Yeah, but I can "collect" characters in any $20-$60 video game in a similar, and more realized manner.

The reality of a pinball game is NOT via relying more on digital assets than......physical one's.

It's okay for fans of the franchise, pinball, Lawlor and most of all JJP to be disappointed.

Didn't notice that scoop initially..! SOLD!!!

I'm just jaw dropped at the rumored pricing for this, and there's no way the JJP owner would drop pricing, riiiiight?

If this were more $6500 LE/$8500 CE things would be more excusable/understandable, but even Led Zeppelin seems to have more going on in the playfield. This seems like the front 80% is barren.

Just....shocked. Still.

Dialed-In was jam packed, Wonka started to lose mechs in comparison, but managed to bluff it out. This....seems all LCD's, all displays, and all software. Which is not traditional pinball, and certainly seems cheaper production wise.

But hey, if it's anything we found out during Covid, someone has to pay.....for profit margins to be met!

Supposedly to get a better acquisition of license usage.

*the Caboom

Well, to be fair, that LE is the new SE at CE pricing...!

Yeesh. Even the playfields look nearly identical, some coloration aside.

He sold out of CE's in 2 minutes!

This hobby is batshit!!!

The email link stated when links die, the game is sold out. I hit the button and it said so.

J.J. Babich also sold out on CE's.

It seems to be based primarily on screen engaged gameplay though, versus gameplay based on actual mechanical devices.

This is not why we pinball.

Wonka had a lot of great lane and ramp shots, and some okay mechs.

I view Dialed-In as a 10/10 of pinball gimmickry, Wonka as a 6, and this seems about a 2.

Lawlor clearly should have done his victory lap with Wonka, and he was present in person there for that event.

This seems more like a vengeful turd that he left smoking in the toilets as he darted out. Ultimately this is more Disney, JJP/Greedy Owner, then Lawlor though.

I was super excited yesterday, so I have NO reason to shit on this except it looks like a sad, lonely toilet to me.

Awful that my Hobbit cost half this much....

You Sir, are brave! Kudos!!!

I was 20 minutes in and felt more like snoozing than wanting to play this. Whereas the GnR release video did exactly the opposite!

That "No. I'm not going to do that." remark by Lawlor at the end when asked about what character he identifies with really lends to those rumors about how he was to work with there. Definitely feels sterile and calculated, kinda joyless.

Sadly, I wish Toy Story was themed over Oktoberfest by American. That game is loaded in comparision, but it's visual design is so troubled.

Don't forget Pat...once again...expressing how this is cutting edge tech!

And Pat Van Winkle also welcomed us to the 21st century, 22 years after it started..!

Now the real question is...would this release cost less or MORE if it were made of delicious cake?

I think people are more incensed at the asking price Greg. For $7K, maybe this feels acceptable for home ownership. For $5 spent at a barcade, (If one will be found at this pricing.) we don't care.

Home ownership is the key here.

Sidepoint, isn't it ironic, and sad, that Pat's first PINBALL game had possibly the best "second screen" usage via Banzai Run, and possibly his last involves a shitty iPad?

Look at it this way, NEXT JJP game they're pushing over the P3 Empire, and making the Mirco playfield obsolete with a full screen playfield, on top of a smaller 12" one, and the LCD backglass..!!!

Maybe after that....projected mechs!

And then ideally JJP #10 is just an outright $60 fucking video game. I hope....

This back and forth digital slapfest is more compelling than the digital slapfest JJP showed today..!

I kinda felt the same way. Their recent soundscapes feel overwhelming and collide/cut off into each other like an insta headache for a dollar. (I greatly miss David Thiel's more balanced approach sound design wise.)

I liked the older approach too, where things were more grid based for the GUI, and clips were slightly less blasting in your face.

This approach definitely is for kid's frenetic attention spans, but how many will play in a home or on site?

I'm just happiest today that you're confirming that the nasty Youtube rumor is false Greg!

AIDS free is always the best way to be..! (Also, significantly cheaper than this new pin!)

Speaking of....not even a golf swing for this or GnR from Jack of Jersey Jack Pinball.

I really wish I was around for the first half of JJP, more so than this latter half. They certainly had fledgling steps, but the effort and earnestness felt there.

People work really, really hard on movie juggernauts by companies like Disney, that are also open to criticism by viewers that are significantly cheaper than this game.

People have a right to vote with their mouths and wallets, when they feel a product not worthy of their cash is jacked up for seemingly no valid reasons other than profit.

People here, many, considered adding this to their coveted collections and home spaces, taking savings and efforts in doing so.

Practicing smart consumerism makes BETTER products for all.

Personally, I tried to turn this turd burglar of a day upside down, by opening and setting up my new Steam Deck, which so far is a spectacular consumer product, can provide endless enjoyment for years and years for me at a much cheaper price, and ironically allow me to play "better" versions of video pinball than what's up on that 10" LCD via Zen Pinball, Zacarria, and Pinball Arcade. The best of Lawlor, all the while avoiding 12K overpriced stinkers!

