Get ready for at least an $11k LE price tag on the next game now that GNR LE and Wonka LE is $11k. I bet the CE for the next JJP will be $14k...
(Topic ID: 290919)
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Toy Story 4 (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2022-
Toy Story 4 (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2022
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4 weeks later
Quoted from Matt1724:This could play right along with the a Toy Story speculation.
Buzz “Lightyear” prequel was just announced for release June 2022.[quoted image]
I see Disney replaced Tim Allen as the voice of Buzz Lightyear.
1 week later
Quoted from nicoy3k:Every single GNR has playfield issues. Those that don’t have them are lying or not looking close enough.
No Rufio, no.
4 months later
Quoted from manadams:Does your playfield have washers under the sling posts?
All of the most recent JJP’s do. Whatever combination of new posts + washers that JJP started installing on GNR’s in June / July of 2021 has worked. That same process appears to have been applied to the last Wonka run. Since then there’s been no widespread reports of playfield issues, have personally heard of none since those changes.
Why JJP refuses to remove artwork around their playfield posts is beyond bizarre at this point. That’s what Stern did and it resolved the same issue. JJP’s first two games, WOZ and Hobbit actually had artwork removed around what appears to be all posts. That trend then stopped with future games.
1 week later
2 weeks later
Whatever the new JJP game is I won’t be buying for at least 6 months due to JJP’s history with just about every title having early build playfield issues. Wasn’t worth the risk to buy early IMO at $7k and most definitely not at $11k+ lol.
Quoted from Noma2017:I have purchased NiB Wonka, Dialed In and Wizard of Oz. No regrets and ready for Toy Story!
Same here but just don't want to take the risk again with an early build JJP game. Some early build WOZ's had playfield issues, Hobbit playfields were fine (probably the best playfields JJP ever made), some early Dialed In's had chipping issues, playfield issues plagued some early build Pirates, some early Wonka's had playfield chipping / pooling, and some early GNR's had chipping / pooling as well.
Currently there's no pattern of JJP launching a game where the earliest builds haven't had playfield issues. Maybe everything will change with Toy Story but after seeing what has occurred with the past 5/6 titles...I'll wait 6 months.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Hammerhead:What of the rumours that there will be 500 Buzz CEs and 500 Woody CEs. Anyone heard anything more?
No, but here's a guess lol.
Launch
500 Buzz CE's
500 Woody CE's
10,000 LE's
2 years later
2500 Buzz Ultimate Limited Editions
2500 Woody Wild West Limited Editions
2025
Unlimited Toy Story 30th Anniversary Limited Edition (but with one of the main toys removed)
1 week later
Quoted from seenev:There are some economic indicators of a possible recession looming. If JJP sets the price high and then a recession kills the market, they're going to have to make an embarrassing price reduction to keep orders going.
Quoted from zermeno68:That is a valid point in the current times. Recession also means loss of jobs and many closure of businesses.
Let’s hope that does not come around, but yeah a valid point I failed to remember when I first commented on price.
Yeah, all pinball manufactures will be hurting at that point. The economy is still creating 400,000+ jobs every month (the latest as of April) and unemployment is still below 4%. A recession may or may not happen at this point, will have to see how things playout. Even if a recession does hit it may just be mild.
I think a recession is usually defined as a country having two consecutive quarters of of declining GDP. According to the BEA we've already had one quarter of declining GDP this year.
https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-first-quarter-2022-advance-estimate
From everything I've read, which is just speculation like most things with the economy, if there's a recession it will be mild and nothing like what we saw in 08 - 09. Job numbers are still up, and unemployment is low. The sky isn't falling, no point in jumping to conclusions yet. After 10+ years of growth a mild recession may even be seen as normal.
Quoted from zr11990:You would really buy another JJP game after the PF Fiasco that was GnR?
Yeah, bought a later build GNR LE and Wonka LE, no issues, amazing games. Wait at least 6 months for any initial issues to be worked out and resolved with later runs. At these prices buying early isn't worth it IMO unless you desperately want a CE.
