(Topic ID: 214634)

JJPOTC Updates for Production


By Hogbog

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Yelobird
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#751 1 year ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

Who was it who made that decal to cover the AC/DC Angus face? whoever it was....time to get to work on POTC.

I believe it was Aurich...but that Aurich got lost in a gap in temporal time warp.

Anyhow...the disc still looks like a pizza to me. I was a "probably" on buying this game but am now going to wait for American Pinball's next offering. And someone mentioned earlier that their trunk on Houdini was working at 90%. Mine is working at 100%. Just zero it in with the adjustments.

13
#752 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Not really. I don't send out parts. That old assembly would have been a nightmare for NJ JJP to deal with.
LTG : )

I guess we'll see if the loss in sales will be a bigger nightmare in the end.

#753 1 year ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

I believe it was Aurich...but that Aurich got lost in a gap in temporal time warp.

Hmm, now that you mention it I didn't have goatee when I made that decal, and I do now, which clearly means I'm the Evil Aurich from the other side of the warp. That does explain a lot.

10
#754 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

The bookcase in TAF gets cracks, and breaks, and the arms that turn it break, from moving and balls bouncing across it. And it doesn't spin in all kinds of directions and at different speeds.

The trunk in TOM cracks and breaks all the time.

It would have been better if WMS glued it in place.

/s

#755 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

When I first saw the mech at Expo, and watched it. A few things crossed my mind. The gear chewing up the teeth on the ring. And the ring/pivot and teeth/gear points from balls skipping across them. A lot of stress in different directions.
The bookcase in TAF gets cracks, and breaks, and the arms that turn it break, from moving and balls bouncing across it. And it doesn't spin in all kinds of directions and at different speeds.
So much going on with the three rings, besides the optos locating positions. They have some of the best people there are in pinball, and if they couldn't bullet proof it. No one could.
LTG : )

Would love to get one of those 3 disk mechs. Would not be difficult at all to substantially improve reliability. Bigger challenge would be coding time involved in accounting for all the permutations.

#756 1 year ago

What a bummer...game is nothing what it once was in my opinion. That spinner barely does anything to the ball. I will be willing to bet they lose more then save with lost sales. Funny thing is I never seen an issue all the time I saw it at Arcade Expo. I was there only Saturday though. If the gears were the issue why not a belt drive system? Oh well I am no engineer...extremely bummed and feel for Eric.

14
#757 1 year ago

I have always been a JJP fan and consider them to make high-end aspirational games like the fully loaded WOZ, but if this is how JJP is gonna play it from now on with the money man at reveals and calling the shots, then I really don't care about Toy Story, Harry Potter, or even a Pulp Fiction, because if they couldn't figure out a spinning mech then I'm not going to believe anything they reveal ever again.

I think POTC will lose most CE pre-orders, tons of long term sales, and most importantly people are gonna call BS on any future JJP reveals...

#758 1 year ago

Afraid to say that this is the new JJP business model. We know the investors want 2-3 games a year so if something is a risk or holding up production then it has to go. In Pirates case time ran out...

Eric sounded gutted in the stream explaining it, feel for him.

#759 1 year ago

Rather than having gear teeth on each disk, being driven by a gear...why not use serrated belts driving the serrated pivot shaft that drives each spinner, driven by stepper motors? Each spinning disk can still have the opto locating fins on each plastic to collect location data.

#760 1 year ago

So when are these games supposed to start shipping to those that pre-ordered at first reveal?

#761 1 year ago

Funny, when I played the proto in Germany a lot of the people I played with during the weekend said: “those discs are annoying, they should just do it with LEDs and move it to the LCD screen instead.”

#762 1 year ago

They might be better off just putting plexiglass over the hole and having the disks run _underneath_.

-20
#763 1 year ago

The trunk....get over it. It is a minor change that is not that noticeable. The triple disk....Yes, it is noticeable, and yes, I am disappointed in the new look, but again, get over it. This game is so much more. Stop hyper focusing on one feature of the game and look at the entire table. That said, the disk should be one or two inches larger diameter.

#764 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

Rather than having gear teeth on each disk, being driven by a gear...why not use serrated belts driving the serrated pivot shaft that drives each spinner, driven by stepper motors? Each spinning disk can still have the opto locating fins on each plastic to collect location data.

