(Topic ID: 290919)

JJP Toy Story (any rumor confirmations?)

By Trojanlaw

2 years ago


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#20 2 years ago
Quoted from Trojanlaw:

Has anyone actually confirmed this is in the works and, if so, when we expect to get any type of announcement regarding it.
All I have seen are rumors in different places.

Toy Story was on a leaked internal JJP roadmap list year ago. Pretty strong indications Pat Lawlor is doing it (has completely it?) and it would have been out by now if not for COVID pushing everything back by a year essentially.

Then again, Muppets was also on that leaked list and it hasn't happened yet either and I've heard ZERO talk about it, so it might be dead at JJP (which is fine with me).

4 months later
#49 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I've heard the rumours of Avatar being after Toy Story, done by Eric.

Hope not. Total waste of a pinball machine and Hogbog 's talents.

-2
#51 2 years ago
Quoted from DruTheFu:

GnR has been out for a minute now. And no Toy Story/Matrix/Avatar in site. Welp, deposit down on TBL.
I wonder if JJP will make me second guess this.

A Hogbog original Matrix would be ridiculous. Zero interest in Avatar by Eric. No interest in Lawlor on Toy Story because he's essentially out of ideas based on his last 4 pins. I can get a Roadshow for $2500 if I want some dual shooter lane talking head nostalgia (and can put up with the VERY country music).

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Wonka and Dialed In are good pins

Just not for me. Dialed In, especially, got very repetitive the longer I had it.

Quoted from romulusx:

and I’ll take that $2500 Roadshow you were talking about?

There's one for $3200 right now in our area that could likely be had for close to $2500 since it is inoperable (sounds like battery damage) but otherwise looks like it's in good shape. It's not an uncommon price for that pin even in these days of pinflation.

#57 2 years ago
Quoted from SDpinballer:

Interesting to hear this take.

Every designer recycles elements (or mirrors whole layouts - I'm looking at you, Borg), but Keith at Stern and Eric at JJP bring an energy and new way of looking at old chestnuts of pinball design integrating them in a fresh way. Lawlor is just down to plain old recycling. It's boring to me. I'd love to be surprised by his next pin, but it will probably be what his last 4 or 5 have been - recycled "greatest hits" elements from other pins of his. Harsh I know, but based on what he's delivered it's where I'm at with his. I'd love to be surprised, though.

-3
#61 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I always find it amusing when people act like the recycling just started recently in their old age.
I missed what Wonka was a rip of...CSI? Not that i think it's that great or anything...hmm maybe it is CSI

For example, there was all the hype pre-release about how amazing and revolutionary the gobstopper mech was, and it turned out to essentially be the ToM trunk. Woo. Dialed In SIM card is the Cousin It shot, etc, etc, etc. I will say that adding photo taking ability to Dialed In was fun, but that's about it. That pin is a bunch of missed opportunities.

#69 2 years ago
Quoted from SDpinballer:

I’d love a surprise also. Would be great to have some more excitement for any game that comes from JJP, given the issues that are occurring. Like I said, I don’t know what it is regarding Wonka, maybe the unique, kinda all-over-the-place coding? Maybe the fact that it’s hard to figure out all the rules and keep track of them (still coding)? Could be the shots? I dunno. But it keeps me coming back for sure. Your response has made me desire to look into Lawlor’s last 4-5 games (don’t know off top of my head) and see if I can get some time flipping them; compare and contrast.

Dialed In or Wonka are a huge leap over the anemic BoM on his Stern stuff - CSI, Family Guy/Shrek (reskin), Nascar/Grand Prix, Ripleys, Rollercoaster Tycoon, Monopoly...basically just skip Stern stuff he did and look at NGG, Addams, Roadshow, Twilight Zone, and Funhouse from his B/W glory days.

#72 2 years ago
Quoted from playtwowin:

I'm concerned that this title will suffer from lack of assets. For the love of God is it too much to ask when we pay 11-14,500 on these new JJP games. If anyone is listening over there please realize this matters.

I think jjPotC was much BETTER for the fact that it had limited assets. The theme integration was outstanding without leaning heavily on movie clips that will get old in weeks of home play. It's not ALWAYS the case (Stern Jurassic Park, I'm looking at you), but a great license can still be a great pin even with limited assets.

#73 2 years ago
Quoted from adol75:

I want Buzz to have a Spanish mode

If we're going that route, I want a Japanese option, too:

In fact, make it a mode where when you hit a target or do some sequence while in the mode, it changes the callouts to other languages.

#75 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Quantum magnet is from RBION

Uh, The Shadow did it first and better.

#77 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Uh, every layout Borg had was ripped off from Lawlor and then swapped.
I thought we were talking aboot designers recycling their shit, but you just love reading yourself.

I only read myself when I'm quoted. So, you're right...I guess?

Yes Borg copies past stuff, too, but he also does a TON of mirrored layouts. Not sure what point you're trying to make. Lawlor copies old stuff, Borg does, too, and mirrors, as well.

6 months later
#421 1 year ago
Quoted from gorditas:

It would seem that something is imminent:
[quoted image]

The new guy always gets obscured by the volume indicator.

#423 1 year ago

Assuming those are the Toy Story playfields about to start the overseas builds and run until May, get those on boats, then build domestic stock in May so they can announce and start shipping in June.

JJP-04-11-22b (resized).jpgJJP-04-11-22b (resized).jpg

#427 1 year ago
Quoted from gorditas:

They always build overseas first?

I dunno about always, but usually. That way while the overseas ones are taking the month or so to get where they're going on the boat, they can be building the first domestic ones so they can have a launch worldwide in about the same timeframe.

#430 1 year ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Anyone recognize?
[quoted image]

That's just the "quality" seal. Same as on GnR playfields. It's an inside joke with Mirco that's gone on too long.

#445 1 year ago
Quoted from Vitty:

Certainly looks like GNR playfields to me
[quoted image]

Look again. Just at the part between the green lines. A lot more white. And a more distinct heart shape.

But maybe it's just the low-res of the picture.
pf-compare_jjp_2022_04_11 (resized).jpgpf-compare_jjp_2022_04_11 (resized).jpg

#459 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Plus they make a gazillion LEs. There isn't a reason to rush. Plus they iron out flaws. My DILE has a slower processor than later games, for example. It does affect animations sometimes. I wish I waited.

Spend 80-100 bucks (probably much less if you go used) and replace the motherboard/processor. They're just running celerons, which are dirt cheap. Problem solved. It's not hard or expensive.

#461 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

You would need an exact MB replacement to ensure the linux drivers are installed/configured.

No, no you wouldn't. Same chipset is good, but related chipset is fine.

How do I know? I've done it. On multiple JJP machines - WoZ, Hobbit, and Dialed In. In fact, on WoZ I HAD to deliberately go to a different motherboard to get around an attract mode lockup bug JJP dragged their feet on fixing for two years that was related to their linux kernel change with newer 6.xx code on early-run WoZ builds. I made a thread documenting how to do it for other operators that were tired of their locations calling/complaining about customers losing money in the machine.

#463 1 year ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I would posit that a CPU upgrade would suffice to smooth out the game. No need to update the mobo.

Probably, but I don't know what caused the cell phone animations slowdown, the CPU sucking or the chipset video of the motherboard. I guess you could do the CPU and see if that was enough.

#465 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Or be smart in the future and wait for jjp to do it for me.

In all other cases that took years. So if you've got the time, they've eventually got the beer.

#484 1 year ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

A mix of LE and standards first with JJP. CEs have been three or four months after shipment of the first game per my memory. Really though…with JJP…there is just no telling what order they will do or what kind of production numbers they may hit.
Anyone know how many machines a day at peak performance JJP does?

I think they were doing about 50/60 per week, which is less than Stern does in a day.

#497 1 year ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Gosh, barley over 2,500 units per year…if they were to have zero production interruptions. They really need to double that output while the market is hot and able to absorb it and release a couple games a year.
JJP has just never been able to meet the demand for their product going all the way back to WOZ…it’ll be almost two years between releases by the time Toy Story is official.

Well, they have a smaller line that can do spot runs of other titles, so the TOTAL output of whatever main game and sub game are running is maybe ~30% more a week (guessing?), so maybe 70-80 across both lines? But I don't know if they have run the same product on both lines or if the smaller line is always fill-in on older titles. But yeah, their output is much smaller than Stern's, owing to a smaller workforce and more complicated games with higher BOM that take more steps to assemble.

1 week later
#500 1 year ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

They're listed as a vendor here: https://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/vendors/
Which would make me think someone from JJP ought to be there. It sounds like MGC was also where Lawlor's last game was revealed too.
That all being said, it doesn't look like they have their own event or anything and none of the main JJP designers are listed as attending. So, it's hard to say.

I'm thinking another month or so. They seem to be making overseas ones and will probably make some domestic later in May (@50/wk GnR rate, maybe have a couple hundred on hand) so they can announce and start shipping in June. Getting close.

#512 1 year ago
Quoted from konghusker:

It’s not buzz light year!! People questioned the same thing about wonka, asking if it was depps wonka. Jjp understands what we want, and it is 100% the original toy story. I’m curious if it will be multiple movies or just the 1st though. Can’t wait to see it.

What if it was only Toy Story 4? Why are you assuming you're getting Toy Story 1?

#517 1 year ago
Quoted from thekaiser82:

That would cause me sadness. Pulling for original film.

princess-bride-disappointment.gifprincess-bride-disappointment.gif
#537 1 year ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Dude, it’s not going to be based on only one of the 4 movies unless it’s part 1. I’m assuming it’s part 1, and possibly parts 1-4 based off of common sense. Why would you assume it’s not using part 1? When has any other pin based off of a movie franchise not used the primary 1st movie?

okaaaay_okay.gifokaaaay_okay.gif
#538 1 year ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

This isn't very uncommon.
Terminator 2, Terminator 3, & Lethal Weapon 3 are some pretty common ones.
The Stern Batman game was based off of the 3rd batman in the trilogy.
You could make arguments for Star Wars Episode 1 pinball machine being the 4th movie in the series.

Indiana Jones 4. Like you said, not super-uncommon.

#547 1 year ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Again, released to coincide with the movie release. BIG difference here

Not so much. Schedules change. Games get switched around. Toy Story X was in development for a long time, and could have been intended to coincide with the Summer 2019 movie release, but things changed and we got Wonka instead.

Quoted from konghusker:

I’m confident it’s not light year, or based off of only 1 of the movies after part 1.

Noted.

Only a matter of weeks before we find out what's what.

#550 1 year ago
Quoted from PinDeadHead:

Did anyone attend the Midwest Gaming Classic? If yes, we’re any clues dropped by JJP regarding Toy Story reveal timing?

They already dropped the big clue with that picture of all the designers where they were standing around the Toy Story playfields, and pulling one out. The little bit we could see on the bottom playfield in the case (by the trough hole) doesn't match up to any existing JJP playfield, but DOES match up to Jessie's chaps from Toy Story. It was likely a picture commemorating the start of production, building the overseas ones in April into May, then the domestic launch ones leading up to June. June launch. July at the very latest, allowing for production snags. They likely want to beat Stern's Aug game.

#572 1 year ago
Quoted from toddtuckey:

something G R E A T is coming from JJP!!! Look for it in the AUTOMATED SERVICES Booth at PINTASTIC in June...and come and meet Frank and I, the TNT Twins, and "Fanboy John" along with the man MIKE DADONNA himself, and of course Jersey Jack himself! LOTS of booths reserved for us in the big hall!

On a scale of 1 to 4, which is it?

1

2

3

4

???

10
#621 1 year ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Why the F did they ever let someone like this go?

They unceremoniously canned Butch Peel, too, and he's responsible for the best manuals in pinball, ever. Since he left the manuals are smaller and less complete. Guns n Roses manual is still not finished, whole sections just not there, and what's there is less-than any manual Butch did for JJP. No idea what's up at JJP, but Lloyd and Butch were both huge losses for the company, and it was a self-inflicted wound in both cases. Weird.

#636 1 year ago
Quoted from seenev:

It's rare to find a company that values documentation as much as they should. It's often the first thing that gets cut when there are cutbacks and downsizing. Managers often don't realize how much of their institutional knowledge is in the minds of their tech writers. I work in documentation and there's often projects where the work is so compartmentalized that I'm the first person to put all the pieces together and discover problems or issues that no one else thought of. If a company cheaps out on documentation staff, it's very likely there will be more issues with the product than just the manuals.

Crappy manuals are pretty much the status quo in pinball, so that's why the Butch Peel JJP manuals stood out as something extra-special. Really top flight work. I don't think JJP falling back to the industry manual status quo signals anything more than "we're not going to exceed industry norms in this area anymore," which is a shame. JJP's self-imposed loss is CGC's win, though.

#671 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

I've been contemplating if and when the next jjp is announced. Which of my jjp pins I can do some trading with to get the next one ?
Maybe Pirates ?
LTG : )

I wouldn't do Pirates. You'll never be able to get it back again at a reasonable price.

But you'd have no shortage of interest, so there's that.

#674 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Not that big of a draw in my business. I wouldn't replace it.
LTG : )

Then you'll easily be able to sell it and have enough left over for a second pin.

#795 1 year ago

Why even limit the CE? It's their most profitable machine, and it's not a "Limited" edition, but a "Collector's" edition. Make as many as people want. Flipping problem solved.

