jjPirates of the Caribbean Troubleshooting/Tips/Issues jjPotC Tech

https://www.amazon.com/Warmstor-3-Pack-Desktop-Button-Computer/dp/B072FMVZJZ

Quoted from LTG:
The momentary jumper simulated the push button on a computer. Power supplies don't start on their own anymore. The motherboard starts them. So when you jump start the mother board, you start the power supply up and off you go.

The problem can happen on it's own, kind of rare. The usual cause is turning the game on, and then back off before it is fully booted up. Happens a lot around the holidays when people not familiar with pinball get at your games. That is why we don't see too much of it and then all of a sudden a run on it.

This makes so much sense. Thanks for the explanation.

#2302 4 years ago

VIC

JJP really should make this a standard installed item on the outside of the computer case in the head, but until that happens, you can get a prewired momentary switch to just hook up yourself and leave on the outside of the computer case in the JJP machines so it's much easier to fix if it happens again. Here's one I found on Amazon with a quick search (a pre-wired 3 pack for $5), I'm sure there are others, too:

#2303 4 years ago

???

GnarLee

Pinside member

San Antonio, TX

5y 34,050 506 2

Quoted from zaphX:
Glad the machine came back. Kids beating on my pins stress me out.

Could be worse. Had the uncle who likes to drink a bit come over. He saw me play while nudging the machine. He decides to play and is banging the machine left and right a couple inches at a time. Lets just say he was good at tilting the machine. Luckily he lost intrest after his second game.

#2304 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

Argh. Bad luck for me.

My POTC PC is not booting. I confirmed it’s getting 120VAC to the side plug.

I’ve tried shorting the reset pins. Nothing.

Argh what do I do? Help @LTG!

#2305 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from zaphX:
Argh. Bad luck for me.
My POTC PC is not booting. I confirmed it’s getting 120VAC to the side plug.
I’ve tried shorting the reset pins. Nothing.
Argh what do I do? Help LTG!

You mean the power going into the ATX power supply in the computer box? You have power to that, but no LEDs lit on the motherboard?

I'd power off and try reseating the connectors on the computer motherboard inside the metal computer box, starting with the large main ATX connector above the CPU/FAN.

#2306 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
You mean the power going into the ATX power supply in the computer box? You have power to that, but no LEDs lit on the motherboard?
I'd power off and try reseating the connectors on the computer motherboard inside the metal computer box, starting with the large main ATX connector above the CPU/FAN.

Correct. Nothing on the mobo but I know he is getting AC. I measured across the two pins for jumpering the PC and it reads 3.3v. But shorting them does not bring the PC to life.

No fans no lights.

Other fuses look fine.

1B7C8008-D057-4BB4-8D38-23634CFEAB94 (resized).jpeg

#2307 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

Also worth noting: I had a strange event yesterday where the machine shut down in mid game. I powered off and back on and it was then fine.

Possibly related, I don't know.

#2308 4 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,991 24 7

Quoted from zaphX:
Argh what do I do? Help

I'd turn the game on and try shorting the two pins again.

If that doesn't do it, be sure the power supply is plugged in, and grab a meter and start checking voltage leaving it and to motherboard. Then follow vireland's advice about reseating connectors and be sure they are on tight and you don't have a wire sticking up out of one.

LTG : )

#2309 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from zaphX:
Also worth noting: I had a strange event yesterday where the machine shut down in mid game. I powered off and back on and it was then fine.
Possibly related, I don't know.

That sounds like the power supply protection circuit kicking in. Maybe something is wrong with the power supply. Do you have another ATX power supply from an old computer you can swap in?

#2310 4 years ago

GMB

bigdaddy07

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from zaphX:
Also worth noting: I had a strange event yesterday where the machine shut down in mid game. I powered off and back on and it was then fine.

Possibly related, I don't know.

It's strange that you are getting power to the jumper pins, but that jumping them is not working. Are you sure you are hitting the correct pins? Maybe double-check?

#2311 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

After spending the last hour flipping out, the game is back alive. WHEW.

I had to short the CLR CMOS pins. After doing that, shorting the power pins got it booting again. I was ready to buy a new mobo off Amazon.

#2312 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from zaphX:
After spending the last hour flipping out, the game is back alive. WHEW.
I had to short the CLR CMOS pins. After doing that, shorting the power pins got it booting again. I was ready to buy a new mobo off Amazon.

So the CMOS got corrupted somehow, then? Weird...