Sounds like a problem that could have been solved using an alternate approach. Why wasn't it JJP, Why? Evidently it was going to take some thinking outside the box to fix, yet JJP didn't reach out to any machine shops or buddies to see if they could fix the issue. Have they even explained what the problem was?

-7
#765 1 year ago

One more thing. Please do cancel you LE preorder. It might get me a single digit numbered game.

16
#766 1 year ago
Quoted from danastude:

...the disk should be one or two inches larger diameter.

Get over it.

#767 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Sounds like a problem that could have solved. Why wasn't it JJP, Why?

I have no information as to why, but I can take an educated guess. At the presentation I heard Eric say that the mechanism for the rings was engineered very simple and the best solutions are most often the simple ones, not the complicated. And I agree. And the beancounters agreed, because it was simple and fairly cheap to make, so it fitted the BOM

Except it was probably so simple that it could not withstand the very nature of a pinball machine. And to make it pinball proof it had to get a lot less cheap. Again, that is what I have made of it and I really cannot see it otherwise. I refuse to believe that the guys at JJP like Eric would not be ABLE to make this work, just not in a feasible way.

What does bother me is that they do pin it on the engineers. Again, I may be way off here, but I feel this is not an engineering problem.

#768 1 year ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

I believe it was Aurich...but that Aurich got lost in a gap in temporal time warp.
Anyhow...the disc still looks like a pizza to me. I was a "probably" on buying this game but am now going to wait for American Pinball's next offering. And someone mentioned earlier that their trunk on Houdini was working at 90%. Mine is working at 100%. Just zero it in with the adjustments.

hmm, both the houdinis on location near me fail 100% of the time. havent seen a trunk lock correctly in probably 30 games. Im sure route games are harder to keep going than in your home, but still its like the major toy in the game and it doesnt work at all on route as far as ive seen.

watched the stream, was shocked how little the disc effected the ball travel. seems trivial to even have the disc. put insert lights in and put a magnet under the playfield and its a better game. imo

#769 1 year ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

Rather than having gear teeth on each disk, being driven by a gear...why not use serrated belts driving the serrated pivot shaft that drives each spinner

Probably would never see 90,000 miles in home use.

download (resized).jpg

#770 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

I have no information as to why, but I can take an educated guess. At the presentation I heard Eric say that the mechanism for the rings was engineered very simple and the best solutions are most often the simple ones, not the complicated. And I agree. And the beancounters agreed, because it was simple and fairly cheap to make, so it fitted the BOM
Except it was probably so simple that it could not withstand the very nature of a pinball machine. And to make it pinball prooof it had to get a lot less cheap. Again, that is what I have made of it and I really cannot see it otherwise. I refuse to believe that the guys at JJP like Eric would not be ABLE to make this work, just not in a feasible way.

But we haven't heard from JJP what the exact problem was, right? Many great theories, I've learned a lot, but what did JJP say the reasons were for making the disc changes? (not the bs reason - it wasn't reliable, but an exact explanation).

18
#771 1 year ago

I requested a refund on my potcle ... just not the same pin now and 9500 is alot of money for just a so so theme for us....

#772 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

But we haven't heard from JJP what the exact problem was, right? Lots of great theories, that I've learned a bit from, but what did JJP say the reasons were for making the disc changes?

Eric said in his announcement that it was reliability problems with the rings and for the chest they got a lot of rejects of good shots to the chest which should have entered the chest and locked the ball.

-11
#773 1 year ago
Quoted from tacshose:

I think POTC will lose most CE pre-orders, tons of long term sales, and most importantly people are gonna call BS on any future JJP reveals...

This won't be the case at all. More than likely this REALLY won't affect sales. Maybe 100 people are upset enough to cancel orders? IF this affects sales... they will be less transparent about the engineering/manufacturing process going forward and avoid conversations like these entirely. JJP will still continue to make amazing machines that perform reliably. We'll just know less about how they got there.

#774 1 year ago

So no other video communication from JJP about it since Friday, and then they show the single disc in the game and say it is changed and proceed playing games on it. .. reliability problems with the rings, right? Remind me what that means?

