I just hope jjp returns to the old jjp by really packing their games. My guess is that toy story will be similar to wonka and gnr which is good but not the same bom as woz, potc, etc. It’s called diet jjp. Tricky part is the price will be much higher than before although it doesn’t matter when they see games like stranger things sell for 16k.

Prediction - toy story comes out and shoots really well but lacks magic/toys.

JJP 2.0 in full force

And that’s disappointing.

Anyone expecting more is going to be disappointed.

I feel like you predicted accurately the prior release pricing. Is that right? Maybe pull in your previous posts from when you predicted earlier jjp games to show others if I’m correct.

If you think this game is going to be “packed” you haven’t been paying attention to the past few years at JJP. Started with wonka and continued with gnr and as someone that owns woz and wonka, it’s clear as day. Less is more for jjp right now (Less toys, more playfield issues and more expensive) and I would expect that to continue unless they decide to change their business model. Lawlor, who’s been pulling features from games like gnr goes ahead and then loads up his game like it’s twilight zone? No Way.

I predict teaser tomorrow with the date of reveal which I also predict will be Tuesday next week. 15k CE, double the CEs as gnr and No standard editions

Regardless of it being packed or not, we’re talking a new lawlor and a new jjp which is exciting. Bring it

I don’t take notes of others with too much time on their hands - just stating my view. If that’s what many think, then they’re right as well IMO. Just like those that think this will be ultra loaded for some reason are drinking the jjp kook aid. I hope I’m wrong though on that as I would love jjp 1.0 to show back up

And your point is? I’m an active member but I don’t take notes on what people like yourself say. I’m not a follower - just stating what I see and move on. Or I’ll ask for tech advice or provide where I can.

So yes, I love pinball and enjoy pinside. Add that to your list as you continue stalking me.

No I’ve updated to make it clear that trolls like you is who I’m referring to. You have nothing better to do with your boring life but try to stir something up on a pinball forum. But continue stalking me - the jealousy is obvious. Nothing but pity for chumps like you. I’m sure life sucks enough - no need to further embarrass yourself.

And please spare us with your predictable it’s me not you response. Guys like you are a dime a dozen here and are a complete waste of time so I’ll take one for the team and ask you just pm me…. so I can continue further ignore you bc last word from me on this

Back to the topic at hand. Excited to see the reveal hopefully early this week. I thought a teaser today so maybe full reveal will be later next week.

Dealer just offered me a CE at 25k. No joke.

Wow

Not going to name - just not my style but they’ve been added to my never buy from list. I can understand some increase but I have zero tolerance for distributors up charging that much. The best is when distributors upcharge and defend it by saying they just received it as NIB trade in. Yeah right. Guy trades in their NIB Godzilla LE For another game at msrp? Gtfo.

The craziness will die down and hopefully customers remember the ones who played by the rules and the ones who didn’t.

Waiting for someone smarter than me in pinball to break all of the parts down and what we could be looking at!

We need more of this and less market speculation bc spoiler, CE sells out on less than an hour.

CE at 18k sells out in a day so 15 is easy. This market doesn't think twice now below 19.5 (as 20 scares people). Simple truth.

Why doesn't jjp sell higher than 15k then? Bc they don't need to. The margin is already ridiculous. This hobby just continues to prove out how much money is out there.

You're buying at 18. Stop

I love the guys who say 2.5k more I'm out yet 15k I'm in . the truth is if you're crazy (like me) and buying a pinball machine at 12k or 15k, you're paying 18k too

Now I'm sure you're being truthful in theory but in reality you're buying it. Who's not buying is 97℅ of the world who thinks we're crazy.

I love asking

Good point about tax. Dumb question but I guess tax will be applied even if you’re not in Illinois? Damn 7% or so here in Penn on top of 15k? Yikes

Good news pinside. JJP has already glued on toy story characters to the pf for you so check that box!

Wow - woke up this morning and just so disappointed. I called it - jjp 2.0 is in full effect. The days of woz innovation are dead. Absolutely dead! But couple that cost cutting approach and pairing it with TS4? What were they thinking? And I don’t want to hear it shoots well. Hello- that’s why we’re even paying attention to begin with - i would expect that from Pat. And no this isn’t pirates - that game was loaded and will prob represent the last true JJP game.