#797 1 year ago
Quoted from Vespula:

I know that is a rhetorical question, but for the non-monks I think the answer is found outside of Tibet and located in a basic economics principle of supply & demand. In short, because it would drive down the price.

Not sure. It will DEFINITELY drive down the otherwise outrageous price on the secondary market (which is the aim). It's still a limited run. They will stop making them at some point. And they'll sell more than 500 at $15k or whatever, so same diff at retail, except that everyone that wants one gets one. If it has an additional mech or mechs over the LE, then they will sell at lot more than whatever they are limiting it to artificially.

Of course all of this also hinges on if people WANT the Toy Story movie they actually licensed and made, but that will affect the LE and the CE sales. I just hope Lawlor gives something actually NEW mech-wise instead of shopping in the Lawlor & B/W greatest hits vault for mechs and design cues.

#799 1 year ago
Quoted from Vespula:

This is a key point for the demand side of the equation. 500 of something that is a dud is 500 too many.

But if there's no CE number, there's no problem. Make what the market wants. There are not enough CE-specific parts where you couldn't just have them on hand without it being cost-prohibitive because the excess price of the CE over what the BOM cost is covers a lot of sins.

#806 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

What’s the #1 mech or toy does Toy Story need to be special?

Well, a forky is a no-brainer. Maybe commenting on gameplay like Smaug?

Possibly a ferris wheel ball transport like cyclone/raza? (I hope not, I hate these)

They could have scaled down discarded items from the antique store, including the talking dummy which would be a callback to Lawlor's Funhouse:

A duke kaboom jump ramp that comes out you can use to jump the playfield with a pinball bonus if you stick the landing:

It would be hilarious if JJP had some spot LED lighting and some specific weird figures from the cabinet party in the pinball machine cabinet.

Software-wise, maybe a perk system like Star Wars where what character you choose affects gameplay?

#815 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

I love you Monk but we don’t want no stinking forky or anything TS 4!
We’re all in for the 1,2,and 3 TS’s

I'm with you, but just being realistic. Steel yourself.

#816 1 year ago
Quoted from Vespula:

LED Lighting and figures in the pin cabinet? Brilliant, yes. Original? No.
[quoted image]

Toy Story 4 beat you by a few years. And...those ones walked and talked.

#821 1 year ago
Quoted from Noma2017:

I would guess it will be more original Toy Story and less Toy Story 4

Hope springs eternal, but reality is a harsh mistress.

Fingers crossed you get your wish.

#825 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

If you look at when this game was started I don’t think TS 4 was even on the storyboard?

Toy Story 4 was announced by Disney at an investors meeting in 2014, well before even Hobbit, PotC and Wonka were released by JJP. Treatment was done in 2015. Script was completed sometime in 2017. Steel yourself.

#827 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Ok I stand corrected but my money is still on the original trilogy!

If it's the original movie I will be thrilled as will many others. Original trilogy will be okay, too. But be prepared for the possibility it's not that.

But honestly, as long as it's a good pin design that's fun to play, it will tick enough boxes that people will enjoy it. My main hope is it's not a parade of Lawlor's greatest hits and actually has some cool new design elements/mechs. If this really is his last pin, would be nice to go out on a career high.

14
#841 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

What are the odds on custom Callouts from the actual actors? It certainly won’t “feel” right having impersonators performing the callouts…

Tom Hanks brother does pretty much all his Woody voicework for games, media, etc and no one is really the wiser. I'm ok with that.

#851 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

Maybe but what about Buzz?

I think Buzz is pretty widely imitated pretty effectively. They probably have a handful of excellent Buzz sound-alikes to use. I doubt they could afford Tim Allen for custom callouts. So if they're using movie clips, probably mostly Forky/Bo Peep etc ancillary characters and maybe Tom Hank's brother for the callouts and then actual licensed movie clips for everything else.

We'll see in about a month...

#865 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Then he shouldn't have said that.

Haha. Hard to argue with that logic. I mean if he's under NDA and he broke it a little, why stop there? Broke is broke.

#871 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

That top secret is The Matrix. Heard it from a very good source

It better be Matrix 1. I don't want any of that "forky's the psychiatrist now" crap.

#885 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

Are there really going to be 2 CE Versions?

That'd be a way to stretch it out, and would not be unprecedented. Stern did the Back in Black LE AND the Let There Be Rock LE for AC/DC.

1 week later
17
#989 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

GnR has left the line!

GnR wouldn't leave a line untouched.

#1020 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

toddtuckey seems very bullish about the month of June. Perhaps he can elucidate more here?

The man had to have a heart attack to win a Twipy and now you want MORE from him? Insatiable.

Less than three weeks. Pintastic show, supposedly. They've been building them for well over a month, so at their usual rate that means they likely have 200-300 or so stockpiled. I'm assuming a portion of those are for overseas launch and may already be on a boat.

#1040 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

I heard it will be another version of Wizard Of Oz. The Wicked Witches of the East version.
LTG : )

I heard something similar, but that they were partnering with Bravo for the Real Spinsters of Oz.

#1058 1 year ago
Quoted from hiker2099:

I think it will be SFGE in July. Right before Stern’s Aug release.

Pintastic, June 23-26. Seems to be the reveal consensus.

Let's just get it announced already so we can start complaining about something else.

#1101 1 year ago
Quoted from APfan1:

At this point it's who you know. If you're towards the top of a distributor's list, you are good to go. Personally, if I were a distributor and I was selling a CE to a customer, I would make a stipulation that I would be emailing them monthly to make sure they still have the machine. Time stamped proof or even a FaceTime session to certify that they haven't flipped it for a profit would be needed. If they have sold it, they move down the list. No answer to my email? Down the list you go. Simple as that.
Too many people ruining it for others just trying to make a few grand. Really sad.

Or JJP could fix the problem by just making as many CEs as the market wants.

#1107 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

But then you lose the meaning of it being a very limited number available which gives it its value

If it was merely cosmetic differences, I could see it, but adding the physical coma lock to the CEs only meant that if you wanted the most complete GnR with all the mechs, you had to have a CE.

And CE is just "Collector's Edition" there's no limit in the name like "Limited Edition." If you want one for the scarcity flippers, add some bling to the Collector's Edition and make a Limited Collector's Edition. But making all the CEs the market wants would solve the flipper issue for the most part.

#1109 1 year ago
Quoted from J85M:

Exactly if JJPs “limited edition” is pretty much endless with a total of 5000 units (which I keep hearing they have not hit the total 5k) then why not just produce an unlimited collectors edition for all the collectors and reduce the number of the limited edition tier a little.

The LE is really the equivalent of a Stern Premium, so why limit it at all? The nomenclature JJP has gone with is really what's a problem.

So have the Special Edition (formerly LE, no limit), the Collector's Edition (now unlimited), and Unobtanium Edition (special collector's edition limited to 200 with super bling and a 25k price tag).

It would essentially solve the flipping problem since the Unobtanium would have the same features as the Collector's Edition, just extra niceties/trim.

#1132 1 year ago
Quoted from MaxIsDead:

Plus given their shit performance on location I’ll probably never find one to play. Oh well.

We did GREAT with WoZ and later jjPotC (even at $1.50/play) on the route I helped with. jjPotC was the #1 earner the whole time we had it. The only dud was Hobbit. It did really bad.

#1219 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

I just got confirmation: Only 350 CE’s for this title. 100 Buzz’s, 100 Woody’s, 100 Forky’s and 50 Slinky’s

Toy Story 4 theme confirmed?

#1288 1 year ago
Quoted from unlockpinball:

Does this mean that Disney did a combo license for Pirates and Toy Story?

Toy Story's been in the works for a LONG time. Pretty sure it was licensed before PotC.

#1332 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Have we established that this pin is based on Toy Story 4 and not the Buzz Lightyear movie? When theme comes up, some people have been dancing around just coming out and calling it Toy Story. So I wonder if it is really based on BL and it won’t be called Toy Story per se.

The playfield bit that was visible looked like Jessie's chaps, which eliminates the Buzz Lightyear movie and reinforces that's it's Toy Story (and most likely TS4 based on the development timeline).

#1333 1 year ago
Quoted from PappaDubz:

I hope is not TS4
TS4 came out in June 2019
I thought they were working on this pin before that

You start working on movie themes way before they come out. Toy Story 4 was announced and development started in 2014.

#1336 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Wait what? Visible where?

Very grainy, but obviously art not on any previously released JJP playfield by the ball trough, and the post right after shows Jessie's chaps for comparison. It's the bottom of Jessie's chaps by the ball trough.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjp-toy-story/page/9#post-6877394

Also, it explains the "random" JJP Facebook picture by a stack of playfields with all the designers at JJP plus Jack. The only thing that makes sense is it was to commemorate the start of Toy Story production, and the tiny PF slice confirms it.

#1339 1 year ago
Quoted from Green-Machine:

My distributor charges $100. But I hear $1000 here on pinside all the time

The $1000 is JJP direct sales, AFAIK.

#1535 1 year ago
Quoted from gorditas:

Gasoline hit a $5/gallon for the first time in history this week. The vast majority of Americans, including those working in factories making things such as pinball machines, are being absolutely crushed by that and food prices. I honestly don't understand your assessment about a "mild" recession.

Only $5 where you are? It's over $6 here in CA, some of the full service stations it's close to $7.

#1538 1 year ago
Quoted from kapaun:

Can anyone read this or tell if its playfield layout?
[quoted image]

Definitely a playfield assembly guide for that station. Can't read the heading, though.

#1546 1 year ago
Quoted from APfan1:

$9.60 in Mendocino, California....

That's ridiculous. If I lived there, I'd make the short jaunt up to Fort Bragg 20 minutes away and fill up for $5.99.

#1548 1 year ago
Quoted from kapaun:

Are we expecting the playfield to represent a single location? Andy’s room, Toy Barn, Daycare, or carnival/town from TS4 (with antique store)

Carnival seems most likely scenario, but if there's a dumb ferris wheel for balls I will be breaking something. One of the worst features of Cyclone.

#1555 1 year ago

My wife had an all electric and then a hybrid. We loved the electric and hated the hybrid. I was trying to hold out until there was an electric Odyssey or at least the hybrid that's rumored to be imminent, but our 2008 was too many miles and too many repairs needed, so we had to get a 2022 and stick with gas for it. As soon as car supply eases up, we'll be getting another all electric for my wife. Electric cars are definitely the future.

#1571 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

And blackout days where only even or odd house addresses can charge to save on energy.

Solar with local storage is plenty to make this a non-issue in sunny states.

#1658 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I wonder if they will increase LE's to over $11K? which is a stupid number in my book especially since they were $9.5K a year ago

WoZ Yellow Brick Road LEs were $11,500, and that was with a reduced BoM 3 years ago.

#1659 1 year ago
Quoted from Nw55555:

man I played my GNR for 6 months and just couldn’t get into it… killing that left ramp over and over and over just was zero fun…

Don't do that, then. It's not mandatory to kill it dead. Plenty of other stuff to hit.

#1665 1 year ago
Quoted from Nw55555:

So how do you get patches then?

You'll get them in the course of play when you hit the left ramp and fail to lock or hit the bass. You'll also get them from the mystery award at the scoop. Forget about the patches and just play if your games are turning into left ramp hammering sessions.

#1679 1 year ago
Quoted from Bud:

You are almost a dollar too low, the national average is over $5/gal.

For every California, there's a Wyoming or Texas that pulls that average down. Wyoming is as low as $4.19/gal right now. When I was there a few years ago (my wife is from there) I was blown away at the 85mph speed limit and the super-cheap gas (there's an oil refinery in the middle of her hometown) that was less than $2 at that time. So it's no surprise they're about $4 while CA is $6 or $7 right now. Another strange thing is they had 4 grades of gas (not counting diesel) at stations we went to in WY. Hadn't ever seen that in CA.

#1729 1 year ago
Quoted from JDHHoover:

4 pops?
[quoted image]

So an Addam's Family-type pop bumper garden with a shoot-through?

#1735 1 year ago
Quoted from WODKA:

Doesn't look so. Four (instead of Addam's Familys 5) bumper placed in the back right of the playfield.

Maybe it's an orbit shoot-through? 4 seems like such a waste of real-estate.

#1810 1 year ago
Quoted from allsportdvd:

I'm pretty certain it's widely known that the next title is Godfather by Eric

Godfather makes no sense. The Matrix makes complete sense. Maybe Godfather was a code name for The Matrix? I hope so.

Speaking of Godfather, though...even if you're not a fan of the movie, watch The Offer on Paramount streaming. The cast is amazing and the series is extremely entertaining.

#1811 1 year ago
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

I don’t pay tax on my pins or from pinball life or Marco’s. So your not 100% correct. Maybe on what your selling.

Whether or not you pay the tax you owe, you absolutely owe tax on stuff you buy online. It's in the AZ tax code:

https://azdor.gov/individual-income-tax-filing-assistance/understanding-use-tax

I can't imagine compliance is that high, but if you're ever audited and you've purchased a lot of pins online over the years, penalties and interest on the unreported liability could get painful.

#1815 1 year ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

As someone who recently got audited I can confirm this is true. Also you aren’t only supposed to be paying taxes on new products but used ones as well. My Mrs Pac was made over 40 years ago and has been bought and sold several times but I still need to pay tax when I buy it because it’s not a tax on the item but a tax on the transaction. Or so it has been explained to me.