#775 1 year ago

Watched the stream. Still have a hard time thinking of a more packed game. I don't see any naked posts, most times you will at least hit a stand up target and advance towards one of the many goals in the game.

I am still keeping my preorder for an LE. I really want to see the map in action during a game, not the disk but the awards. It will be interesting to see how it affects gameplay (plundering, bonuses, etc.)

Also want to see how the constellations work with gameplay.

Still a few features to flesh out and am looking forward to it.

#776 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

JJP needs to at least consider adding the 3x disks back to the game but then pull the hardware out of it that allowed it to stop at specific spots. Perhaps that was the issue? If so let the 3 disks just spin, let the awards occur on screen (animations look great), and then the ball can still have the movement effects everyone had been used to. I think that would make nearly everyone happy.
It's not seeing the awards themselves line up on the disks line up that everyone is missing but rather the physical affect they had on the ball.

I didn’t watch the video yet. Did Jjp ask pinside for suggestions to make the three spinning disk functional and back in the game? If so, it’s awesome they’re being receptive to customer feedback.

#777 1 year ago
Quoted from dontpanicflip:

We'll just know less about how they got there.

And maybe that is how they should do it. I think that if I had not seen the rings for 8 months and played on the machine with them in it, I would be not so turned off by the machine as it stands now. I will always think of the rings if I buy that machine now. I know that might sound stupid, but that is how I am rigged I guess...

#778 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

So no other communication about it since Fri and the stream shows the new disc and then proceeds. Then nobody has added any meat to the vague explanation ... reliability problems with the rings, right? Remind me what reliability problems with the rings, means?

In fairness for Eric he did explain at one point. I’m sure it will be posted on you tube.The mechanism has issues I believe this, Just look at it you can tell it would have issues

#779 1 year ago
Quoted from dontpanicflip:

This won't be the case at all. More than likely this REALLY won't affect sales. Maybe 100 people are upset enough to cancel orders? IF this affects sales... they will be less transparent about the engineering/manufacturing process going forward and avoid conversations like these entirely. JJP will still continue to make amazing machines that perform reliably. We'll just know less about how they got there.

They were only "transparent" because they had no choice. It's all about damage control now. Don't kid yourself about the "transparent" thing either. They sat around thinking of the best way to break the news to us whether it's true or not.

#780 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

They were only "transparent" because they had no choice. It's all about damage control now. Don't kid yourself about the "transparent" thing either. They sat around thinking of the best way to break the news to us whether it's true or not.

What else do you expect them to do,when you realize you have a issue you feel can’t be fixed
Not a perfect world at all

#782 1 year ago
Quoted from danastude:

The trunk....get over it. It is a minor change that is not that noticeable. The triple disk....Yes, it is noticeable, and yes, I am disappointed in the new look, but again, get over it. This game is so much more. Stop hyper focusing on one feature of the game and look at the entire table. That said, the disk should be one or two inches larger diameter.

Kind of hard not to stare at a huge hunk of shit spinning in the middle of the pf.

Just saying....

18
#783 1 year ago

1st Strike...........The price
2nd Strike...........Very Limited movie content
3rd Strike............The removal of the disks

Bye bye!

You cannot be the Lamborghini of pinball and not have Lambo doors! If you want to design games only for the “rich”, you better get it right. I will stick with my Super charged Iron Maiden Beetle! Man what a great value!

D744DDBD-9C06-4E12-A5B9-2A81CAF77C82 (resized).jpeg

#784 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

What else do you expect them to do,when you realize you have a issue you feel can’t be fixed
Not a perfect world at all

Of course but some people make it out to be this genius business strategy on their part...like they're doing us this great service by being "transparent". Like I said previously, was their other option to just see if anyone notices?

#785 1 year ago
Quoted from danastude:

the disk should be one or two inches larger diameter.

Guys are always obsessed with inches or over the size of their discs...it’s not the size of the disc, it’s how you use it

#786 1 year ago
Quoted from Coz:

Guys are always obsessed with inches or over the size of their discs...it’s not the size of the disc, it’s how you use it

A hotdog can’t fill a hallway....