2 weeks later
Quoted from JakePG:I heard the game after TS is Elton John, and Steve Ritchie is doing the voice of Elton John
All I can think of Steve saying is "I'm still standing better than I ever did" in his Black Knight voice.
Quoted from kapaun:As a dumb person new to buying what’s the best strategy if I’ve dragged my feet to this point. Get on distributors interest list or wait for SE or LE direct from JJP website?
If you want an LE I say wait 6 months for any early issues to be resolved. The last 4 JJP pins in a row have had some early build games affected by playfield issues but those issues were resolved in later builds.
Quoted from NashtyFunk:Retained value is important. If both are the same game essentially and spending an extra $3k upfront means I'll have an extra $9k in value in 3 years, who wouldnt make that same call.
Most people assume any pin will some day be sold, whether that's 1-20 years in the future. Same reason people are about resale value when buying a home they have no plans to sell. It's all part of the logic/emotion on a big purchase.
If CE prices come out at $14k - $15k though and at 1,000 games there's going to be far less room for value growth. GNR CE's are going for around $17k - $18k but those games game out at $12,500 NIB and 500 were made. $14k - $15k NIB with 1,000 games made is an entirely different story. Even at $14k - $15k with 1,000 games the CE should at least maintain that level of value.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:At that price point a Multimorphic with a couple of game modules starts to make sense... Which is why mine are coming in October.
With that said, I hope Toy Story is epic.
I hear ya there, NIB pricing was high, then crazy, and is now at insane levels. I'm buying a high end loaded virtual pin as my next "pin" that for me will replace everything from the pre LCD era (besides Ghostbusters which I'm keeping, favorite movie).
Quoted from paynemic:I heard directly from my distro that CEs were $15000. Don’t know if you heard reliable info otherwise.
Yeah, I'm thinking $15k CE, $12k - $12.5k LE. Crazy.
Quoted from Rick432:JJP should just make a single pin, the Super Deluxe Ultra Limited Edition, #1/1.
Charge $25M and be done with it.
It'll still flip at like $48m, but just let it go, man.
That is the rumored plan for the 100 Year Wizard of Oz anniversary edition. 1 of 1 and the monkey toy is back! Comes out in 2039, video applications start 2035.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Everyone should be considering the huge recession coming and not give into the FOMO on any pin. You can bet your bottom dollar, no matter the release, huge losses are coming in the pinball industry to all of us that purchased at extremely inflated prices. JJP selling any product at $12k and $15 is a fools game, no matter if its TS or not. People will be trying to dump them all at once at the next release and losing just like is/going to happen on GNR. That’s the problem with a small company only releasing 1 every 2 years. Resist FOMO, there will be plenty for sale after all the economic dust settles at much lower prices. With it looking like food is going to be hard to get, you won’t be able to eat TS, lol.
1. You hate JJP and bash them every chance you get so your post has little credibility
2. You didn't mention Stern at all being affected by your so called huge pending recession while they charge nearly $9k for premiums and $11k for LE's...this also proves point one.
Quoted from J85M:Crazy all these CEs sold out at distributors yet no one seems to know the actual total cost, if the price drops tomorrow and for arguments sake it’s 19k for a CE would people drop out?
How are CE's sold out with this so called huge recession incoming?! That's impossible!
Quoted from Thunderbird:Watched it, but it doesn’t show much and highlights how much is not there. Shows its pretty mechless. Maybe actual game play will reveal some hidden gems?
You were never going to buy it anyway and are just here trolling as you hate JJP. This type of behavior only happens in JJP release threads. Some people on here clearly can't stand JJP and have wanted them to fail for years which is sad. Meanwhile yourself and other Stern fanboys go nuts over Led Zeppelin which has nothing in it lol.
Quoted from rotordave:Shows how stupid the NIB market has got when 5 standup targets is now a “feature” in your $12,000 LE machine.
rd[quoted image]
Have you seen Stern's feature matrix for the past 10 years? "Super spinner with dual rotating action", "Ultra fast orbit loop".
Hey JJP haters it has a real kickback! Do you remember those instead of the fake software controlled ones?
