(Topic ID: 240503)

jjPirates of the Caribbean Troubleshooting/Tips/Issues jjPotC Tech

By PinMonk

4 years ago


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#451 4 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Anything and everything fastened to a clearcoated wood playfield will leave an indentation. Kind of like a steel ball will leave dimples everywhere. Unavailable no matter what you try. It’s pinball

Unavailable?

Was that the word you meant here. I don’t understand in this context.

Well.. if the star post will cause an indention all the same as anything else then I don’t know that I care.

All I WILL “care” about is how it looks ... and plays.

#452 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The problem seems to be on this game is the dimples are leading to cracks and chips. Star post could prevent that... But maybe just preventative mylar could do it before it starts.

Completely agree. Was simply reminding that the primary reason for the star post is the distribute the screw torque load over a larger footprint. This can help minimize a possible crack as the circle footprint is larger but it will still indent into the clear. No way around that unless you don’t tighten the sling screws which I do not recommend. Technically, a flat washer of Any kind is the least damaging solution as it offers a Full surface contact compression. Mylar in my opinion does nothing but keep the chipped pieces in place. It’s all about the downward torque and how evenly and widely is it distributed. Personally I think all of this is overkill as long as the screws aren’t overtightened you should be fine.

#453 4 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Personally I think all of this is overkill as long as the screws aren’t overtightened you should be fine.

That's the question for sure... was this simply the issue from the factory?

I'd love to find a clear, thin washer that would fit a star post exactly. I'll see how the white nylon ones I got from Marco fit, if not I'll check out the amazon options. Seems like someone with a "good" condition playfield would at least benefit from a small washer under the narrow posts (as it seems the factory started doing at some point).

I'll update my image to add a note about the start post necessity.

#454 4 years ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

Unavailable?
Was that the word you meant here. I don’t understand in this context.
Well.. if the star post will cause an indention all the same as anything else then I don’t know that I care.
All I WILL “care” about is how it looks ... and plays.

Probably meant "impossible" or something like that. Playfields will dimple, and indent.. just the nature of the forces of items screwed into the playfield and heavy balls hitting over and over.

#455 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

That's the question for sure... was this simply the issue from the factory?
I'd love to find a clear, thin washer that would fit a star post exactly. I'll see how the white nylon ones I got from Marco fit, if not I'll check out the amazon options. Seems like someone with a "good" condition playfield would at least benefit from a small washer under the narrow posts (as it seems the factory started doing at some point).
I'll update my image to add a note about the start post necessity.

That’s the key here. Before this got blown into a dozen solutions the issue was known and technically simple. The solid post JJP used is Technically the best solution as the base is solid and has a full contact compression. A wide star post (by math) while a larger diameter is Hollow and has a smaller dig in footprint. The root issue was the posts JJP installed had a poor injection mold edge which was Sharp. Add to that the assembly people over torqued them which acted like a sharp chisel cutting through butter!! So to solve this they added a soft washer to counteract the sharp edge, problem solved!

#456 4 years ago

Hi I have the ball getting stuck in the chest and it is not releasing. There is a rubber pad at the back of the chest, is this supposed to be there?

When the game ends the pin tries to release the ball and hunts around the game to find the ball stuck in the chest etc.

Any ideas on this?

IMG_1725 (resized).jpgIMG_1725 (resized).jpg
#457 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Probably meant "impossible" or something like that. Playfields will dimple, and indent.. just the nature of the forces of items screwed into the playfield and heavy balls hitting over and over.

Noted.

Again, my game came with the metal washers. Odd, since games with much higher production dates did not.

The star posts with washer underneath seems like “the” answer.

If indention/dimpling are going to happen “anyways”, then at least the star posts both “better” distribute the load and are prettier while the washer still acts as a nice barrier on top the playfield.

The “million dollar” question is, are the PETG washers “okay” or does the thickness of them create potential new issues with how the game plays and, more importantly, how the sling rubber behaves/reacts.

#458 4 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

That’s the key here. Before this got blown into a dozen solutions the issue was known and technically simple. The solid post JJP used is Technically the best solution as the base is solid and has a full contact compression. A wide star post (by math) while a larger diameter is Hollow and has a smaller dig in footprint. The root issue was the posts JJP installed had a poor injection mold edge which was Sharp. Add to that the assembly people over torqued them which acted like a sharp chisel cutting through butter!! So to solve this they added a soft washer to counteract the sharp edge, problem solved!

Transparency is appreciated.
Thank you.