#2313 4 years ago

GMB

bigdaddy07

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from zaphX:
I had to short the CLR CMOS pins. After doing that, shorting the power pins got it booting again. I was ready to buy a new mobo off Amazon.

That's good to know. I would think that pulling the battery would have accomplished the same thing as well.

#2314 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from bigdaddy07:
That's good to know. I would think that pulling the battery would have accomplished the same thing as well.

Me too, and I did try that with no effect. I am guessing the CLR CMOS pins load the CMOS with a default set from the ROM.

#2315 4 years ago

???

GnarLee

Pinside member

San Antonio, TX

5y 34,050 506 2

Pulling a cmos battery does not immediately kill the settings. There will still be a small amount of power lurking in capacitors and such. The best way to ensure all the power is gone from a motherboard is to hit the on/off (short pins) while it is disconnected from power. You can also use this trick when you trying to reset most electronic devices. Ever notice how you can pull the power on something but the power led will run for 30 seconds to 5 minutes with no power. This is the residual power hanging out in the caps being drained. Try to turn the device on before reconnecting power and the led will go out. Device will try to turn on and expend the residual energy.

#2316 4 years ago

MAP

MurphyPeoples

Pinside member

Quoted from zaphX:
Me too, and I did try that with no effect. I am guessing the CLR CMOS pins load the CMOS with a default set from the ROM.

Can you post a pic of where you shorted the CLR CMOS pins for future reference in case another owner has this issue?

#2317 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from MurphyPeoples:
Can you post a pic of where you shorted the CLR CMOS pins for future reference in case another owner has this issue?

Here's a summary for fixing a no-boot JJP machine.

If you have the H81M motherboard...
fix-dead-jjpotc (resized).jpg

OR if you have the H110 motherboard, it looks like this...
fix-dead-jjpotc-H110_mobo (resized).jpg

OR if you have the newest H310 motherboard, it looks like this...

fix-dead-jjpotc-H310_mobo (resized).jpg

Post last edited 4 years ago.

Key post

#2318 4 years ago

MAP

MurphyPeoples

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
From the manual...[quoted image]

Man you are always so helpful!! Love it. Thanks

#2319 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
From the manual...[quoted image]

That's actually not right. The CLR CMOS jumper was right underneath the bank of jumpers for the PWR reset, and was indicated as such on the mobo.
I looked up the manual online for the motherboard when I did this:

Screen Shot 2019-11-30 at 6.52.53 PM.png

IMG_1901.jpeg

#2320 4 years ago

MAP

MurphyPeoples

Pinside member

Quoted from zaphX:
That's actually not right. The CLR CMOS jumper was right underneath the bank of jumpers for the PWR reset, and was indicated as such on the mobo.
I looked up the manual online for the motherboard when I did this:[quoted image][quoted image]

Excellent! I wondered about that. I'm not as versed in motherboards like you guys. Great picture!!

Post last edited 4 years ago: “Spelling”

#2321 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from zaphX:
That's actually not right. The CLR CMOS jumper was right underneath the bank of jumpers for the PWR reset, and was indicated as such on the mobo.
I looked up the manual online for the motherboard when I did this:[quoted image][quoted image]

Different motherboard in yours. You have an H110M, while I have an H81M like earlier JJPs.

#2322 4 years ago

DJS

zaphX

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
Different motherboard in yours.

That's interesting. I guess they use a couple different models.

#2323 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from zaphX:
That's interesting. I guess they use a couple different models.

Yours is newer. Guess the H81M are getting too scarce/expensive since they're pretty old and have been in use since The Hobbit.

#2324 4 years ago

GMB

bigdaddy07

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
Yours is newer. Guess the H81M are getting too scarce/expensive since they're pretty old and have been in use since The Hobbit.

The strange thing is that mine was one of the last ones off the line (late May if I'm recalling correct) and I have one of the older boards.

#2325 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from bigdaddy07:
The strange thing is that mine was one of the last ones off the line (late May if I'm recalling correct) and I have one of the older boards.

Probably whatever they had around. Maybe they're transitioning from the 81 to the 110 and using whatever they have on hand.

#2326 4 years ago

JHC

jcoble

Pinside member

Huntersville, NC

7y 50,550 66 10 51

My power supply was DOA, it would not start up despite trying the jumper start technique. Installed a new one, and we are back up and running in time for the Christmas party this week. It would be nice if JJP covered the replacement cost, but it's probably not going to happen since I've had the machine just over a year.

