business sense' got to do with 3 spinning discs?

#859 1 year ago
Quoted from Tucks:

Played Alien at the weekend on location. Seem to be shipping OK over here. What has judging Andrew's character and 'business sense' got to do with 3 spinning discs?

Just trying to demonstrate what a great guy you are.

-moderated-

#860 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Like Stern, Apple usually doesn't show something till it's close to shipping

Did they not do this with Batman 66? I remember going to expo two years ago and just being able to look at Batman. And did you see the price tag on that
I am still in for my LE. And here is why, The game still has a lot going for it. The rocking ship with cannon is still awesome!! The coding is shaping up really good with 5 wizard modes and a 6th on its way to being done, if its not already. 22 different characters to choose from with each having its own perk. Granted it won't have the wow factor of the 3 discs but as eric said no one could be as unhappy about that as him!!!!
I do wish they would have gotten the treasure chest to work and who knows maybe they will. There is still time before production, I thought it was mentioned that production would start in may. But with DI now becoming so popular they may hold off a little longer.

#861 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymag8:

we have the final answer

download (resized).jpg

#862 1 year ago

Anyone have a link to yesterday's JJP video? All I see is live stream from 2 hours ago.

29
#863 1 year ago

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-2
#864 1 year ago
Quoted from JJHLH:

You are incorrect. I looked up the definition of “investment” as you suggested. There are actually 12 meanings according to dictionary.com. One is the following:
“a devoting, using, or giving of time, talent, emotional energy, etc., as for a purpose or to achieve something.”
So by definition everyone who was interested in this game and placed a down payment definitely made an investment in it.

Buying a brand new Pinball Machine is NOT an INVESTMENT. It WILL GO DOWN in value. 100% Guaranteed. Any increase in value in subsequent years will be eaten up by INFLATION.

#865 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMagnet:

How awesome would it be to get one of the machines already built with triple disc and moving trunk? I'd say those will sell for a mint later on.

I fear that these machines will get left behind with successive software updates - i.e. thy could drop support for them, rendering them stuck on a poor early code version.

#866 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Did they not do this with Batman 66? I remember going to expo two years ago and just being able to look at Batman. And did you see the price tag on that

You couldn't play Batman at Expo, but they started shipping it a few weeks later. No features were removed.

#867 1 year ago
Quoted from Agima2000:

This is how it looks when the discs fail
» YouTube video

Believe it or not, there is a company that offers off-the-shelf solutions to those kinds of problems; and they are less that 2 hours away from JJP....

http://www.sdp-si.com

Every CNC repair tech knows of them.

#868 1 year ago

I will take D panzer. Just because people put a lot of things in pipes and smoke them!

#869 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

Anyone have a link to yesterday's JJP video? All I see is live stream from 2 hours ago.

#870 1 year ago

They probably just got it updated on you tube.

28
#871 1 year ago

Just canceled my CE order. Cant stand the fact I have agreed to pay for a product and the product has changed for the worse in my opinion with no thorough explanation from the company.

Seems like there is more to the story then what we are hearing.

#872 1 year ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

You couldn't play Batman at Expo, but they started shipping it a few weeks later. No features were removed.

Perhaps it's time to bump that "dark night for Stern" thread.

16
#873 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Perhaps it's time to bump that "dark night for Stern" thread.

Dark nights to sunny days in the span of a few months. How quickly things can change.

14
#874 1 year ago
Quoted from estrader:

Just canceled my CE order. Cant stand the fact I have agreed to pay for a product and the product has changed for the worse in my opinion with no thorough explanation from the company.

Seems like there is more to the story then what we are hearing.

If you watch the youtube video above, they give a complete description of what happened. They struggled with the mech, couldn't make it work. Decided to punt and save the schedule from a perpetual free fall.

My take is that they already took a full quarter slip on their plans. And were looking at least another 1-2 quarter slip attempting to redesign it.

