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(Topic ID: 240619)

JJP versus STERN....Ritchie versus Lawlor


By iceman44

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 146 posts
  • 82 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by DS_Nadine
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “JJP versus STERN....Ritchie versus Lawlor”

    • Black Knight 94 votes
      38%
    • Wonka 152 votes
      62%

    (246 votes)

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    There are 146 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 1 year ago

    A way to early opinion but let me get this straight. BKSOR had terrible animations/PS2 graphics but we're all cool with this Wonka room animation??

    -2
    #52 1 year ago

    Ritchie smoked Lawlor this round

    #53 1 year ago
    Quoted from PapaKilo:

    A way to early opinion but let me get this straight. BKSOR had terrible animations/PS2 graphics but we're all cool with this Wonka room animation??

    A dark knight for JJP?

    #54 1 year ago

    Wonka looks like a good and beautiful game if you like the theme. But I don't think I would sell my IMDN, AC/DC, Hobbit or JJPPotC for it.

    #55 1 year ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Maybe BK but not Munsters or IMDN

    You can literally eat a 4 course meal off all the wasted space in the middle of a Munsters pro playfield. Camaaan man...

    #56 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    You can literally eat a 4 course meal off all the wasted space in the middle of a Munsters pro playfield. Camaaan man...

    I have a lower playfield in the middle of my Premium and its fun as hell. There’s nothing in the middle of Wonka either.

    12
    #57 1 year ago

    People complained about BKSOR music being somewhat repetitive, but I think Wonka is far worse with that constant theme playing.

    Wonka looks decent, but nothing exciting that gets the adrenaline going. Early code of course, but the room is pretty bland on the screen.

    Rob

    #58 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rob_G:

    People complained about BKSOR music being somewhat repetitive, but I think Wonka is far worse with that constant theme playing.
    Rob

    Yep no doubt Rob. I wouldn’t buy this game, I’ll just say it right now.

    #59 1 year ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Nice game but why am i not as impressed as Kaneda is?

    JJP didn’t pay you.

    #60 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    JJP didn’t pay you.

    No kidding Mike. It really makes you wonder if he was paid to hype it up doesn’t it? He used words like MAGICAL and DIFFERENT LEAGUE and you’re going to be BLOWN AWAY etc, and i am none of these things. Im disappointed as a MF just to be honest with you.

    #61 1 year ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    No kidding Mike. It really makes you wonder if he was paid to hype it up doesn’t it? He used words like MAGICAL and DIFFERENT LEAGUE and you’re going to be BLOWN AWAY etc, and i am none of these things. Im disappointed as a MF just to be honest with you.

    It looks nice, I ain’t blown away. BK pro coming to my house soon I think.

    #62 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I actually work hard Tuna!
    I’m about 6 16oz deep right now. Long ways to go!
    Doesn’t take me long to catch up

    I'm sure you do man - just givin' you some shit!

    22
    #63 1 year ago

    I like that jjp has entered into a more competitive price point. But are they really serious with this generic ass art package?!?

    F7E75010-9FDB-4516-8A71-158F618CC6C7 (resized).jpeg
    -6
    #64 1 year ago
    Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

    It looks nice, I ain’t blown away. BK pro coming to my house soon I think.

    Yeah give me Black Knight and 2 grand in my pocket anyday over this kiddie land game! I mean seriously, there is a "Kid multiball"

    Bwaaaaa hasaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaa....give me a F'ing break!

    Oh yeah and people want to bitch about Sterns code, this games code is 40% complete! Im not impressed.

    -6
    #65 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    You can literally eat a 4 course meal off all the wasted space in the middle of a Munsters pro playfield. Camaaan man...

    You could fit the 4 course meal and the entire Munster pinball machine in the wasted space on Wonka

    Get Fizzy with it

    #66 1 year ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Yeah give me Black Knight and 2 grand in my pocket anyday over this kiddie land game! I mean seriously, there is a "Kid multiball"
    Bwaaaaa hasaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaa....give me a F'ing break!
    Oh yeah and people want to bitch about Sterns code, this games code is 40% complete! Im not impressed.