#2327 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

So after the "dead pin" issues two pinsiders had this week and me saying for like the 30th time that JJP should include a momentary switch with their pins since this is not an isolated problem, I decided to stop complaining and just make one for me that covered the power kickstart AND the CMOS clear (for when the CMOS is corrupted, which also prevents booting). It turned out very nice - too nice - so I've decided to add it to the products in the Pin Monk store and sell the kit. It uses one of the three unused cutouts on the CPU box in the JJP backbox to mount to the bottom outside of the CPU box and is totally reversible.

The bracket kit includes 2 momentary switches with color-coded buttons, a housing bracket, top bracket cover, two screws, and an instruction sticker to place above the buttons on the case. I *believe* it will work on all JJP pins using the CPU box in the head (because I am using the unused HDMI cutout in the case, so they need to have this), but working to verify that now. It definitely works with jjPotC, since that's what I developed it on. DEFINITELY improves the process and speed of getting a machine up again where the "boot on power" function of the motherboard has failed since the cover of the CPU case doesn't even have to be removed once this is installed.

Though it technically works for WoZ or Hobbit if you plug it in, there's no proper mounting for it (yet) because the case is different and in the cabinet, but I'll see what I can do about modifying it for those machines with the CPU in the cabinet rather than the head. I should have it in the store next week once I have the costs nailed down and set a price.
JJP_mobo_buttons_sml (resized).jpg

#2328 4 years ago

MAP

MurphyPeoples

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
So after the "dead pin" issues two pinsiders had this week and me saying for like the 30th time that JJP should include a momentary switch with their pins since this is not an isolated problem, I decided to stop complaining and just make one for me that covered the power kickstart AND the CMOS clear (for when the CMOS is corrupted, which also prevents booting). It turned out very nice - too nice - so I've decided to add it to the products in the Pin Monk store and sell the kit. It uses one of the three unused cutouts on the CPU box in the JJP backbox to mount to the bottom outside of the CPU box and is totally reversible.
The bracket kit includes 2 momentary switches with color-coded buttons, a housing bracket, top bracket cover, two screws, and an instruction sticker to place above the buttons on the case. I *believe* it will work on all JJP pins using the CPU box in the head (because I am using the unused HDMI cutout in the case, so they need to have this), but working to verify that now. It definitely works with jjPotC, since that's what I developed it on. DEFINITELY improves the process and speed of getting a machine up again where the "boot on power" function of the motherboard has failed since the cover of the CPU case doesn't even have to be removed once this is installed.
This does not work for WoZ or Hobbit (yet), but I'll see what I can do about modifying it for those machines with the CPU in the cabinet rather than the head. I should have it in the store next week once I have the costs nailed down and set a price.
[quoted image]

Alert me and I'll be your first customer. ; )

#2329 4 years ago

???

EaglePin

Pinside+ Frequent

Downers Grove, IL

5y 109K 3,200 6

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
So after the "dead pin" issues two pinsiders had this week and me saying for like the 30th time that JJP should include a momentary switch with their pins since this is not an isolated problem, I decided to stop complaining and just make one for me that covered the power kickstart AND the CMOS clear (for when the CMOS is corrupted, which also prevents booting). It turned out very nice - too nice - so I've decided to add it to the products in the Pin Monk store and sell the kit. It uses one of the three unused cutouts on the CPU box in the JJP backbox to mount to the bottom outside of the CPU box and is totally reversible.
The bracket kit includes 2 momentary switches with color-coded buttons, a housing bracket, top bracket cover, two screws, and an instruction sticker to place above the buttons on the case. I *believe* it will work on all JJP pins using the CPU box in the head (because I am using the unused HDMI cutout in the case, so they need to have this), but working to verify that now. It definitely works with jjPotC, since that's what I developed it on. DEFINITELY improves the process and speed of getting a machine up again where the "boot on power" function of the motherboard has failed since the cover of the CPU case doesn't even have to be removed once this is installed.
Though it technically works for WoZ or Hobbit if you plug it in, there's no proper mounting for it (yet) because the case is different and in the cabinet, but I'll see what I can do about modifying it for those machines with the CPU in the cabinet rather than the head. I should have it in the store next week once I have the costs nailed down and set a price.
[quoted image]

Nice! You should try to protect this idea/design if you can and charge JJP a royalty if they ever want to do something like it in their original builds.

