(Topic ID: 163743)

JJP: When the Reveal? Game 3...


By Pinball-Pat

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by dgarrett
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    There are 434 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 9.
    #201 3 years ago

    Expo would be perfect for a reveal with the entire team.

    -10
    #202 3 years ago
    Quoted from Circus_Animal:

    Because that information was not supposed to be publically released yet. I'm pretty sure that pissing off the second-largest pinball manufacturer is not one of Pinsde's priorities.

    I'm here to learn about pinball and not have others decide what information about pinball I'm 'allowed' to see. Regardless, there are other sources for this information.

    It's impossible to suppress this and heavy handed anyway. If that is the way JJP does business and treats fans of the game then no thanks, they can keep it.

    #203 3 years ago

    I think it will be revealed this fall, but not in production until next summer at the earliest. JJP is working on filling December 2012 orders currently. My Hobbit order from October 2015 is currently estimated around October 2016. At a production rate of 15 pins/day, they will likely be filling current pin orders through the beginning of next year. Then they (and distributors) will build up a stock pile of games before they stop the Hobbits on the main production line. They started a very small secondary WOZ line at a low pin output per day back in July. That will likely switch over to a mini-Hobbit production line. Then the main production line will transfer over tooling and such for the new pin #3, which took a couple of months for Hobbit before. This is my unsubstantiated theory based on wild guesses and pure conjecture.

    This could be completely different if they start to develop a second "full" production line at "some" facility that had the space/capacity for it. The JJP mini-production line for WOZ in July was shown in this video:

    #204 3 years ago
    Quoted from KingBW:

    I think it will be revealed this fall, but not in production until next summer at the earliest.

    I don't think it will be revealed until they can go into production soon after.

    LTG : )

    #205 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I don't think it will be revealed until they can go into production soon after.
    LTG : )

    Are they starting up a new second "full" production line someplace? I hope so!

    #206 3 years ago

    Pretty impressive that they have been able to keep it very secret. Even the leaked information was pretty vague.

    #207 3 years ago
    Quoted from KingBW:

    Are they starting up a new second "full" production line someplace? I hope so!

    The last Pinball Magazine newsletter stated that JJP was getting a second line up, but it sounded to me like at the same facility. I don't know the space available there but i'm guessing its a partial line so they can transition smoothly between runs of different games. I.E. They could setup the second line for the new game and work out and kinks in the line while finishing up hobbits, then put the new game on the main line and finish out any remaining hobbits on the secondary line.

    #208 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    This is so stupid. Why the hell can't we talk about it?

    Agreed... If its what I found on another site, it sounds more like a supporting tech thing and not related to a specific game, so why not, it would be interesting to speculate... Kind of like how people on other sites speculate on what new features the (name your gadget) my get next year based on some obscure patent app someone dug up.

    Oh well, It could be that they don't yet have all intellectual properties that go into it fully protected yet and want to keep their edge which is understandable. I will speculate to myself then...

    -1
    #209 3 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    Agreed... If its what I found on another site, it sounds more like a supporting tech thing and not related to a specific game, so why not, it would be interesting to speculate... Kind of like how people on other sites speculate on what new features the (name your gadget) my get next year based on some obscure patent app someone dug up.
    Oh well, It could be that they don't yet have all intellectual properties that go into it fully protected yet and want to keep their edge which is understandable. I will speculate to myself then...

    They'll let you have a 10081080138401 page thread on Alien but we can't talk about this? I mean, how much money does JJP make off people reading about their products here?

    It's not a nuclear secret. It's an upcoming pinball machine.

    #210 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    I'm here to learn about pinball and not have others decide what information about pinball I'm 'allowed' to see. Regardless, there are other sources for this information.
    It's impossible to suppress this and heavy handed anyway. If that is the way JJP does business and treats fans of the game then no thanks, they can keep it.

    I take it that you won't be buying any games from Stern, Spooky, Heighway or any other manufacturer either then? Because they all do exactly the same thing: release information about upcoming games when they deem it appropriate to do so. Manufacturers OWN that information, so yes, they are perfectly entitled to decide what they want to share with the public. If that information gets leaked then they are completely within their rights to try to limit the damage that the leak causes to their business, and Pinside are doing the right thing by assisting JJP with that.