Get ready Stern fanboys to eat your words once again when it comes to another JJP release. Code and gameplay will likely be great as with Pat's last two JJP pins. Don't judge a game based on pictures alone as any of these games are just a box of lights without code, music, sounds, etc.
Compared to Pat's last JJP game, Wonka, there doesn't appear to be nearly as many mechanical features. Wonka has the the entire Wonkavtor ball lock mech, 6 magnets under the playfield (plus others), the spinning Gobstopper, Gobstopper rotating mech, Wonkavision LCD, and a kickback.
With Toy Story, which is more expensive, I'm seeing a kickback, the large LCD toy, spinning disk, pop up ramp, and pop up figure. That seems to be it in terms of physical mechs? I sure hope there's some magnets there under the playfield which is something Pat has done with his past two JJP titles. I was hoping we would have seen at least one mech that was on the larger scale.
Need to wait and see for proper gameplay video. The ruleset sounds very deep with is great to hear. 12 main modes at least being the carnival modes.
Quoted from Doctor6:I'm unsure why you keep harping on the fact it has a kick back. Like, talk about a feature that normally wouldn't be praised. It's a just a coil. No more exciting than an auto launcher.
I get an impression they had a substantially limited bom on this game, more so than any other. I was really hoping if Pat were to recycle any if his old stuff, it would have been Rudy but with Woody.
To me, this is the led zeplin pro of the jersey jack games.
If a kickback is just a coil then why does Stern refuse to put them into nearly all of their latest games and instead use a fake software auto save from the shooter lane? It's because its cheaper and is a cost cutting move. Seeing a physical kickback is a nice touch.
Quoted from Doctor6:You're talking to a guy that wants us to stop using pop bumpers and put that money elsewhere. Kickbacks are neat, but not something worth calling it a "feature" all of the sudden, as if it were a toy.
If Stern is listing a spinner of all things as a "Spinner with dual ultra action mechanical movement" then yes something that uses an actual coil to interact with the ball is sure as hell a feature lol.
Quoted from insight75:Lots of new posts....just woke up....what did I miss fellas?
People are ready to spend their money on Back to the Future trilogy pinball.
In terms of mechanical features Wonka comes across as having far more that also makes it feel like a world under glass. The large Wonkavator physical ball lock mech, the large spinning Gobstopper, the rotating Gobstopper toy, 6 magnets under the playfield, subway, the Wonkavision mini LCD (goes with something from the movie), and a physical kickback.
Quoted from RichieWrench:WAIT......
We really did land on the Moon???.
In terms of mechanical features that also give the game a world under glass feeling I'm so far more impressed by those in my Turtles Premium that I paid NIB $7,500 for over Toy Story 4 for $12k+. The Turtles van with a physical ball lock that opens up, the spinning pizza disk with magnet, the mechanical glider that interacts with the lockdown bar button, and the moving Krang toy. All of those are integrated with the theme better, and are more complex then anything I'm seeing in Toy Story 4.
These are huge to have in the game. If only the game was called Toy Story and Toy Story 4 
Naming the game after the 4th title of such a big franchise seems odd. This would be like Hobbit being called Hobbit: Battle of the 5 Armies...
• Custom Voice Narration by Tim Allen (Buzz Lightyear)
• Pinball Version of “You’ve Got a Friend in Me” by Randy Newman
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Toy Story 4?!!
It's The Last Jedi of Toy Story. Tough to swallow.
[quoted image]
Not really, not even close.
Screenshot 2022-06-14 104610 (resized).jpg
Screenshot 2022-06-14 104712 (resized).jpg
Up until Toy Story 4 all JJP mini LCD's were actually intergrated into something that made sense from the theme. What the heck is that giant tablet from Toy Story, I mean Toy Story 4?
WOZ: Used in crystal ball
Hobbit: The Hobbit book
Dialed In: Phone
Pirates: Compass on the apron
Wonka: Wonkavision
GNR: Stage screen
Toy Story 4: ?
Quoted from Palmer:Pretty sure each carnival game has instructions (ie shots) on how to play them. So it's actually a good integration but man is that thing huuuuuge.
