While I did cancel my CE order I must admit I do still have my order and deposit still locked for an LE. For Me, I just did not feel the changes justified the exclusivity or 3K up-charge. I guess I was hedging my bets from the start shame on me. This Is an incredible game No question granted the changes are rather drastic with minimal explanation but time will tell what they come up with. LE seems to be a fair bet for now for Me anyway.

Regarding the map detail at update. (Pizza as its been called). I actually asked Eric about this at the MGC show and Holly Wow if his answer wasn't 100% fact. The map they originally had on the prototype was something JJP created. The actual Movie map is what they went with on the revised version granted I suspect this was as seen a Low Res possibly spinning photoshop illustration of what we seen. Could be wrong? But he did say he was surprised as this is the True map from the movie which they thought would be more correct given the changes. The map photo below is from the actual movie. Granted its not spinning or photoshopped but for me it does look pretty cool. Not as cool as the JJP created one but rather nice. My guess is we will see and hear more Wednesday. No ship in the bottle topper for me but I am also not fully jumping ship just yet.....

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Seeing the map explained by Eric in the SDTM video below (starts right at map part) really makes me realize just how cool of a toy it is and how much of a bummer that its no longer in the game...

If this change was done a month or two after the Expo reveal, ok fine. 6+ months though? That's a big part of why customers are upset.

The LCD map animations are awesome...but they will never replace the magic of a physical toy. Bummer

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Yeah, I'm sure it will look a lot better in person.

heres a solution to the disc problem that solves a few issues, among them the BOM for JJP and the lack of genuine movie footage and soundtrack for customers.

JJP can replace the 3 disc hole with a $20 CD/DVD player, tie it into the LCD screen, and buyers can play one of these during gameplay. owners will get original movie footage and soundtrack while still getting ball spinning effects at 500 RPMs.

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If reliability and noise was an issue on the multiple spinning discs, then why not fix the fkr?
And that open trunk is total bullshit. If you can’t open and close a trunk, time to pack it in.
Other than that machine looks great!

Yes but this is missing the point.

The point is that it's TOO OBVIOUS NOW that the SURROUNDING playfield art and the SIZE of the disc itself WOULD HAVE NEVER been designed like that by Eric or anyone else IN THE FIRST PLACE and Eric would be the first to admit it if he could.

(sorry, caps used not to shout it out but just for mild emphasis)

What if this is actually happening because of the Curse of the Black Pearl?!?

I think that this would look good: a clear spinning disc with 3 decals (the 3 discs) and some space between the disc decals.
Then some nice lights or flashers under the disc voor a cool lightshow...

That looks alot better, I could live with that. I think it would look good with some gold through it.

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I agree about the sticker esthetically; this looks far better as there is depth and vibrance. The one in the video appears washed out.

I still hope that the solution is not just a spinner with a sticker on it and a ring to fill the balance of the hole.

Me too but I don't think they have a choice in it now. As a trade off with something they can do is I would love to see a video mode where you get to shoot cannons at at ships with their animations it would look sick.

That would be awesome!

I knew it was a Photoshop as soon as I saw it. And I familiar with the pics of the actual map online. However I keep thinking the one in the movie had better detail to it. I'm going to go back and try to watch it tonight to see if I'm right in that. But either way I think the map needs some led inserts to snazzy it up a bit.

Just my opinion I think it would be more exciting than rolling dice but you can have more than 1 video mode IJ has3

Agreed

http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Mao_Kun_Map

Movie Map

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Alright this thread has gone too far it has made me agree with Keefer

That's Bullshit I have a $1500 non refundable deposit down that's why I'm so invested , my dealer is a top bloke so if I asked nicely I'm sure I could get my money back but he doesn't have to !

I just heard in the first few seconds of Kanedas latest pinball podcast that Eric asked him to postpone, the podcast had been scheduled for Monday morning apparently. Kaneda said that JJP "is clearly going through damage control and figuring out their next move".

At the very least you should be able to move that to another game. Your distributor isn't on the hook for anything right now.

That's good. JJP will listen and make some changes. It would be great to find a way to make the original design work.

Realy?!?

No question those features need to be in the game. Take your time and fix it. Already been waiting whats a little more. Hopefully penny pinching and a lack of paitence are not the problem.

I feel terrible for the preorder people who cannot get their money back. If I had preordered this I would be out unless all features are in the game i intended to buy.

All that said. The game as originally intended looks amazing. Please keep it that way.

My Houdini trunk is hitting in the low 90% range on accuracy.
Apperently Joe Balcer should have stayed at JJP. Joe,Thanks for coming over to American Pinball and making a great game!

Eric had to cancel on the Podcast until they get things worked out. So instead, I'm on it. I think I've got it all worked out!

Ok so they have say 1000+ playfields with giant holes in them. I would changed the code to where the left ramp whirlpool drop hole held the ball and A ball would be kicked out to Davey Jones locker a new lower Playfield. Route the edge of the hole add a large lens and make an under water looking playfield.
They could make it relitively quick and it would tie in great. Be creative with the problem rather than patch over the hole.

Some have questioned:

Why did people amp up their rhetoric in JJPOTC threads after learning about the proposed pizza spinner? Why did so many people come out with alternate spinner concepts? Why did people announce they were cancelling orders and almost 200 people to date have threatened to not buy a POTC? The answer to those questions is mostly the same - because people care. People want POTC pinball to succeed and for POTC to be the kind of pin they want to own. We could have said," it suks, pass, I'll see how Houdini, ACNC, Maiden or Monster Bash play". Instead, we choose to stand and fight.

