Looks like JJP is playfield shopping at Ikea.
(Topic ID: 290919)
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Toy Story 4 (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2022-
Toy Story 4 (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2022
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2 months later
Quoted from KornFreak28:JJP can’t raise prices too much either or they’ll risk slow sales I think. Flipping will always be part of the hobby and only works with a few that missed out on the game or have plenty of money to splurge on a used CE game they really want.
They can raise prices on CE *WAY* higher as long as they sell out within a few days.
How does JJP profit from $25k CE resales? They left $10k on the table. $10k that some connected guy/gal pocketed who “got on a list” early. It’s financially dumb to let a random pinvestor make money that JJP could have made.
Just make 100 super limited CEs with three additional $25 toys and sell them for $35000. That’s how you create hype and profit from it.
Quoted from Wariodolby:[quoted image]
Omigosh shreeeeeek marrrrrrrrrrry meeeeee pleeeeeeeeeese !!!!!!!
63A14E8A-9B33-4F8D-94C5-07BB1A82D8A3 (resized).jpegIt looks like an interesting pinball machine with JJP’s trademark LED extravaganza. Fun and *colorful*.
I’m looking forward to playing it.
Quoted from jokerpoker:Not to mention how strict Disney would be with all their compliance requests. I remember talking to Gary at Pinfest and he said Disney were the hardest to satisfy licence wise of all the licenced themes he had ever done……. He was also drinking heavily
How did the Gabby “bash toy” ever made it past Disney compliance?!
JJP: “And here is a pop up doll, Gabby, that awards you x points for bashing her right in the kisser with a steel ball. Our target market, 50 year old middle class US men who fall all over themselves dropping $15k sight unseen love that”.
Disney compliance: “Sure. Great! Go ahead!!!”
Well that’s what happens if the last few loaded pins have disappointing sales and then the market turned into a sight unseen buying frenzy where a new machine sells, regardless of design.
Why would JJP bother with a world under glass like POTC, if it’s super expensive to make, doesn’t sell while y’all shower them with $$$ if they just put in a couple hundred LEDs, a pop up doll, a rotating disc and a pop up ramp!
I think it’s a fun looking average pinball machine. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s not anything special.
But I totally understand JJP. Once the customer base is irrationally buying anything, why bother with excellence?
Quoted from PinMonk:The crazy part is those are about $2/set (plush shipping) in the kind of quantities JJP would order.
Bbbbbbut the supply chain!!! What if the container with cake toppers from China won’t make it over the Pacific in time!!!!! That’s a business opportunity. Buy a few thousand and then blackmail JJP if the shit hits the fan.
Quoted from Damonator:All of your examples are top 20 games that have 1/2 (or less) as many LEs made (except GZ which is *the* #1 game).
Toy Story CE is 2x as many games made and will probably settle outside the top 20.
It honestly looks like a fun game - I think the major gripe is that it costs $4.5k more than a GZLE did at launch...and all you get for that is a shooter rod and topper. Jack's original vision of "putting as much as possible" into a pinball is dead and that makes a lot of us sad.
Other new pinball machines are just way too cheap, if it’s possible to flip them for profit.
If people pay $12k for a GZ Premium because Stern can’t build them fast enough (!), then it’s simply dumb for JJP (or Stern their GZ) to sell their TS4 for less and you get a mediocre (but solid) TS4 for $12k.
If these barren JJP TS4 somehow sell for $17k (LE) and $20k+ (CE) on pinside, the next mediocre JJP pinball machine will start at $17k. That’s where the market apparently is.
Quoted from flynnibus:The stupidity of a few does not set the price tolerance of the many
So JJP didn’t sell out of 1000 $15k CE machines today?!
Quoted from manadams:Most were allotted to distributors so unless you can claim all distributors sold their allotments already it's a false statement.
So, can I buy one MSRP then?
If not, it’s sold out.
That it’s available for scalper prices doesn’t count because if it would, then JJP POTC isn’t sold out either.
Quoted from smokinhos:Allotted vs sold out.. very distinct difference. Unavailable for sale from JJP. Check distributors.
Is this based on actual data or wishful thinking?
Because the data that I have (online stores) contradicts your statement.
Of course, you can say “call around” but that’s not data, just speculation that there may be distributors who don’t list them on their website for MSRP and somehow will sell them for MSRP if you call them.
Quoted from explosiveegg:I'm not making a statement on who is using the BOM of materials better. I just think it's silly to act like TS LE cost the same to make as Godzilla Premium.
The building is mech is a stepper motor with rails. If you look at 3D printers on amazon, you can get one for around $80, which has two sets of these motors with rails. Is the gate at the top of the building motorized? I thought it just caught something on it's way down.
I'm guessing it cost Stern around $40 for that mech. The motor for MechaGodzilla is probably even cheaper, let's say it cost them $20 dollars for that. Estimating around $60.
In terms of additional motors on TS LE, you have the Spinning Wheel Mechanism, which I would expect cost them around $20, and the shaker motor. Which I would expect costs them around $40. Estimating around $60. The cost of motors between these two games has to be really close.