I'm not sure the used machine/casual sale law is the same in all states. In AZ law I linked to, a casual sale of a used item (not a car, there are exceptions) between people who aren't in business to sell that kind of thing wouldn't be taxed. Dunno how it works in UT.

#1817 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballpaully:

The Offer is incredible.

The whole cast is fantastic, but the actor that plays Bob Evans is incredible. He has the Bob Evans sound and mannerisms down cold. Also, the actor that played the eccentric Austrian Bludhorn part was always the center of attention when he was on screen. Giovanni Ribisi was also top notch. I could run down the cast one by one and talk about why they were great. Those three were the standouts, but literally the whole cast was just perfection. Lou Ferrigno even was in there as a mob goon!

#1819 1 year ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

HELLO EVERYONE...BEEN AWAY FOR SOME TIME.....GOING TO GET CAUGHT UP THIS WEEK AND BUY SOME OVERDUE MODS I HAVE BEEN WANTING...
NOTICE MY CAPS!!!!!
AND......
ITS 3AM....
ALREADY TEXTED JOE.....

Just texting Joe still? I thought by now you'd be sending him Cameos from Tan Mom and High Pitch Eric.

#1931 1 year ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

[quoted image]

Yeah, that has to be the CE. There's a pretty strong reflection of the shooter rod on the cabinet, so possibly foiled or very high gloss cabinet art.

#1950 1 year ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

You can also tell from the pic that the shooter knob is much closer to the coin door (like GnR and DI, and unlike Hobbit and POTC). Narrow body confirmed.

Plus Lawlor is anti-widebody.

To that I say, "BOO!"

#1959 1 year ago

He called those a "mistake" in some interview I read not that long ago.

He's wrong. There are plenty of poor widebodies, but TZ, jjPotC and Indy are three fantastic pins that would not be the same in a narrow body. For the right pin, widebody is the way. Saying narrow only is lame. Calling TZ and Roadshow a "mistake" because they were wide is moronic like the headphone jack he moved to the area of your knees on jjp machines, when it was just fine on the coin door. Jack said that was his doing, and, like saying all widebodies are a "mistake," that was wrong, too.

#1976 1 year ago
Quoted from jackd104:

I’ve read interviews where Pat alluded to TZ as a mistake in terms of Williams was unwise to give him free reign as it resulted in a game that was expensive to make and didn’t have popular appeal (even though it’s now a classic in home settings). Didn’t have to do with being a wide body. Are you sure it wasn’t that you read?

I just remember he said "widebody" and "mistake" which I disagreed with. I wish I could remember where the article was where I read it.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

One significant distinction is Pat also said in that same interview - some wide bodies (albeit TZ and IJ) were really standard body designs with a shooter lane added off to side. So widebodies made after that were the ones he’s referring to that were not good geometry. I don’t understand that comment either but I heard what he said.

Ah, maybe it was a podcast then...it's been a while. I don't remember the media, but podcast makes sense...

#1989 1 year ago
Quoted from TwilightZone:

If he said it, I hope he changes his mind. TZ remains the best game he ever made.

If this really is his swan song, doesn't really matter. I think the newer designers at JJP are fine with widebody if the game demands it. Hogbog destroyed with jjPotC. No way you'd have all those toys in a narrow body. If he's really doing Matrix, I can only dream what a Matrix widebody would be.

Also, Steve Ritchie did Star Trek:The Next Generation widebody. I'd like to see what he does with another unlimited BOM in a widebody for JJP.

10
#1990 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Well it’s official, we are in a bear market now. A 20% drop is the tipping point. As the smoke clears, we are still standing. Will this impact my decision whether to buy a TS LE? No. When you think about it, what’s lost is gone. Chances of market going up from this lower point are better than when market was 20% higher, right?
[quoted image]

stock-buy-the-dip (resized).jpgstock-buy-the-dip (resized).jpg
#1995 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

. . . don't forget STTNG

It's a cool pin, and I like the game, but I feel like a lot of the extra space on top of the PF was under-utilized. UNDER the playfield is another matter entirely, though - a subway maintenance nightmare.

So because it's not an unequivocal masterpiece like TZ, Indy, jjPoTC, I left it off. But it is another GREAT game that would not have worked in a narrow cab, and I look forward to Steve's new widebody at JJP that will beat it.

#2010 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

I must be a widebody slut because I like STTNG, POTC, TZ, IJ *AND* Hobbit.

No, you're just loose. You have to also like WWF Royal Rumble, Popeye, and Judge Dredd to be a card-carrying widebody slut.

#2015 1 year ago
Quoted from insight75:

Let us not forget the widest of the wide bodies..... Space Invaders.

He said slut, not whore.

#2199 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

It's a very niche frenzy, I doubt a website even poorly hosted can't take 10,000 concurrent connexions. A pinball reveal isn't the PS5 reveal or Black Friday

Cloudflare should help a bit with that. Looks like it's hosted in Austin TX. So getting a fast VPN with an Austin node will save you hops and maybe give you an edge on a CE purchase when the site goes catatonic at noon.

#2207 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Wondering if using an Iphone 13 vs Laptop would make a difference for tomorrow?

Cell network vs wifi sometimes makes a difference.

#2214 1 year ago

The sound of a thousand CE fantasies of TS1 or TS1-3 being dashed...

#2223 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Are they asking for deposit or the whole thing tomorrow?

Usually JJP wants $1000, non-refundable.

#2231 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

LE first always. CE run follows after a few months or so usually.

But, they've been making them for almost two months now...

#2236 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Ice, you really think TS will have the same fate as Halloween?

Not a chance. Reason 1? Toy Story 4 was designed by a professional with tons of experience on what works. I'm not a huge fan of the "Lawlor's greatest hits" approach to PF design, but there's no denying he has an encyclopedic knowledge of what works and how to make great flow. And Reason 2? JJP has fantastic animation/sound resources. Their jjPotC work was insanely good, and they all have a premium level of presentation Spooky can only dream of.

Spooky is way too new and under-resourced to even try this comparison. They still have a lot of growing to do.

#2242 1 year ago
Quoted from hiker2099:

I hate this. I can only afford about one game per year. I do like Toy Story,,,, But I am a huge BOND fan and am trying to stay disciplined enough to not go in on TS. Do you think there will be plenty on used market in a year?

Buy the Toy Story, play it for a couple months, sell it for Bond (or Jaws, or Cobra Kai, or Venom, or Harry Potter or whatever the next Stern is in Aug). You may take a hit on it (or you may not), but think of it as a rental fee. You don't have to KEEP every pin you buy. Enjoy them, then pass them on for the next one.

#2273 1 year ago
Quoted from solid_snake:

Here it is again. No idea if it's real or not.[quoted image]

My hope is if the topper is animated they learned something from jjPotC and they are using QUIET MOTORS this time. The PotC topper motor was ridiculous.

EDIT: WOW. This game looks packed. If the code is there (and it should be by now), lots to be happy with.

Hot Rails!
3 Flippers (at least)
Scoop
2 Spinners
Kickback
Newton Ball
PotC playfield spinning wheel
Multi-ball physical lock on left
Large playfield sub-screen with video pinball minigame
Pop up Duke Kaboom jump ramp
Medieval Madness troll head popup (gabby)

#2292 1 year ago
Quoted from Ktmat32:

Look forward to seeing the video. After all the build up, TS4 is a disappointment IMO, but machine still looks great. I’m sure it will be a great game. Good luck all.

The splash screen has a bunch of video on the CE if you can ignore the text over parts of it.

#2323 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

The ball lock mech that was taken out off ngg .. u got pop up and the jump ramp and spiinner disk also.

At least a design lesson was learned. The ramp comes up out of the PF instead of slamming down on the playfield and chewing it up over time like NGG.

Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

That playfield is…. Open. Could have been a p3 game.

Not even. The wheel, side ball lock, jump ramp and pop-up gabby are in the "dead zone" on a P3.

#2327 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Started with wonka but even that had tons magnets and neat stuff. Def seem to more about lights and bling now . That's to bad as I liked the old jjp but I don't see any more innovations just lots of recycling.

That's kind of to be expected with Lawlor who does "best of" mech and idea collections on his current designs. The next Eric one will have plenty of innovation.

#2332 1 year ago
Quoted from Cobray:

WOW I'm scratching my head on this one. I am a Toy Story fan but this misses the mark! No Slinky Dog? Nothing from the classic movies?

It being Toy Story 4 has been talked about for months, at least. People refused to accept it when it came up, but this should not be a surprise by now.

#2337 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I suppse was just hoping for something new... especially with current prices

Well, I remember saying a while ago I had zero interest in a Lawlor Toy Story with his usual "best of" recycled Lawlor ClassicTM ideas, but I'll say that I'm actually interested in playing this. Yeah, it's a ton of expected Lawlor recycling, but it looks fun. We'll see. I'll have it in for temp testing/mods for at least a month or two, so maybe I'll end up loving it.

#2344 1 year ago
Quoted from DropGems:

DI is for sure the best bang for buck

I just found it boring after a while. So many missed opportunities at theme integration with essentially useless PF decorations. The spiders, the drones, the one-note electric dracula. I kept waiting for him to start going crazy and behaving erratically, speeding up, slowing down, etc as the final battle got closer. Nope. Nothing. And then the repetitive climb through the disaster icons on the phone. Bleh. It's my second least-favorite JJP, Hobbit being the bottom.

But I will say that picture mode was a HUGE hit on location when we had it out. (And yes, that's a Batman'66 SLE in the lineup)

2017-08-26_Selfie Mode.gif2017-08-26_Selfie Mode.gif

#2352 1 year ago
Quoted from RGR:

Gezzz the playfield is quite underwhelming from the pics that I have seen. Looks like a cross between a Zaccaria and NGG.

Watch the video. It gives a better impression, IMO.

#2384 1 year ago
Quoted from solid_snake:

Wonder why they removed the external volume control?

They didn't, did they? In the pictures, it's in the usual place down below your knees on the left of both the LE and the CE.

#2388 1 year ago
Quoted from solid_snake:

Ah yeah you're right. I should have enlarged the image. I was only looking at the LE version and it sort of blends in with Bo Peep's leg. Glad to see it there.

I'd be happier to see it back in the coin door again. I hate the location of it.

#3345 1 year ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

As far as I know it’s still plays like a JJP. But they fixed the flipoets I believe so that you don’t lose flipper feeling and power the longer you play. And I believe Pat included a neat feature that senses when you are going to shoot for the ramp when it comes up and increases even more power on that left flipper so that you make the ramp with ease. Again that’s kind of secondhand knowledge. So I can’t completely confirm everything but that’s my understanding

I hope this means they have redesigned the driver board and are using a circuit that can do sub-millisecond duty cycles so flipper holds are finally competitive with Spike's magical system. Did you get a look at the electronics?

And censor...CENSOR.

#3359 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Are they purposely including annoying effects in Pat's games? That spinner bell is really cringe worthy. It's prob the worst part of Wonka's very poor sound and they now are using it for a spinner shot?

That did jump out at me, too. Really annoying sound effects and kinda meh music. Also, the hotrails light integration/lightshow is pretty generic. Maybe I've just been spoiled by GnR, but I expected more when it was clear late last night that hotrails were in there.

#3366 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Obviously over powering flippers will lead to heat and flipper fade.

Just powering the flippers will eventually lead to fade if you play long enough. Overpowering just gets there faster. Stern is the only one managing flippers right currently by doing microsecond duty cycles no one else can due to hardware limitations of P-ROC and custom boards that can only do millisecond duty cycles.

#3375 1 year ago
Quoted from dnaman:

Are the add-on cooling fans helping? I've been wanting to try that approach.
My GBLE has flipper fatigue as well as my HWCE. It is very noticeable with my GB and yet it is a Spike system. Thoughts?

They absolutely work. I've been offering them for over 2 years (starting with Stranger Things). I had to move to a higher CFM fan sometime after the first year for really tough jobs like Rick and Morty and JJP GnR, but since then it's been stable except for design changes I've made to cut noise. On the Tibetan Breeze product page here and on pinmonk.com there's a longer explanation with a link to a demonstration experiment to understand electrical resistance which is the core of the problem.

#3377 1 year ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

Damn you speaking all this sophisticated technical information!!! I did not not get a look at the boards or anything ha ha!

The potential board change JJP is supposed to be doing (has done?) is the most exciting thing to me. IF they redesigned the flipper circuit to allow duty cycles below 1ms, it will help JJPs heat problems A LOT and make them more competitive with Stern's Spike system, which is currently the industry leader for flipper coil heat management.

#3415 1 year ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Cake toppers
[quoted image][quoted image]

The crazy part is those are about $2/set (plus shipping) in the kind of quantities JJP would order.

#3443 1 year ago
Quoted from galore2112:

Bbbbbbut the supply chain!!! What if the container with cake toppers from China won’t make it over the Pacific in time!!!!! That’s a business opportunity. Buy a few thousand and then blackmail JJP if the shit hits the fan.

Haha, "plush shipping"- I really should READ what my fingers put out before I hit "send post." That clearly should have been "plus shipping."

#3445 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

All the MOANority going at it on Pinside and FB. Watching grown adults behave worse then entitled children is extremely funny.
Meanwhile.. To all the people that are excited about the game.. Please share all your experiences, my wife and I would love to see it.