Considering how much pins sell for, potential buyers of a nib game expect something fantastic. And this is where JJPPOTC scratched the itch. It included so much that I was persuaded to buy one. Mind you, reaching this conclusion was an exercise in mental gymnastics. When I first heard prices, I said no way would I spend $9k for an LE pinball or any pinball. As I watched gameplay video by JJP crew, listened to Keith explain rules and I heard Eric's passion, I shifted to wanting one. This gave way to my planning how to pay for one and finally to being ready to buy one when it becomes available. That shift in consciousness signals I am now 100% emotionally invested in buying a POTC. Nobody is holding a gun to my head, but I want one.

Then along comes Pizzagate. I do not like the proposed single spinner and neither do many of you. So we do the only thing we can do, threaten to (and act to) cancel orders, complain how bad it is and offer solutions to a problem that has yet to be defined by JJP. The hope is that JJP will hear the feedback and reconsider. Threatened cancellations not only highlight that one less pin will be sold to a potential customer, but they also convey the reason for the lost sale. I interpret the threats to walk and suggestions for fixing the discs as a way to tell JJP, if you change course and adjust your solution, I will still be a customer. However, ignore the warning and suggestions at your peril. JJP will decide what to do, but cause and effect is real.

So there you have it. Eric made announcement Friday night. Pinside blew up Fri night thru Mon. Jack is still out of country. Today is Tuesday and we wait.

That would have been a terrible move by Eric at this time. What more could he say?

Time to hear from Jack tomorrow

They haven't run the playfields yet, we only saw the proposed changes to mech and artwork 3 days ago. The design needs to be finalized first.

Another option would be to close the hole all together, rejig the art on the playfield. Reduce the price and compete even more with AP's houdini? Just a thought.

Oh yes! I'm sure there is going to be a big meeting on how to handle this. A few people contacted me and thought my solution was pretty good! (having the center ring be an LED screen with the moving circle around it) The 2 led rings would only have to line up with the one moving ring.

Eliminating the spinner altogether, but leaving the artwork and inserts is my second favorite solution. That by itself is not too bad an option. It could refined by adding some lit led's shining through the inserts to convey movement. While I would rather have a state of the art triple spinner, if I can't have that, I'd settle for none. I wouldn't expect JJP to lower offer prices under any scenario and you can expect they will raise them after production ramps up. One truth unites us - agreement that the proposed single spinner is a fail.

That would be great if they could pull it off!

Pricing needs to be factored in if they decide to remove the mech. You can't charge for something you remove, the perception from clients won't be good.

A lot of people suspect the playfields are already made. Don't they take some time to cure after finishing? I have not seen any definitive answer from JJP on the question of if they are already made.

I agree with this concept. They could also add to it later down the road with even cooler stuff. A short maelstrom clip, or a cannonball explosion when you hit the ship.

There is ZERO chance Jack let's this stand the way Eric explained it.

He is the ultimate sales guy and sales guys don't like losing sales!

They will figure out a way to make it work.

Don't think JJP would have run 1000 playfields with a big hole and the new artwork just shown. If they were run, it is more likely that they would still have the big hole but it would have been printed using the original artwork, which is now obsolete. If they switched back to the original 3-circle design, JJP might be able to use the playfields afterall. You are probably talking about a maximum $500k worth of playfields, but much less if they only ran 100 or so. If those need to be destroyed and reprinted, chaulk it up to learning experience (don't order 1000 playfields before finalizing design!).

I agree, with all the testing that was still needing done and coding, I would think the most they made was twenty maybe even fifty.

I thought when the investors bailed Jack out he lost most of the control of the co. ?

I have preordered the DI Le before the JJPPotc was announced / shown and was a litte bit frustraded, having spend my money for the DI instead of the Potc2.
Full of cool mechs and pleasure to look at.
Now, it is only another machine with a fireball spinning disk and a moving playfield, as partially seen in wms indiana jones.
So, lost interest.

If you watch the reveal from Expo with the $$ guy there and his comments as well I can't imagine either one of them expected this and will make it right.

Jack still runs the day to day operations.

Keith, thanks for sharing this.

Understandably everyone is beyond curious to see where this all goes and you can see a myriad of input from those who are still interested and would like to stick it out. It would be good to know if there is any consideration here aside from just the spinner as a replacement but if you can't share too much at this point can you confirm if the playfields will have the smaller hole? Would the spinner also have a magnet(s)?

Thanks.

Thanks Keefer! You're a fine upstanding man for braving these waters. Disc looks very un-pizzalike in high res.

I'm really annoyed by the measures! After all, I pay for the CE almost € 15k in Austria and I expect that I also get what I have ordered and not a slimmed down version of it.
Especially the 3 discs were innovative and I really liked it. And that one does not manage to open and close a lid properly, may not be true. Then you just have to redesign it or use other materials. After all, I like to pay a high price for these things.
That's about the same as when I order a Porsche Turbo and is delivered a aspirated engine with 100 hp less - for the same money. Nobody would just accept that.

I am an avowed JJP fan, since the first hour with it and bought all machines but unfortunately with this action he has really, really disappointed me.

Gerry

Thank you for the picture.

Still don't like it - want the triple discs! Seems like other pins already out there. It really needs lights behind some of the symbols or something to make it stand out.

some cool stuff in there. I like the scared mouse.

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I'm fortunate that I was interested on this but thought I'd wait until I'd played it a bit more but even if I'd put my money down I'd be getting my money back. They've substantially changed was was on offer and aren't delivering what you ordered, EU law protects you for this.

Neil.

Just Need to find Some way to put the LEDs back into the rings. There is no way that would be overly complicated or mechanically problematic. Map ok, LED it!