Again, my game has this fix.

#459 4 years ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

The “million dollar” question is, are the PETG washers “okay” or does the thickness of them create potential new issues with how the game plays and, more importantly, how the sling rubber behaves/reacts.

Maybe... probably... hard to say. Probably would only know after some decent gameplay. Raising them will surely change the geometry where the rubber hits the ball. Will that make a substantial difference? Will it affect gameplay? Will it hurt the playfield more? Who knows? Maybe the posts could be sanded down a bit on the bottom to take off enough material to compensate. I would just play it safer and find a better washer. Once I see what Marco sends me I can either recommend one from there or I'll get one from Amazon and post about it. Others think mylar is a good solution, so maybe that is a better option.

#460 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

Hi I have the ball getting stuck in the chest and it is not releasing. There is a rubber pad at the back of the chest, is this supposed to be there?
When the game ends the pin tries to release the ball and hunts around the game to find the ball stuck in the chest etc.
Any ideas on this?[quoted image]

In coil test mode, does that flap at the left side of the chest move when you fire that coil? (make sure the white post on the inside left of the coin door opening is pulled so you have power to the coils)

It's either a bend needed in that metal flap or your coil to move the flap isn't firing.

#461 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Maybe... probably... hard to say. Probably would only know after some decent gameplay. Raising them will surely change the geometry where the rubber hits the ball. Will that make a substantial difference? Will it affect gameplay? Will it hurt the playfield more? Who knows? Maybe the posts could be sanded down a bit on the bottom to take off enough material to compensate. I would just play it safer and find a better washer. Once I see what Marco sends me I can either recommend one from there or I'll get one from Amazon and post about it. Others think mylar is a good solution, so maybe that is a better option.

I don’t think Mylar is the better option only considering many other pins do in fact have these washers and what Yelobird said made sense.

Do you have the star posts installed or will install them when you try the washers?

I think we can let this topic rest for now and I’ll personally look forward to hearing your result. Feel free to PM me even.

#462 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

In coil test mode, does that flap at the left side of the chest move when you fire that coil? (make sure the white post on the inside left of the coin door opening is pulled so you have power to the coils)
It's either a bend needed in that metal flap or your coil to move the flap isn't firing.

Hi thanks for the feedback, the flap moves but too quick and pushed the ball to the right so by the time the ball gets back to the flap it is closed so it cant escape. Sorry I have no idea what you mean by coils etc and what this issue has to do with the coin door and white posts?

I have a video of what is going on here

so hopefully this will help you see what is happening.

Thanks also for the post reply.

#463 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

Hi thanks for the feedback, the flap moves but too quick and pushed the ball to the right so by the time the ball gets back to the flap it is closed so it cant escape. Sorry I have no idea what you mean by coils etc and what this issue has to do with the coin door and white posts?
I have a video of what is going on here so hopefully this will help you see what is happening.
Thanks also for the post reply.

That's ball search, which isn't helpful because the actual coil release time may be longer in the test or in game.

But it does establish that the coil works.

You probably just need to carefully bend that tab holding the ball on the left OUTWARD a little so when the coil moves it there's more space for the ball to escape.

I have no idea why JJP didn't use a sideways post here. This mechanism is very unreliable IMO.

#464 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

That's ball search, which isn't helpful because the actual coil release time may be longer in the test or in game.
But it does establish that the coil works.
You probably just need to carefully bend that tab holding the ball on the left OUTWARD a little so when the coil moves it there's more space for the ball to escape.
I have no idea why JJP didn't use a sideways post here. This mechanism is very unreliable IMO.

Thanks again, you may have to help me out, the game is new out of the box today, so I am not sue about things like test mode or any other mode. I have set it up myself rather than the dealer etc so am not 100% sure etc. This is my first JJP pin..

Are you saying that to fix the problem on a new 10k pin that I have to actually bend a piece of metal on a brand new machine?

Has anyone else had this type of issue and is this a common issue??

Jeez..........

#465 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

the flap moves but too quick and pushed the ball to the right

Try playing with the Chest Release Fire Time. Page B-37 in the manual. You can download it from jerseyjackpinball.com under Support - Downloads.

LTG : )

#466 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

Has anyone else had this type of issue and is this a common issue??

Tweak things on a brand new game ? Yes.

LTG : )

#467 4 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Anything and everything fastened to a clearcoated wood playfield will leave an indentation. Kind of like a steel ball will leave dimples everywhere. Unavailable no matter what you try. It’s pinball

Does this clearcoat seem any different to you compared to prior JJP games?