The sound design seems atrocious, but I'm excited to flip it. However, I'm MOST excited to check out the redesigned driver board. I understand if that revelation causes you to want to slowly back away from me.

#3492 1 year ago
Quoted from Sorokyl:

No, the point of the giant screen is that its cheap. it's not an ipad... probably paying $20 a unit or so off alibaba. A toy would be more expensive and be much more subjective to supply chain issues.

More if it's 1080p and IPS. A TFT 720p would be in that range. IPS 1080p is more.

Quoted from JayLar:

Really thought there would be more mechs on this game. Seems like the giant screen on the playfield took all the money. I would take mechs over extra screens anyday.

If "all the money" was the $35-40 bucks an IPS 1080p panel with LVDS interface costs in quantity, there's a problem.

#3497 1 year ago
Quoted from dnaman:

POTC's audio is amazing. Need David back in a seriously bad way.
These pins are not and should never be consider on the same level as casino gambling games, yet here we are.

For sure. Once you know the sound designers for this were mobile game and low-budget video game guys, it explains why the sound design is so unpleasantly in-your-face. If they haven't done it already, I agree that JJP needs David Thiel back in a major way.

#3500 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Wasn’t David working at Deeproot?
Maybe he can come back to JJP!

Yeah, that's what I meant. I *hope* JJP snagged him when the Deeproot thing imploded and he was free again. Dunno if that happened.

#3514 1 year ago
Quoted from Dahawk007:

Are LEs shipping out right away? Does anyone have confirmation from any dealers?

Some LEs are going out to buyers this week. Dunno how many, but they've been building them for just over 2 months (production start picture was 4-11-22). At the usual JJP rate of 50/week, that's at least 400 pins made already, but I don't know how many went overseas for launch.

#3516 1 year ago
Quoted from PalmettoPinworks:

Am I the only one that thinks of this when they say the objective is to play Carousel?
[quoted image]

Haha. The only way to win carousel is not to play...

logans-run-recycling.giflogans-run-recycling.gif
#3550 1 year ago
Quoted from J85M:

Question for all those that have had a lot of hands on with past Lawlor JJP games, which is his best shooting game (ignoring theme) talking just the shots here… wonka? Dialled in?

Wonka.

#3555 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Wonka LE / CE has the following primary mechs. There's not only more of them as a whole but they are also significantly more mechanical and substantial compared to those in Toy Story. The toy offering on Toy Story just feels weak by comparison. Hell all of the main mechs in Toy Story are pop up devices...
1. Spinning gobstopper
2. Rotating gobstopper hole
3. Wonkavision
4. Wonkavator super physical ball lock
5. Kickback
6. 6 magnets under the playfield (not counting the others which stop / divert the ball
7. Subway
Toy Story LE / CE
1. Popup jump target
2. Popup posts
3. Popup troll mech
4. Kickback
5. iPad, I mean 10" LCD

Let's be fair here.

Wonka
1. Spinning gobstopper
2. Rotating gobstopper hole
3. Wonkavision
4. Wonkavator super physical ball lock
5. Kickback
6. 6 magnets under the playfield (not counting the others which stop / divert the ball
7. Newton Ball
8. Subway

Toy Story LE / CE
1. Spinning disc
2. 10" LCD
3. Physical ball lock
4. Kickback
5. Popup jump target
6. Individually controlled popup posts
7. Popup troll mech
8. Hot Rails
9. Newton ball

Subway doesn't do anything but has a strong effect on the game experience, so I'm also including the hot rails on Toy story. And the 10" LCD is like 3 Wonkavisions, right? There's plenty in the machine. We'll see how it plays...

#3571 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There's also a Newton ball in Wonka, there's other magnets to add and other minor features. The toys in Toy Story are weak by comparison.

Ok. It was your list, not mine. I fixed your list and added the Newton ball to Wonka.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Also, 99% of Pinsiders could care less that there's a 10" screen that is 3x the size of Wonka's (maybe 2x).

The screen does seem extra large, but I'll reserve judgment until I see how it's integrated into gameplay. The GnR stage screen is fantastic when playing.

I explained what I don't like about this from the videos so far, but we'll see what happens when I get my hands on it.

#3573 1 year ago
Quoted from djsolzs:

But is there 12-15k worth of stuff vs Wonka. Original pricing? I expect it will play awesome

We're talking in 2022 money, not 2019 money. Everyone wants a time machine, but they're hard to come by.

#3631 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

To be fair @ over twice the price

To be actually fair, 2017 Star Wars Premium adjusted to 2022 dollars is $13,678.

Makes $12k Toy Story LE that comes stock with invisiglass and a shaker (~$400 extra on Stern) look like a bargain, eh?

#3638 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

We must be using diff'rent inflation numbers. My Pro cost 6150ish in '22 dollars lets call it 6600 with shaker/glass.

You can't compare a Stern Pro to a JJP LE. JJP LE's are a step above Stern Premiums. Also, I was using inflation calculator to bring forward a 2017 Star Wars to 2022 dollars.

But let's do now. There's a Stern Premium Star Wars for the Aug run for $8999 + shipping (let's call it $300) add invisiglass/shaker (~400) +headphone jack ($100) and you're at $9800 for a bare "premium" pinball machine with 3 mechs (jump ramp, hyperloop, death star), no powdercoating, no camera, no bluetooth support for wireless headsets, a small monitor and a tiny screen.

#3645 1 year ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Not anymore...

That's ridiculous. You may be disappointed at what Pat delivered, but look at the bottom of a Toy Story LE playfield (I'll take a picture for you when it gets here) and compare it to any current Stern Premium. JJP has an obviously MUCH higher BOM. Not even close. Then if you drill down to quality of cabinet wood and other places Stern has cheaped out with "hidden" cost-cutting and JJP still has the upper hand.

The only negative from the BOM perspective is JJP's continued association with Mirco while his playfields continue to fail in the field machine after machine. HOWEVER, the GnR I got in Sept has been rock solid, so maybe that's finally fixed for good? We'll see...

#3648 1 year ago

Whoops, I was WAY off on the Toy Story 4 10" playfield screen. I assumed it would be 1920x1080 IPS (for good viewing angles) at about $35-40 in quantity. It's actually a $10 in quantity 1024x600 TFT panel.

Also that cover over the left ramp hides a coil magnet-operated diverter.

#3657 1 year ago
Quoted from wackenhut:

I think the biggest question is when the CE Machines are going to arrive. Looks like you can get an LE delivered tomorrow. If you bought one for 15K direct and it takes another 3 months to arrive, maybe it is worth it to purchase someones earlier spot for a small premium. If you really want the game that is.

They said Fall for CE shipping, so that's Sept 22nd at the earliest. If I put a deposit on a CE, I'd buy an LE and play it next week until fall then sell it when the CE is imminent.

#3661 1 year ago
Quoted from Goronic:

The average joe that wants a new pinball machine is SOL if they need a ‘reasonable’ price.

That's what Thunderbirds and Spinal Tap are for.

#3667 1 year ago
Quoted from wackenhut:

I agree with you, but would change it ever so slightly: If I put a deposit on a CE, I'd buy an LE and play it next week until fall then sell it and the CE lol
Why wait for a game you really want and probably be tired of playing it by then (it is basically the same game).

The people whose wives or kids or whatever want the CE and will keep it aren't selling when it finally arrives, and the LE for 3 months will let them have almost the full experience, except for lighting and topper. But your plan might work for people that were going to flip anyway and don't want to wait 3 months to see if it's even any good.

#3675 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

Lord. Seriously? I remember banging the drum wishing we had 4K displays in the head, and here this screen is shittier quality than an OG Switch. Yeesh.

Well, it's just the playfield screen, but it is disappointing.

#3677 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

Other than that amazing, uh ramp, and that insane er scoop, that shitty quality screen is a major major feature.
I understand we/I have no idea how labor intensive, material cost oriented these games are, but come on JJP, these screens and figures are dirt ass cheap. The game's cost clearly is not.
If I ever buy another game, definitely leaning Stern. I wish American Pinball would shape up...
Oh, and is anyone afraid of that large screen being so low resulting in potential damage?

They've got a clear plastic rectangle over the actual screen, so that's not really a problem, I don't think.

#3681 1 year ago
Quoted from Ferret:

Could you clarify that request? American Pinball ships fun, well built, solid earning games,

How long did it finally take to fix the Houdini audit screen so it didn't crash? We had one on location when the audits were broken with an update that fixed ball problems (so we couldn't go back) and after 6 months of asking for a fix, we finally decided American Pinball wasn't interested in operators putting their machines out (what op would put up with SIX MONTHS of MANUAL MONEY COUNTING?) and Houdini was sold. That was the last AP put on location here. Probably the last ever. Ask Barry about it, he probably remembers. I was asking him to ask Josh to fix it, too. That lack of professionalism would NEVER have happened at Stern. As a critical bug for operators, it would have been fixed in a few weeks or month at the most.

#3685 1 year ago
Quoted from Ferret:

Sorry, PinMonk, I do not know the answer to your question. I don't want to litigate any specific problems on another company's thread, so if you (or anyone) have concerns about American Pinball's support today, please don't hesitate to DM me directly, I'll be happy to help. Of course, American works hard to provide games that satisfy both commercial operators and home owners. I only posted in direct response to wesman's comment.

I only posted to make the point that AP DOES have an earned reputation to overcome, based on personal experience I had with super-unprofessional and long-running operator support issues. The person with the other comment you were responding to was not wrong.

That said, I think AP is headed in the right direction, and I hope Nordman's next pin does great things.

#3690 1 year ago
Quoted from Ferret:

Thank you for your feedback. It's good to hear that customers of other pinball manufacturers have received flawless machines and flawless customer support, and I assure you that American Pinball is working hard to achieve a similar level of perfection.

Sarcastic and unprofessional response to real feedback about prior operator support problems at AP validating the other poster's comment that they "wish AP would shape up."

Alas, tomorrow is another day. Hope springs eternal.

#3853 1 year ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Stern has developed and optimized its pinball platform to be simple and modular, JJP is still using a pc. The reason JJP games look busy has nothing to do with quality or good design, in fact it’s the opposite. TS4 has cool lighting and little else from a pinball standpoint.

Look at us! We're doing it! I give an opinion, you give a different opinion. We're debating!

Paul_Rudd_Look_At_Us_sml.gifPaul_Rudd_Look_At_Us_sml.gif
#3867 1 year ago
Quoted from smokinhos:

So.. let's say you're not an early adopter. Im not, the theme IS a letdown (TS4 vs TS 1-3), but the game still looks fun. Where will the resale for the LE end up? Msrp? 12k? Less? Is this the pinball community saying too much? There was no way JJP could have sold this for $11k to match Wonka or GnR, or should they have?

There's really no way to know until people start playing them and seeing what the game actually IS. Even if low demand causes owners to take a hit, I think it's maybe $1500 max if you look at other recent pins that the market isn't hounding after like Mando Prem which often goes for 300-1200 less than MSRP. If you keep Toy Story for a year and sell it for $1200 less than you bought it for, you got a rental for $100/mo. In olden times we almost always assumed a new pin was going to sell for less when we sold it. This appreciating pin thing is pretty new.

#4201 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Wonka & TS have an unfinished temp style synth soundtrack & rando annoying sounds - that is common on apps & slots. The guy who does their music - his resume is, guess what: apps & slots.

I think Wonka and TS4 had different sound designers, because the company that did JJP TS4 sound doesn't list Wonka, they don't list slot companies as clients and they pretty much just list apps and d-level video games on their resume.

But their sound and mixing approach is similar. Thiel back for Matrix, please.

30
#4230 1 year ago
Quoted from Scandell:

Such a lame argument. As if we can’t tell when a game is fire or when it’s a lame duck from video playthroughs

This comment is completely ignorant of the recent history of JJP launches that follow the EXACT same pattern:

2016 - Dialed In reveal - massive hate and snarky "a cell phone pinball? Dad jeans on the hero?" comments that turned into, it's...actually okay! Some people think it's JJP's best.

2017 - PotC reveal - grousing and complaining about lack of wheels, non-functional chest, giant area with Depp's face. This feedback and the cancellations BEFORE ANYONE EVEN PLAYED IT (including ME, but I course-corrected a few weeks later and got one) in any numbers caused JJP to cut the run short. Then when people got to play it, it became VERY desirable and is now the most expensive JJP on the secondary market because of the very short run from all the initial cancellations and complaints (plus it's a GREAT game).

2019 - Wonka reveal - "It sounds like a slot machine" - "BRAT Multiball?" - "Where's the innovation?" - "Rehashed Lawlor's greatest hits" (some of these may have been from me) - Annnd, people like-to-love it, and sales have been fine.

2020 - Guns n Roses. "There's too many multiballs" - "I hate the songs" - "Can we replace the music?" - and yet, demand was off the charts. And, if it hasn't passed WoZ in sales, it eventually will due to the massive start.

2022 - Toy Story reveal - we'll see, but so far the pattern is holding with a strong start of complaints and whining about it being Toy Story 4, DESPITE persistent rumors that it WAS NOT going to be TS1, 2, or 3 and WAS, in fact going to be TS4. I'll have one next week to form a firsthand play opinion. Karl DeAngelo's supposed to have his any day now, too. Interested to see what he thinks...