This is probably the one mech where both games probably equal out in cost.
Does Godzilla use that estimated $60 in motor cost for a better effect, certainly! That is not the argument I'm making though.
When you start including things like the coil cost, the cost of the tablet, the cost to powder coat, the cost of the bigger screen, the invisi-glass, the sound system, the cost of over 300 rgb leds and hot rails. It's clear to me that Toy Story has to cost more to make.
Do you think otherwise?
I think you underestimate the cost of a building mech like Godzilla. The volumes aren’t there to make this cheap to custom manufacture. The volumes are terrible. Too low for some Chinese factory to crank them out for a few bucks and too high to have them done by shops in the USA.
We have the same “problem” with some of the products where I work and I’m often blown away how expensive things can be.
That’s also why TS4 has generic cake topper figurines that you can buy from Aliexpress.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Lol that intro to Carl Hardy’s Toy Story video, perfect reaction with the Jim Carey clip.
It’s a good example of building credibility. I like that he isn’t big enough to become buddy-buddy with the manufacturers and a shill.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:https://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/distributors/
start calling....
I prefer FAX. Do you have a list of distributors FAX numbers?
Quoted from kool1:Wasn't the GNR SE $8000?
$12,000 + shipping price of admission is a lot of money - too much for the majority of people.
I don’t understand why you think that, given that every NIB pinball machine that isn’t from Spooky sells like toilet paper circa 2020.
This is such a small niche market and it’s apparently easy finding a couple thousand customers in a world of billions of people who have no problem blowing $15k, $20k etc. on a pinball machine.
Edit: Yeah, the majority of the population won’t blow that money but the pinball target market will.
Quoted from kool1:I didn't say they wouldn't sell. I just mean a lot of people are complaining because they have been shut out price wise from Toy Story because of the high entry level price point.
I think so too. My personal limit for a fantastic pinball machine is $12k (Stern market research: You are welcome!). Anything above this and nope.
I comment on this thread because I find it fascinating.
For me, TS is not a dream theme and I personally can’t stand pop up obstacles and spinning discs so I would never buy a JJP TS4. They are catering to a demographic that is just above me, wealth wise. While I can spend a lot more than $12k, I won’t because there are many other uses of my money but more power to JJP if they can sell to people who think it’s worth it.
Quoted from Goronic:Maybe that's why there is no standard version on this title. What is left to remove.
I guess you could take away another voice actor callout or two?
They can remove the pointless tablet and the powder coating.
The problem with this is that it saves them maybe $40 so if they’d sell it for $9999 their margin shrinks by almost $2k.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Agreed. Inflation is an excuse to charge way more and to be greedy. Funny how many companies are showing record profits even though the cost to do business is supposedly higher.
Haha if companies were honest, they’d blame inflation on us idiotic consumers who are showering them with money. *We* are the root cause of inflation. Because we as a society currently have a shitload of money to blow on anything and everything. You can’t even buy a PS5 two years after release even though Sony pumps out millions of them. Or check interstates. Jammed full of cars, regardless of $5/gal gas.
And TS4CE “sells out” in a few minutes.
Don’t blame the greedy companies. Look in the mirror.
Quoted from iceman44:Over the last 18 months you think Gas, housing, food, lumber, other commodities etc have only risen 8.6%?
That measures the “rate of change”.
Put your house in zillow and check your zestimate. Think it only went up 8.6% over that period of time?
That’s how inflation works
I understand where you are coming from and why you don’t get it though.
Successful companies, with fortress balance sheets, free cash flow have pricing power to pass along the increases. Many don’t. Crypto companies are failing and laying off people right and left. Coinbase example. Netflix. Tesla. On and on
About to find out whether or not JJP has “pricing power”
Lumber is down quite a bit from January 2021 and a *LOT* from May 2021 (it went from $1480 to $560 per 1000 board feet today).
And housing will crash hard because mortgages are getting a lot more expensive as I type.
So these aren’t driving inflation right now.
The kolaches in West, TX are also still only $1/piece and ALDI totally sabotages inflation with $1 Kinder Buenos. Those were $3.99 not long ago at World Market.
Quoted from iceman44:Bean and cheese tacos went from .99c to $1.49!
You are getting ripped off!!!!!!
Quoted from pinghetto:I agree with the kids. I was going more with locations that serve alcohol but also allow kids during the day. But, the barcades are all about nostalgia for adults. Casual players put money in these machines strictly because of a theme that they connect with. I see it every day. Star Wars by Stern kills it. Iron Man kills it. Most of the people don't know what a packed playfield even is. And as long as the flippers flip on the game and there is some theme integration... They are happy to put in another dollar...
Yeah, all the pinballs that I know and play in Dallas on location are in BARcades. Emphasis on Bar. As in alcohol. Where they make their money. With games set on free play.