    #211 3 years ago

    The part I hope is wrong in the rumors is that the game will call the player's phone. If that's true (and it makes no sense), it means either a wifi or a cellular connection will be required for each pin to make the calls, and while that's ok for the home, I can't imagine it working on location where pins really struggle to earn. If the operators don't support it, it will be DOA, and JJP can't afford that, even with the new investment.

    But then again, maybe the machine has a router in it and you connect to that with an app so everything's local to the machine? That could work...

    Well, hopefully we don't have long left to wait. But then again, this is JJP.

    #212 3 years ago
    Quoted from FalconPunch:

    I'd put money on an expo reveal.

    Are we putting money on this?

    No way they announce it this year. They have too many Hobbits to sell.

    People always pick these dates out of thin air. "Expo makes sense!!!" Yes, just like it "made sense" that PPS would announce AFMr at last year's Texas show, despite the fact that they just started cranking out MMs. Remember the steam that rumor gathered?

    No, it doesn't make sense. Why make an announcement that might cost them sales of a game they've spent literally YEARS and countless $ on getting into production? They are finally rolling them (slowly) out of the door after three years, and you think they'll make an announcement that will likely slam that door shut?

    Not gonna happen.

    #213 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Are we putting money on this?
    No way they announce it this year. They have too many Hobbits to sell.
    People always pick these dates out of thin air. "Expo makes sense!!!" Yes, just like it "makes sense" that PPS will announce AFMr at last year's Texas show, despite the fact that they just started cranking out MMs.
    No, it doesn't make sense. Why make an announcement that might cost them sales of a game they've spent literally YEARS and countless $ on getting into production? They are finally rolling them (slowly) out of the door after three years, and you think they'll make an announcement that will likely slam that door shut?
    Not gonna happen.

    Classic Osborne effect. While I'd like to see the new pin sooner rather than later, JJP has to use history as their guide, and that favors a later reveal.

    #214 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    No way they announce it this year. They have too many Hobbits to sell.
    People always pick these dates out of thin air. "Expo makes sense!!!"

    Maybe not, but I don't think selling Hobbits would be the deciding factor. My guess would be that by this point everyone who wants one already has one or has their order in. Any stragglers can be done on the small line.

    I'm hoping for Expo as a possibility not out of thin air but because JJP has announced that they are pushing for that... Granted there is no commitment behind that so yeah its still essentially out of thin air and could just as easily be next expo, but I would think they must feel they are getting close if folks there feel it might be a possibility... At least they would have a better sense than myself or any other average joe.

    #215 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    but we can't talk about this?

    Go ahead and talk about it here. No one is stopping you.

    Little is known and some misinformation out there. But still plenty to Banter about. Pat Lawlor has some interesting differences in many of his games.

    LTG : )

    #216 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Noone is stopping you.

    images_(resized).jpg

    #217 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Go ahead and talk about it here. No one is stopping you.
    Little is known and some misinformation out there. But still plenty to Banter about. Pat Lawlor has some interesting differences in many of his games.
    LTG : )

    Okay, well, digging deeper, JJP has a trademark application for "Dialed In" that's computer software to interface with pinball and arcade machines, and another trademark for "Killer App" that's listed as "pinball machines." Is it possible that Killer App is the original concept pinball machine and Dialed In is the phone app that it "calls" during the game? Or is Killer App known to be a different project?

    #218 3 years ago

    Perhaps Killer App would be an app that one would download to your phone and communicate with Dialed In via bluetooth or something like that?

    For a route operator a possible cool feature would be if the machine had GPS coordinates that it would broadcast out (disabled for home of course) and players could then use the app to find games.

    #219 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Go ahead and talk about it here. No one is stopping you.

    Promise not to laugh at our crazy ideas when they are waaay off base?