#4240 1 year ago
Quoted from beltking:

There a few amazon reviews of the cake topper bases being bent or the figure snapped in two. I don’t know if these will be durable long term. There’s an extra set in the goodie bag. Prob replace mine with hood ones.

If you don't mind waiting, much cheaper on Alibaba. In JJP quantity that set is literally like $2.

#4241 1 year ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

The first airball that hits one of these suckers it’s going to be plastic schrapnel all over the playfield if these are made of the usual brittle plastic most cake toppers are.

Character shield mod incoming.

#4249 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

Also at some point a bonus is hit, and dozens of very, very small scores echo off the top of the main score. It looks bizarre, size wise compared to the main score, and again, super tiny.

This has been a JJP thing for a while now. PotC, Wonka, GnR and now TS4 all do it. Without checking, I don't remember Dialed in doing it, but I feel like maybe Hobbit did, too? Dunno. But the last four JJP games have had this. It's not a TS4 specific thing.

#4259 1 year ago
Quoted from thewool:

A few years ago you would not have bet money on Stern games having more tech under the hood than JJP, yet here we are.

Stern? More tech under the hood? Aside from the better-integrated insider connected, to what do you refer? Magnets? Newton balls? Coil-operated toys? Servos? Elwin has used old pinball chestnuts in new and clever ways, but what is this new tech you speak of? Stern doesn't even have bluetooth support for wireless headphones (or an included wired jack) or a camera. They're hardly the tech leader except for insider connected and their magical flipper heat management tech.

I may decide Toy Story 4 sucks, but we'll see where I end up when it gets here next week and I've had some time on it. I've owned every JJP except Wonka, which I have played enough to know I didn't want, so I have plenty of JJP-specific perspective. I don't really see the need for lamentation and the wearing of sackcloth and ash over what's been seen so far, but it fits with every single JJP launch to date, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

#4260 1 year ago
Quoted from koji:

Moral of the story, is I should have bought out those cake toppers while they were cheap.. no doubt the Amazon algorithm is doubling the price any time now

Just go to the source. $2-4 a set on Alibaba.

#4262 1 year ago
Quoted from thewool:

Sorry tech probably wasn't the right word, maybe innovation was right as you suggested. But yeah, fresh ideas, something that felt exciting. The first time I played AIQ I had no idea where the ball was coming from, it felt great. The TS4 reveal sunk me... a tablet to play a poor version of the real thing, 2 spinners, hit a target during multiball for jackpot (really?!). Theme integration is also terrible. There is nothing about this game that captures the heart and essence of the Toy Story universe, they have been reduced to fluff.
My point is that I was a staunch JJP fan and they have totally lost me. I was ready to 100% buy Wonka and TS but alas... Good for them if they are selling games though.

It's not the end of the world. They lost me on Wonka (another Lawlor), but just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in with GnR, which I really like a LOT. In the end, it's only pinball, and there will be another one shortly.

when I thought i was out they pull me back in.gifwhen I thought i was out they pull me back in.gif
#4337 1 year ago
Quoted from Xelz:

Didn't JJP just finish expanding their production capacity? With 4(?) designers on board now, it seems like they must be targeting two releases per year.

JJP's been trying to get to two releases a year what seems like forever.

#4349 1 year ago
Quoted from kapaun:

I bet this is it. There are also a lot of people who were not thrilled with Toy Story to begin with, and only looking forward to innovation from JJP and Lawlor.

Anyone looking for innovation from Lawlor in 2022 hasn't been paying attention. He's been on a "greatest hits" mech tour for years. What's the last truly original playfield mech he's debuted? I think you'd have to go back to Bally/Williams for that. He's a master of flow and his pins are going to shoot well, but innovation or reinventing something in a new way? Look to sk8ball or Hogbog for that these days.

#4352 1 year ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

JJP is not gonna fuck you bro, quit simpin. Thanks for the cool 80's casino sounds though. Great point.

To be fair GNR was almost universally praised when it first released. It wasn't until later people started griping about too many multiballs and it being a box of lights. To be more fair, this might go even further to prove your point.

There was plenty of GnR whining about trivial things, even after deliveries started. Let me direct your attention to the VIDEO reaction (sound familiar?) in the GnR owner's thread, post 41:

"First reaction to video: the scoop and the spinning record. That's going to the 80% of the shot interaction by your average player. And both are kinda ehhhhh. A scoop dead center, and the spinning record toy we've seen a million times. The middle area is really where you want the big interactive toy or money shot. And it's a scoop?

So what is the big interactive mech in the game? The balls lock on the Gibson head. There's a little upper playfield. A spinner and 3 ramps. Feels like something is missing..."

Feels. Like. Something. Is Missing. Deja vu, even on what's pretty much the most acclaimed JJP pin at launch. Not saying it's impossible for me to join the "I hate TS4 party" at some point, but if I do, it will be after I've spent a lot of hands-on with it.

#4355 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Stern, baby. Stewie mini pinball. CSI Skull lock was pretty cool, too.

I'll give you the Stewie mini pinball, but still that was 15 years ago (and something I didn't ever need to see again. Munsters mini-pf was unnecessary abuse). CSI skull lock is just a vertical iteration on Dr. Who, Pinbot, Bride of Pinbot, Jackbot, ball lock, but it is neat, and also 15 years ago.

Oh, and I just remembered that the water works saucer sweep on Monopoly was kind of a fun idea that I don't think was used in a pin before. But that was also 21 years ago.

My point stands.

#4365 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

I think the Quantum Theater in Dialed In, is an original mech, a see through screen coupled to a magnet that makes the mech behave differently while displaying the corresponding image on the screen. It can act as a drop target, a spinner, a saucer, it's versatile and brings great depth in a game as a multi facet mech.
I don't thini I have ever seen that before Dialed In.

Nah. It's just a small screen with a magnet and opto that does the sanctum lock ball pullback performance from The Shadow (and does it way worse). Nothing new there, and way less cool than hyped. Like I said, he's all about pinball's greatest hits.

#4373 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

It's the combination that makes it new, and having different effects on the ball, I find it super cool especially as the centerpiece of the playfield

Have you ever owned The Shadow? The ball pullback effect and choreography with the sanctum multiball start is way better there. There's no different effect on the ball in Dialed In. Pass through or pull back, same as The Shadow. If you've never had a Shadow, I highly recommend it.

#4377 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

Keep trying to steer the mob. Hey, can’t blame ya fer tryin’…

Why do I care? I'm just trying to get the more ridiculous comments back to earth before anyone's had a hand on the machine to actually KNOW whether it's fun or not. It's not like I get anything from JJP if people BUY one. What do you think my angle is on this besides the obvious - none?

Quoted from underlord:

Gnr is blasted for its lack of mechs. So that thread was correct.

And yet, it's an amazing game. There's plenty of mechanical action. Don't take my word for it. It beat Stranger Things and Avengers:IQ for "Best Toys and Gimmicks" TWIPY award. Best Theme Integration, too. And, of course, was awarded Game of the Year over AIQ and Rick and Morty.

Seems like maybe perspective has to do with whether you think it has a lack of mechs (aka "toys and gimmicks").

Quoted from underlord:

TS4 looks sparse and childish. I don’t care how it plays, if I’m not feeling it it ain’t happening. Price is ridiculous.

Opinion based on videos only noted.

Quoted from underlord:

One last thing: hoping that 15 grand helps the warranty. Anyone got a copy of that?

Looks like the same one from GnR - Mar 2021 revision where they removed the explicit playfield coverage:
Ts4_warranty (resized).jpgTs4_warranty (resized).jpg

#4380 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

I don’t have to play it to know that an iPad takes up 25% of the pf.

Come. On. the 10" LCD with frame does not cover 25% of the playfield. I'll measure it out for you when it shows up, but I imagine it's in the 15% range. THIS is exactly the kind of exaggerated complaints based on video alone I'm talking about.

#4407 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Frankly Pinmonk, you sure seem to care, as “Johnny on the spot” always. You’re appearing to be one of the JJP apologists/sales people. The mop up moderator and promoter for JJP. Lol.

Look, I'll do this same thing for Stern. I HAVE done it. Case in point is the thing I know a LOT about. Flipper fade. I continually praise Stern for their forward-thinking almost-magical flipper coil heat management. They decided to make their hardware capable of doing sub-millisecond duty cycles. JJP and everyone else, literally EVERYONE, is stuck at 1ms minimum. That makes a HUGE difference in flipper hold. When held, Stern Spike machines will generate almost no heat (like 1-2 degrees) even if you hold the flipper for a half hour. JJP and everyone else will keep heating the coils even in hold, even on dual wound ones. So it's a huge advantage, and big props to Stern. Literally NO ONE was talking about it before me. No one.

JJP changed their driver board for Toy Story 4. Is it to better compete with Stern on heat? Dunno, but I'm super-excited to check it out.

Quoted from Thunderbird:

It’s easy to say hold our opinions till we play it, because all good salesman know that’s an argument to pressure people into buying. Any of us hobbyist know whether this is fun or not, by the streaming of TS4. We don’t have to have hands on, as we’re very experienced with many prior pinball games and how they play.

But I'm NOT selling Toy Story 4 machines. Where do you get this idea? (And JJP, if you have this same idea, PM me for my address to send the commission check).

I'm plenty experienced with pins myself, having owned well over a hundred and probably played many hundred. Even with all that experience, I can form some opinions pre-play, but there's zero substitute for putting your hands on a machine no matter how much experience with pins you have.

#4408 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

I guess K man canceled his CE [quoted image]

So, apparently, it IS now just like every other JJP launch.

#4419 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

My point was that that Lawlor still had some creative mech magic in him after B/W, with a restrictive Stern BOM on games that sold for $4000 or less NIB.

But that still leaves the question, "Where did it go?" The last drops of magic cited were over 14 years ago, and he had a giant BOM comparitively on all his JJP games compared to the lean Stern years. sk8ball and Hogbog are pulling new ideas or new spins on old ideas with mechs and playfield layout with every release. Multiples, not just one. It's just disappointing Lawlor settled into his "pinball's greatest design hits" for the machines in the back end of his career, especially when there was no BOM excuse and JJP was thrilled to have him.

#4421 1 year ago
Quoted from zermeno68:

Did you play the game in the wild around the LA area?
I live in Ridgecrest, Ca which is about 2-2 1/2 hours to LA area and would be nice to play one in person.
I got my CE in order, but wanna get my hands on one.

Looks like Ayce Gogi has theirs. West Hills location, so 150 miles from you.

ayce gogi west hills (resized).jpgayce gogi west hills (resized).jpg

#4424 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

Looks like a Wonka in that pic…

A wonka with a Toy Story 4 title screen?

#4468 1 year ago
Quoted from Stef95:

And to think that I was thought crazy for having paid 12,000 for a POTC a year and a half ago.. I don't know if JJP has planned to manufacture large bodies in the future? there would be more room to integrate new features. The price might be a little better justified.

Lawlor is on record as anti-widebody now. Therefore, this particular pin was never going to be a widebody. But I hope Eric's next pin is back to widebody. Give Hogbog room to go crazy with the design and mechs like he did on jjPotC.

#4687 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

It's pathetic that a mainstream pinball company in JJP's position (making premium games) can't engineer perky flippers that don't fade. WTF?

Which pinball company can? They ALL have the problem, because physics. Electrical resistance is a thing.

Stern comes the closest to managing (note MANAGING) the flipper coil heat because they had the foresight to include hardware in their Spike2 design that could do microsecond duty cycles (while all other manufacturers are stuck with relatively gigantic 1ms minimums), so in hold they gain almost no heat, no matter how long you hold the button in. Flips are still a problem and will still build enough heat to fade over time, even on a Stern. But Stern is doing the MOST to manage flipper coil heat and they still have fade, so not sure what your point is here.

All that said, JJP has a new driver board debuting on Toy Story 4, and it's supposed to address the excessive clipper coil heat of prior machines. Very excited to check it out and see if they are able to do microsecond pulses now. I'll be temp testing and checking duty cycles for sure.

EDIT: Boo. Just saw the post that said one on location the poster played was fading, so looks like it's still an issue. I guess now a temperature progression chart will be the important point of comparison to see if the new board at least delays fade onset and reduces severity.

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#4689 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Broke ass hoes

I hate it when that happens.

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#4691 1 year ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Forgot to add, that the flippers felt like your standard slightly mushy, slightly weak JJP flippers.
They felt the same as other JJPs, and they definitely faded over the course of the night.

Boo. I was really hoping JJP actually was managing flippers better with the new driver board. Bummer to hear this. Who will be the first manufacturer to join Stern Spike2 with microsecond duty cycle abilities for flippers? They're ALL going to have to move to it eventually.

#4698 1 year ago
Quoted from coop:

I bet it was great. Unfortunately, on location after a lot of play, NO ONE was able to make the shot all night due to weak flippers. People said it was working earlier in the day but I didn't see a single person make it through the ring of lights—I took about a dozen shots and it just didn't have the gas to make it all the way. Soon, I just gave up and avoided the shot but that really cripples the enjoyment of the game—and your points I'm guessing.
...
Toy Story has some things going for it but they may need to include flipper fans or redesign the flippers overall. I can see how this might not have come up in testing as you have to play it hard for a few hours first. They probably need to change their QA process as well so they can catch these issues before the product is released.