Lord. Seriously? I remember banging the drum wishing we had 4K displays in the head, and here this screen is shittier quality than an OG Switch. Yeesh.

Hmm. So having stated this, you feel it's a good idea to have more Disney themes, especially after this and POTC?

Other than that amazing, uh ramp, and that insane er scoop, that shitty quality screen is a major major feature.

I understand we/I have no idea how labor intensive, material cost oriented these games are, but come on JJP, these screens and figures are dirt ass cheap. The game's cost clearly is not.

If I ever buy another game, definitely leaning Stern. I wish American Pinball would shape up...

Oh, and is anyone afraid of that large screen being so low resulting in potential damage?

Really not the place for this, but this thread and site are largely filled with horse farts, myself very much included, so....

First game I bought was Houdini. Could have had at the time a WoZ, Dialed-In, Hobbit, and I regret that to this day.

That said, build quality is fantastic! I do appreciate non licensed themes, but the work that David Thiel did on those games, along with the genuinely incomparable JP de Win, and Keith and Joe's coding add unique elements that go beyond build quality. Sometimes I find their coding work obtuse to master obviously, but those key differences go way beyond build quailty.

I was the sole person, think so anyway, that mentioned yesterday that I'd LOVE to have seen this game grafted onto Oktoberfest. That game had so, so many pluses, maybe in ways more than I see here, but licensing, and theme balance matter more than what AP is strong at currently.

Art design, LCD integration is genuinely amateur in comparison compared to what de Win does, and I am NOT happy saying that at all. It's really does separate AP's games from JJP and Stern in a significant way. I don't know if that's a nepotism issue, but clearly that needs handled more than your code or Josh's or build quality.

Stern has blown me away with their development in these ways, and you can see great advancements throughout their games over the years, though their font usage is entirely insufferable all too often.

Anyway, some quick thoughts there. I hope/d AP would be a disruptor, but after 4 games, the direction still feels aimless, and even an overpriced half ass mess like this, still clearly feels more relevant than what AP is offering to this point.

Again, I dearly want better from AP. We all have. The industry clearly needs better competition. I definitely know I will never buy a NIB JJP again with these pricing structures and the owner's mindsets of cost saving over Jack's original vision of innovation over anything else. That JJP is clearly dead.

Time to step it up AP. Pull the pieces together fully, and you have an open shot. Bring on the Nordman, and Oursler's last game! We're waiting...anxiously!

Pretty sure that briefly lived SE, was $6750. It was stripped down a good bit, whereas the $7500 Wonka's were really, really solid/mostly intact!

Welp.....we need to focus on the good here.

The bad, (getting this out of the way) the most expensive JJP game yet.

The good, probably the LIGHTEST JJP ever!!!!!!

I saw thhis photo too, and definitely felt it looked eerily out of place, powered off and all.

As with any new game, definitely excited to try it! Owning things is an entirely different concept.

Screenshot_20220615-160139_Chrome (resized).jpg

Left the thread for a day.

Summary: People are disappointed. Some people played, and enjoyed it to differing degrees!

Still the biggest question since launch remains. Is this worth 12K? Definitely an individual answer met in time.

A sweet new release of Turtles has come out across videogame platforms, along with a couple other great indies.

I'm definitely in for 3 games on Steam today for $60. Still out for a 12K TS4!

Correction of the correction. Wonka and TS4 don't sound this good...!

Uh.......it was a joke pointed towards my bud Derek more so than the game?

No problem friend!

I miss the soundscape from David Thiel. We all do.

The lack of a uniform sense of sound design does hurt my appreciation for Wonka, more than any other element though. Nothing blends, sounds cut in/cut off, and kind of blare over one another in a way that feels nauseatingly overstimulating. I wish I didn't feel that way. It was maybe the one aspect that kept me away from that, now very sensibly priced SE....

The balance is POTC is just so, so damn ideal, it gets in my brain at times, even more so than DI or Hobbit. It's a part of POTC which isn't praised nearly enough, I feel!

Whoah. Seriously? You seemed pretty dedicated to this purchase from your posts in the thread.

I am DEFINITELY not one to pump, or even really support JJP at this point sadly, but maybe play it first before deciding.

Or if the CE is just an awful outright value, and you feel that earnestly, RUN for the hills or even to the hills Maiden style, and get out while it doesn't cost you financially!!!

Well...it's only been a day and a half since release.

Oh, I definitely think most of us will enjoy some games! No doubt.

It's just many of us here are batshit enough to buy these things for some reason, so the question is never is about fun...just how much fun is it worth, for home ownership purposes.

Seemingly this game is sacrosanct unless you've played it first hand, but I'm scratching my head here a bit.

Saw some dude on twitter criticizing J.P. de Win's work on this game, asked him questions, and then proceeding to watch Joe's video from Tuesday, and then Jack Danger's as well.

I'm a bit taken back by some of the design choices he's made here. Definitely not his best JJP work, and I wonder if Disney demanded/instructed certain things, or this was entirely his own design, as I always find his work some of the best aspects of a JJP release.

Why is the main score floating that far up in the lower blue score box, with that big empty gaping area below it?