    #220 3 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    For a route operator a possible cool feature would be if the machine had GPS coordinates that it would broadcast out (disabled for home of course) and players could then use the app to find games.

    The game could automatically post itself as a Pokemon stop ha! Lol

    #221 3 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    Promise not to laugh at our crazy ideas when they are waaay off base?

    I promise.

    Some of them may be right.

    LTG : )

    #222 3 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    Perhaps Killer App would be an app that one would download to your phone and communicate with Dialed In via bluetooth or something like that?

    Nope. Killer App is specifically listed in the trademark app as "pinball machines" not computer software. I think it's the machine and Dialed In (listed as computer software in its trademark app) is the app it works with (that may be repurposed to work with other machines in the future, I would think).

    #223 3 years ago
    Quoted from Circus_Animal:

    I take it that you won't be buying any games from Stern, Spooky, Heighway or any other manufacturer either then? Because they all do exactly the same thing: release information about upcoming games when they deem it appropriate to do so. Manufacturers OWN that information, so yes, they are perfectly entitled to decide what they want to share with the public. If that information gets leaked then they are completely within their rights to try to limit the damage that the leak causes to their business, and Pinside are doing the right thing by assisting JJP with that.

    I'll buy from whomever I feel is oriented toward sharing details with pinball enthusiasts and supporting the community. Heighway doesn't prevent anyone talking about Alien and at least explains why they can only share certain things due to Fox. They still provide updates and answer questions.

    What damage is a leak doing exactly? If anything, it just builds excitement. Maybe you haven't noticed but people discuss tables years before the table is actually released? People already know. Everyone knows a third game is coming. Seems JJP is still in business.

    #224 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Are we putting money on this?
    No way they announce it this year. They have too many Hobbits to sell.
    People always pick these dates out of thin air. "Expo makes sense!!!" Yes, just like it "made sense" that PPS would announce AFMr at last year's Texas show, despite the fact that they just started cranking out MMs. Remember the steam that rumor gathered?
    No, it doesn't make sense. Why make an announcement that might cost them sales of a game they've spent literally YEARS and countless $ on getting into production? They are finally rolling them (slowly) out of the door after three years, and you think they'll make an announcement that will likely slam that door shut?
    Not gonna happen.

    So by that logic, Stern won't sell any more Metallica/TWD/Star Treks because they released Ghostbusters?

    and I don't think comparing PPS to JJP is remotely apples to apples - PPS doesn't have a factory, they piggyback off of Stern who is by my guess at least 3 months behind on orders.

    If JJP has the ability to spin up a second line, I don't see how JJP#3 takes away from Hobbit sales - different games, different appeal. Both can be made at the same time and sell tons. I'm guessing they are already getting low on NIB WOZ units which continue to sell...just as Hobbit will after all the pre-orders have been fulfilled.

    #225 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    I'll buy from whomever I feel is oriented toward sharing details with pinball enthusiasts and supporting the community. Heighway doesn't prevent anyone talking about Alien and at least explains why they can only share certain things due to Fox. They still provide updates and answer questions.
    What damage is a leak doing exactly? If anything, it just builds excitement. Maybe you haven't noticed but people discuss tables years before the table is actually released? People already know. Everyone knows a third game is coming. Seems JJP is still in business.

    While I am all for early details, I would imagine the companies all try and make sure something has the bugs worked out (well, most of them) before push info out. Early on, Smaug was going to do all kinds of crazy things, but had to be adjusted in the end. I think waiting is the right call, but they always manage to "leak" a nugget or two...

    #226 3 years ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Nope. Killer App is specifically listed in the trademark app as "pinball machines" not computer software. I think it's the machine and Dialed In (listed as computer software in its trademark app) is the app it works with (that may be repurposed to work with other machines in the future, I would think).

    That would certainly be a theme in line with current pop culture. I'm kind of at a loss as to how you would represent that cleanly and concisely in a Pin while being fun. I'm sure it can be done just wouldn't know where to even start with that. I guess thats why he's the master.

