He is clearly a troll trying to get a rise out of people. I highly recommend people just use the handy 'ignore' feature pinside has implemented on him.

Agreed.

The designer known for loading his games with toys working on a Toy Story game with a company who is known for allowing their designers a fairly large bill of materials. It has a lot of potential.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not without my reservations. Chipping playfields are a little concerning, but it's hard to tell how widespread that issue actually is.

I don't even think it's that.

If you look at his game ratings. He straight up gave monster bash, medieval madness, GNR, etc a reviews of 5 or less. In fact nothing they reviewed was over a 5. Clearly the man just wants to watch the world burn.

In this thread he was actively trying to get dislikes.

I honestly am surprised Pinside doesn't ban him straight up.

Does it move to the washers?

I haven't heard of anyone still having issues with the plastic washers, though I haven't really been looking too hard. Do you know of an example of this?

From my understanding the issue is with the clear coat not being 100% cured by the time it reaches people houses.

I would expect the washers to disperse the impact of the post enough preventing this from happening and after a long enough timeframe, the coating would be completely cured, preventing the issue from ever occurring.

That being said, I still struggle to comprehend how widespread the issue really is. I've played a lot of JJP games at many locations and have never noticed the issue on them and I always look. Their games tend to have plenty of other issues, but the clear coat bubbling isn't one I've witnessed.

This all makes me believe that in a HUO setting, with the plastic washers, it would be very unlikely for the issue to occur.

That being said, JJP's complete dismissal of the issue and unwillingness to help those effected is definitely a problem that should not be taken lightly. They should've stepped up and done something for those effected. These games are priced as a luxury item, you would expect customer service that matches the cost.

Just as an FYI. There is some discussion on this image starting at post #182 (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjp-toy-story/page/4#post-6737601). It seemed pretty split on whether people buy it as one of the new artworks or not. I will say, I think it's Buzz on the left side.

Have you played a P3 before? I really like what they're offering and hope they continue to knock it out of the park with their new modules.

I've only played a P3 one time at Expo and in my opinion the flippers felt off and the flipper button module extending out of the game just felt wrong.

That being said, since then they've released updated flippers, so I'm hoping the fixes my main concern with the game.

I do think the P3 is one of those try before you buy scenarios though as it is very different than what other people are offering.

I really like the premise and hope this new game will sell units like crazy for them.

Ritchie just finished his first white wood at JJP. His game is still a ways out.

Toy Story will be Pat Lawlor's next game.

To reinforce your point.

I just looked at all the other JJP playfields, and I don't think this lower trough section matches anything they've put out yet.

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They're listed as a vendor here: https://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/vendors/

Which would make me think someone from JJP ought to be there. It sounds like MGC was also where Lawlor's last game was revealed too.

That all being said, it doesn't look like they have their own event or anything and none of the main JJP designers are listed as attending. So, it's hard to say.

First of all, Johnny Mnemonic is an amazing movie, where else would you get clips like this from:

Secondly, it would be pretty uncharacteristic of JJP to base the machine off of some new IP that doesn't already have a raving fanbase behind it, and quite frankly, it would be kind of dumb of them to do so.

It would also be pretty uncharacteristic of JJP to make a pinball machine on an IP that they can't easily get the rights to use their assets for, so I would imagine the full crew of toys to be there. I could even see Etch-A-Sketch having a screen on the game and slinky being a ramp.

I really don't think the new game's theme will be based on the new Lightyear movie.

This isn't very uncommon.

Terminator 2, Terminator 3, & Lethal Weapon 3 are some pretty common ones.

The Stern Batman game was based off of the 2nd batman in the trilogy.

You could make arguments for Star Wars Episode 1 pinball machine being the 4th movie in the series.

Edit: Corrected Batman game to 2nd game

My first job was at a pizza place making about a dollar above minimum wage. I worked hard and really enjoyed my time there.

My second job was at a factory unlike these making cameras for the automotive industry. They worked us like animals and treated us as numbers who are easily replaceable. If we were lucky, we would get a day off every 14 days (due to state law). And they would decline any PTO you put in, I couldn't even get time off for my brother's wedding. The tricky part was the company offered more money than most unskilled labor around, which was only like $3 over minimum wage, but made you feel like you would be stupid to leave. It felt like a toxic relationship. The hard part is that there are a lot of low income workers that need that extra pay to survive. They have family to take care of after all. For me, it was a job while in college, for most, it was their full time career.

I do think my experience may be an extreme example, but I think in general, you can't compare manufacturing to a normal minimum wage high school like job. I think your statement about it not being a career is wrong, it generally is a full time career for these low income people and they are often treated like garbage.

Someone at one point reported that there would be a jump shot, like on 'No Good Gophers'. I'm not sure how reliable the source was.

I just listened to the video and I didn't hear him say it would be announced in a couple weeks.

At one point around 13 minutes in he said that it 'maybe' revealed in a few weeks and near the end of the video he said it would be revealed in the coming weeks.

I would not hold my breath on it being two weeks out.

Just out of curiosity, what pinball manufacturer do you think is not all about profit?