There's a large 27" backbox LCD on the game, one would think they could use that for rules explanation and then put a larger mechanical toy in the back left but nope...would probably cost more money, screen cheaper.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Should’ve been an Etch-a-Sketch.
Great idea! That would have been perfect for a general Toy Story pin.
Quoted from Rarehero:Cheaper to just take them to the Toy Story area at Disneyland.
Here's the crazy thing, Toy Story at Disney World is called Toy Story Land. Why couldn't this game be called Toy Story Pinball then? None of the rides are named "Toy Story 4 Coaster" or something like that. It's so odd seeing that "4" up there in the games title and having everything restricted to the 4th film. That along with the ugly 10" screen instead of an actual main mechanical toy = I'm out.
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/destinations/hollywood-studios/toy-story-land/
Quoted from MikeS:I'm intrigued by the individually controlled Benson pop up posts. Do we know what the purpose of these are? They don't block the ramp, do they double as a switch and turn into targets basically or are they just a post that blocks the captive ball and that switch on the left side of the right orbit? they are probably the biggest innovation in the game since I don't remember seeing anything like them before.
The pop up posts seem as a way to prevent crazy air balls from the pop up ramp versus an actual gameplay feature? Without them some crazy shot angles could occur resulting in other areas of the game being hit by the ball.
NGG does something similar but the posts are stationary as the entire ramp lifts.
Quoted from Mando:“Individually controlled” by who ? The player ?
The pop up posts look like a way to prevent crazy airballs that could otherwise damage the game. NGG used posts next to its rising ramp to likely prevent the same issue. Without the pop up posts on TS4 a player could possibly hit the ramp at a certain angle to send it right into the screen.
Quoted from J85M:Could I politely ask what the thought process was to have a 10” display to play a digital pinball layout in a physical pin? It’s abit of a head scratcher so I’m genuinely curious and interested to know, was there no other video mode ideas?
Personally I say its cheaper to put a 10" display in that area instead of a larger mechanical mech. Take the entire Wonkavator ball lock mech in Wonka and replace it with a 10" screen. Which would be cheaper to put in the game? The screen. Which is more like pinball? The actual mech. Which would pinball players prefer? The mech. I'm not against mini LCD displays in pinball machines but this is a bit ridiculous considering there's a 27" backbox LCD...
Quoted from PinStalker:Great..... now Stern is watching and thinking "Oh look, a cut down, no mech game can sell for 15K no problem".....
[Gary runs to the back to pull every mech out of Bond and Jaws]
August Cornerstone release hosted by Gomez: "Say hello to my LE friend...... 18K"
That's probably going to happen if Stern ever makes Back to the Future. 88 Super LE's at $20k or something.
It was said on the video that the main toy is the pop up ramp...The main toy on a $12k - $15k pinball machine is a 2"x2" plastic pop up ramp?! Wow.
The more I read and hear about the ruleset the more I like that part of the game. However, it's the game being based only off the 4th film, having 4 in the title, and the giant tablet versus more mechanical toys that is preventing from moving forward with a purchase at this time.
Quoted from Medisinyl:Saw some questioning what the figures are from.
Seems to be cake toppers.
[quoted image]
My goodness, licensed Disney cake toppers on a $12k - $15k pinball machine? Well, at least there's a 10" LCD on the game right instead of a large main mechanical toy?
Quoted from snaroff:JJP already has the largest LCD in the business that would be capable of hosting a video mode. Adding another iPad sized LCD with the wacky orientation to make it "fly" is really pathetic. Just poor taste...likely driven by having more programming resources than mechanical engineering resources. JJP graphics on the large LCD is usually pretty impressive. I want more kinetic, mechanical PINBALL and less video game.
This! The 10" display is taking up space in the back 3rd of the playfield for what is traditionally reserved for a mechanical toy (or two, or 3). Everything on that display could have been replicated on the main 27" display. Sadly it's likely far cheaper to put a 10" display in a game versus a large custom pinball mech. That shouldn't occur though at these insane prices.
The entire back 3rd of the game is void of any mechanical toys which is bizarre to see in a pinball machine that is $12k+ (it's bizarre to see in a Stern Pro at $7k). This may be a first for the modern era.