    #227 3 years ago

    The pinball machines will not have a cell phone built in. I can't see that happening. Most people (and arcade venues) would not pay the extra $15+ per month for that ... for each machine ... and there are multiple carriers to deal with. It likely ties in via a Bluetooth connection to your phone app for interaction of some sort. Then, if it is a extremely integrated feature, your phone would tie into a server somewhere, somehow for the higher end stuff using cell data. I like the idea someone else mentioned to used you phone for a second screen via Bluetooth down on top of the glass ... on top of the apron. No one ever got that second screen mod working with WOZ yet, that I know of. Or maybe it's just for automatically tweeting your game scores, statistics, and such.

    #228 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    No way they announce it this year. They have too many Hobbits to sell.

    This would only make sense if they believe the third game is markedly better than TH or if it has significantly advanced technology. If the third game on the same level as TH, then I don't think they should be worried about it stealing sales of TH. It's unlikely that an unlicensed game would take sales away from a licensed one.

    #229 3 years ago

    Imo I think it has something to do with Bluetooth. Perhaps for location you could save your high scores or progress and access it if you happened to play on a different machine.

    #230 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Are we putting money on this?
    No way they announce it this year. They have too many Hobbits to sell.
    People always pick these dates out of thin air. "Expo makes sense!!!" Yes, just like it "made sense" that PPS would announce AFMr at last year's Texas show, despite the fact that they just started cranking out MMs. Remember the steam that rumor gathered?
    No, it doesn't make sense. Why make an announcement that might cost them sales of a game they've spent literally YEARS and countless $ on getting into production? They are finally rolling them (slowly) out of the door after three years, and you think they'll make an announcement that will likely slam that door shut?
    Not gonna happen.

    Sure
    $50 donation to Pinside for whoever is wrong
    You pay if JJP is announced before the end of the year, December 31st midnght
    If Pay if they have't said anything by then

    Deal?

    #231 3 years ago

    Flimsy prediction: it's about a literal killer app that's going to end the world (nuclear holocaust? "Cell"-esque brain virus?) and you're personally battling the program. The program taunts you through your cell phone, or maybe reveals exploitable weaknesses. I'd play it.

    #232 3 years ago
    Quoted from trunchbull:

    Flimsy prediction: it's about a literal killer app that's going to end the world (nuclear holocaust? "Cell"-esque brain virus?) and you're personally battling the program. The program taunts you through your cell phone, or maybe reveals exploitable weaknesses. I'd play it.

    That actually sounds pretty cool! I like the idea of taking the game beyond just the pinball machine. Could be really good for locations if it draws people back after they leave.

    #233 3 years ago
    Quoted from clg:

    That actually sounds pretty cool! I like the idea of taking the game beyond just the pinball machine. Could be really good for locations if it draws people back after they leave.

    Especially if it's "calling" them through the app to taunt them after they've left the location.

    #234 3 years ago
    Quoted from FalconPunch:

    Sure
    $50 donation to Pinside for whoever is wrong
    You pay if JJP is announced before the end of the year, December 31st midnght
    If Pay if they have't said anything by then
    Deal?

    Actually I was hoping to bet you. If you win, feel free to do what you want with it.

    Deal?

    #235 3 years ago

    Perhaps the "Dialed In" app doesn't have anything to do with gameplay but rather a feature where an operator/owner can connect to the pin from their smartphone to allow them to check audits, make configuration changes, check errors, etc... from their phone.

    #236 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dalbok:

    a feature where an operator/owner can connect to the pin from their smartphone to allow them to check audits, make configuration changes, check errors, etc... from their phone.

    Or talk to the player. Give them crap for a lousy score. Bait them to put more money in. Make fun of their wife. Tell them to go to the bar and get the free drink they won, which doesn't exist.

    The possibilities are endless.

    LTG : )

    #237 3 years ago

    Lmao!

    How about your friends could build up cerain achievements that allow them to control aspects of your game... Ie temporary close a ramp or set weak flippers... Or only one flipper weak or other random stuff. For the operator they could buy additional power ups to cause other havoc. Actually sounds kind of fun and would keep all of the players fully participating even when its not their ball.