17
#787 1 year ago

Maybe if the theme was great? It’s not

Stern just blew out 500 LEs sight unseen on IMDN at $8800 delivered to your doorstep

And people will lose their minds when they see the LE/premium I predict

$9500 plus shipping for this pin. Remember they increased the price $500 over DILE

Looks like $$ man said F it, stay on schedule regardless how it sells.

Next up. Toy Story

23
#788 1 year ago

After playing the machine at the Texas show I came home saying that I was in. I would have bought it on the spot if they were available. $9,500 is a LOT of money to spend on just one machine and it really needed to be special to even begin to justify it. I just don't feel it's Justified anymore..
I have WOZRR75 and DILE, I've owned Hobbit so I'm not someone who is just blowing smoke.
I'm out...

#789 1 year ago

i wonder how long they knew they were going to do this. cause if it just happened with this announcement, that would mean no playfields are done and cleared and cured, am i right?

#790 1 year ago

Comparison of new vs "old" side by side. The "old" game (old is in quotes as I think it looks better) looks more elegant with the 3x spinning disk, everything matches and the trunk I hate to say it looks better in the closed position by default. Hopefully the updated artwork on the new spinning disk ends up matching the rest of the game better.

comparison.jpg

#791 1 year ago

I would love to be given the chance to help on the 3 spinning disk assembly. Given some time, I bet I could come up w/ a solution.

#793 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Eric addressed it. To paraphrase:
-
This is the FINAL design.

It could be, in more ways than one......

#794 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

What else do you expect them to do,when you realize you have a issue you feel can’t be fixed
Not a perfect world at all

At $9,500-$12,500, buyers expect much more than what is being delivered.

#795 1 year ago

Going forward, the idea that JJP shouldn’t show the game until it’s ready to ship is right on.

However, they still have to bring it HARD at that price to sell it!

There is some great shit going on here and the LCD animations are unreal BUT there is competition for our $$$

I think Eric did a great job and Keith is fantastic and I’m ready for Willy Wonka Eric!

-1
#796 1 year ago
Quoted from tacshose:

I have always been a JJP fan and consider them to make high-end aspirational games like the fully loaded WOZ, but if this is how JJP is gonna play it from now on with the money man at reveals and calling the shots, then I really don't care about Toy Story, Harry Potter, or even a Pulp Fiction, because if they couldn't figure out a spinning mech then I'm not going to believe anything they reveal ever again.
I think POTC will lose most CE pre-orders, tons of long term sales, and most importantly people are gonna call BS on any future JJP reveals...

Settle down Beevis!

#797 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Maybe if the theme was great? It’s not
Stern just blew out 500 LEs sight unseen on IMDN at $8800 delivered to your doorstep
And people will lose their minds when they see the LE/premium I predict
$9500 plus shipping for this pin. Remember they increased the price $500 over DILE
Looks like $$ man said F it, stay on schedule regardless how it sells.
Next up. Toy Story

Did you cancel?

#798 1 year ago

I am really on the fence now that things seemed to be locked in (no reference to the 'chest'). I guess that if I could trust that JJP will not later produce a 'Black Pearl Special Edition', I would be inclined to stay the course. But, I'm not and I don't want to end up owning a pinball 'Edsel'. I think it would be wise for me to cancel my existing LE order for now and see what evolves. I agree that even the scaled down game still has a lot of appeal, but JJP seems to consider major changes as 'tweaking' . Thus I think it is likely that we will see a much improved albeit 'tweaked' new POTC sometime in the future. I feel it would be pretty safe for me to to take a 'wait and see' approach. After all, one can still buy NIB WOZ's and TH (both of which I just did); I feel confident that POTC's will be available for quite awhile. Remember that they have never stated an absolute limit to the number of LE's they intend to produce. If, unfortunately, JJP ceases operations before my delayed POTC LE purchase happens, so be it. And who knows? maybe JJP #5 will be the best one ever.

#799 1 year ago

Maybe this is the point where the rubber meets the road.

$9500 plus shipping has to check all of the boxes and then some and even then it’s still crazy. Stern too

$500 increase is not “crumbs”

Finally a wake up call?

16
#800 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Did you cancel?

Joe has my deposit

I’m getting AC. Love it, it’s different

So $$ is prob going to CGC

$12.5k for a CE was crazy before. It’s insane now

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