I was hoping for so much more than what I’m seeing right now. Not because of some podcaster that literally hypes every new game bc my expectations were not great to begin with. Even the Colors of LE and CE armor matching wonka along with some similar placement of items on pf is interesting too. Edit - that blue looks flat with no sparkle. Great.

After all this time, they spent how much time working on this game and we have this. I get once the proper reveal happens we’ll get a better appreciation and I’m sure it will be fun. It’s a game from one of the greatest but missed opportunities is an understatement. Unfortunately you can’t add actual hardware - game looks even more barren than even I was expecting. Jump ramp is def the highlight for me. Interested to see how Meny and the boys spin this. Hard not to acknowledge what’s going on here.

#Screen Story 4

Not seeing any toys.

Off to meetings. Hopefully the real reveal stuns us wwf/wcw takeover style.

If that is the only goal now at JJP, then all hope is lost to relive the magic Jack intended to provide when this company started. You can’t have the bar that low and charge 15k. The company is officially going backwards now which is disappointing.

I do appreciate you chiming in though when literally every reaction is not good. So credit there for sure and I don’t think you have been offensive at all. Appreciate your perspective but JJP can do much better than this.

Edit -glad to hear Tim Allen call outs are in there. That and the ramp shot are my highlights

Imagine toy story looked like an updated version of this? CV? Remember when games were packed and innovative……almost 30 years ago?

Or even JJP#1 - almost 10 years ago.

Compare that to this?

I’m out at 15k. I don't support a price hike like this with nothing to show for it. JJP shouldn't try to be stern b/c they're charging much more. LE would be the way to go but buying now is foolish unless you need it right away. Used LE prices ftw.

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flippers are really sweating this now......

If it sells out quick it's due to flippers taking a chance. Then see what happens and using Halloween and UM as an example, prob not good considering they're in 15 plus tax.

not sold out - you can add to cart easily.

Edit - gone.

Hearing Ken Cromwell say that no corners were cut when making this game really is sickening to hear. I get he's the marketing guy but Ken, GTFO. Seriously? No corners were cut yet we have this ultra barren playfield with toy story figures glued to the PF? And you're charging 15k? Oh the TPN shilling on this game is going to be through the roof. I hope I'm wrong and there is some honest feedback b/c I don't care if this game shoots like a dream - no one can be that happy when it's TS4 and stripped even worse than wonka. And now you're charging 12k to get in!

Just remember this when buying games from these guys in the future. It's one thing to try and sell a product - I get it but to take it to this level and say how this game is super innovative b/c there is a jump ramp and a big ipad which was an obvious cost cutting play, makes me really lose respect for these people. There is a better more balanced way to handle it than basically telling your customers you think we're idiots - buy buy buy at 15k.

I'm exciting to play any new pinball and this will be no diff but this is a new low for JJP. You're going backwards from what you set out to do AND you're charging more.

I don't think SDTM would remove negative comments. It's not that bad.

***Public service announcement***

Simple common sense reminder to some - you can't expect a straight review from SDTM when they were literally just paid by JJP to shoot the promo video. Not enough? How about the JJP marketer of this game is literally another friend of these guys. No corners cut on TS4 remember? Still not enough? Well, the same two (SDTM) are literally SELLING the damn game as well.

Now if you still think you're getting an honest view, do yourself a favor and hand your wallet over to a responsible adult so you can save yourself the trouble later.

And this is not a statement on these two - they're not bad people. It's pinball at the end of the day and I have no hostility. I honestly think they don't even know the bias that exists b/c there was a time when they were like you and I but now they're distributors. Other distro's have enough sense to not try and influence pinsiders directly - these guys want to continue doing both which is comical. It's entertainment at the end of the day for me which is why I still listen. Why not.

If you want to buy this game, go ahead and send JJP the message that we will pay more for much much less but you can't responsibly look to SDTM to guide you in how you purchase something. Many pinsiders get it but I see some new guys or folks who are just drinking the kool aid and it pains me to see you being take advantage of.