    Ooh.. You could even do something with teams... One group is trying to get you to drain while the other trying to protect the current player.

    #238 3 years ago
    Quoted from KerryD:

    While I am all for early details, I would imagine the companies all try and make sure something has the bugs worked out (well, most of them) before push info out. Early on, Smaug was going to do all kinds of crazy things, but had to be adjusted in the end. I think waiting is the right call, but they always manage to "leak" a nugget or two...

    Ok this kind of makes sense but what bugs are you experiencing with a bit of information? You aren't actually playing the game rather just talking about it in a preliminary fashion.

    If you really want to talk about bugs doesn't Stern release info AND tables before they are actually ready? Has this even slowed them down?

    #239 3 years ago
    Quoted from trunchbull:

    Flimsy prediction: it's about a literal killer app that's going to end the world (nuclear holocaust? "Cell"-esque brain virus?) and you're personally battling the program. The program taunts you through your cell phone, or maybe reveals exploitable weaknesses. I'd play it.

    Or you could really freak people out by setting it up to control common home automation controls... As the virus your battling starts spreading your lights start to flicker, the movie screen turns on and the shades open and close wildly. Lol...

    Ok... I can see now that I have stayed up too late,

    #240 3 years ago

    I think a good idea for a next pin would be to build a hybrid Zamboni/pinball machine where you had to drive it around the ice while flippin' and try not to tilt while you go for the high score.

    #241 3 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    I think a good idea for a next pin would be to build a hybrid Zamboni/pinball machine where you had to drive it around the ice while flippin' and try not to tilt while you go for the high score.

    Sounds like that Addams Family machine rigged to an exercise bike. You have to pedal fast to keep full power or the flippers get weak. Interesting novelty, but not fun.

    #242 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    Ok this kind of makes sense but what bugs are you experiencing with a bit of information? You aren't actually playing the game rather just talking about it in a preliminary fashion.

    Just in case you didn't notice: The information you were referring to was posted now, it's being discussed and the thread is still open. To my understanding that is what you wanted, you can join in the wild (and for the most part ridiculous) speculation that's going on now.

    Quoted from Sticky:

    ...doesn't Stern release info AND tables before they are actually ready? Has this even slowed them down?

    They release info a few weeks before production - do you seriously think JJP is just a few weeks from production of game three?

    #243 3 years ago

    With the killer app taking over (like war games) this would fit into .....kinda sorta natural disasters

    #244 3 years ago

    - Store replays on your phone.
    - Offer promotional pricing to past players
    - Pay for your game with Apple Pay

    #245 3 years ago

    A pinball machine with some sort of add-on app sounds like a good idea on the surface, but adds so much more complication to an already complicated system. Dealing with the hassles of being now a more traditional software company, and the headaches that come with that - on top of a game manufacturing company - seems like a monumental task for a fledgling company.

    If they could pull it off in some fashion, and integrate that tech into their future games, it would certainly differentiate JJP further from the competition. However, with machines already running at super-premium pricing and the sheer cost of the infrastructure to properly support this type of system, I file an integrated app as "unlikely", or maybe even "unwise". Maybe they have the money to pull it off. It's certainly a high-risk play, and I'm not sure that the reward would be worth it.

    That said; after playing WOZ and The Hobbit for the first time recently, I'm very impressed with JJP's games. I'm really looking forward to see what they release next. Their price point is too high for me to realistically ever own, but they are some beautiful games that I find highly entertaining.

    #246 3 years ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    So by that logic, Stern won't sell any more Metallica/TWD/Star Treks because they released Ghostbusters?.

    Apples and Oranges.

    Stern makes 3-5 new titles A YEAR.

    JJP makes a new title every 3 or 4 years.

    In the case of JJP, it makes absolutely no sense to reveal the new game right after they've finally gotten their second title into production after countless delays, unless you think they don't like selling pinball machines.

    The reveal won't happen at Expo. It won't happen this year. I would think the end of next year is much more realistic.