-2
#468 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Tweak things on a brand new game ? Yes.
LTG : )

jeez, JJP no better than the others then.......

#469 4 years ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

I don’t think Mylar is the better option only considering many other pins do in fact have these washers and what yelobird said made sense.
Do you have the star posts installed or will install them when you try the washers?
I think we can let this topic rest for now and I’ll personally look forward to hearing your result. Feel free to PM me even.

My plan is to install... I don't have them all yet (I ordered some different colors from different vendors) and I don't have washers yet. I'm going out of town so it will be a while and I also wanted to give time for JJP to respond before I did anything that might damage the playfield in a wider area. So, next week I should have some more details on mine. Unless I hear back from JJP in the next week, I'm done with this topic for now.

#470 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Try playing with the Chest Release Fire Time. Page B-37 in the manual. You can download it from jerseyjackpinball.com under Support - Downloads.
LTG : )

Thanks for this, I will do this, if the time release can be amended that is great, just seems weird that it may be set to so short/small that the ball never gets released. I will have a look and feedback.

#471 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

Thanks again, you may have to help me out, the game is new out of the box today, so I am not sue about things like test mode or any other mode. I have set it up myself rather than the dealer etc so am not 100% sure etc. This is my first JJP pin..
Are you saying that to fix the problem on a new 10k pin that I have to actually bend a piece of metal on a brand new machine?
Has anyone else had this type of issue and is this a common issue??
Jeez..........

Get used to it. ALL pins need dialing in to play at optimal levels.

I didn't know there was a fire time option on the menu. I would definitely start there.

Open the coin door
press the menu button on the inside of the coin door to get to the system menu
go to settings
go to coil settings
move down on the list until you get to the VERTICAL UP KICKERS, then continue a little more to "Chest Fire Release Time" and increase that by 1

#472 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

Thanks for this, I will do this, if the time release can be amended that is great, just seems weird that it may be set to so short/small that the ball never gets released. I will have a look and feedback.

The coil fire times can affect a lot of things that might need tweaking. The ball autolaunch might not deposit the ball where you want it. The slings and coils might be too crazy. The tortuga hole might shoot the ball SDTM. The GREAT thing about JJP games is the plethora of settings and digital control you have over the mechanical function of the game. It also means you have to tweak it, but it's worth it.

#473 4 years ago
Quoted from lexi:

jeez, JJP no better than the others then.......

It’s QUITE a bit “better.”

#474 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

The coil fire times can affect a lot of things that might need tweaking. The ball autolaunch might not deposit the ball where you want it. The slings and coils might be too crazy. The tortuga hole might shoot the ball SDTM. The GREAT thing about JJP games is the plethora of settings and digital control you have over the mechanical function of the game. It also means you have to tweak it, but it's worth it.

Hi thanks everyone for your input. I will try all of the suggestions, so thanks again

#475 4 years ago

On the posts and damage around them, I wouldn’t give it much thought. Mine chipped very early on but 1,000 plays later haven’t gotten any worse.

#476 4 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Does this clearcoat seem any different to you compared to prior JJP games?

Nope no different. In fact basically the same as all vendors.

#477 4 years ago

Installed the Cliffy around the MAP hole today, requiring the Black Pearl to be removed. Removing the rear VUK first makes removing the BP MUCH simpler!!

As I was getting to the MAP hole I discovered the T-nut was protruding into my MAP hole a substantial amount. I then checked the balls I just pulled from the pin and sure enough they has substantial nicks in them. Had to remove the metal subway from underneatth the playfield. Marked the overhang amount of the T-Nut with a fine Sharpie and ground off that extra overhang at the workbench, Reinstalled it and now everything looks perfect.

IMG_6727 (resized).JPGIMG_6727 (resized).JPG
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Reinstalled the BP, hooked up the wires and tightened everything up. Everything tested perfect! Grabbed the playfield glass with gloves on, and without the glass touching a thing, only my hands, it did this:

IMG_6828 (resized).JPGIMG_6828 (resized).JPG

I have handled playfield glass thousands of times, and now this.......Scheiße!!!!

#478 4 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Reinstalled the BP, hooked up the wires and tightened everything up. Everything tested perfect! Grabbed the playfield glass with gloves on, and without the glass touching a thing, only my hands, it did this:
[quoted image]
I have handled playfield glass thousands of times, and now this.......Scheiße!!!!