***Public service announcement over***

Are they purposely including annoying effects in Pat's games? That spinner bell is really cringe worthy. It's prob the worst part of Wonka's very poor sound and they now are using it for a spinner shot? A few others - very slot machine heavy. Damn.

Game seems very straight forward to shoot. Tom's brother really does sound like his brother, def not Tom although it's better than nothing. Tim sounds like I would expect - bored but it's tim's voice so still a plus. Jump ramp doesn't or look feel nearly as epic as NGG considering it just goes right in regardless.

EDIT - is there only one magnet (in the back right) or are there more?

You really don’t get what people are complaining about? There are far worse games?

Do those games cost 15k for the CE or 12k for the entry trim? Do those games represent a giant step back in what the company did before but then charge 3 times the amount? Did those games promise innovation and say no corners were cut and then glue on cake toppers that cost $20? What a joke. C’mon clearstar - you deserve better for that money. NightTrain - I really want to see you keep your CE and take that 15k+ hit. Then I will truly appreciate what you’re saying. I hope we don’t see it on the MP soon ; )

Let me add in some more classics I’m hearing…..this is a good one……

when did games have to be loaded to be good? When was that a requirement? Here’s the obvious answer…….when those games ask the customer to pay 15 thousand dollars - that’s when! Star Wars pro cost 6k. Add 9K to that and yeah - I sure as hell expect that game to now have something in it. I passed on TS CE today and happy to do so. I wasn't going to get Cromwelled into buying a machine that has less than before but costs more.

I can see people saying WoZ is loaded but man it doesn’t shoot well - I rather the game shoot well than be loaded. OK - sounds good. How about that same game that is no longer loaded and therefore has a lower BOM not cost 15K??? Doesn’t that make sense? I guess b/c it’s “fun” and “shoots well” - now it’s going to cost 12k or 15k. GTFO.

Bottom line - we deserve better guys. And that distributor now selling his “last” CE at 17.5 or game goodies in Arizona selling at 24.5k. They should be on your never buy from list again.

Appreciate the input. You sound very easy going and appear to be OK with spending 12k+ on it. If you feel that's money well spent, more power to you. The game not having nearly as much as what they did in their earlier games (WoZ, Hobbit) - that's a fact, not an opinion though. Star wars pro reference was not me - I was responding to someone else who made the comparison. I think it's ridiculous as well.

haha - I do know you! Hence my message! You're like me when I first started in this hobby in 2015. I used to move games in a matter of weeks, trying to experience them all. I'm getting too old for that now so things stay here much longer and quite frankly I've seen them all, some multiple times! Good stuff NightTrain

Oh this thread - haven’t revisited all day and over 200 new replies. The new one I love reading from JJP apologists is this…….

“So much complaining and yet no one on these boards has even seen it or played it yet. How dare you judge!”

Spoiler alert - we’ve all seen it. JJP tried to Cromwell us. We should want the game based on toy story 4, with no toys except cake toppers on the pf. Problem is we’re smarter than that - hence the negative feedback. We’re not here to interview Pat and stand by while he says it’s the most innovative pinball ever. But don’t worry it shoots well and it’s fun. Buy Buy Buy!

All these sales of CEs - majority are flippers who are already nervous or dealers like the idiots out in Arizona charging 25k. Yeah how’s that going?

As for playing it - newsflash! We’re all expecting that this game will shoot well. We’ve already given them credit for that. It’s in the plus category. It’s a Pat Lawlor game. It will shoot like DI and Wonka. Sweet. Imagine it didn’t though? This place would burn down.

On top of all of this disappointment, you really haven’t even heard about those Marco pfs. Imagine that isn’t fixed either?

But hey……No corners cut right? Thanks Ken for standing up for this community and allowing us to get all of this for only 12-15k.

Pour one out for my Tron pro. It’s gorgeous and glad it’s still being loved

I think it’s clear that many are disappointed, including myself. What’s really interesting is the flip market. It’s going to be hilarious watching these fools go lower and lower as the market continues to realize what’s going on here.