When you watch the above video Eric is transparent, and says he's extremely disappointed about it as well. It was a key innovation for him that he was proud of. And something he really liked as a player.

As a team, and engineer, JJP/Eric had to decide. They all felt it was a compromise, and that the game holds its own still. Lots of the community disagrees. Clearly.

I did go ahead and cancel my order. I was already on the edge, as I liked the game, not the theme. But watching the stream, with the wind gone from their sails, and the new look of the game. Coupled with me being only on the edge I decided I didn't love the game enough to bring one home.

17
#875 1 year ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

My take is that they already took a full quarter slip on their plans. And were looking at least another 1-2 quarter slip attempting to redesign it.

Like your sister-in-law, JJP is always late.

We count on them being late.

I was totally fine waiting (as I'm sure everyone else was) rather than have the best features removed.

(and there is no way it takes 6 months to re-design a concentric spinning disc. You figure out where the weakness is (gearing, bearings or mounting) and fix it)

#876 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Like your sister-in-law, JJP is always late.
We count on them being late.
I was totally fine waiting (as I'm sure everyone else was) rather than have the best features removed.
(and there is no way it takes 6 months to re-design a concentric spinning disc. You figure out where the weakness is (gearing, bearings or mounting) and fix it)

Shit breaks, fix or order a new one. Not sure why they cant offer a refurb service or sell new ones.

#877 1 year ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Shit breaks, fix or order a new one. Not sure why they cant offer a refurb service or sell new ones.

Because then people would complain the part doesn't last and that it's not worth X dollars JJP is asking. I'm with vid on this one. They know what is wrong with it and instead of beefing up the parts, they are abandoning it. Only time will tell how wise that choice was. I think people are more upset at the compounded tweaks put together (trunk + disc). Instead of really losing one feature they are losing 1 big one and one that added dynamics/motion to the toys.

I'm sure the disc was part of their logic to increase pricing by $500. Now that it's gone....well..

#878 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

(and there is no way it takes 6 months to re-design a concentric spinning disc. You figure out where the weakness is (gearing, bearings or mounting) and fix it)

Armchair engineering is always a breeze. There are real world constraints, that present problems (time, cost, etc). Without knowing all the constraints, we can't assume it was practical. Clearly it was a hard pill to swallow when you watch the video. And from their view, they didn't expect it to be the end of the world for the product. So they balanced the importance of the disc (from their view), with what it would take to eventually make it work. It's a risk/reward sort of decision.

Clearly they felt the game held it's own without it. And since they use the machine every day, they have a very clear view of reality. However, the community out cry is what it is.

Sad days for us and them.

#879 1 year ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

They know what is wrong with it and instead of beefing up the parts, they are abandoning it.

You never know. In a couple years they could get the bugs out and release an improved '3 disc LE" model.

#880 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

You never know. In a couple years they could get the bugs out and release an improved '3 disc LE" model.

Black Pearl Edition. $500 surcharge.

#881 1 year ago

I don't think JJP would ever release a new model down the road that would change the gameplay dynamics of the game. Don't all the various WOZ and Hobbit versions play the same? I may be wrong but aren't the differences all cosmetic really?

#882 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Perhaps it's time to bump that "dark night for Stern" thread.

We already did last week.

There are some absolute howlers in that thread. Really funny stuff. I mean, most of it was ridiculously hilarious when it was fresh but those posts ain't aging well!

Quoted from pipes:

I don't think JJP would ever release a new model down the road that would change the gameplay dynamics of the game. Don't all the various WOZ and Hobbit versions play the same? I may be wrong but aren't the differences all cosmetic really?

Yes. One of the best things about JJP games. I didn't notice a single difference between my Dialed in and the Dialed In LE that cost 1,000 more besides the powdercoating. I know there's plenty of other things in there, but in my experience you get the premium experience on a JJP game with their "cheapest" model.

#883 1 year ago

Thanks for the link - that was the video afterall - seemed like a pinball funeral and I couldn't even finish watching it.