    The pinball industry in 2016 operates at a positively glacial pace - how is it that you haven't noticed this? It's partly because of unexpected delays, and it's partly out of design. Wait? "Glacial?" That's it! The new Pat Lawlor game is snowstorm/ice age themed! And what better place to announce a "cold" game than in Chicago in October?! It was right under our noses the whole time! This is a bigger tip-off than the AFM martian on the flyer for Texas last year, when AFMr was announced!

    #247 3 years ago

    Well...last year I was talking to Jack about the powder coating on the hobbit - and I asked him about game #3. His comment was rather funny. He said something like, when JJP haters see Lawlor's game they are going to stoke out! (or something to that effect). They seem to be happy with what is cooking for #3. Frankly, my next pin was going to be WOZ RR or TRON LE/VE/Whatever, but I am now waiting on #3 before making that choice.

    No hurry for me, just dropped a truck of cash on a Stine poker table and chairs, and bought the hobbit (which is a freaking awesome pin -no regrets at all) - so my budget is shot till next year anyway.

    EDIT: One thing I want to mention. My wife didn't play pinball much at all until she played WOZ. Now the only pins she will play are WOZ and Hobbit - those she likes. The rest - not so much. I kind of find that interesting...oh...and Galaga - she likes Galaga.

    #248 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Apples and Oranges.
    Stern makes 3-5 new titles A YEAR.
    JJP makes a new title every 3 or 4 years.
    In the case of JJP, it makes absolutely no sense to reveal the new game right after they've finally gotten their second title into production after countless delays, unless you think they don't like selling pinball machines.
    The reveal won't happen at Expo. It won't happen this year. I would think the end of next year is much more realistic.
    The pinball industry in 2016 operates at a positively glacial pace - how is it that you haven't noticed this? It's partly because of unexpected delays, and it's partly out of design. Wait? "Glacial?" That's it! The new Pat Lawlor game is snowstorm/ice age themed! And what better place to announce a "cold" game than in Chicago in October?! It was right under our noses the whole time! This is a bigger tip-off than the AFM martian on the flyer for Texas last year, when AFMr was announced!

    Stern makes 3-5 new titles a year because they have multiple design teams working concurrently.

    JJP did not have concurrent design teams for WOZ and Hobbit which is why they took 3 years each to develop. *HOWEVER* - JJP#3 has been being developed concurrently with Hobbit AS WE ALL KNOW.

    Jack has said a bazillion times that JJP is out of the pre-order/non-concurrent development model and that JJP#3 will be shown COMPLETE and production will begin shortly thereafter.

    I think you are simply stuck on how JJP has operated historically versus what they are growing into.

    I'm not going to guess when the JJP#3 reveal is - it may be before the end of the year, it may be early next year. What I do know is that it won't simply be a theme announcement with a 3 year wait - it will be a complete game with production beginning shortly thereafter.

    Hobbit sales won't be impacted because Hobbit is an incredible game - in my opinion the best game that money can buy right now (at least until Alien lands).

    #249 3 years ago
    Quoted from Goronic:

    and bought the hobbit (which is a freaking awesome pin -no regrets at all)

    Still waiting to see a pic of how you incorporated that Smaug bust you bought with your pin. Topper?

    #250 3 years ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    Hobbit sales won't be impacted because Hobbit is an incredible game - in my opinion the best game that money can buy right now (at least until Alien lands).

    We will have to agree to disagree on this point. Hobbit costs a lot of money. If credible word and photos about the "next greatest pinball in history" - the PLD project - leaked today, it would most certainly affect Hobbit sales. It's just human nature that many potential Hobbit buyers would keep their wallet in their pants with the reveal. Not everybody can afford to buy two $8500 pinball machines.

    Same with Stern for that matter. A sudden reveal of a Star Wars game with LCD screen etc would slow GB sales to a crawl, and quick. Not to say they wouldn't make those sales up later (after all Metallica is still selling) but there would be an immediate effect. That's why Stern staggers their release announcements. It's not rocket science. this is how pinball companies have always operated, at least this century.

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    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 109.95
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Pinball Pro
    $ 10.95
    $ 86.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
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