(Topic ID: 241884)

JJP Wonka SE, attracting Op’s?


By Vino

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by smalltownguy2
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Purchasing a Wonka SE?”

  • Yes 7 votes
    21%
  • No 27 votes
    79%

(34 votes)

#1 7 months ago

Wonka SE pricing @ $7500 is designed in part to influence more Ops to buy JJP for route.

Are Ops out there considering a purchase?
Why or why not?

#2 7 months ago

The only thing that matters to me is if im spending 2kish more on one of these rather than a new stern pro, will the earnings justify it?
Same goes when purchasing an LE as opposed to a pro?
I have not seen a difference but maybe others have.
i still like the days of buying stern spiderman, family guy, potc, wof, bbh all for $3750 shipped including a dba. Prices rose way to fast IMO and earnings do not follow the increase in price. its hard.

#3 7 months ago

My experience with JJP games is that parts are slow to get and costly. Hard when previously I had a game nearly twice the cost of Stern Pro (WOZ ruby red) waiting weeks on parts. When a game can not earn for weeks at a time and then parts cost more than weekly earnings, it is not a great business model. I have heard / seen enough horror stories from other local operators to steer clear for now. My older Bally / Williams games and Stern have been more reliable with parts available quickly from multiple locations. I might own a JJP at home, but for now will not operate.

13
#4 7 months ago

I have operated every Jersey Jack game made to date. Most games have been very reliable minus WOZ Emerald City.

Service history on the Hobbit has been good. One major repair that was situated in about a weeks time was the pop up assembly. The entire assembly was replaced by JJP and got the game back to 100%.

Dialed in had no mayor issues, 5 NIB purchased for route. Only minor issues we have had were with the BOB mech on the left orbit. I do feel the design is not great on that and it requires some tweaking but in the end it works. Other than that, no major issues that I am aware of on this title.

JJP Pirates had no major issues, 3 NIB purchased for route. I will say the factory bands on these games did not last long at all. I was disappointed to be replacing many of the bands within 200 plays. Some of the locations in which the bands broke were difficult to get to and I am not a fan of how the chest lock mech works. Overall a poor design. All that said, rubber is a wear item and I understand they need replaced after a certain amount of use. Otherwise the game has been Rock solid both mechanical and board/computer wise.

I am a buyer of what can bring people in to the establishments I operate in. I think $7500 for a JJP game is a step in the right direction. We have stepped up to order 4 standard versions of the game and 2 limited.

I still agree with Andy (silver spinner) above statements. There was a time in this business in which the games were easier to justify the cost. SAM board games from Stern were the most reliable to my route. The fixes were mostly simple, were board level transitors etc. Now issues with spike tend to be logic level and costly.

Basically it boils down to $1/game and the cost is more than doubled to acquire a game so the ROI of that unit takes 2.2-2.5 times as long to realize your investment. I would say this is a big reason pinball has taken a back seat to other options on my route. Don't get me wrong I love and support all pinball manufacturers but it is becoming more of a squeeze with Stern being the best option for me currently.

#5 7 months ago

Thanks for the feedback so far!
Please keep it coming

#6 7 months ago

Spoke with one of my local ops and per him he cannot really justify spending more than a stern pro. Typically the location will start with a pro and if a game does really well they may splurge for a premium and sell the pro.

#7 7 months ago

We operate plenty of pros and some premiums. This price drop fixes one problem for JJP, the cost for the ROI being too high to justify it.

Still left is:
- the wait for delivery of games (having money in deposits waiting to receive a game is WAY TOO LONG)
- reliability of mechs ( sold a WOZ because it was constantly breaking down due to the route punishment of many many plays)
- novice player enjoyment ( rulesets are convoluted, themes aren't as good as stern's)
- tournament player engagement (don't like them in tournaments, mostly due to the point below)
- ball times are way too long (need to get players moving through games, spending more money). Camping on really long games is fine for the home market, but are killers in a location setting.

#8 7 months ago

We currently don't have a deposit in on a Wonka, maybe if I see that they are actually shipping the game in a reasonable time frame. The theme has definitely intrigued our customers and generated excitement, so I wouldn't be opposed to eventually buying one, but I don't have the trust in JJP yet to deliver a game on time. Hence money stays in pocket for now. Really need to see the ball times drop a bit too, hopefully this isn't as bloated as their earlier games.

#9 7 months ago

Every operator around my area has stern LEs and JJP LEs. I don’t know why they put out the top product on route, but I’m glad they do.