    I think JJP should have just dropped the backboard ball lock from all 3 models to keep the price lower on all 3. And maybe not so many inserts in the playfield because it seems a bit overkill especially on a standard width playfield.

    Rob

    #67 1 year ago

    Sound and Theme an easy nod to Black Knight, but Wonka layout is waaay better. Reminds me of Alien plus more.. I'd go Wonka right now even tho i'm lukewarm on the theme and sound.

    #68 1 year ago

    I am impressed watching gameplay so far with Wonka. It has a true skill shot, fun layout-tons of shots and most important is it seems to have great flow. Color changing RGB is not over the top but looks good. Four flippers. Looks like a fun family game, I look forward to flipping one.

    #69 1 year ago
    Quoted from tilted81:

    I like that jjp has entered into a more competitive price point. But are they really serious with this generic ass art package?!?
    [quoted image]

    Maybe the ink costs are less to print graphics without any details or extra colors lol... It's almost like they are trying to make the standard look bad on purpose to steer people towards the LE. Art is still one area that Stern kicks their ass. Couldn't imagine Zombie Yeti, Franchi, or DD releasing a game with side art like that. With that being said I'd still love to own one. I'd just shove it in the middle of my lineup and leave a game like Iron Maiden on the end where you can see the art.

    Seriously though... Why release a game with substandard and bland cabinet art when it costs you literally nothing to print off artwork with some actual art on it. Just use the LE art but change the background color scheme or something!

    #70 1 year ago

    I’m a Lawlor fan boy Wonka looks fun! Bk also looks great. Exited to flip both!

    13
    #71 1 year ago

    so im at MGC now. the organizers told me when I registered my game that stern was only supose to bring a "1" black knight premium to play. once they found out wonka was going to be here they sent "5" premiums. competition is good. win win for all pinheads.

    #72 1 year ago

    Letdown for me, but I was never planning to buy one. The sounds and animation remind me more of a slot machine than a pin. And, I never felt like I was Charlie on an adventure while watching the stream. For me, the game that got it right (taking me into the story of a machine) is Batman 66. That game is always fun to play and I feel like I've entered the tv show.

    -5
    #73 1 year ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Please rename thread "PANZER vs WHODEY"

    Looks like the underdog WHODEY knocked PANZER the F out PW!

    11
    #74 1 year ago

    Yeah, Wonka looks good... but I’ll take BK plus $2000 in cash please.

    #75 1 year ago
    Quoted from WeLoveScott:

    The sounds and animation remind me more of a slot machine than a pin.

    I watched the start of the stream (when it blacked out) and a few minutes of gameplay, and my wife said from the other side of the room “is that a slot machine?”

    rd

    #76 1 year ago

    I was so psyched when I heard about the new Black Knight and am even more psyched now. Anyone know when the premiums are supposed to ship?

    #77 1 year ago
    Quoted from Strummy:

    I was so psyched when I heard about the new Black Knight and am even more psyched now. Anyone know when the premiums are supposed to ship?

    I believe the premiums ship last Strummy so it will probably be a couple of months i bet.

    #78 1 year ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    I watched the start of the stream (when it blacked out) and a few minutes of gameplay, and my wife said from the other side of the room “is that a slot machine?”

    rd

    Booooooo!

    #79 1 year ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    I believe the premiums ship last Strummy so it will probably be a couple of months i bet.

    Aw hell! Thanks.

    #80 1 year ago

    I think wonka looks like the better layout, however wonka as a theme kind of sucks

    Only time will tell once we can play both and see which grabs you

    #81 1 year ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Anyway you look at this, strong competition is good for the consumer

    Yeah, I'm really grateful for all the price increases. Made the hobby awesome!!!!!

    -6
    #82 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rob_G:

    I think JJP should have just dropped the backboard ball lock from all 3 models to keep the price lower on all 3. And maybe not so many inserts in the playfield because it seems a bit overkill especially on a standard width playfield.
    Rob

    Don't worry, JJP will drop them before shipping, ala Pirates. Price will remain the same, though!