Quoted from bgwilly31:This CE outside of maybe DI. Literally has the least amount of features. Its close with Wonka But Wonka has the Super Physical Ball lock mech. This has zero gameplay changes.
Wonka LE / CE has the following primary mechs. There's not only more of them as a whole but they are also significantly more mechanical and substantial compared to those in Toy Story. The toy offering on Toy Story just feels weak by comparison. Hell all of the main mechs in Toy Story are pop up devices...
1. Spinning gobstopper
2. Rotating gobstopper hole
3. Wonkavision
4. Wonkavator super physical ball lock
5. Kickback
6. 6 magnets under the playfield (not counting the others which stop / divert the ball
7. Subway
Toy Story LE / CE
1. Popup jump target
2. Popup posts
3. Popup troll mech
4. Kickback
5. iPad, I mean 10" LCD
Quoted from PinMonk:Let's be fair here.
Wonka
1. Spinning gobstopper
2. Rotating gobstopper hole
3. Wonkavision
4. Wonkavator super physical ball lock
5. Kickback
6. 6 magnets under the playfield (not counting the others which stop / divert the ball
7. Subway
Toy Story LE / CE
1. Spinning disc
2. 10" LCD
3. Physical ball lock
4. Kickback
5. Popup jump target w/popup posts
7. Popup troll mech
8. Hot Rails
9. Newton ball
Subway doesn't do anything but has a strong effect on the game experience, so I'm also including the hot rails on Toy story. And the 10" LCD is like 3 Wonkavisions, right? There's plenty in the machine. We'll see how it plays...
There's also a Newton ball in Wonka, there's other magnets to add and other minor features. The toys in Toy Story are weak by comparison.
Also, 99% of Pinsiders could care less that there's a 10" screen that is 3x the size of Wonka's (maybe 2x). My goodness what a waste of space. I rather have the large Wonkavator physical ball lock then an ugly 10" LCD in a pinball machine of all things.
Quoted from clearstar:Watch the video again. Toy Story has magnets too.
Will re-watch, thank you.
Quoted from PinMonk:Ok. It was your list, not mine. I fixed your list and added the Newton ball to Wonka.
The screen does seem extra large, but I'll reserve judgment until I see how it's integrated into gameplay. The GnR stage screen is fantastic when playing.
I explained what I don't like about this from the videos so far, but we'll see what happens when I get my hands on it.
Good points. Honestly if money and space were no issue I would be buying every single JJP and Stern. None of today's modern games are really bad, ok maybe Thunderbirds lol. It's just these prices have become so hard to stomach and the higher they go the more critical potential customers are as we all want value for the money we are spending.
I could see spending $12k - $15k on Toy Story if it had a large primary mech instead of the 10" LCD but that is just me. LCD toys are cool but I think the one in Toy Story comes across as a bit to large and one that takes up valuable space for what otherwise could have been a larger mechanical toy.
Who knows I may end up with one of these one day, have bought every other JJP pin and still have 4 which I never plant to sell.
Quoted from iceman44:Yeah you know you are getting one Panzer! Keep fighting the good fight though.
Lol yeah I'll probably get one at some point, may have to be used HUO this time around. I will always argue for more mechanical toys in games at these insane prices.
Quoted from explosiveegg:Just for comparison sake. Using coils as they tend to be a good indicator on cost.
GZ Premium Mechs:
Total Coils 10:
3 flippers
2 slingshots
1 autoplunger
1 Bridge coil
1 VUK
1 Ball lock VUK
1 pop bumper
Toy Story:
Total Coils 24 :
4 pop bumpers
3 flippers
2 slings
2 autoplunger + kickback
3 pop up ramp shot and individual controlled posts
1 pop up target
1 vuk
1 saucer
2 Controlled Drop target
2 up posts
3+ diverters
I think you get similar results if you compare other cost like RGBs, playfield glass, display, motors, gimmicks, etc.
I personally don't think the bill of materials comes close between a JJP LE and Stern Premium.
That is not to say that more mechs means a better game. It is amazing how full Stern's games feel when they're in fact quite barren in side by side comparison.