#2330 4 years ago

LER

Lermods

Lermods Pinball Co.

11y 201K 10,856 58

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
So after the "dead pin" issues two pinsiders had this week and me saying for like the 30th time that JJP should include a momentary switch with their pins since this is not an isolated problem, I decided to stop complaining and just make one for me that covered the power kickstart AND the CMOS clear (for when the CMOS is corrupted, which also prevents booting). It turned out very nice - too nice - so I've decided to add it to the products in the Pin Monk store and sell the kit. It uses one of the three unused cutouts on the CPU box in the JJP backbox to mount to the bottom outside of the CPU box and is totally reversible.
The bracket kit includes 2 momentary switches with color-coded buttons, a housing bracket, top bracket cover, two screws, and an instruction sticker to place above the buttons on the case. I *believe* it will work on all JJP pins using the CPU box in the head (because I am using the unused HDMI cutout in the case, so they need to have this), but working to verify that now. It definitely works with jjPotC, since that's what I developed it on. DEFINITELY improves the process and speed of getting a machine up again where the "boot on power" function of the motherboard has failed since the cover of the CPU case doesn't even have to be removed once this is installed.
Though it technically works for WoZ or Hobbit if you plug it in, there's no proper mounting for it (yet) because the case is different and in the cabinet, but I'll see what I can do about modifying it for those machines with the CPU in the cabinet rather than the head. I should have it in the store next week once I have the costs nailed down and set a price.
[quoted image]

Nice work! Hope I never need it.

#2331 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from EaglePin:
Nice! You should try to protect this idea/design if you can and charge JJP a royalty if they ever want to do something like it in their original builds.

I hope JJP puts something like this on all their machines from GnR forward. It's been needed since day one. If this inspires them to do that on their own, great.

But I'll sell this kit for the thousands of JJP machines already in the wild that don't have this ease-of-use function.

#2332 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

So, a few more iterations to widen the button spacing to prevent accidental presses of the wrong button and make the bracket more stable.

Install_Picture_Kicktap (resized).jpg

#2333 4 years ago

111

KornFreak28

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
So, a few more iterations to widen the button spacing to prevent accidental presses of the wrong button and make the bracket more stable.[quoted image]

I couldn’t find it in your store.

#2334 4 years ago

???

apinballwiz

Pinside+ Frequent

Upper Darby, PA

8y 58,800 495 1 10

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
So after the "dead pin" issues two pinsiders had this week and me saying for like the 30th time that JJP should include a momentary switch with their pins since this is not an isolated problem, I decided to stop complaining and just make one for me that covered the power kickstart AND the CMOS clear (for when the CMOS is corrupted, which also prevents booting). It turned out very nice - too nice - so I've decided to add it to the products in the Pin Monk store and sell the kit. It uses one of the three unused cutouts on the CPU box in the JJP backbox to mount to the bottom outside of the CPU box and is totally reversible.
The bracket kit includes 2 momentary switches with color-coded buttons, a housing bracket, top bracket cover, two screws, and an instruction sticker to place above the buttons on the case. I *believe* it will work on all JJP pins using the CPU box in the head (because I am using the unused HDMI cutout in the case, so they need to have this), but working to verify that now. It definitely works with jjPotC, since that's what I developed it on. DEFINITELY improves the process and speed of getting a machine up again where the "boot on power" function of the motherboard has failed since the cover of the CPU case doesn't even have to be removed once this is installed.
Though it technically works for WoZ or Hobbit if you plug it in, there's no proper mounting for it (yet) because the case is different and in the cabinet, but I'll see what I can do about modifying it for those machines with the CPU in the cabinet rather than the head. I should have it in the store next week once I have the costs nailed down and set a price.
[quoted image]

I'd like one for my WOZ, count me in! Love the stickers too!

#2335 4 years ago

???

apinballwiz

Pinside+ Frequent

Upper Darby, PA

8y 58,800 495 1 10

Quoted from apinballwiz:
I'd like one for my WOZ, count me in! Love the stickers too!

#2336 4 years ago

???

apinballwiz

Pinside+ Frequent

Upper Darby, PA

8y 58,800 495 1 10

dup

#2337 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from KornFreak28:
I couldn’t find it in your store.

Not in the pinmonk store yet, I should have it up this weekend or early next week. I just got this iteration, which I believe is final, completed today. I just have to work out the wire management and it's ready to sell.

Thanks for the interest!