It is a sad day indeed as the Ferrari of pinball is no longer that after this massive cut and dash fiasco - like someone took the reins and is purposefully trying to take down the company. So little respect for the simple fact that you can't fundamentally expect to sell a high-end products under these circumstances. I think the hit to their reputation will be greater than the 6 extra months it might have taken to get this right and whoever was behind this decision will have to live with that. Can't even close a trunk I mean it's embarrassing. Very poor collection of decisions made here especially as there were much simpler solutions available like:

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

I like the idea Aurich. But even more simple, why not keep the current mechanism, or something very similar, and just make it less active?
Instead of “spinners” that will ultimately wear out, treat the 3 moving, concentric circles as a combination lock. That way you still have the feature of different insert alignments giving rewards. The circles still move, but only sometimes, and slowly, not violently spinning.
Better yet, make their movements correspond to player shots on the playfield. Each circle moves in a specified direction and number of places based on what the ball hits, putting the player in control of the rewards he receives from the “combination”. The player would have to initiate a sequence to activate the rings, and once the rings are aligned properly, the player hits something to cash in the reward.
The rings will reset back to where they were before, for each players turn, so one player doesn’t disrupt the progress of another.
This takes away the magnet aspect though.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll

I'm so done with all this - Pinball is supposed to be fun and this is just depressing. I'll check in again when Toy Story is revealed and hopefully the lessons learned from this cosmic flop will help. What a shame. Anyway, so sorry for how this all turned out and wish everyone the best. I'm outy here and going to enjoy some of the many other great ways to enjoy this hobby. I'll start off with a game of WOZ - my son loves that game. Bye.

#884 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

I'm so done with all this - Pinball is supposed to be fun and this is just depressing. I'll check in again when Toy Story is revealed and hopefully the lessons learned from this cosmic flop will help. What a shame. Anyway, so sorry for how this all turned out and wish everyone the best. I'm outy here and going to enjoy some of the many other great ways to enjoy this hobby. I'll start off with a game of WOZ - my son loves that game. Bye.

And there it is ladies and gents! Acceptance.

I knew we could get through this together.

#885 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

And there it is ladies and gents! Acceptance.

And a car analogy!

#886 1 year ago

Keep your eye on the ace......

pasted_image (resized).png

#887 1 year ago

AAAAAAAAnd who is doing a mod for the trunk??

#888 1 year ago
Quoted from Axl:

Funny, when I played the proto in Germany a lot of the people I played with during the weekend said: “those discs are annoying, they should just do it with LEDs and move it to the LCD screen instead.”

A pinball is, at first place, a mechanical device.
So its ok to see scores virtualized, but NO game related functions.
Yes , i hate Video Modes. And non physical ball locks.

#889 1 year ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

Armchair engineering is always a breeze.

I hear ya.

But in CNC 100s of companies have gone out of business since the 80s. No manuals, no replacement parts.

Every hour the machine is down, the shop is losing money (kind of like Pinball).

As a repair tech, you don't have 6 months.

You diagnose why the part failed (Bearings, Gearing, Mounting), you measure (is this a Metric or Inch tooth pitch), and you repair.

It ain't rocket science, all this drive technology has been around since the 1600s

#890 1 year ago

In the event the 3x spinning disks did fail there could be an option to disable it and allow the rewards to still occur on screen. Having the 3x spinning disks and map animations work together at the same time would have been pretty cool to see as a player and those watching.

Sigh...I was so close to the disks a few weeks back only to now never see them again

20180327_165820 (resized).jpg

#891 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

In the event the 3x spinning disks did fail there could be an option to disable it and allow the rewards to still occur on screen.