    #83 1 year ago
    Quoted from PapaKilo:

    Different companies making machines for different reasons. Stern can survive without JJP. JJP would not survive without Stern. I think BK3 looks fast and fun but I am excited to see Wonka tonight. Its a wishlist theme for sure!

    Having owned both brands. I like both with the original themes but on quality stern is just not there lately. The stars wars le I had the playfeild looked awful. The wood is so soft, clear coat chipping and the stern lcd display not the same as JJP. The last real LE stern made was Star Trek. Much different than the premium on LE feel. I have had way to many issues with Stern right out of the box with decals peeling off etc. Jjp wins on quality.

    22
    #84 1 year ago

    My personal take, nobody needs to get mad and tell me to suck their dick if they don't agree this time, chill.

    Black Knight: Great media presentation, strong music, best LCD Stern has done yet, good art, just a complete feeling package. Not an original theme, but a new chapter in a beloved trilogy, just an overall well presented idea. Props to Stern for the no license approach, even if it's a familiar them. I dig the metal vibe, realize it won't be for everyone, not family friendly if that's a concern. Haven't flipped it, but purely from the stream the playfield looks kinda boring. Not bad, just not that interesting, not a ton to do. Might still be fun in a brutal way. Overall the gameplay part that matters seems a little empty and dull though. Pinball isn't LCDs and themes, it's the ball, and this feels like a B effort from The King. That makes me feel eh at the end of the day.

    Wonka: Weak package to me, the art is the slot machine/DVD looking phoned in (the standard cab just gets a logo, seriously?), the music is not appealing to me, LCD looks okay but kinda blah by JJP standards, which are high (JP has done killer work on all the previous games). The movie feels dated to me, and the LCD doesn't seem to leverage it that much, which is half good half bad. Family friendly if you care. Playfield looks fun, 4 flippers, magnets, Lawlor touches, definitely more to do. I'd love to flip it, why the heck not, but no interest in it just based on theme.

    I'd take the Wonka playfield with the Black Knight package over it, that might move my needle. As it is I say neither wins, because there are better options out there already. Why spend your money on this if you haven't already owned all the better existing games? And if you own them all who cares, you've got more money than me, do whatever you want, I don't care. Buy them both you rich bastard lol.

    It's not like any of us have to buy a new game just because it comes out. Force companies to earn your money, pass on the weaker efforts, don't be a cheerleader for companies.

    #85 1 year ago

    I’m watching people play Wonka on YouTube now, ehhhh, kind of a let down IMO. Sounds and looks just like the Wonka slot machines in Vegas. Think I’d way rather have a pirates personally

    10
    #86 1 year ago

    I starting laughing when the kid multiball flashed across the screen and cracked up when the stream cut out, i had tears in my eyes.
    Im sorry man but a bunch of grown men standing around that candy machine looked ridiculous, it was uncomfortable to watch.

    The machine needed to be nostalgic like WOZ but it missed the mark. Itll be fun but its not coming into my house. BKSOR LE is safe.

    #87 1 year ago
    Quoted from usandthem:

    I think that you could only truly pit them one on one of they were working for the same company with the same budget. It's kind of like judging two school teachers, one in Detroit and one in the suburbs. Which one is really better? The one with meager resources and difficult kids (city) who makes some progress or the one with many resources and easy kids (comfortable suburb) who makes just a little more progress? As a school teacher, it's the only occupational analogy I can make.

    Except for in this case the company with all the money spends none of the resources while the company lacking all the money and resources puts in everything. It's a weird dynamic.

    #88 1 year ago

    Look.... 90% of y’all haven’t played either of these.

    Black knight, the pro surprised many of us. The stream made it look very cool, whereas the LE looked dull to some. Keep in mind that the loop opto wasn’t working on the LE during the stream.

    Wonka is in an even more primitive state in the design phase. They are not going to be cranked out for a while. I didn’t really see anything here that would be considered revolutionary, as kaneda led listeners to believe in the podcast.