There's nothing to "catch." Electrical resistance in the coil increases as heat advances, so the same amount of power does less work over time. Increasing the power once it starts fading just makes the problem worse because more power is more heat which creates more resistance. The only way to address it (and this is the same for every manufacturer) is to:
Stop playing and let the coils cool down, or...
Cool the coils actively externally, or...
Provide less power to the coils.
Less power isn't sexy or desirable for play, but by just changing the duty cycle, you can give it less power in hold and cut a ton off the heat over time, especially with trap players. BUT only Stern has the hardware to support a sub-1ms duty cycle at the moment. All of them will eventually end up going this way in the future.

I have a JJP specific version of the Tibetan Breeze flipper cooling kit that's testing right now that should fit ALL JJP machines, not just GnR. I've been working on it since last summer, going through a bunch of iterations that didn't work out for one reason or another. The problem with JJP for external fan brackets is they have super-tight clearances on flipper plates in all their machines, so for some it's just impossible to mount the brackets I designed years ago where they need to go for best cooling. Hopefully I'll have the word that this recent (final?) design works in all the JJP machines in the next couple weeks. If that's the case, I'll be able to ship a kit that works for all JJP machines by Aug. And, if the existing GnR-type brackets work for Toy Story 4, even sooner for Toy Story 4.

#4701 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

Yep it looks like there's plenty of room under TS4 palyfield to fit these brackets

I'll have my Toy Story 4 this week to know for sure (and temp test), but I kind of doubt it. Especially for the right flipper. Historically JJP puts the flipper plate VERY CLOSE to the ball trough, making mounting from that side impossible. GnR only works because the other side has *just enough* to clear it.

#4712 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Since JJP uses B/W mechs, it's clearly a difference in the hardware/software that drives the flippers (AND MY POINT IS IT"S A PITY JJP HASN"T IMPROVED THE hardware/software that causes the problem). I realize you sell flipper fans and want everyone to believe this is a physics problem that applies to ALL games, BUT IT DOESN"T.

This makes no sense. It IS a physics problem. It can be mitigated by good design and clever hardware, but the physics of electrical resistance are well established. And I maintain and publish a CHART (example below, for your reference) on the Tibetan Breeze product pages that show which machines have better or worse flipper temp performance with the max temperatures over a 60-120 minute test period (older tests were only 60 minutes, my current ones are 120 minutes for a better fade picture). I don't want ANYONE to buy a Tibeban Breeze cooling system for a machine that doesn't need it, so your assertion is complete and utter churlish-for-no-reason poppycock.

Until I TOLD YOU that Stern was using microsecond duty cycles on Spike2, you had no idea. It wasn't even in the conversation about fade. Go back, look it up, I'll wait. But despite that somewhat magical Stern innovation that now is IN THE CONVERSATION, Stern STILL HAS FADE, sometimes extreme fade with certain machines. Their improvement really only benefits trap players for the most part because they abuse hold. You must know that the average pinball player is not a trap player.

The mechs make little difference. It's all about the duty cycle, because that controls power over time that's getting to the coils. And power causes heat and heat causes resistance which makes the same power do less work, etc, etc blah blah blah.
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#4715 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

Don’t be too sure that there hasn’t been any improvement to the flipper coils….check out the video I posted and watch how many times the pro player hits that ramp shot with no apparent fade…I don’t think you would expect that with the recent JJPs…Im convinced there IS some improvement regardless of the anecdotes floating around…

Supposedly the game boosts the flipper power momentarily just for that shot, which is great until fade happens, then it won't help at all.

Temp testing will answer some of the questions. Testing the duty cycles will answer even more. I'll start as soon as I get the machine, supposedly late this week.

#4721 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

Don’t be too sure that there hasn’t been any improvement to the flipper coils….check out the video I posted and watch how many times the pro player hits that ramp jump shot with no apparent fade…I don’t think you would expect that with the recent JJPs…Im convinced there IS some improvement regardless of the anecdotes floating around…

I just got word that Karl DeAngelo will be streaming Toy Story 4 with temp gauges on his iepinball twitch stream that update in real time as he plays. It may be streamed as soon as tomorrow night. I'll definitely be tuning in to see if he beats the wizard mode twice to truly complete the game in 2 hours, and what temps he gets in that time.

#4722 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

Most people were expecting a price increase but not the theme solely focused on the fourth movie and them stripping mechs/toys out of the game to a Stern pro level. Glad your happy and excited but sadly many are very disappointed what's under the hood for 12-15K.[quoted image]

The upside though is it looks like the GnR JJP Tibetan Breeze brackets may fit Toy Story 4, so no wait for the universal JJP bracket's release.

#4724 1 year ago
Quoted from Scandell:

The official name of this game is “Toy Story” not “Toy Story 4”. Wrap your head around that!

The Shadow already has legacy dibs on the TS abbreviation, so TS4 it is for pinside's purposes.

#4731 1 year ago
Quoted from usandthem:

Lack of flipper fade... just another thing that Williams/Bally had mastered (30 years ago!).

Ask any tournament player. Bally/Williams pins are not immune to flipper fade, especially with the caliber of players now that can play them for hours straight, one after another.

#4732 1 year ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

I thought I heard Pat say that Meet Me at the Carousel + Fireworks was the final wizard mode?

There are two sides to Meet me at the Carousel. One each for Woody and Buzz. You have to play through everything to get the first meet, then everything again to get the second version of Meet Me at the Carousel.

#4734 1 year ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

Ah, that makes sense re: the "Meet Me"

The rule sheet hints at it by putting Woody and Buzz at opposite ends of the sign.

pic15 (resized).jpegpic15 (resized).jpeg
#4747 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

I believe you, but in all my years of playing a ton of WPC games, I never really noticed it. Have you done any measurements to compare WPC heat gain to those same mechs on a JJP?

Not yet, but there's plenty of anecdotal tournament evidence from late tournament noodle flippers on some older B/W games. Once I get all the modern ones covered, I'll work backwards, but I think since normal people play older B/W games for shorter periods of time in a home setting, the need for active cooling is way less. Probably why you never really noticed it.

#4752 1 year ago
Quoted from koji:

The hold is not the issue.. it's that quick successive flipping which really drives up the heat from what I gather.

Agree on your multiball frequency on modern machines hypothesis being a contributor to fade.

But, if you're a trap player, hold IS a heat issue on anything except Stern Spike systems. If you hold a JJP or Spooky or CGC machine's flipper up for 5, 10, 20, even 30 minutes straight, you can watch the temp continue to rise (and on a whitestar system you'll probably eventually blow a transistor). On Spike the temp will budge maybe 1-2 degrees, that's it.

#4790 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I find you exceptionally disrespectful and will try and avoid you.

You're in luck! It's even easier than you imagine to do this! Click on my user name to the left of this post, then click the "ignore pinmonk" button. Pinside will make sure you're not bothered by my posts ever again, simple as that.

#4794 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

My kids have requested The Mandalorian....thats one title that doesnt seem to retain value....not sure why?

It's just not a super-popular layout and doesn't have many toys to interact with. They shot their BOM wad on the tilting helmet playfield that I still have no idea why it's there and what tilting it has to do with anything. I have a NIB Mando Prem coming in for mods that will be in the marketplace probably within 3 weeks or so for around $7700 - with that price idea, I'm already prepared to take a fair loss on it to move it through after mods since I have too many pins here and showing up at once right now. So if you're still in the market in a few weeks, easy way to try it out without paying too much in case your kids don't like it.

#4797 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Well you’re totally wrong about that one Pinmonk. The layout is a Brian Eddie layout and is sooooo fun to shoot. Numerous interactive toys. It’s a go to machine for many of us. The code is stellar, so you’re up in the night on that one. Would have guessed you’d spear Stern, as you pump anything JJP. Your motive is becoming much clearer now…his kids will love it, just like mine do. It’s an exciting fun shooter with awesome shots and toys. Your comments about the upper PF show how clueless you really are. I’d stick to making high priced fans for JJP extreme flipper fade issues, instead of becoming a clueless reviewer, lol.

So, you have a difference of opinion with the market on Mando (the market's pricing is borne out by the used sales, no less - check for yourself). It's not the end of the world, it's a debate. Different opinions. Remember those? Where's this vitriol coming from?
Paul_Rudd_Look_At_Us_sml.gifPaul_Rudd_Look_At_Us_sml.gif

#4811 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

But unlike JJP, Stern replaced every problematic GB PF

...and then shipped them out as replacement GB playfields to Europe where they thought a misspelling on an insert wouldn't matter or be caught. People posted their Ghostbusters playfields with insert or clear defects that were replaced by Stern with playfields with a different defect - the ones with the misspelling on the insert. Stern thought that was an okey-dokey solution to their problem of a bunch of playfields left in stock with an obvious misspelling and the customers that had issues with insert crazing or clear problems. Turns out, customers didn't like Stern's solution.

#4815 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

The crazy thing is most everyone who has had a chance to play this game is raving about how much fun it is

Interested to see what Karl at twitch/iepinball thinks when he plays it for the first time tonight. I just checked and he said he's putting the machine together now and should be streaming it tonight as planned with the real-time temp gauges on the stream, too. Don't know the time yet, but assuming somewhere around 7-8pm on twitch.

#4818 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Karl will surely blow this thing up 30 times over on his 2nd ball.

It'll be fun to see what Karl does the first time on Toy Story 4, and what his first impressions are when he's finished tonight. Plus, there's the bonus for me of live temps from a trap player over a long session (I am not a trap player). I'll definitely be watching, as I suspect many others will be also.

#4820 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Check out the topper I got today from mezelmods for $175. Unless Stern create’s something magical, this one is great. Godzilla was attacked by AngryBoi today. It was a draw and both sides sustained damage.

Get the cat some cat crack catnip and they'll leave your topper alone.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Is the JJP TS4 topper available in their store? I believe many LE buyers will be interested.

I don't think JJP sells their CE toppers to LE owners. PotC one was exclusive to the CE, for sure.

#4823 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

I'm looking forward to watching his Toy Story stream, I guess there is a big step between playing pinball and being a pinball player, I'm wowed like I've rarely been.

He's also a full-package streamer. He has godlike pin skills and excellent streaming tech so his streams LOOK perfect. But on top of that he's also great about talking through what he's doing in a clear way and holding court with the chat stream, all the while destroying whatever game he's playing. Certainly the top of the heap as far as streaming quality and content. Every one of his streams you seem to come away having learned something you didn't know about whatever game he's playing. And what other streamer has custom code the Stern dev put in the game that taunts the streamer when they restart a bad game? Karl does.

#4826 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Loved the catnip video. When did JJP announce the topper was exclusive? Didn’t catch that on the marketing material. I saw the topper is included on the CE but nothing more. If you go back to the POTC release, it stating exclusive to CE. What you hearing?

I haven't heard anything specific, just based on the prior JJPotC topper only being for CE users. But if JJP wants another lose-lose decision they can sell the topper to LE users for Toy Story 4. Certain to piss off CE owners.

#4835 1 year ago

Karl says he's shooting for the iepinball TS4 twitch stream to start at 8pm.

EDIT: He went live at 7:58.

karl_ts4_2022-06-20-sml (resized).jpgkarl_ts4_2022-06-20-sml (resized).jpg
#4838 1 year ago

At least one of the people complaining about "if it was only a STD @ $8500 I'd buy it" have an option now. Time to put up - someone saw your bluff and dropped it $1000 more.

#4856 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

DeAngelo beat game right after first warm up game, right flipper got weak on him. Zmeny saying all the dislike in chat is forced

He didn't beat the game. He finished the FIRST HALF and was partway through the second half of "Meet me at the Carousel" when he lost the ball. You have to finish both halves to actually beat the game.

#4859 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

A simpleton’s programming trick, just like racing games that have you do the first race on a track and then tell you there’s a different stage/2nd half, as you race same track again mirrored only backwards. TS4 employing same cheap tricks, but it sure saves on programming costs and fits right in with the low BOM ideals of the new JJP.

I'll save that judgment until I see if there's actually something to play that's different if you finish both sides.

Second time through and he's doing much better - playing the Buzz version of the Carousel with 3 balls left, so we may see the full end tonight.

#4861 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

An easy shooter built for kiddies, couldn’t imagine Karl a pro, won’t make it all the way through in one evening.

Well, he blew his 3 balls and is on his last, so maybe not tonight. It's a nail-biter now with 80% of the second part left to do and no balls left. Still, amazing play for literally his first time ever playing the game.

#4883 1 year ago
Quoted from reffob:

Damn this is painful to watch. I hope he can sort it out.

Sorted already. Turns out the right flipper didn't have a coil sleeve installed.

Not something he could do live, but once he could move stuff out of the way, he figured out the problem quickly.

#4886 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Well isn’t that a convenient highly suspect excuse for a huge problem JJP is well known for. If JJP didn’t have the known flipper issue history, we might buy into that nonsense…
….JJP history says BS to that.

Have you been drinking or something? What incentive would Karl have to lie about the solution to the problem from his live feed?

#4889 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinzzz:

Did he find what the problem was with the upper right flipper getting hung up after the stream?

I don't think he had done that yet. I'm sure he'll run down what he found on the next stream. With the machine fully working there shouldn't be anything keeping him from completing both sides of Meet me at the Carousel and actually completing the game. He almost got there with a gimpy right flipper.

