Yes.

I think POTC is having such a hard time with a feature being lost as it's the features themselves that originally got peoples attention. POTC cannot fall back on licensed music, actor audio and actor video being in the game. Licensed assets in a movie themed pinball machine at this price point are critical in my opinion. However, Pirates originally had enough cool features where the lack of certain licensed assets didn't matter to most buyers. Now that the story has changed a lot of buyers are on the fence or have cancelled.

Is the ship still going to be outfitted with sails as they previously mentioned?

Or did they mothball that idea too?

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Exactly. And that describes Levi. But that’s probably your point.

At least it still has that upper play field that rocks back and forth sort of like that Indiana Jones contraption.

I have been lurking since the news broke, but felt that it was time to post. I am going to pull my deposit tomorrow, buy something else and see how it plays out. I may still be an owner, but not when I feel like POTC is now a stock I would short.

I wont be surprised if i pick an LE up next year for $8.5k. Right now I simply dont want to be on the bleeding edge after all of this played out like this.

They didn't mention it in the stream. Somy guess is that got "tweaked" too.

Did the original WoZ ECLE's contain a precious gem or gems as "they" previously mentioned?

Same answer here....

This is how it looks when the discs fail

I really think the new solution is the worst of all worlds.

So, the 3 didn't work, allegedly. If a feature doesn't work, get rid of it completely.

Solution.

Have no noisy disc - just the artwork and colored inserts in the playfield.

All the spinning takes place on the LCD.

No noise, no 1972 spinner, and it has the same aesthetic appearance that it had at reveal.

And zero maintenance.

Wouldn't this be simpler and look better?

I guess not as otherwise it would have been done. ( and if more development time try a magnet or two underneath ).

Oi. Make the link work Im really curious

Totally agree. At this point I’d go for keeping the original aesthetics then the virtual spinner via the display

After watching the stream this bodged compromise fails on every level. Looks like a piece of crap,which is such a shame

It makes sense to me. It looks the same as the original.

Then you make the virtual spinner into a feature that is totally new to pinball and promote that.

On the LCD it would be kind of similar to a wheel of fortune.

Maybe co-ordinate the compass dial to choose an item on the spinning virtual wheel? So the compass spins as the virtual disc spins?

People love wheel of fortune type spinners and it's kind of ready to be done ( minus the programming ).

I think it would add a ton of fun to the game and keep to the original idea.

Anyway what do I know!

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Ohh yes. Take more features away. That will totally stop the pinside meltdown.

BTW I kind of agree with you but it just wouldn't go down well after all this.

It sounds like removing the single disk completely and replacing it with 3 magnets would be a better solution at this point. At least with 3 magnets the effect on the ball would be more noticeable and the disk area could be replaced with artwork that completely blends in with the rest of the playfield.

The single disk looks out of place, doesn't affect the ball that much and the artwork on / around it takes away from the rest of the playfields artwork in a bad way.

Ouch.

Wow. 17 pages on a spinning disc(s). Some people on here need to get a grip. It's still a great game that JJP are obviously making more reliable for their customers. Just a thought but why no give them some positive comments and help the people that create and further your hobby rather than shoot them down. Makes no sense to me.

So you're keeping your order then?

Can't wait for your review once you unbox it and set it up in your house. So excited for you!

It’s not just about spinning discs.

More like no triple spinner compounded with single spinner which they decided to slap shit art on and then also decided we don’t have time to make treasure chest open and close.

All this while maintaining same price point.

I don’t have an issue with changes but you have to make it look good which they didn’t. They really should have tried to minimize the cuts by at least making the chest work.

Just my 2 cents

I get where people are coming from. I think I would be pretty salty too, if I had wanted one of these in the first place.

I am wondering if/what/how this might affect JJP#5 and beyond.
A more conservative approach to innovative features? Game reveals closer to start of actual production? Anything?

Going forward They probably shouldn’t launch so soon. I think it’s reasonable to announce the name/theme title early but hang onto the prototype machine until it’s ready for launch like Stern. No pictures either until ready.

I know JJP wants to be a high end maker but part of the problem now is that people don’t feel the value is there anymore to warrant such a high price.

Maybe JJP needs to find a way to get costs under control without sacrificing quality and innovation, not sure?

If potc was priced 7500,8250,9500 based on the revised machine, buyers likely wouldn’t be jumping ship.

I know this isn’t going to happen however.

Game will still be great but can't help that I feel like this.

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You must have missed the 17 pages praising the three spinning disks feature.

Here you go:

I am POSITIVE that this more reliable, "tweaked" release of PotC will sell far fewer than what was expected to the home collector market.

Agree.

"To whom much is given, much is expected" - love this quote and fits perfectly here. JJP is given a lotta coin for their product - expectations go up.............. praise for "nice try anyway" go down.

I only watched a few minutes of the new stream but I caught Eric referring to balls being damaged and turned to sand paper. Was it damage from the rings? Is that the real issue? Not that the rings themselves don't work, but that they were damaging balls and that can cause some pretty epic damage to a playfield?

Crying? There's no crying in pinball manufacturing.

I am sorry, but at $9,500-$12,500 the kid gloves come off. At that price level you need to be perfect and really knock people's socks off. Does that make sense to you?