#2338 4 years ago

111

KornFreak28

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
Not in the pinmonk store yet, I should have it up this weekend or early next week. I just got this iteration, which I believe is final, completed today. I just have to work out the wire management and it's ready to sell.
Thanks for the interest!

Thank you for doing this for us!

#2339 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from KornFreak28:
Thank you for doing this for us!

Thanks for that, but don't saint me just yet. I initially did this for me, and it turned out a little too nice, which is when I drifted from thoughts only about me to thoughts about others that might like it, too. The initial impetus was completely selfish.

#2340 4 years ago

LTG

Pinside member

Hopkins, MN

12y 191K 56,991 24 7

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
The initial impetus was completely selfish.

Still very nice the direction you took.

LTG : )

#2341 4 years ago

111

KornFreak28

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
Thanks for that, but don't saint me just yet. I initially did this for me, and it turned out a little too nice, which is when I drifted from thoughts only about me to thoughts about others that might like it, too. The initial impetus was completely selfish.

Thank you for your honesty!

#2342 4 years ago

111

KornFreak28

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from PinMonk:
Thanks for that, but don't saint me just yet. I initially did this for me, and it turned out a little too nice, which is when I drifted from thoughts only about me to thoughts about others that might like it, too. The initial impetus was completely selfish.

May I ask why this is happening to JJP games? What’s causing this issue?

#2343 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from KornFreak28:
May I ask why this is happening to JJP games? What’s causing this issue?

JJP uses PC motherboards. It can happen on arcade games that use PC motherboards (Buck Hunter, etc), too. The "boot on power" optional function built into most (all?) modern motherboards is not perfect. It works almost every time, but every once in a while it does not, and since home pins get turned on and off more than route pins, it seems more common there. Still, it's not SUPER common, but when it does happen, it's nice to not have to take the CPU box apart and find the pins to short. Plus, if you're trying to talk a new pinball owner through the process, colored buttons with simple instructions is the way to go. Hence the reason I've said for a long time I think JJP should have adopted this approach from the factory. It's not expensive, but maybe only have the option pre-installed at the factory on the CEs if that's a concern. A little added luxury and convenience from the factory for JJPs best customers.

Stern doesn't use PC motherboards, so it doesn't happen with them.

#2344 4 years ago

JPR

jrawlinson_2000

Pinside member

19y 64,800 572 29

Does anyone else have issues with the maelstrom ramp with the ball sometimes flying up and off it?
I could dial down the right flipper but I find it about right for the chest any lower power and making the chest shot would be tough.

Would the kraken mod help? i.e. does it kind of have 'lid' thus stopping the ball coming out at the top

Also I find the 2x stand-up is creating air-balls, do these bend backwards (like the TZ stand-up by the slot machine) or are they reinforced.

#2345 4 years ago

DAS

luckymoey

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 105K 2,079 44 1

Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:
Does anyone else have issues with the maelstrom ramp with the ball sometimes flying up and off it?
I could dial down the right flipper but I find it about right for the chest any lower power and making the chest shot would be tough.
Would the kraken mod help? i.e. does it kind of have 'lid' thus stopping the ball coming out at the top
Also I find the 2x stand-up is creating air-balls, do these bend backwards (like the TZ stand-up by the slot machine) or are they reinforced.

I don’t have any issues with the Maelstrom ramp or air-balls. Nothing even approaching flying off and have no problem making the chest. Is your game pitched more than 6.5? The Kraken mod would probably help, and is worth getting regardless, but something doesn’t seem right with your set-up. The chest shot shouldn’t be a problem at standard flipper power.

#2346 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:
Does anyone else have issues with the maelstrom ramp with the ball sometimes flying up and off it?

Sometimes happens if the playfield is freshly waxed and it gets a hard shot on the one here, but that's about it. It's very uncommon.

#2347 4 years ago

LAD

Heater

Pinside+ Frequent

Claremont, CA

5y 50,050 285 2

I can't remember if someone did a fix for this or if anyone is having the problem. Most of the time when the ball comes back out of the Devil's Triangle it goes sdtm. Is it the game or more likely I just suck at it?

#2348 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from Heater:
I can't remember if someone did a fix for this or if anyone is having the problem. Most of the time when the ball comes back out of the Devil's Triangle it goes sdtm. Is it the game or more likely I just suck at it?

Is your machine perfectly level, side to side? Even a tiny bit off can cause this.

#2349 4 years ago

VIC

PinMonk