#4890 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Never touch the stuff…but questioning the BS about the flippers. We all were able to see first hand what was happening. Quite trying to put Karl in the liar category, no one ever said anything of the kind. Let’s say one flipper sleeve was gone, what about the other two? All three had issues, so for a guy that says he doesn’t care about being on the JJP sales/promotion team, you my friend qualify as someone that cares like their stock holdings depend on it, lol.

The left flipper had no problems the whole stream. In fact after turning the power up, he actually turned the left back down because he said it was too strong. the highest temp recorded with the left flipper was only 135F. So no, all three flippers did not have problems. The left was fine.

And again, what possible motive would Karl have to lie about the fix for the right flipper after he ended the stream? That's a crazy accusation with no basis.

#4892 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Don’t buy your sales pitch Pinmonk, not for a second, as I watched the whole thing. If the left flipper had no problems, why couldn’t he make the ramp shots from the left flipper much of the time after playing a while??? Stop putting Karl in the liar conversation and stand on your own two feet. Karl’s not a liar. He called it like it is: “feels like I’m playing a routed machine”, that was referencing all the flipper TS4 problems, sheesh.

Don't turn this around on me. YOU said, "Well isn’t that a convenient highly suspect excuse for a huge problem JJP is well known for." As if Karl lied about the coil sleeve being the reason the flipper couldn't make a ramp at 166F. Even faded, that ramp should have been make-able. The fact that the coil sleeve being gone was the issue (as Karl discovered after the stream) explains what was seen perfectly.

YOU also said he had problems with all three flippers malfunctioning. Anyone that watched the whole stream sober knows that's completely untrue. He ONLY had issues with the lower and upper right flippers.

#4895 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

You’re the only one lying to yourself my friend. Take a few Zen deep breaths, relax and watch the stream again, you missed a great deal of it while your were texting in the chat box and looking for temp numbers so you can sell the heck out of your high priced fans.

This also makes NO SENSE. If I was trying to sell Tibetan Breeze kits, I'd be pushing the crap out of the temps of that stream. But I'm not even publishing them because there was a mechanical problem and the temps are not legitimately representative of that machine. I don't want to sell people kits for machines that don't need them. You're all over the place.

But yeah, I've had enough of whatever wacked out, crazy trip you're on. Welcome to the hall of infamy.

#5012 1 year ago

Karl has fixed his coil-sleeve-less right flipper and wired up all three flippers for real-time temps and will be streaming Toy Story 4 tonight starting at 7pm. He said there's one multiball he missed because he was unfamiliar with the rules, so he'll be going for that tonight as well as completely finishing the game (both Woody and Buzz playthroughs of Meet Me at the Carousel).

It'll be on his iepinball twitch channel, 7pm PDT, a little less than an hour from now:
https://www.twitch.tv/iepinball

#5062 1 year ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Lose the hot rails, powdercoating, shaker, and invisiglass. And boom, you've got an SE TS4.

That's like $200-250 off the BOM cost. Ain't gonna move the needle.

#5063 1 year ago
Quoted from Palmer:

SE would still be 11K without all that stuff. There is a reason why they didn't include an SE. Not enough to take out to make a large enough difference. Pretty sure everyone would be up in arms if they released an 11K SE. And no one would buy it because the disparity between it and an LE would be too small.

The GnR SE pretty much proved this. It's the rarest version because almost no one bought it.

#5070 1 year ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Listen guys, you make me chuckle if you think that the actual BOM cost of TS4 has anything to do with the MSRP that JJP is charging. JJP is charging 15k for the CE and 12k for LE, not because it costs them anywhere near that to make them, but because they think they can. JJP looked at the market and decided they could get away with those prices.
I don't think cutting the features I listed would actually reduce JJP's cost by much, but it would be a way for them to differentiate an SE model. The differences between the SE and LE on Dialed In, and on also on Wonka, was even more minimal than what I've suggested for a theoretical TS4 SE.
I'm also not suggesting that JJP actually make an SE model, but someone asked how it could be done, and so I put forth an idea.

SE stripped from the already light LE is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is the $12k price coupled with a perceived lack of mechanical features. That ship has sailed already, so really nothing for them to do but suck it up and grind some TS4 out and hope code can turn things around until the next JJP release.

#5071 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Yet those kinds of differences have generally been the norm for JJP tiers.. until we got GNR and Wonka.
Drop the Powder, drop the shaker, drop invisiglass.. this is how they've always done it.

Right, but that was only the first time JJP did this by taking $1K off the retail off DI LE to make the SE, which you could do with leaving off powder, shaker, invisiglass. As the LE prices increased, more stuff had to be cut, which is why starting with jjPotC, and continuing with Wonka and GnR playfield stuff was removed (more in line with how Stern does it from Prem/LE down to Pro) to make SE versions, and those stripped games were a lot less desirable, so almost no one bought them. Taking $1k off Toy Story 4 isn't going to do anything positive for sales. The SE would have to be like $2.5k less to get it under $10k and then enough would have been cut that no one would want it. Lose-lose.

#5075 1 year ago
Quoted from Palmer:

Pretty sure POTC SE was also 1K cheaper than LE (8500 vs 9500). Ah, but they also changed the GI to all white in the SE model so probably not comparable.

Ah, right. PotC. Forgot about that one. They also took out some of the PF decoration like the rock on the left, left out the topper, no starfield (no loss at all). Also an unpopular SE.

#5081 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

Just as much as the transparents defending purchases. Heaven vs Hell yo.

I don't think we need to open up a trans front on the battle.

#5092 1 year ago
Quoted from zermeno68:

My impatience got the best of me
Already put my deposit for a CE. Guess I’ll be the one to take the NIB hit.

Wait, so you broke down and got an LE to play while waiting for your CE in the fall?

#5109 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

And compared to what most of us have lost in the stock market this year, losing $3k seems like a bargain. At least you get some enjoyment out of it.

stock-buy-the-dip (resized).jpgstock-buy-the-dip (resized).jpg
#5152 1 year ago
Quoted from wackenhut:

Wait, so the LE does not include side art blades? Seriously?
Also, I think we all can agree that we would play this game on location. Looks fun for some pocket change. Now, how do we convince operators to buy the game knowing that the machine is going to have a lot of downtime?

Any operator already running JJP games knows what's necessary to keep them running. It's not like Toy Story 4 will be some whole new level of additional maintenance. According to a bunch of people here, there's nothing in it, so that's LESS maintenance. Win-win.

#5155 1 year ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

Which has more “value”? This seems like a good thread to ask that question
[quoted image]

My takeaway is you need a decent quality surge protector for those machines. That power strip is not up to the job.

#5189 1 year ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

We played the TS4 at Pintastic today. I counted 56 sling to sling bounces in a row. 56! Back and forth between the slings 56 times. Is this an as-designed feature of the gameplay? I hit the Duke Caboom ramp looped 7 times in a row, that was cool!

20v sling coils are one of the most common complaints about jjp machines.

#5233 1 year ago
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:

I think one more is coming soon, my Scorbit is wonky.

Yeah, Karl DeAngelo said another is coming soon that will fix the Scorbit issues.

#5267 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Interesting. Even if it fit perfectly, I can't imagine removing AND reinstalling eight bolts with a can opener. For the price they could include a socket wrench.

Exactly, and why a CLOSED END wrench? At least make it open ended. I mean I include wrenches or ball end hex keys (depending) with $130 kits if they're needed for assembly so people don't have to buy one if they don't have one. On a $12,000 machine, they could include a $1 ratcheting wrench if they want to include needed assembly tools (an endeavor I support).

#5283 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

And don't do it on a road trip unless you want to add an extra 3 hours stop at the charging station.

15-20 minutes at a supercharger will give you about half range (~200 miles). No need to wait 3 hours with a Tesla to chub up a limp battery.

#5298 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

Remember this was when you could get a SM or Tspp for $45-4700 used.

I was getting Spiderman NIB for $3300 back then. Those were the days.

#5327 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

If JJP would do the same, they could have cut off the GNR run when demand started waning and switched to a small run of 500 WoZs and/or 500 PotC.

They could have sold 1000 or more PotC LE at $12k.

#5328 1 year ago
Quoted from Wariodolby:

Did Pat Lawlor officially retire?
Everyone seems to be saying it,but I don’t see any official announcement?
Would love to read the story if there is a link to the announcement?

We should be so lucky. I think the idea is he's not designing anymore after TS4. He's still supposed to be around screwing up JJP production on other machines with his bad ideas as a kind of production managing director (I don't know what his official title would be/is). "Let's put the volume control at people's knees", "Widebodies are a mistake", "Pinball machines don't need manuals", he's got a million of 'em, and he's bad for JJP. Every good idea of his (like putting electronics back in the backbox) has three bad ones to offset it. Give him a watch and a pat on the back and let him go. It'd be more than JJP did for Butch and he was way more important to JJP, IMO. At least he wasn't actually screwing the company up.

#5333 1 year ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

end users can print there own and we save the cost of that.

Um, what good is that when the manuals don't even have mech designs like the FLIPPERS in them? No illustrations, no part numbers, nothing. That's TS4. Toy Story 4's manual is another step down from GnR, and WAY down from the manuals Butch did, which were best in class. When you understand that the person directing what is and isn't important in JJP production doesn't even VALUE pinball manuals, Butch's firing and the terrible Toy Story 4 manual with what look like DOS screen prints on some pages start to make sense.

And, for the record, even if they DID print them, an oversized service dept-style full printed glossy manual is like $3 in quantity. Don't pretend that savings makes a difference in what you pay.

#5337 1 year ago
Quoted from DruTheFu:

I’m still waiting on my R&M manual….

Spooky is much newer and smaller than JJP, and they have a lot of fires to put out with their Halloween/Ultraman disaster, so I get it. But they DO need a dedicated, experienced manual person. They're big enough now that there's no excuse for the pamphlet they have. It's not rocket science to hire a person to do a good manual. Just has to be a priority.

In JJP's case, it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't had EXQUISITE manuals with great parts and assembly diagrams when Butch was doing them. But they did. And then they fired Butch, because they don't value pinball manuals now. And the fall from grace comparing Butch's manuals to whatever operation they've farmed it out to now is DIRE. I mean, who omits the MAIN FLIPPER ASSEMBLIES from the parts section?

#5349 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

By disaster, you mean selling out of the entire run in a couple of hours?? JJP wishes they could have more of those "disasters".

Disaster for Spooky going forward. They burned their base HARD. That sellout was because people TRUSTED Spooky due to accumulated goodwill, and that loss is not easy to charge up again. That trust was OBLITERATED with Halloween/Ultraman. Look at the marketplace. People selling a top of the line Ultraman for $6700. That's DUMPING. If Spooky is really are doing a double release AGAIN, they learned nothing and it will be very interesting soon.

#5350 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Totally. Maybe you can take over with some innovative fan kits from China or some 3d printed insert color wheels!
Lawler doesn't choose themes or code rules, the two areas that ruin jjp games. There is direct evidence of Jack ruining dialed in's original ideas.

Sure, let's go all the way back in time to Dialed In and find an alleged Jack problem. Pat's had plenty of bad ideas since then and even said some of them publicly. He has had a legendary career, but is way past his expiration date. Let's give him a banger of a sendoff for the ages that he deserves - I'll even chip in if that's the price of getting him out of JJP.

Full Disclosure: I bought TS4. I've owned all JJP. I want them to succeed. This is realtalk.

#5352 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

unfortunately it's been such a recurring problem with all the manufacturers.. even found some garbage in the 90s wpc stuff like omitting major assemblies like ramps. Stern was decent in the 2000s, then went to garbage (Metallica era)... now we get 'manual lite' where at least wiring connection points are covered.
I mean, would it kill them to have someone in the field review what they have, or at least revise them after release based on need/feedback.

I think it comes down to "don't care." And I can see omitting an assembly (trunk in Elvira) by mistake or a ramp or something, but to leave out THE FLIPPER ASSEMBLIES? I mean, c'mon. That's just incompetence. And that TS4 manual reeks of it.

#5353 1 year ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

People expected the same star team behind the scenes as Rick and Morty had. We knew the layout was Bug and Luke's, but we didn't realize that none of the programming, rules, or display team was involved. No Bowen, no nothing.

Hubris and deception. The Spooky customers did not deserve what they got.

Quoted from DakotaMike:

And it wasn't just flippers that got screwed, it was anyone who normally only keeps their pins for a few months. I know I'm never buying a Spooky game ahead of time. I'll buy one for market rate, when I can have it immediately. None of this pay a 2k deposit and watch prices crash for a year crap.

Yep. Like I said, they burned their base. Their WHOLE base at once, and the embers are still hot. That trust is obliterated for the most part, and Spooky had a LOT of it. If they really are doing another double release next, it will be extremely interesting, even if one of them is Scooby Doo. SD with a homebrew layout that doesn't shoot well is not something anyone is asking for.

#5355 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

They made mistakes and need to correct them but not the disaster you are claiming yet. Plenty of people got their games and are enjoying them with code still being worked on with new animators/coders hired. I'll believe the future double release rumor when I see it, they would have to mega staff up to make it work.