Take ThirdFlipper - guy lists his flip attempt lower and lower each day. Started 25, now 16.5. Prob 15 tomorrow so he’s not stuck actually losing money as this market will flood. What was telling yesterday too was GAP selling their CE at cost. Look at their ads/sales history and they’re hardly the boyscout in the group when it comes to pricing.

Remember - TS4 sold through to distributors and flippers but what about to actual customers? Time will tell but when the flip market is this soft, prepare for some nice pricing during the next year as customers, who truly bought this game to play, get bored as well. I’ll predict LE 9500 within 6-12 months.

No corners cut on that CE @15k! The best are guys continuing to convince themselves this game is worth that much when in their gut, they know better. Only in pinball does someone hold on to a 15k+ expense like it is a badge of honor. It’s delusional. Credit to MaxIsDead for breaking that trend and using his brain and speaking with his wallet.

We deserve better

Ok - let me see how real this is. Hopefully they can at least acknowledge the obvious (terrible choice to go TS4, no mechs, and too expensive for what they provide). These are just facts. No one would pick TS4, there are no custom mechs and it can shoot well and be fun but that’s not 12-15. Jumping in……will update shortly.

So I had a chance to watch the SDTM video - their first impressions of toy story. For those that haven’t seen it, I’m linking below

I listened to the entire thing and you guys know I’m a straight shooter and I’ve been critical of Zach and the boys shilling in the past - not dancing around that. But I still listen Bc it’s entertainment. This post is longer than expected but it wrote itself.

This video was disgusting. Even for SDTM - this is an entirely new level of shill to the point where it literally was a commercial that ended with a, “Where can I buy this? Well - at FlipNOut pinball! They even said pull the trigger! The kids will take the pin over! Wow. I’m sorry is this impressions or a sale? But we know the answer - obvious hype sell video which is what I really can’t stand. Just say what you’re doing guys. And if Zach wants to feel uncomfortable again and have me on I’ll be happy to juice up the views and I’ll be as respectful as I was before to discuss TS4. I type this here but have no problem saying it directly live bc I don’t stand for shady sales tactics.

I’ll leave some real nuggets from their own words bc even for my low SDTM standards there are some shill classics here.

“If you like Ballys 90s pins you will like this game.”

This could be the most ridiculous shill statement from this crew ever. Not even going to dive into this. Still shaking my head. They say later that jjp was aiming to be like 90s Bally (implying they were successful in doing so). Really? Not one mech, literally no magic? Shame.

“Is there anything mech wise you didn’t like”? Greg says no - not really.

No - not really? Everyone else who’s not selling the game would respond like this…..Zach - are you joking or are you just that much of a shill Bc there are no custom mechs in the game so what is there not to like? But hey - as Greg says - what makes up for the lack of everything is the fact it’s fun!……. It just costs 12-15k. Buy Buy Buy!

Zach says TS4 reminds him of Elvira house of horrors Bc there aren’t many mechs.

I guess Zach missed that GIGANTIC mech right in the middle of the pf called the custom house. Everyone knows Stern hates making that game Bc there are a ton of custom mechs/sculps on it. Shame. Buy Buy Buy - 15k

Zach says Toy Story 4 has TWO spinners! Wow. Awesome. 12- 15k

Zach says JJP could of saved money by including only 1 or 2 voices but they included 3!

I’m not a pinball manufacturer but I’m assuming they saved a lot of money by not including any custom mechs or toys that require more than 3 hrs of development. That’s just called common sense. And they got clips from toy story 4 - the movie no one wanted and no company would even care to pay for. Awesome

Zach says Joe Katz is a friend.

Yep that checks out. Probably the most honest thing I heard. Cromwell is already #1 but Joe they’ll make you happy too.

Zach says the one mech he loves is the saucer.

Yes - he’s calling out a SAUCER as a mech. New low.

Ok I’m stopping here. Zach tried to throw in “criticism” bc even he knows it can’t be all gushing and guess what - he says there could be one too many pop bumpers! Yep - Bc that’s what everyone is pissed about. What a joke.