    Watching the deadflip stream and the Lawlor/Katz interview, you can tell both design teams are very proud of their products. They talk about their designs with no bs, their passions for their designs are genuine. As a consumer, I really appreciate all of that.

    For me (and this is where I’ll earn all of your down votes lol), Ritchie has just been a better, more consistent designer than Lawlor over the years. Look at the titles. Both had their worst duds during the lean stern years, so let’s forget about 24 and csi. Where I think pat had the edge in the later system 11/wpc titles, Steve has more recently surpassed pat as a better designer. If you put me in a room with an AC/DC, family guy, Star Trek, and dialed in, the Ritchie titles are totally getting my quarters first.... they’re just.... better.

    I’ve gotta play both, but I feel like I’m going to migrate to black knight in the end, based on what I like.

    Mike

    #89 1 year ago

    I think Lawlor nailed it! Think jjp missed with the theme. Debating switching my bk to a wonka though.....need to play both....

    #90 1 year ago

    The theme SUCKS

    #91 1 year ago

    Theme is as bad as Woz for me and would totally own a BK3 over.

    #92 1 year ago

    Let’s reset the price of POTC standard to $7,500 and I’m in on one of those

    #93 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    nobody needs to get mad and tell me to suck their dick

    who the hell did that

    #94 1 year ago

    Just got back from the show it was awesome.
    For what's it's worth I played BK many times there was no line. I really love it so I'm ordering the pro now.
    Also played premium and prefer the pro. BK was in the one more game category. I'm very excited.
    Wonka looked amazing the lines were long and the games were close together. I was able to play maybe 4 games and since I suck only got a taste of it.
    Ill probably get one down the road but not committing today.

    #95 1 year ago

    Attempting to analyse which game is 'better' is going to be thoroughly pointless. They're clearly very different games and almost everyone will already have known before either reveal which they'd rather have.

    I'm sure they'll both do equally well. Put Ritchie and Lawlor up against each other, historically they almost always have. For every Addams and Twilight Zone, there's a Flash and a Getaway. The REAL question is how quickly everyone else can fortify their particular niche (a la Spooky and CGC), up their game to match if they want to sell in substantial quantity, or have something else appealingly new or different to fall back on that they know enough people will want, lest the thinning of the herd comes earlier than expected over the course of the year with these two potential juggernauts as the catalyst.

    #96 1 year ago
    Quoted from davijc02:

    Let’s reset the price of POTC standard to $7,500 and I’m in on one of those

    Doubt that is possible with how much that game has in it over a Wonka SE.

    14
    #97 1 year ago

    2 legendary designers showing the young 'uns how and why pinball is so much fun. No question the only winner here is us.

    -6
    #98 1 year ago

    The best part of all this for me is going to be reading JJP fanboy posts trying to justify that ridiculous looking game. I mean thats the magical, innovative Wonka pin? Hey if that floats ur boat all the power to ya but BK kicks Wonka ass. I do like the Wonka layout in terms of ramps and flippers but

    #99 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    The best part of all this for me is going to be reading JJP fanboy posts trying to justify that ridiculous looking game. I mean thats the magical, innovative Wonka pin? Hey if that floats ur boat all the power to ya but BK kicks Wonka ass. I do like the Wonka layout in terms of ramps and flippers but

    Neither game is perfect and each will appeal to different folks. I do like the Wonka theme, but not how it was integrated (so far) in what I saw of the gameplay. DP is really my next choice for a purchase, but I can't afford anything right now.

    Rob

    #100 1 year ago
    Quoted from indybru:

    Just got back from the show it was awesome.
    For what's it's worth I played BK many times there was no line. I really love it so I'm ordering the pro now.
    Also played premium and prefer the pro. BK was in the one more game category. I'm very excited.
    Wonka looked amazing the lines were long and the games were close together. I was able to play maybe 4 games and since I suck only got a taste of it.
    Ill probably get one down the road but not committing today.

    I made the same observation. Both games playable by public for the first time last night. Wonka had lines all night long. BK you could walk up and play any time. For what that’s worth.

    Besides wonka surprise of the night for me was Star Wars. I want the premium now having played it.

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