I don't like when Caboom jumps, and the hoop pops up and blocks Buzz. Buzz is a key element of the design interface frame, and breaking that frame with a quick pop up looks messy, and breaks structure in a way that compromises that frame.

I also don't like the weird detached focused eye frame and arm extending from Buzz in the same area. It's jarring in how detached those elements are from one another, and not enough space exists for those two comic book type frames to appear in a way that compliment one another or either establish a dynamic aesthetic or functional action effect.

I'm not sure what is going on with the ultra tiny BoPeep and Woody figures in the upper right, and how teenie tiny the numbers are below them.

Also at some point a bonus is hit, and dozens of very, very small scores echo off the top of the main score. It looks bizarre, size wise compared to the main score, and again, super tiny.

Definitely a lot of clouds floating in the middle of the screen for seconds on end, which the twitter user mentioned.

There's more I noted, but can't remember offhand.

In contrast, POTC created such a nice balanced aethestic for that game. It served as a backdrop more with maintained mode tracking information, more so than distracting entertainment. The lack of character clips help maintain focus for the player, all the while allowing game objectives to be monitored seemlessly and without jarring the player away from actual gameplay. (Kind of the ideal for a backglass usage for me!)

Add in the smaller screen, the hot rails, the playfield lcd's, and the sound effects, and man this game seems an explosion of stimulation that maybe is more targeted for a kid on a sugar rush, holding a phone, while watching a Pixar flick on a tablet. Viewing Joe's gameplay, I found it tougher than usual to distract myself from the backbox LCD, and actually be able to watch the playfield.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Definitely correct there!

I guess here, it just adds to the jarring lack of harmony and balance presented in this GUI.

Generalizing what "the crowd/Pinside mob" feels doesn't really allow for individuals to have their own feel for a game.

That criticsm of GnR came after Eric's unbelievable debut, which even after it was minutely scaled back, still had an absurd amount of mechs and playful design on hand.

I still never am pulled in by GnR. Production of lcd, hotrails, etc. is fantastic, but at it's core it doesn't do fun/novel things, and I still feel the shot geometry is damning and shackling.

Still scratching my head over how relatively "accepted" this feels so far. It oddly feels like when JJP games were packed to the gills, they'd still get criticism, could never get a break past WoZ. Here this seems super barebones, yet people are told not to complain.

If Stern, AP, Spooky or any other manufacturer produced this, wouldn't it be even more harshly viewed than it is now?

Hot Wheels and Oktoberfest got largely shat upon, outside owners. I really am not a fan of the last Spooky offering/s, but man aren't those a bit more put together on the playfield than this? (Not saying I like the layout mind you.)

Just feels a bit topsy turvy.

So even despite the license not being ideal, is that's what's "saving" this from complete and total bashing?

Funny, watching that Katz gameplay had me hating the hotrails a bit. Just too much light flinged around in so many directions at once in this game between playfield lcd's, those and niw 2 large screens. I feel like I'm high and having a seizure just watching the damn thing!

On GnR, it definitely seemed appropriate, but not it seems a major feature, on the cheapo end of the scale. But hey, a scoooooop!!!

I watched half of this flick the other night. Seems odd that Forky is just peppered in this game. I thought he would be featured more.....

NO one will convince you to buy this game or not buy this game.

IF someone is capable of doing that, that is YOUR problem, not theirs.

Salesmen are still people, and do NOT deserve persecuted for trying to sell.

I've always found Zach, when asking him questions regarding potential sales (I haven't bought from him, yet he still replies every time I do, and PROMPTLY!) courteous, frank, empathetic, and not in any way, shape or form, pushy. Yanno, kinda not a stereotypical salesman at all actually!

It's great to look at the game, call bullshit to the Abess family for keeping their wealth theirs with these absurd prices and cost cutting measures, but just leave it at the game, and the people making those decisions to neuter these expensive toys.

Zach is a nice dude, (didn't create the game or it's price) and obviously a big pinball fan, like us all..!

I think I popped on here around when that was released. Definitely a lot of deserved flack.

I walked up to a Pro, and it was devastatingly barren.

But........that Pro/Premium was still several grand cheaper than this.

This is the double whammy of highest JJP LE, and least equipment of any JJP. If this was WoZ loaded, even at 12K, I think people would stomach TS4.

I'd love to see the underside of this LE, against a GnR SE. That at $6750, nearly half the price, seems a bargain just 1.5 years later....

I'm in the minority of loving JP due to it's lack of assets. They made it their own game. Reminds me more of some fun, packed BW era unlicensed games. And I never get tired of hearing an overpaid celeb, or not liking a sound alike.

POTC was a fantastic balance for me. Just enough movie influence, tasteful clips that are atmospheric more than obnoxious, overpaid actors, and Kevin McNally as Gibbs has such perfect line delivery, and is just a nice nod to the series. Magnificent balance!

And didn't Deadpool have the incomparable Nolan North? Dude is a powerhouse in the gaming voice over arena. Fits that theme perfectly! F' pricey stars!

Dr. Frightner?

Frightening!

Or well, Frightning. I remember the spelling was peculiar.