Only takes ONE time to increase your respect 1000% for tempered glass when handling it. I always pooh-poohed the glass breaking from literally being touched - until it happened to me.

Wouldn't the MAP2 metal piece of the Cliffy set have covered that T-nut protrusion anyway?

#479 4 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Installed the Cliffy around the MAP hole today, requiring the Black Pearl to be removed. Removing the rear VUK first makes removing the BP MUCH simpler!!
As I was getting to the MAP hole I discovered the T-nut was protruding into my MAP hole a substantial amount. I then checked the balls I just pulled from the pin and sure enough they has substantial nicks in them. Had to remove the metal subway from underneatth the playfield. Marked the overhang amount of the T-Nut with a fine Sharpie and ground off that extra overhang at the workbench, Reinstalled it and now everything looks perfect.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Reinstalled the BP, hooked up the wires and tightened everything up. Everything tested perfect! Grabbed the playfield glass with gloves on, and without the glass touching a thing, only my hands, it did this:
[quoted image]
I have handled playfield glass thousands of times, and now this.......Scheiße!!!!

Oh my god.... I'm so sorry.

#480 4 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

I have handled playfield glass thousands of times, and now this.......Scheiße!!!!

Condolences for your loss

#481 4 years ago

I wondered what the hell this was. Cliffy doesn't seem to cover it, no.

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#482 4 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

I have handled playfield glass thousands of times, and now this.......Scheiße!!!!

FUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDGEEEEEEEEE!

I always worry about that.

Thanks for the pics on the map hole. Sad to see that nut protrudes from the factory on multiple games, maybe all. I am going to do the cliffys in a few weeks.

#483 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Wouldn't the MAP2 metal piece of the Cliffy set have covered that T-nut protrusion anyway?

The Map2 doesn’t cover it. I have an extra playfield and if I installed a t-nut it would protrude the same. Based on where the hole is drilled, so close to the map hole, I have to believe this is a more prevalent issue than most realize. I never noticed it until I went looking for it after finding my balls were all nicked up after a few games. It is a real pain in the ass to fix. Bp has to come off along with the subway directly below. On both of my playfields, there is no orientation possible where the T-nut wing won’t protrude into the map hole.

As the hole is already drilled on the bare playfield, I assume they come this way from Mirco and are drilled by a CNC along with the inserts, etc. Stated differently, this is probably not attributable to assembly workers at JJ varying where the hole is drilled. Its my guess that JJ only pounds t-nuts into the existing hole drilled by Mirco. So, I’d be willing to bet that it is on all, if not most, playfields and it has just gone unnoticed.
FB11D966-22CD-4D3A-B9F7-03B2E67264B7 (resized).pngFB11D966-22CD-4D3A-B9F7-03B2E67264B7 (resized).png

#484 4 years ago
Quoted from rs812:

The Map2 doesn’t cover it. I have an extra playfield and if I installed a t-nut it would protrude the same. Based on where the hole is drilled, so close to the map hole, I have to believe this is a more prevalent issue than most realize. I never noticed it until I went looking for it after finding my balls were all nicked up after a few games. It is a real pain in the ass to fix. Bp has to come off along with the subway directly below.

Can the tnut just be removed? What tool removes them anyway?

I can't imagine the glass breaking like that. I'm so sorry.... AUKraut

#485 4 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Installed the Cliffy around the MAP hole today, requiring the Black Pearl to be removed. Removing the rear VUK first makes removing the BP MUCH simpler!!
As I was getting to the MAP hole I discovered the T-nut was protruding into my MAP hole a substantial amount. I then checked the balls I just pulled from the pin and sure enough they has substantial nicks in them. Had to remove the metal subway from underneatth the playfield. Marked the overhang amount of the T-Nut with a fine Sharpie and ground off that extra overhang at the workbench, Reinstalled it and now everything looks perfect.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Reinstalled the BP, hooked up the wires and tightened everything up. Everything tested perfect! Grabbed the playfield glass with gloves on, and without the glass touching a thing, only my hands, it did this:
[quoted image]
I have handled playfield glass thousands of times, and now this.......Scheiße!!!!

I don't understand how this could have happened? Certainly not by touching it "wrong". I can see this happening if the corners of the glass were chipped, doesn't seem like the case here.

#486 4 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Can the tnut just be removed? What tool removes them anyway?
I can't imagine the glass breaking like that. I'm so sorry.... AUKraut

The problem is that it is buried on both sides. The BP on top and the subway on bottom.
Once you get the bottom side bare, you can simply thread the screw in from the bottom and pull the t-nut out.

