I have washers in my new GnR and I am fine with it. I think we need to move on from playfield gate....especially for new machines. It may not be optimal, but it is a work around that seems to be holding up. I haven't seen any pix of this still being an issue with new playfields. It stinks for the people that got em early though and I get that.

I think this title could be a lot of fun.

Can you point to pictures of this? Just curious how you know this is the case. In my mind the jury is still out on this. I was at the factory and had an extensive conversation about this. Personally I am happy with how they have addressed the situation. I know it isn't ideal, but I really think that the latest builds have not had the same issue. Again, need examples to be swayed.

I currently own a WoZ that is in pristine condition and am thinking about selling it for a TS. I get that it won't be an even trade, but I could see the TS theme being a lot of fun. For me those movies were at a perfect time when my kids were growing up. Very funny and well written. Hopefully translates into a pin well. In the back of my head, I am still hoping that JJP can get the HP title.....and I know, unlikely, but I still can hope right?

With all of these predictions, there is some significant headwind......the looming recession. This will change people's pocketbooks. The vast majority of CE buyers are boomers. They are all licking their wounds from a beat up 401K. One would want to hope that the worst of the correction is behind us. I for one don't think the blood bath is over. China's lockdown and the war in Ukraine look like they will both go on for some time. This is going to take its toll on the global supply chain. Gas will continue to be high and inflation will follow suit.

Now think about plopping down 15K/12K for a pinball in the middle of this. If I was Jack I would announce this sooner than later. Just my humble opinion though

If anyone knows a distributor that has any TS CE's, please PM me. Would really like one for TS. Wife is very much a TS lover, simple as that. Or any other way to get it. I guess I can try to get online direct, but I never seem to have luck with that method for anything I try to get. Usually get some spinning icon and the website never comes back (whatever it is).

Dave

If that is what people are doing, sad. No other words. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. Greed is what gets everyone in trouble. It is one of the worst character flaws of humans. No other way to put it.

IMO JJP probably is taking one shot at the Toy Story theme. With this in mind, I see it being assets from all of the movies. The fact that they are launching right at the same time as the new movie tells me some of those assets will be in this release as well. I don't have any specific knowledge of this, but would seem the most logical given the timing and circumstances. I also believe they have been working on this for some time now and that would lend itself to historical content of Toy Story as well? We will find out in the coming days/weeks

I just want army men

If I was Jack, I would launch this thing this second. Based on the stock market, people may not have cash tomorrow

I have to admit, first impressions are not good. I find it very simple looking and not a fan of the large LCD screen (bigger is not always better). At the end of the day, when you are paying this kind of money, innovation should be front and center. At this point I am simply not seeing it. No order for me until I get to play the game. I was also looking for Toy Story 1-3 assets as well. I am out (for now).

As for comments about JJP 2.0 and lack of innovation, I really do think GnR was able to pull it off. There was something else in play here. Budget constraints? Really trying to shift the target market? I know timeless/home sales have always been Jack's thing. Maybe his voice is really gone?

Maybe the software side of TS4 will blow me away?

Sigh...

That thinking works if you have sales volume. Time will tell, but my gut tells me JJP cut back too much and it will show up in the units sold, thus losing in the aggregate. I think they went too far on the cost cutting with this machine.

Again, have to play it now to be convinced otherwise. I am not 100% out, but will not be purchasing based on what I have seen so far.

I feel like I owe the designers and JJP an apology. Why? Well I had expectations that were maybe not practical AND JJP probably can't say anything about it. This is what happens when you work with a company like Disney. They are control freaks. So maybe we need to back off the TS4 vs. TS1-3 bashing just a bit? Because the only other option would have been to walk away from the deal entirely and they would not have been able to say why w/o Disney going after them. If they cancelled the pin, we would have flamed JJP up and down right?

Now as for the lack of toys/mechs on the machine? There I personally think they could have made some different choices? I would gladly of swapped out the LCD for a true upper playfield or maybe claw like mech that was in JunkYard or something? That to me is the biggest miss.

With that said, I have watched the video and am more curious about the game now. Will I order right now? Nope, but I will seek out the game and play it a bunch and maybe it will grow on me.

I do think a lot of us had some strong reactions and some of them were over the top. We need to remember there are people that worked years on this game and judging without playing is probably not fair.

This is just my 2 cents...

Let's have fun and play some pinball?

Dave

So I am getting conflicting information if CE's have sold out. Did they? Or just JJP and the distributors are still unknown?

A unique mech is innovation, an LCD screen is visual pinball at best, but a hell of a lot smaller. Furthermore the idea could have been implemented taking up a ton less space. By placing it the way they did, they in fact cut out 20% of the workload. The LCD screen is the one "feature" that really sticks out as a miss to me. Does it kill the whole pin? No. Does it lower the innovation score, absolutely. The LCD was a cheap and safe route.....symptom of the times we are in when VC is in play. Mechs require $ and risk.

CE's have lost value already?

Guessing this is for an LE (typo)...

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/137273

Unless I am missing something, I did read the ad. Shows 12K in the price right? CE's go for 15K. Again, maybe I am missing something obvious though.

If somehow Pinside AI was here. The best feature it could have would be to suppress bantering back and forth between individuals in what is clearly a mean spirited conversation. It would save the rest of us hours of our life so we don't have to page through this BS. What I am looking for in this thread is constructive feedback on TS4 and more curious about gameplay as it is now out in the wild. I love JJP pins and really like Pat's designs. The more I read, I think a lot of people may have been a little harsh out of the gate. With that said, this is why constructive feedback is really needed. This stuff is really expensive and real information is very helpful for those on the fence.

The direct digs at people on here are amazing. I really do wonder what people's motives are when they post so much hate? Is it that important to them to bash a given manufacturer because they own a competing brand? Really? It also astounds me how brave people can be behind a keyboard.

I will send anyone that wants a chill pill for free

Let's maybe try to be a tad kinder to one another? This is a hobby and frankly it is supposed to be recreation, right?

Peace

Dave

I have decided against TS4 for now and for mainly the reasons you have talked about above. Your tone/feedback is the kind of feedback I am looking for. To be clear, I loved what JJP has done leading up to this launch. With that said, I do plan on trying it on location and maybe I will feel differently.....but not counting on it.