Why? They're destroying a current double with a spartan staff now. Sounds like they're ready to jump ship to a more popular title set and try a double AGAIN. And I'll believe the new animations/coders quality level when I see it. The fact that they released the game with the atrocious graphics they did seriously calls into question their judgment. Animation is not cheap and the game needs basically all of it redone. I can't see them spending the money.

#5361 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

I know you've been around long enough to remember ACNC and TNA runs - those didn't sell out until late into the runs. That's the way it should be as it gives people time to see and play the games before purchasing. Everyone that purchased an ACNC or TNA actually wanted to own the game. Unlike this flipping BS that's been a cancer to our hobby the last few years.

ACNC and TNA were not super-hot licensed properties. They would have sold out Rick and Morty with twice their units if they didn't cut it off way too low.

#5366 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

They didn't "cut it off" per se - they simply made as many as they were comfortable making at the time. They've attempted to grow slowly and increase the number of games with each release.
AMH - 150
RZ - 300
ACNC - 500
R&M - 750
HWN/UM - 1750
TNA was 550 and around the same time as ACNC/R&M but was a contract build.

The point is, you can't compare TNA and ACNC relatively relaxed sellouts to the hyperactive Rick and Morty insta-sellout because R&M was a calding hot license with way too few made. Stern would have made 3000-4000 of them, no problem, probably 1000 LEs and sold every one of them. 750 was just way too few, so the goodwill accumulated plus a super-hot license added up to a record sellout, and it wasn't mostly flippers. Way less flippers than H/U. Spooky tried that again and took away the experienced designer, graphics, sound and code people and did a double release reskin for good measure and destroyed all that goodwill with H/U.

#5375 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I think a lot of flippers bought UM/HW without even checking who was on the new team.

Easier said than done. The extent of the change of team from R&M to H/U was obfuscated, IMO. It only became clear how bad it was well after the point people were expected to plunk down a deposit.

#5388 1 year ago
Quoted from koji:

I always go Mantis unless you have some larger damage to cover up.

Mantis won't help on the face of the Dialed In playfield, which is where the playfield chips at the SIM hole. Mine was chipped in two large places within 50 plays. Maybe later run PFs were less chip-prone, but the initial run had atrociously thick and brittle clear.

#5389 1 year ago
Quoted from koji:

They could have... but IIRC it was a bit of a bomb at first.. seems you never really know how a pin is going to be truly received until a year or more after release.

It was clear PotC was a hot property about 4 months after release once people actually were able to PLAY it in person and realize they made a huge mistake by cancelling their order over two wheels and a trunk lid. Supply dried up FAST once that happened.

#5393 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

100% true and exactly my experience. I pulled my preorder over trunk/discgate, and when I finally played one on location I was like....
[quoted image]

Unfortunately the overlap between when people started reversing course and buying one and Jack cancelling production after months of brutal punishment for disc/trunkgate online had about a month gap. By the time people course corrected, production had been canned for a month or so and the ship wasn't turning around. They could easily sell another 1,000 $12k, probably even more if the code is ever finished and launched with the new ones.

#5418 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

No doubt. Still surprised at how many arcades/barcades/etc. seem to be buying it (based on many posts that are coming across my FB).

It's a very attractive-looking pin. Streams don't really do how good it looks in person justice. I can see it doing well on location just because the theme and attract mode will draw casuals and non-pin players to it.

#5421 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Makes sense, just seems risky given the high price of entry...that's all. If it's a highly trafficked pay-per-use, I can see it. For many free play arcades, it would be tougher to justify.

I can see the argument for both types. For free play it could definitely be a magnet item to draw people to the location, but for paid locations, if I were putting it out, it would definitely be a $1.50 or 4/$5 vend, minimum. The game has long ball times, so probably would not offer 4 balls/game like I did for $1.50 jjPotC pre-pandemic to take some of the sting out of the higher price.

#5453 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

Too you it's hate and to others it's honesty, a really good fun shooter can be said about plenty of other games for half the price.

But if price isn't an overbearing criteria, it's fine. I mean pinflation sucks, but not everyone has to be worried about price. They have the means to just get what they like. there's plenty for average players to like in TS4 (though it DOES need some mini modes added [NOT more carnival games] to break things up, much like Dialed In had the cell phone mode wall broken up after much-needed code revisions).

I'd really like to see some fun modes based on goings-on in the antique shop added. Would be a nice break from carnival fatigue.

#5474 1 year ago

Adjust the left sling so it registers and kicks like it's supposed to, and then if it's not enough, turn the sling power up.

Main problem is a lack of system check to make sure everything's working and in spec before playing it. I had to do a lot of little adjustments on mine out of the box. My slings were the opposite - machine gunning. The game tweaks were nothing major (kickout saucer strength, spinner, etc), just a lot of small stuff in a more than usual quantity.

#5480 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

And this would be extremely easy to fix in a code update. After 10 consecutive alternating sling activations, alter left sling power up or down for 5 seconds.

Given the tiny number of instances of this problem where it goes uncorrected (and adjusting the sling switch so it WORKS is the solution) this is a waste of programming and testing effort. Probably why it's never been done by anyone at any manufacturer to my knowledge.

#5483 1 year ago
Quoted from Damonator:

And in 25 years of being in the hobby I've never seen a game go into an infinite sling loop.

Which is why it's never been addressed the way you suggested. They don't code for single instances in 25 years.

Fixing the sling switch is the answer, whether it's the owner, their pin guy, their distributor or pinside that gets it fixed and working properly.

I WILL say that JJP is shipping these TS4 machines with the power too low on the slings by default, IMO. Turning them up as a factory default would be good.

#5577 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

After 2 weeks in the company office the game is still down more often than it is up due to stuck balls.

Something's wrong. We haven't had a single stuck ball.

#5579 1 year ago
Quoted from manadams:

Could be that more newbies are playing it and their wilder shots are causing it.

Unless it's airballs that are getting physically launched, no. There's something that needs to be adjusted that's physically wrong or pitch/level is wrong.

#5593 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

That’s what the giant screen on the backbox is for... The iPad location should’ve been a mech.

Looking all the way up to the backbox monitor is less convenient than looking where you're already directed on the PF. SEE: Cirqus Voltaire, Dialed In, Hobbit, GnR, etc

#5603 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

yeah, the tablet does a much better job of feeding you info on what to hit and I like having that info as I rarely look up at the backbox when playing. However, it really should have been built into the backboard or a smaller monitor like hobbit/GnR and the tablet area could have been something more special. That’s just it with this game, it’s really fun to shoot and I like it a lot, but it just could have been so much more.

The weird lean-back, then rotated placement of the monitor is the problem IMO. It's just awkward. Straight on in the backbox like GnR would have been better, and forget the laggy tiki video pinball.

#5606 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Totally agree....the tablet was a massive cost savings event for JJP. If that tablet wasn't there they would have had to add a mini play field or cool mech which costs money versus the $30 tablet (I'm guessing) they probably get on the cheap from China. As many have said this is probably the lowest BOM by a large margin than any other JJP pin yet its by far their most expensive. This was all about a massive money grab that in my opinion will back fire unless they get back to actually putting cool stuff into their games.

The screen and controller in TS4 is about $10 in quantity. I checked. It's a pretty low res TN panel. Add $3-5 for the frame, frame LEDs and clear plastic protective shield. About half what you estimated.

#5607 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

The part where callouts and lights have been enough for most people to understand where to shoot the ball on tons and tons of dmd pins. I didn’t know that people now need it literally spelled out for them on a dedicated screen taking up actual playfield real estate.

You overestimate casual's skill set and understanding of pinball goals, especially on location. A lot of the ones I've seen when I helped with a route don't know where the flipper buttons are or how to start a game, so a screen telling them what to shoot for is welcome.

JJP is attempting to make games for everyone, not just pinball nerds.

#5610 1 year ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Well there u go .... TS4 BOM has to be at historic lows for JJP

I didn't say that. I was only talking about the playfield screen. If you've moved the machine or lifted the playfield, it's got a hefty BOM. The PF feels as heavy as every JJP with all the crap on it.

#5614 1 year ago
Quoted from Billygrippo:

I hope your not being”pc” on pinside cause you sell shit here….. your comment was fine. If someone gets hurt in the feelers, then that’s a personal problem.

I corrected essentially a wrong summation/restatement of what I posted. Because the conclusion was wrong. And I'd do that again.

If you have a TS4 (as I do currently, while I run tests on it - yes, I paid full price with my own dough), you know it's a heavy machine. Some people may not be happy with WHAT the BOM is, but to say it has a small BOM is flat out wrong, and I will call that out all day long. The coil count alone is BIG. And if I was trying to shill for JJP or play milquetoast, pablum-pushing pinmonk so as not to offend, why would I go to the trouble of looking up the quantity pricing on Alibaba for the screen and disclose how cheap that is in quantity? You need to really re-think your thought process or work harder on comprehension. You're arriving at very wrong conclusions, despite obvious facts laid before you.

Plenty to be upset about in my posting history for any particular fan or another if they like a machine I don't. Fortunately, I'm pretty helpful and generally nice otherwise and that seems to balance it out. I just don't have much of a filter. And may I remind you that I was one of the few that was telling people very unsubtly way before release that this was going to be TS4 and to kiss their TS1-3 dreams goodbye. That wasn't nice of me, but it could have eased people down from Mt. Expectations if they had only bought the ticket.

If you want to talk about the problems with the TS4 software, that's another matter entirely. I feel like it's very similar to Dialed In when it first came out when that slog through the cell phone mode wall was super boring after a while. It took a while, but they eventually added some other modes that broke up the progression a bit. I think that's what TS4 is sorely lacking - side/extra modes and a TRULY different ending mode for playing through twice. It needs some other non-carnival modes (plenty of options in the Antique Store) to break things up. I also think it's lame they hired a d-list mobile game company to do the sound. Mistake. Hopefully they're back in with Thiel now.

#5622 1 year ago
Quoted from smokinhos:

I struggle to understand the concept of "attempting to make games for everyone" with a $12k pinball game that is obviously not going to end up in a casual players home and the ROI is longer compared to so many popular, much cheaper sterns that hold up better in routed environments.

Your mistake is assuming everyone is like you.

$1.50 vend (or 4/$5) and this pin is fine. We did that pricing with jjPotC 3 years ago and gave players 4 balls/game and it was the #1 machine on the route the whole time it was out. TS4 looks great in attract mode and will be very attractive to location casuals, so it will likely do very well. The locations I've heard that have it out are happy with it.

#5623 1 year ago
Quoted from arcadem:

Honest question, naysayers need not apply. I am getting a high pitch, low volume sound from my game particularly during boot up but also periodically present during game play. Any one else experiencing this? Without inviting dumb humor about how much the game costs and it must be money crying, any ideas as to its source?

RF or ground loop issue. Does yours have a ground loop isolator installed? Are you using a grounded 3 prong outlet with the ground hooked up (sometimes the ground pin is just for show and not hooked up inside the box).

#5641 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Meanwhile.. Scorbit is telling me ToyStory is earning great this week.

Same thing I've heard from OPs that have it out.

#5646 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I don't think there is any way JJP will build/sell 6k TS4's @ 12/15k

That's two years of non-stop Toy Story 4 on the line @JJP's build rate. I don't think JJP was seriously shooting for that. No way TS4 is bigger than GnR, with or without the pricing, plus Steve has said his game is out next year.

#5650 1 year ago
Quoted from Noma2017:

GNR has sold around 4,000 units. 500 CE at $12,500 each, about 200 SE at $7k? Leaving 3,300 LE at avg of $10,500 (since there was a price increase)? That’s about $42M.
On day one of TS4, they sold $30M between CE and LE. I wouldn’t be surprised if they could sell another $12M worth or 1,000 more LE machines.

Or to put it another way, if GnR was $42 million over 2 years on the line, that's $21 million/year. Compared to $30 million TS4 for what will be less than one year on the line with currently booked sales. Strictly in a financial sense, that would mean TS4 was a huge success, bigger than GnR, on a year/year basis.

#5655 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

And that’s another factor into operating costs. Downtime. As days turn to weeks turn to (gasp) months, that’s zero revenue and continued theme/value depreciation. At that point 12k cost-value becomes a gaping chasm. Better up those plays to $3-$4 per play after nodes get replaced. Yikes.

Why are we talking about node board down time in a JJP TS4 thread? JJP uses a driver board in the backbox that's VERY reliable. No node problems there. The only JJP we ever had down for more than a day was WoZ with 1.x lighting issues. All the rest have been rock solid on route as long as they're maintained.

#5669 1 year ago
Quoted from Noma2017:

You should actually listen to the podcast. He explains how they arrived at TS4. A lot of info I haven’t seen here

Summarize for people with a very low tolerance for podcasts.

Please.

#5705 1 year ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

Some of the Dialed In CPU boards failed in use. Don't have a number on that, though two of them were down here in town including my own for nearly a month waiting for the replacement board. JJP came through in the end.

I wouldn't have waited. The PC side is commodity parts. I would have just ordered a new PC motherboard (doesn't even have to be the same model, just the same chipset) and been back in business in a couple days for $100. ESPECIALLY if I had it out on a route. A month wouldn't cut it.

#5712 1 year ago
Quoted from underlord:

AHA! So…
My incoherent blathering WAS relevant.

A PC motherboard isn't a node board. And if those fail, that's a conversation to have with ASUS or ASROCK or MSI or whoever made the PC motherboard. JJP just buys them off the shelf.

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