The t-nut is really just a captive nut that allows you to screw in from the topside without holding onto the nut on the bottom side. As you screw in from the top, the teeth on the t-nut sink into the wood and keep it from spinning.
EB7C3E77-DDE1-4D1C-BFFE-F0AEFDF1687C (resized).jpegEB7C3E77-DDE1-4D1C-BFFE-F0AEFDF1687C (resized).jpeg

#487 4 years ago
Quoted from rs812:

Once you get the bottom side bare, you can simply thread the screw in from the bottom and pull the t-nut out.
The t-nut is really just a captive nut that allows you to screw in from the topside without holding onto the nut on the bottom side. As you screw in from the top, the teeth on the t-nut sink into the wood and keep it from spinning.

Correct, this is exactly what I did. To get to the T-nut you have to remove the metal subway, remove all the screws holding it, and remove 2 of the screws of the plastic subway above it to give the metal subway room to wiggle out. No need to detach the wires, just rest it up higher on the wire harness.

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#488 4 years ago
Quoted from apinballwiz:

I don't understand how this could have happened? Certainly not by touching it "wrong". I can see this happening if the corners of the glass were chipped, doesn't seem like the case here.

Temperature change (cold room, warm hands, or vice versa) or even the slight torque from picking it up. It's definitely a thing. Only happened to me once so far, but I don't put glass on a cold cement floor anymore. Always put cardboard or something else under it.

#489 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Temperature change (cold room, warm hands, or vice versa) or even the slight torque from picking it up. It's definitely a thing. Only happened to me once so far, but I don't put glass on a cold cement floor anymore. Always put cardboard or something else under it.

Yeah, I've seen a couple pop when someone else tried to put one on cement or concrete. Always use carpet or cardboard, but like I said this one was about 3 feet away from where I picked it up. My guess is I put some torque on it.....still shaking my head!

#490 4 years ago

I’m about to get this party started on fixing the BP flippers.

Hopefully I don’t have to come back here...

I have honestly been reluctant to work on this again.

The last time didn’t go so successful and I failed.

So here we go again...

#491 4 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Yeah, I've seen a couple pop when someone else tried to put one on cement or concrete. Always use carpet or cardboard, but like I said this one was about 3 feet away from where I picked it up. My guess is I put some torque on it.....still shaking my head!

I can't believe you had the wherewithal to still write a cohesive post. You didn't get cut, did you?

What kinds of tools can a layman use to trim this blasted t-nut? Might as well get on this asap.

#492 4 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

I can't believe you had the wherewithal to still write a cohesive post. You didn't get cut, did you?
What kinds of tools can a layman use to trim this blasted t-nut? Might as well get on this asap.

Believe me, the colorful metaphors have been FLYING this evening.....couple of scratches on my foot, as I had on sandals. I was wearing neoprene gloves, which saved my hands.

For the T-nut I used a dremel with a cutting disk and sanding drum.

#493 4 years ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

I’m about to get this party started on fixing the BP flippers.
Hopefully I don’t have to come back here...
I have honestly been reluctant to work on this again.
The last time didn’t go so successful and I failed.
So here we go again...

Well...I really, really hate to say this, but I think I have to remove the BP completely...

I just can't seem to fit the metal rod that feeds into the coil...

=/

#494 4 years ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

Well...I really, really hate to say this, but I think I have to remove the BP completely...
I just can't seem to fit the metal rod that feeds into the coil...
=/

F*** !!! ...

#496 4 years ago

I just want you guys to know how I feel right now. That's all.

I'll live...

#497 4 years ago

Truthfully, I'm not sure how removing the BP is going to help all that much.

I guess I'll have a better angle, but that metal plate directly in front of where the rod goes makes it pretty difficult to insert all the same.

But what other choice do I have...

So.

#498 4 years ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

Truthfully, I'm not sure how removing the BP is going to help all that much.
I guess I'll have a better angle, but that metal plate directly in front of where the rod goes makes it pretty difficult to insert all the same.
But what other choice do I have...
So.

Photos of your intended work area?

#499 4 years ago

Coil stops come off. Remove coil. Don't worry about the other end where the metal stop is.

LTG : )

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#500 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Coil stops come off. Remove coil. Don't worry about the other end where the metal stop is.
LTG : )
[quoted image][quoted image]

That's all well and good once I actually get the ship off.
I can't get to the coil stops otherwise.

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