As a side note, I probably missed a coil or two on each count.
The one issue with a coil count comparison alone is that it doesn’t account for motorized mechs which from what I’m seeing Toy Story has none. Motorized mechs are typically among the most substantial items in games. Motorized mechs are almost always custom mechs that add value to a game. Take Smaug in Hobbit for example, the monkey mech in WOZ, or the moving ship in Pirates. Toy Story doesn’t have anything like that.
Godzilla has the motorized moving building with a moving gate on top of the building as a ball lock, the motorized moving ramp that when activated opens a shot to another mech with a magnet on it. Those items along with the vertical exposed magnet that we haven’t seen in a game before are substantial and in my opinion far more interactive then a vast majority of coil based mechs.
Would you rather have 4 pop bumpers or a motorized moving building with a motorized ball lock on top of it? I’ll take the building any day.
What it comes down to for me if that I need more then a pop up ramp as the main mech in a game that costs $12k+. That’s the main mech in the game, even Pat said so.
In Toy Story besides the spinning disk there are no larger motorized custom mechs, there are no mini playfields and instead there’s just a small coil based mech as the main toy. I’m not seeing anywhere close to enough value in this game to justify a $12k+ purchase.
Quoted from JohnTTwo:CE spots down to 1,500.00
Halloween did not even drop this quick
Have any CE spots been sold yet? If so how much.
It will be refreshing to see a the first dealer post up a machine at MSRP.
Can’t forget the $1,000 transfer fee either!
A couple people have said there are magnets under the playfield similar to Wonka (6 in that game under the playfield) that interact with the ball. Is this true? I see no reference to them as a feature.
Quoted from PtownPin:Maybe? I think JJP replaced the magnets with that spinner, which is pretty cool. Probably a similar design to what JJP wanted to use on POTC, but decided against it.
Looks to be a standard spinning disk that moves both ways versus the original triple disk design in Pirates (wish that would come back). That's a bummer about no magnets under the center area of the playfield.
Quoted from Xelz:The kicker is, aside from the larger backbox monitor and "complimentary" hot rails, this machine doesn't have much going for it beyond a typical Stern premium. In fact, you could argue that Godzilla Prem has more features than TS4.
So if JJP can sell a boatload of Stern-level TS4's at $12K a pop, why wouldn't Stern start selling their premium pins at the same price point?
Speaking from the marketing perspective rather than as a consumer, the question isn't whether TS4 is priced too high, it's whether Stern has been pricing too low.
Stern premiums are not equivalent to JJP LE’s. With that being said I agree with you about Godzilla premium / LE having more in it then Toy Story models. In terms of mechanical features Toy Story is JJP's weakest game to date IMO.
JJP LE = Stern LE
JJP CE = Stern Super LE, Signature Editions, etc.
Quoted from beltking:The ce on eBay sold for $20600! Plus tax. Sure eBay took a lot of it.
Assuming the sale is legit then after Ebay fee's, fee's from having to claim income on profits (Ebay's now sends a tax form), and having to give JJP a $1,000 transfer fee's the seller may have broke even.
Quoted from iceman44:Over the last 18 months you think Gas, housing, food, lumber, other commodities etc have only risen 8.6%?
That measures the “rate of change”.
Put your house in zillow and check your zestimate. Think it only went up 8.6% over that period of time?
That’s how inflation works
I understand where you are coming from and why you don’t get it though.
Successful companies, with fortress balance sheets, free cash flow have pricing power to pass along the increases. Many don’t. Crypto companies are failing and laying off people right and left. Coinbase example. Netflix. Tesla. On and on
About to find out whether or not JJP has “pricing power”
The only thing I've seen increase by 8% is a bag of damn ice lol. Everything else is way up like you said.
Quoted from iceman44:It might be totally different in 6-12 months. Probably will be unfortunately in some respects. Lotta job loss coming.
Either way, love it or hate this game, it’s a great part of this hobby to be able to express yourself and take a bit of a break from the real world when you get a new game dropping.
Gotta accept some realities in today’s world though.
I’m gonna have fun with it.