#10 7 months ago
Quoted from guymontag451:

We operate plenty of pros and some premiums. This price drop fixes one problem for JJP, the cost for the ROI being too high to justify it.
Still left is:
- the wait for delivery of games (having money in deposits waiting to receive a game is WAY TOO LONG)
- reliability of mechs ( sold a WOZ because it was constantly breaking down due to the route punishment of many many plays)
- novice player enjoyment ( rulesets are convoluted, themes aren't as good as stern's)
- tournament player engagement ( don't like playing them in tournaments, mainly due to the point below)
- ball times are way too long (need to get players moving through games, spending more money). Camping on really long games is fine for the home market,
but are killers in a location setting.

#11 7 months ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

I have operated every Jersey Jack game made to date.

Me too.

WOZ almost six years, the others when production started.

WOZ - Broken spinner, broken state fair balloon pop bumper bracket, a few small LED boards, later changed to 7.5 volt boards and then to 2.0 lights for tech support learning. Broken wire on skill shot target.
Hobbit - One broken wire to a character face target, barrel popped off of pop bumper - loose screws.
Dialed In - busted trap door flap, leveler thing on rod pushing lady's arm up came unscrewed. Phone failure which turned out to be the bios settings got messed up and had to be accessed and straightened out. Weak solder joint on one flipper coil lug.
Pirates - I had one of the first few games with the black pearl pivot points that needed to be replaced, and one of them broke in shipping which made a simple task quite an adventure. And a broken wire on the black pearl. And one wireform shifted off up front and had to have it's nut loosened and put back in place and retighten the nut.

I've been in the games more to check things or take pictures for tech support, than anything else. I'm happy with their performance.

LTG : )

#12 7 months ago

I should have noted we have a mix of 20+ pins at my location. Stern Pros and Premiums, Bally / Williams (mostly DMD from 90s), and the Chicago Gaming Remakes. All have been pretty reliable and parts are readily available (generally quicker and cheaper than JJP).

The new JJP pricing for the Wonka ($7,500) aligns closely with the Stern Premiums and Chicago Gaming, so a step in the right direction. But still have the concerns about part pricing / timing and quality control from the factory.

Also the depreciation / resale markert on NIB and higher end games (say $7K and above) seems to have slowed. Whereas 90s era DMD games can be purchased, fixed up, and sold for close to the same cost. The loss on Stern Pros NIBs seems smaller than premiums, LEs, etc. $2-$3K loss on purchase vs. sell for higher end games also eats away at weekly profits.

I think Stern has the right business model. Get Pros into the wild for operators at good price and exposes potential buyers to buy one for home (or upgrade to premium). . . The LEs seem to already be spoken for at release. I have had a number of people come into the arcade try out a game and then but one for home.

#13 7 months ago

I applaud JJP for what they are doing to push the industry in new directions and supply premium games. I enjoy playing some of their games . . . and may buy some for home in the future.

But I ask people when they are conceding buying a JJP LE for home, would you rather have that or two Stern Pros for virtually the same price? Or how about 3 Williams DMD games?

#14 7 months ago

I’m past the point of a large collection - now I’ll take (3) JJP’s over 6 stern pros any day. I’ve owned all the Williams “A” games already. If I stumble on a used pin for a great price I buy it but usually sell it shortly after.

#15 7 months ago

I would think so.

I've had more ops inquiring about it in tech support calls. Availability, who to order from, etc.

Way more noticeable than any other JJP game in the past almost six years I've been manning the phone.

LTG : )

#16 7 months ago

I think the new price is making a big difference around here as far as route operators go. We had just 1 Dialed In on route and 0 Pirates. I already know of at least 3 locations that are purchasing Wonka SE's! I know that the lower price point is the primary reason for it.

Not only is the new pricing structure attracting Op's, but it's also attracting collector's. I know of several collector friends that haven't purchased JJP games in the past that are in on Wonka because of the lower price point that wouldn't have been a buyer otherwise.

I just hope JJP can get this game on the line quickly and keep up with the demand!

#17 7 months ago

Thanks to all the Ops for chiming in!

#18 7 months ago

Believe it or not, WONKA might actually TURN me into an operator. I've held off on purchasing a NIB pin for 10 years now. This title changed it for me. I'm in a small enough rural area where there's not a lot of operator pressure that I could route this game locally and probably pay it off in a couple years.

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