There’s about 8 more things like the complete pass on that giant iPad and Zach’s kiss up tribute to Pat for basically taking JJP away from Jack, moving it to Chicago and essentially killing the JJP we all loved after WoZ….but just writing this disgusts me.

I’ve already acknowledged it will shoot well - that’s clear but to ignore all that it’s missing and not bringing that back to the price (just to debate) is so disappointing but also not surprising bc that was just an ad. I appreciate the other dealers who are wise enough not to try and make fake impressions videos to sell their games. It’s shameful.

Stop trying to influence newbies through pinside and just sell machines.

I was able to catch Carl's 2nd play on TS4 last night. I think he's streams are really top notch.

Although it def seems the shots on this thing seem pretty safe and limited (compared to something from KE) and the code looks very straight forward, I wouldn't get too hung up on how easy the game is b/c Karl is amazing. I should be able to play this game before end of day and will post my non distributor and non industry friend influenced juiced up hype feedback shortly thereafter. Keep in mind, I own a Wonka CE which is flawed no doubt but there is just enough there (at the price I paid paired with there being only 500) to justify the purchase so I will likely be comparing the two as well. I also owned a DI which I really enjoyed as well and have a lot of experience with.

Just real quick takeaways - the game seems to be in-line with initial expectations. Super stripped down JJP that seems to shoot well and isn't even close to being a 12-15k pin. The music and sound (especially the effects) seem even more annoying than what I've seen already. That looping music in one of the MBs along with the spinner bell ring alone would drive me insane. That kickout/saucer to setup the upper right seems surprisingly clunky but I'm sure that can be adjusted. The carnival setting is really so in your face that it also felt like TS characters just thrown into a carnival game which is disappointing and something I didn't really get when this game was first shown.

I'm also terrible at pinball compared to many of you so I will be able to really tell you how easy this is. Less complex code isn't a bad thing btw - I love mode based games - it's just how well it's implemented. Typically those with limited code can be successful when paired with great sound and magic/custom mechs or features to get the eyes attention as you go from shot to shot, which this game has none of.

Hands on tonight.

Toy Story 4 Hands On Impressions (after playing it for an hour or so). Shout out to @helicon brewery in Pittsburgh. Best pinbar period.

Toy Story 4 - Home edition. It's my new name for this game after seeing and playing it in person.

If this was JJP's new line of games, similar to stern's and was priced accordingly, I would think about buying it. It's fun. It shoots well. But it's obviously been stripped down so that it fits under the new home edition line that JJP kicked off for this......oh wait - no, this game is 12-15k. What is going on here? Didn't they work on this game for two years+?

And so the cycle continues. My initial impressions and now having hands on with this game is that it's too expensive and it's WAY too easy (which was surprising to me). More on that later but anyone that gives you their impressions and doesn't talk about cost to value is either a distributor selling you the game, a hype machine that appears to be giving impressions but is still just selling you the game or a pinball collector trying to convince themselves they didn't make a mistake.

But....Toy Story 4 is not a bad game by any means. It's does a lot of things well and if it was coupled with old school JJP mechs and about 3k more of BOM, this could have been something really good. Unfortunately, it's just so clear that JJP is testing out the market and stretching those margins as much as they could. It's simpler in every way and could have been so much more satisfying. Here are the quick hits of what works and what doesn't, along with some general observations:

+Great call outs. I really enjoyed Tim Allen's work along with Tom's brother. When I think about Pats other similar game (Wonka), TS4 is stronger although Wonka has the worst narrator in modern pinball history only remediated by the CE edition which thankfully brings in someone else to offset.

+Shoots well and is fun. Oh the most cliché phrase in pinball that evidently now costs 12-15k, it truly does shoot well and is fun to play. Never doubted that either. It's way more open than Pat's other two however I still enjoy shooting Wonka more and DI would be third just b/c of that moving target so close to the flippers but all three are really fun to shoot. No one does a better captive ball than Pat. Loved it on Wonka, love it here too.