What if it does something like this?

download (1) (resized).jpg

#892 1 year ago

What if they took out the fast spinning feature completely and have the disc spin at low speed to award the combinations in a swaying motion like water in a glass on a ship...sway left a bit, the right alot, then left alot, then right a bit and settle on the awards. So outer ring spins left, inner ring spins right, center right spins left and make it the primary function of the disc. I could get behind that. If you take the spinning out of the fast spiining out of the equation they could perhaps keep the mech. Plus I would be cool and alot sacrifice fast spinning

#893 1 year ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

What if they took out the fast spinning feature completely and have the disc spin at low speed to award the combinations in a swaying motion like water in a glass on a ship...sway left a bit, the right alot, then left alot, then right a bit and settle on the awards. So outer ring spins left, inner ring spins right, center right spins left and make it the primary function of the disc. I could get behind that. If you take the spinning out of the fast spiining out of the equation they could perhaps keep the mech. Plus I would be cool and alot sacrifice fast spinning

Seems reasonable from the armchair quarterback position. Several posts have mentioned it. For some reason JJP either couldn’t figure that out or chose not to pursue it, we’ll likely never know the answer.

#894 1 year ago
Quoted from JoinTheCirqus:

armchair quarterback position

Mine. Still think it would work!

b5a7948fdde8cdddb075d30c6a6523f9da34a666 (resized).jpg

#895 1 year ago

They literally would have been better off leaving the old mech in and just have the little center disc spin. Or hell none of them spin at all. Or with a disclaimer ehhh we will fix it later type thing. But we need to ship now.

The new mech is a serious eye sore. The new mech needs lights or something to spice it up. Its just plain ugly. And that (Pizza) is the worst of all this. Go back to the original video and as soon as it shows the picture of the new mech, The mass majority puked a little bit in their mouths. And thats literally what started all of this. So any other idea at all then what they put out there would have been better.

#896 1 year ago

Well, let's move on to the next one. No sense dwelling on the past.

#897 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Well, let's move on to the next one. No sense dwelling on the past.

That's true.

I've got another POTC that still works great.

#898 1 year ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

If you watch the youtube video above, they give a complete description of what happened. They struggled with the mech, couldn't make it work. Decided to punt and save the schedule from a perpetual free fall.
My take is that they already took a full quarter slip on their plans. And were looking at least another 1-2 quarter slip attempting to redesign it.
When you watch the above video Eric is transparent, and says he's extremely disappointed about it as well. It was a key innovation for him that he was proud of. And something he really liked as a player.
As a team, and engineer, JJP/Eric had to decide. They all felt it was a compromise, and that the game holds its own still. Lots of the community disagrees. Clearly.
I did go ahead and cancel my order. I was already on the edge, as I liked the game, not the theme. But watching the stream, with the wind gone from their sails, and the new look of the game. Coupled with me being only on the edge I decided I didn't love the game enough to bring one home.

So above you say they give a complete description but below you say we dont know "all the constraints, we can't assume it was practical." Which is why I'd like a thorough explanation from Jack. Why didnt it work and why cant they fix it.

Quoted from OnTheSnap:

Armchair engineering is always a breeze. There are real world constraints, that present problems (time, cost, etc). Without knowing all the constraints, we can't assume it was practical. Clearly it was a hard pill to swallow when you watch the video. And from their view, they didn't expect it to be the end of the world for the product. So they balanced the importance of the disc (from their view), with what it would take to eventually make it work. It's a risk/reward sort of decision.
Clearly they felt the game held it's own without it. And since they use the machine every day, they have a very clear view of reality. However, the community out cry is what it is.
Sad days for us and them.

#899 1 year ago
Quoted from estrader:

Which is why I'd like a thorough explanation from Jack. Why didnt it work and why cant they fix it.

What good would this do anybody? How could this possibly help the company, or in fact, the consumer?

I think Eric's explanation was thorough enough.

#900 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Well, let's move on to the next one. No sense dwelling on the past.

I'm sure we're all going to be just as frustrated when we find out that potato head ball lock won't be making it into the final production model of Toy Story.

download (2) (resized).jpg

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