I agree.

The game is bound to cost more.

The cost of lumber, labor, shipping, computer components, and other parts has all gone up by a significant margin. Plus, their main competitor raised their prices by a significant margin.

Not only that, but I don't think it's wild to say that the CE will jump by an even larger margin after JJP saw the half assed EHoH 40th edition sell out in minutes at $25k.

It annoys me that people are jumping into a speculation thread and complaining about people speculating on the price. It's all in good fun. If they don't find it amusing to speculate, they don't have to. They need to leave the people who find it fun peace.

I don't expect JJP will price CEs at $20k.

That being said, Stern's EHoH 40th, a game that already have 2 previous other collectors editions sold before hand was easily able to sell 200 games at $25K within a day, and they barely did anything to the game... some powder coating, a new shooter, a new apron, and some new side decals... it didn't even include a topper. JJPs CEs do tend to be a bit better of an offer, in terms of additions they add on.

I personally do think they'd be able to sell about 500 games at that price point. Though, probably not many more than 500.

My expectation is that JJP will both increase the cost of the CE and the quantity. Something along the lines of $15k a game and 1000 units.

Please no... mini playfields with mini balls and mini flippers are always the worst.

I would love an ALF table.

I had it pretty high on my list of potential themes to make a homebrew table of.

Oh boy, you sound like a marketer...

We want details! Not wordplay.

I'm pretty sure many people have sought out the Harry Potter license for pinball over the last couple of decades and J. K. Rowling actively doesn't want there to be one.

Last I knew, she is one of those people who still considers them gambling devices.

The limited number doesn't really give it value. I believe Jack has said that the last couple of games they've sold, they have sold less standard editions than any other version. The standard is really the most limited version... Plus, looks at WOZ, they can make as many different types of collectors editions as they please. They're not so limited after all.

People generally just want the best version of the game.

It is a bummer that they prevent anyone who wants one from getting one. This mainly just benefits the flippers.

I can't imagine Tom Hanks is cheap. They couldn't even get his likeness on games like Apollo 13. Custom voicework would be even more costly. I'd personally rather JJP not spend the majority of their R&D on his voice, especially when his brother is a perfect fit for the role and sounds identical.

Plus, everyone knows the real best voicework in Toy Story was Jim Varney as Slinky...

It also looks like it has two vertical up kickers next the front two pops. So I'm guessing we're going to see something a little similar to whirlwind. With a scoop, a shot through some pop bumpers, and another scoop.

I've heard a lot of people say the next game is actually The Matrix from Eric. I thought the Godfather rumor died out.

Is there any kind of right ramp? What happens to the ball when you hit the right orbit shot that the upper flipper is along?

Can anyone tell what happens when you hit the right orbit shot?

I'm trying to figure out if there is some kind of ramp hidden back there or not. I think a ramp back there would really help this game have good flow.

You can order it at noon. Most likely the actual reveal will be the same time.

There is a plastic sheet over the pop bumpers much like No Good Gofers.

Where are those images from?

You willing to share the link? I'm on the email blast, but my email hasn't come through yet.

Saucer kicks the ball to the right to feed the upper flipper.

Any idea when we'll be able to hear your thoughts on it?

Is this the SDTM featurette video, or something else? If it's something else, do you mind sharing a link?

It's a normal looping shot like we've seen on many games before. Who doesn't like a good looping shot?

Just for comparison sake. Using coils as they tend to be a good indicator on cost.

GZ Premium Mechs:
Total Coils 10:
3 flippers
2 slingshots
1 autoplunger
1 Bridge coil
1 VUK
1 Ball lock VUK
1 pop bumper

Toy Story:
Total Coils 24 :
4 pop bumpers
3 flippers
2 slings
2 autoplunger + kickback
3 pop up ramp shot and individual controlled posts
1 pop up target
1 vuk
1 saucer
2 Controlled Drop target
2 up posts
3+ diverters

I think you get similar results if you compare other cost like RGBs, playfield glass, display, motors, gimmicks, etc.

I personally don't think the bill of materials comes close between a JJP LE and Stern Premium.

That is not to say that more mechs means a better game. It is amazing how full Stern's games feel when they're in fact quite barren in side by side comparison.

As a side note, I probably missed a coil or two on each count.

Did you even read my post? I said that the BOM cost does not equate to a good game and I also said that coils were only one aspect of the BOM.

If you're talking other toys between the two.

I would think the stepper motor and rails used for the building and the motor for Mecha Godzilla toy are probably pretty equivalent in cost to the tablet with their custom assembly and spinning wheel mech. If you count the included shaker motor and the camera as toys too, than TS probably also has a bigger BOM for toys too.

I can't think of a single element of the game where I would think that Godzilla would cost more to produce than Toy Story.

I personally do think there is a real difference in BOM cost difference between a Stern Premium and a JJP LE.

Do you honestly think that a Godzilla Premium cost the same to make as a Toy Story LE from a BOM standpoint?

I'm not disagreeing that Elwin is providing a bigger bang for buck in terms of BOM. I'm just stating that one game is clearly more expensive to make than the other.