Rush and GnR work really well in that setting but Wonka usually just sits there collecting dust because the alcohol drinking BARcade customers aren’t really into kids themes. And while they are open for < 21 during the day, it’s dead. The market for parents with kids driving to barcades during the day doesn’t exist.
Quoted from flynnibus:That maybe your neck of the woods - but that’s why they call it anecdotal evidence.
Breweries do exactly what you say doesn’t happen / because in many areas breweries can’t have late hours
Yeah, I’m sure that it’s a hit in breweries where 10 year olds hang during the day enjoying a sampler of craft beers.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Ice as one Texan to another, don’t believe from what I’m hearing people are fighting over the chance to buy an empty PF for a shocking $15,000.00.
A Mirco High Class Playfield!
Does anyone actually take these STDM videos seriously as anything other than an infomercial?
They have very good production values but basically no views, for YouTube standards. So either they are very charitable pinball enthusiasts (producing on that level is not cheap) gifting “free” content or they want to sell something to you.
It’s obviously the latter because this hobby doesn’t do charity.
I mean, 15k views right now for their TS4 video. No one produces one video after the other looking as polished as SDTM for $60 cash (=what 15k views are worth) from YouTube and I’m certain they don’t do this for love.
Quoted from manadams:They are supposedly not set up for widebody games anymore.
I’m surprised that this would be a problem? Their rotisseries can’t handle another inch or two? Weird.
I mean, it’s not like a semiconductor fab, where you’d have to get multi million dollar equipment if you change process, is it?
Quoted from blacklightprod:Don’t say that your comments have way to much TRUTH and HONESTLY… this will get you cancelled. What a brave man you are my friend. Your comments wave in the face of the narrative being spewed.
Huh LOL?! You forgot to rant about woke, mainstream media and the deep state.
Are you really that insecure in your Toy Story love that you have to resort to whiny right wing language?
No one wants to cancel you. Breathe!!!
It’s just funny when adults flip out when they get criticized if they get suckered into buying a $15k+ pinball machine where the highlight is a pop up Gabby bash toy.
Quoted from JohnTTwo:I do not understand how so many dealers can have stock of this pin right now ready for delivery. How many will JJP pump out until they feel the distro are full?
Could this be the first pin in years that available upon release?
It’s because getting people to part with $12000 plus tax isn’t easy, unless there’s a shortage of a highly desirable item which will likely increase in value.
TS4 doesn’t tick any of these three boxes (yet) so that’s why you can just waltz in and pick one up.
The pandemic and the easy ride for manufacturers of toilet paper is over.
Quoted from Vernisious:That's a bummer. I like most pinball companies and feel we are in a great time for innovation and creative games. I'm excited to flip TS4 and am shocked at the hate (not that shocked).
What’s with people 2022 who need a dictionary for basic words like “hate”?
I sense disappointment and ridicule but hate?
Personally I write mildly against TS4, mainly because I feel it’s a lazy “effort” from JJP where cost cutting clashes with MSRP.
But rest assured, I don’t hate TS4 or JJP. I hate that carbs give me love handles.
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Well, here’s someone who’s played and gone thru the Wizard mode…and it’s not too fun or enjoyable…
So the ball times are long? That’s a 16 min video of the second half of a game.
And for a kids theme, that guy sure dropped a whole arsenal of F and A bombs. I’m going to go wash my ears now.
Quoted from Vernisious:Nice video! Looks like he and others watching are having a blast. Jump ramp is butter and not as easy as he makes it look. Flow is solid. It's cool that a top players laughing and smiling while playing pinball then says it's not fun. As an average player it looks like a blast. Thanks for sharing.
I thought that this was strange too. It looked like he had an absolute blast playing the game. It does look like a lot of fun.
I can’t believe that adults are so triggered by “woke”. It’s just pinball. Get over the fact that gay people exist. Sheesh.
Quoted from AJC3030:The best value on the market right now is how Chicago priced cactus canyon at 8k.
That price is the main reason why I’m seriously considering a Cactus Canyon. I’m so tempted.
My personal limit is $12k for a perfect pin so something like Cactus Canyon, which to me is very good but not perfect, is going to sell by price. At $10k, I would not even consider it.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:It’s so much more than that and since you fail to see it or acknowledge it then not going to waste my time to explain it to you. I would get modded immediately. Key words grooming, kids, puberty blockers. That is why many of us care.
I don’t need your explanation. Your type feels the need to drag pinball into some right wing crap and I voiced my opinion without soliciting yours.
I just played it and think it’s fun, easy and totally looking the part.
It’s a super attractive pinball machine and it’s obvious that the designers are highly skilled.
I actually found that it hides its mechanical simplicity fantastically well. I enjoyed it a lot but yeah, the price is absurd.
It’s a forum so people will post opinions and some are very strongly disliking this game.
That’s just how it is.
Unless the discussion becomes offensively rude or political, why would this need moderation?
Debating (and criticizing or even trashing) the game of the thread’s title is “fair” and part what a forum is.
Even if some don’t like that others talk bad about their $12k-$15k investment.
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