+Code is straight forward and very easy to follow. It was quite refreshing walking up to a new JJP game and having no questions about what to shoot. Call outs tell you what to shoot, that ipad in the back corner also tells you what to do, etc. Now, on the flip side, this led to a really simple experience that I'll outline in the negative column but if they're targeting kids with 12-15k to spend or really bad pinball players like myself, mission accomplished.

+I liked some of the music - friend in me and some others worked well with the modes.

+I enjoyed the forky combo task. Satisfying to hit all three in a row.

+I'm a sucker for hot rails and glad they continued to use them. Looks good especially on the fireworks (wizard).

+Kaboom shot is cool - although not as exciting as I thought it would be, still a plus. NGG Hole in One takes it for sure as the ball really doesn't seem to get that high and you either brick or the ball always makes it however it's such a quick little shot that is pretty easy to make.

+Speaking of, great sound effect on the kaboom shot. however

- The game has some of the worst sound effects I've experienced ever in pinball. Wonka was close but the crown has been passed to TS4. The left spinner (bell) and right spinner (Woody's shuffle) take the cake for the worst offenders. Problem is they go off all the time.

- Biggest surprise for me is how easy this game is. I'm not very good at pinball and after my 10th? game I was already at the wizard mode. See pic below. Now I understand there are two wizard modes and the second required me to play through it all again. For me, that is very unsatisfying as it’s just filler and repetitive and lazy. Code is just too simple. Good players and up will absolutely smoke this game bc simple code and…….

- The shots are waaaaaay too open. The left and right ramp are insanely easy to hit. I understand JJP is targeting a younger crowd but this is why, along with the complete lack of mechs, I believe this would be a great home edition game. The scoop is easy too. The hardest shot BY FAR is the skill shot on the plunge. At first I was going to have this as a plus but after achieving it (two times only), it just wasn't satisfying. I will give credit to Pat that the geometry to even get this to work is impressive so I left it as neutral for now.

- Absolutely no mechs. I know - obvious but so gut wrenching when you actually see it in person and realize they put little lights around a really cheap ipad screen and just threw it into the playfield. The screen is massive - the section it takes is huge and it absolutely sucks. No problem reading or seeing it though - angle on it was fine. The cheap cake topper toys are so embarrassing and I don't even know what to say about that horrendous cheap plastic thing over the left ramp return. What in the world were they doing for two years????Mods can't come soon enough but for 12-15k, what do you expect? They already gave you two spinners and speech from three people! Buy Buy Buy!

- Main screen is the simplest I've seen from JJP yet. Due to the IPAD, there probably wasn't a need to make the other giant screen as extravagant as it usually is. Compared to wonka, it's so simple and muted. Sad to see. Not the coders fault I guess - there just isn't a need for two screens unless you're trying to reduce cost.

- That little upper right flipper is the biggest disappointment for me gameplay wise. It just doesn't feel good and the lack of full size is apparent on every flip. I guess they couldn't get a normal size to to fit the layout but it doesn't have that same kinetic satisfaction. My best comparison is the loop on maiden with the top left little flipper. Yes it works and gets the job done but it doesn't pack the same punch. btw - that shot can hit three....scoop (hard), captive ball (not hard) and full loop (harder than it should be). Kick out to the little right flipper is OK although a little wonky some times.

- Shots on the left side feel very boring. The left ramp is so wide open it's comical. There is a left target shot that just falls flat and that ball lock shot on the left but that's about it. That IPAD on the left just really takes the life out of it and is such a missed opp. Speaking of the ball lock on the left....

- Super lazy ball lock - compared to other JJPs, I just got no satisfaction seeing the locks occur. Compared to wonka's lock, it's just so much simpler and less satisfying. Common theme throughout this game.

- No magnets at all that I could tell which is an absolute joke. Shameful jjp at this price point.

- Some asset comments.....the videos have no speech in them (from what I could remember). This might change with updated code but I doubt it. Also seeing the characters we all wanted more of (like Mr. P, slinky dog, etc) as collectable after beating a mode and just seeing them static, is almost a tease. Getting TS4 vs 1, 2 and even 3 - such a disappointment.