Edit: I realized I didn't address your habit trails. I would expect the cost of Godzilla's additional habit trails would be about equal in cost to TS rails being as each ramp has some kind of diverter mech and they're all being powder coated.

I'm not making a statement on who is using the BOM of materials better. I just think it's silly to act like TS LE cost the same to make as Godzilla Premium.

The building mech is a stepper motor with rails. If you look at 3D printers on amazon, you can get one for around $80, which has two sets of these motors with rails. Is the gate at the top of the building motorized? I thought it just caught something on it's way down.

I'm guessing it cost Stern around $40 for that mech. The motor for MechaGodzilla is probably even cheaper, let's say it cost them $20 dollars for that. Estimating around $60.

In terms of additional motors on TS LE, you have the Spinning Wheel Mechanism, which I would expect cost them around $20, and the shaker motor. Which I would expect costs them around $40. Estimating around $60. The cost of motors between these two games has to be really close.

This is probably the one mech where both games probably equal out in cost.

Does Godzilla use that estimated $60 in motor cost for a better effect, certainly! That is not the argument I'm making though.

When you start including things like the coil cost, the cost of the tablet, the cost to powder coat, the cost of the bigger screen, the invisi-glass, the sound system, the cost of over 300 rgb leds and hot rails. It's clear to me that Toy Story has to cost more to make.

Do you think otherwise?

I personally find that statement dumb.

Not everything needs mass appeal to be good...

Country, Rap, Punk, edm & Rock music are all divisive. There is a large population that loves those types of music and a large population that hates them. Does that really mean that their bad?

Is Pop the only good music because that is the most popular?

Of course not.

Chill out.

SDTM provides many of us with free entertainment and they never claimed to be unbiased source...

If you find yourself not enjoying their videos or simply can't stand to hear someone enjoying something you've already made up your mind that you'll hate.

Simply don't watch it.

You're acting like they killed your cat or something...

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1509490756 -> Go to 22:40

EDIT: Here is just the clip of the skill shot: https://clips.twitch.tv/GorgeousPoorPigeonTheTarFu-I9It4aVfrge-JGmI

As someone who hasn't played it yet, there are a ton of contradictory statements.

A lot of people say it's too easy. While another group of people say those outlanes and pops are drain machines. Can't an owner setup their game to be as difficult as they want it to be?

Some people have said the shots are too open. While other people complain that the lock shot, scoop, skill shot, jump shot, and warp target are difficult. Isn't it better to have a good mix of easy and hard shots?

People complain about the flipper feel while other people are saying they're the best feeling JJP flippers. If you don't hate other JJP games flippers, this is a good sign.

There has also been a lot of love and hate for the jump shot. Some people say it's so buttery smooth, others saying it's janky and unsatisfying.

At least both camps tend to agree that it is fun game and expensive.

That is a terrible way to determine whether something is easy.

As a counter example, Tony Hawk can do Indy 540s all day, without fail. If you only watched him, you'd assume they're easy, because they're easy for him, but 99% of other skaters can't land those at all. If someone is very good at something, everything they do looks easy...

A better test for whether something is easy is how easy average players find it and if you're trying to figure out how easy it would be for you, then the best test would be watching players of a similar skill level to you play it.

A legitimate 500 million point game would on average take around a couple hours to play...

Either she managed to find an exploit, something in the game was broken, or she actually managed to get a score of around 500k and thought it was higher.

I mean Jack clearly stated he was planning to start production of another game before the end of the year.

Being as they basically did GNRs only for 2 years. It sounds to me like they weren't expecting it to sell at the same rate.

I think they knew the increase in cost would have an effect on the quantity sold.

That all being said, I expect their profit margin is higher on TS4. Hence, they still may make more (in the money sense) than GNR. Even if they sell less.

Last I knew distributors took a much larger cut than that.

I thought it was around 25-30% of the MSRP of the game.

There is no way they'd use Bluetooth for this communication. I'm sure it's the same tech that has been used since Lane Change was invented.

Most of the lag is likely due to the display. As others have mentioned, virtual pinball is pretty awful on consoles, because there is input lag, and that is with a TV in game mode. You can get a better experience with a gaming PC and a monitor, mainly due to monitors offering things like VRR.

There is no way that display isn't some cheap off the shelf product that probably that likely isn't setup to support a 'Game' mode. Hence, the input to the screen is likely taking over 100ms of time to render. And that is all just the time it takes from the display getting the input to actually displaying it. Which is a very noticeable amount of time. JJP can probably reduce the lag somewhat, as they're probably introducing some delay on their end, but it's never going to feel great.

IMO, if you don't like it, Go to the settings, and set it to not have any ball save. At that point it becomes one of the weaker rewards on the wheel and you can actively shoot a spin loop to avoid it.

Because the Pro games are significantly more reliable and reliability is important to many ops.

JJP didn't start putting washers under key playfield posts until after the issues came up with GNR playfields pooling.

They're only on the later Wonka runs.

How do you mean?

I don't think anyone got to the wizard mode once during the stream. If you're talking about physical shots, it's got a fairly standard number of shots.