And that's if you don't have to worry about exchange rates and taxes (yes i know its the way it is). In Canada an LE is almost $14.5K and a CE is almost $19K. If you are going to trash a main feature you better think about changing the price. I wasn't on the preorder run because I got Houdini and was planning to get the standard or LE come September but if the only thing they can do is put a disc in the middle of the playfield that spins all the time and doesn't really affect ball trajectory then JJP can kiss access to my wallet goodbye. AP will release the plans for their next game eventually and CGC will announce their #3 so it's not like their aren't any other options out there...that or wait for Toy Story and hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

The size of the disc VS size of the MAP is also an eye sore. It just doesn't work.

I didn't realize my post would upset so many people. I don't have one on order but have played it a number of times and its a great game, with or without a spinning disc.

Have to say, this is real first World problems stuff. It's only a game and you don't have to buy it. Moaning about the price is another ridiculous point. If you can't afford it don't buy it, easy as that. If people getting upset over buying a $9,000 toy, they need to re-evaluate their priorities in life. It's only money people, only money.

This doesn't seem to happen when any other manufacturer makes a change to their product pre release (Ford, Apple, Nike). People don't start demanding a price reduction. With domestic support like this, if I was JJP I'd start looking at manufacturing something else.

You've played it without the 3 spinning discs?

What has Apple done like this? Like Stern, Apple usually doesn't show something till it's close to shipping.

It's likely JJP has the disc mech in a "torture chamber" test room where it's been running 24/7 since last fall. This could reveal failures a home user wouldn't see for years, but an operator might see after a few months.

Why is it that people that have not Made an investment in the subject always have the most criticism on how others should feel about their investment or what is fair? I canceled my CE based on my justification of what was expected. It's called managing expectations. I do still have an LE on tentative order awaiting final final final reveal but for me as a Buyer the CE is absolutely not worth the 12.5K any longer. That is a buyers assessment and feeling.

Must be great to be you. Never feeling disappointment or the need to ever complain about anything. What an awesome life.

This is trivial to you because you are not invested in any way with this product. Did you put a deposit on it right after the reveal? Have you been closely following their progress on the game since October? Watch the streams? Have you been waiting in anticipation for production to start on YOUR game?

Spare us with your sermon on first World problems if you don't mind. I guarantee that there's things you care about that I couldn't give two shits for. Does that make sense to you?

It's only money? Then give me some of yours.

If that's the real Ben Heck that has answered here, you are a legend Sir and well loved here in the UK. Hope you stay in pinball and I've enjoyed following you on many of your projects. I often show my kids your videos and they really are inspirational. Cheers.

Current LE buyer here. Played the machine at TPF quite a few times, no great games with long ball times or anything. I did notice the disks slowing down quite a bit at certain times. Not as bad as the failure video above but clearly there was something wrong. I understand why the mech was removed but really wish it was replaced with spinning disk + magnet because I can see the extra potential.

Still in, still waiting to see all the features the game has to offer before I make any changes to my order (WOZ or DILE).

Not sure what else can/will be done but hoping JJP has something additional to offer.

Ok. This is getting out of hand. You have NOT made an investment. Look up the definition of 'Investment'. You have merely put down a deposit on a product. An investment is something you do for 'gain'.

Indeed it is Sir.

No, I have more sense than that.

Perfect sense.

Damn, you are really out of touch...

With reality? Probably not.

I thought this and related threads would start to die off now that we have the final answers.................guess not.......new fuel.....

Tends to be an acceptable, even encouraged practice oddly. And it is ALWAYS condescending, judgmental, combative, etc. towards the buyers. Incredibly unhealthy. "You don't have to own the game to have an opinion" = CORRECT. Empowering yourself to judge or attack the PEOPLE that have posted an opinion that differs is simply wrong.

I don't have to justify, rationalize, explain to anyone here regarding my choices regarding favorite machines, how much I paid, etc.

This machine had a major feature (imo) removed, and I no longer want it.....done

in the first video Eric made (i didn't watch yesterday's video) he specifically addresses only the home user and never mentions operators. I found it interesting he only mentioned these games being enjoyed in peoples "homes", as if they don't even market this to operators.

I feel we still haven't collectively moved onto Acceptance and closure.

We are past Anger but still in the Denial/Bargaining phase.

Come on guys, he is right. Lets forget the major changes to a game we were excited about, and get back to what pinside is actually about. SOLVING WORLD HUNGER.

Sadly, this was going to be my first pin purchase since selling off almost my entire collection to fund a real estate investment. I played it extensively during Arcade Expo and to my surprise I found the 3 discs more interesting than the moving ship deck. I have no interest in WOZ...I love the Hobbit theme but gameplay is horrendous...DI is a surprise hit for me and if I dont pull the trigger on IMDN premium then I will order DI...but I think I will love IM when I see it in person so JJP has probably lost me as a customer, at least for a few years...
That new revision of POTC looks awful...

Lol. Yeah.

I've entered the acceptance and closure phase, have cancelled my POTC LE pre-order and will soon be ordering a Dialed In LE.

You are incorrect. I looked up the definition of “investment” as you suggested. There are actually 12 meanings according to dictionary.com. One is the following:

“a devoting, using, or giving of time, talent, emotional energy, etc., as for a purpose or to achieve something.”

So by definition everyone who was interested in this game and placed a down payment definitely made an investment in it.

You really took the time to look up the meaning of the word 'Investment'? staggering.

Anyhow, try using the Oxford English Dictionary which is the definitive guide to the English Language. You will find that the context of your post implied the 'mass noun' being the primary definition, ie- gain.

I'm sorry you used up so much 'emotional energy' in putting down a deposit for a toy. I feel for you and hope I can offer help in any way.