- Modes are super straight forward and lacked creativity. One mode was hit the giant left ramp 3 or 4 times. Sweet. Yes, the wizard mode was better and there are some others but majority just left me bored and with the lack of anything wowing my eyes, I almost turned the machine off after reaching wizard mode 1 b/c doing it again was boring.

- Carnival theme is WAY too much. It felt like I was playing a carnival game with guest star TS characters. When the road trip MB hits, it's so satisfying to get away from the Carnival atmosphere. Why isn't there more of this????

- Virtual pinball on the ipad was absolutely terrible. Framerate was low, physics felt off, everything about it was bad and it just reminded me of what could of been .

- And the most important.....COST. So much taken away and still asking for 12-15k makes this a nonstarter for me. With no mechs and a really easy layout, I predict prices will fall hard on this game as flippers get burned on the CE and LE buyers get bored, making that upfront NIB sting even more.

General:

:Drain heavy big time on the left outlane. If you end up getting unlimited kickback, the game becomes even easier. Right outlane as well. I maybe had two balls go sdtm - very very few.
:Gabby didn't register on the left, just the right.
:PF had no art along the posts and clear washers. Didn't see any damage yet but brand new.
:Flippers felt exactly the same as other JJPs. Don't be fooled by the hype machines telling you differently.

We deserve better for 12-15k. Maybe one day the full non home edition will be released with a layout that is fun, shots smooth but also has mechs and is based on TS1+2….
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I recommend listening to the latest eclectic gamers podcast for another really fair view on TS4. If you’re interested in hearing what non shills sound like, it’s these guys. No network needed of course. Dennis and Tony have a great show - I’ve been listening for a few months now.

https://eclecticgamerspodcast.wordpress.com/

Also - an interesting point brought up by those willing to just accept the ridiculous pricing…..they will just get that back when they sell - so who cares how much it is upfront right?

yeah right - good luck with that. The LE’s will drop like a brick and will be readily available at 10k or less in a year. CE market with 1k out there is already soft and will continue to weaken as folks try to flip but can’t. Jaws, BTTF, He-man - they’re all coming.

If you’re buying in now, just be prepared. No doubt, it’s a fine (simple, non complex mech) game if you can get over the fact it’s TS4, just not priced properly at all. Enjoy the podcast!

I did play the game - check out my feedback/impressions here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjp-toy-story/page/100#post-6991119

Best part about this game is it spotlights the real shills in this hobby. Good place to reference back if you want to see who’s telling you the truth and who just wants to sell you a game or justify why they spent way too much on a pinball they know isn’t worth 12-15k. I love Todd but even he’s going over board in some of the recent videos about this. I can tell distributors are starting to sweat what is essentially a cash grab by JJP. It’s all too bad b/c if it was priced right, it would be much more respected b/c it’s def far from being a bad game.

Nothing left to say. Game is way overpriced, choosing TS 4 was a huge disappointment and it literally has no mechanical toys but it did a great job spotlighting the shills in this hobby. Buy buy buy!

Or just wait and buy it for a big discount used bc it’s actually a fun game, just incredibly overpriced. CE sell off is going to be fun to watch when payment comes due.

I just hope JJP doesn’t Cromwell us again with their next title.

#nocornerscut

What a joke.

Oh the shills on this game crack me up. Their latest defense is that JJP did a good job squeezing out the flippers on this title by raising the price.

Wrong again.

What JJP showed us was what they could squeeze out from the sucker market - those that will buy anything regardless of what's actually in the game. Once those people were taken, the vast majority who aren't drinking the BUY BUY BUY kool aid said HELL no. Sorry but sold to distributors doesn't mean to customers and they can enjoy sitting on that stock.

Truth is - if this game was what the people wanted - meaning it was TS 1, 2 and/or 3 and actually packed with mechs ala old school JJP, the price would EASILY rise beyond 15k for CE. Don't believe me? Look at Godzilla LE. Selling at 16k and will likely continue to go up b/c it's awesome.

Market has spoken JJP. We won't let you cromwell us. I'm in on Godfather CE bc I LOVE that theme but if it comes out like this, I'm out again.

#nocornerscut.