What's interesting is that the economy is still adding a lot of jobs (nearly 400k in May) and unemployment is still below 4%. A recession is likely coming, or we are likely already in one, but it may very well just be mild as being predicted by a number of economists. This next recession isn't going to be anything like what we saw in 08 - 09.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Please point me to those sales facts and figures of successful sell out, you mentioned you’re looking at from JJP. I can’t find them published anywhere. From the distributors here in the states, there are plenty spots available for purchase still.
Here you go. Jack reported that JJP received $30 million in TS4 orders on day 1. It’s important to note though that a majority of the orders are based off deposits versus paid in full games.
Quoted from galore2112:In a way it’s difficult to wrap my head around the thought that I’m looking at $12000+ here.
[quoted image]
Yup, the value just isn't there which is sad to see as JJP to me has always meant loaded pins. The game does look like fun and if money was no issue I would buy one. If the theme had been based around Toy Story in general with the same features it would have been a bit easier to stomach.
I just can't see spending $12k+ on a pin that has no mechanical devices in the back 1/3 of the playfield. My other 4 JJP pins, WOZ, Wonka, Hobbit, and GNR all have at least 1 larger mech in the rear playfield while TS has 0. I would much rather have a mini playfield in the upper left corner versus a 10" iPad, take that thing out along with the off the shelf figures and the game looks extremely bare.
The back 1/3 of the playfield just looks bare with the large plastic hole for the jump ramp and the 10" screen looking out of place.
Quoted from Vespula:Couple highlights.. top post with 35 upvotes currently.
Irony. Turned out to be JJP listening and again shows they know what the people wanted with the TS cake icing topper character set from Amazon for $26.95
Mechs disappointingly didn't pan out but... Maybe the GnR by Disney was closer to truth..
Collect all the band members, er, I mean characters and get to the concert, er, I mean carnival. Then Hit the applause, er, I mean ramp jackpot.
Why some people keep saying GNR has no mechs is bizarre. There's a huge upper playfield in GNR LE / CE (shaped like a guitar neck) with a flipper for two unique shots, VUK to habitrails acting as a metal guitar neck, and a 6 physical ball lock that features two moving up posts in the shape of bullets. That's a lot right there.
There's also the moving stage lights which we haven't seen before, a magnet near the top lanes, mini stage LCD, the record disk, hot rails and ramp divertor.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Really good assessment. Thanks for your review and opinion! It’s plain to see what you’re saying is true.
There's multiple times in gameplay videos where something is being displayed on the 10" LCD but nothing in the center of the main 27" LCD (for seconds at a time) and then other times where the same information is basically duplicated. I don't understand the choice to use such a large LCD on the playfield other then it was cheaper versus putting a mini playfield or larger mech in that area.
If the main reason to use a 10" LCD on the playfield is for the mini tiki virtual pinball mini game then that's just odd. At least the mini pinball game in Family Guy is actually mechanical, that would have made far more sense here. Just seems like a cost cutting move IMO.
Quoted from Mando:I mean people could just buy a pinsight HDD
HTTPS://www.cheapdrainz.com
Yup! TS4 could have had one of those on the apron similar to Pirates. That along with a 10" mini mechanical pinball machine where the screen current is, Family Guy 2.0 mini pinball with more features, would have been awesome. Now that's the type of game I would have expected to see from JJP and one worth the $12k+ price tag.
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:So... you'd all prefer a single toy at the back of the playfield rather than a screen that offers 100 more gameplay options, with near endless opportunity for new ideas and updates long into the future?
Time to move on old-timer. The future is knocking on your door.
As most have already said, that screen should've been an Etch-a-Sketch, or a rip off version, something like Draw-a-Score. It needed to be dressed up as a TOY!!! The stunt biker is very obviously the Evel Knieval toy I had as a kid. So just make up a new version of Etch-a-Sketch, with fake twisty buttons on it.
The fact that it looks like a first generation I-Pad is a terrible design choice.
There's already a 27" LCD in the backbox for 100's of possibilities! Yes myself and many others would have preferred a larger mechanical toy in that area versus a 10" iPad. This is $12k+ for what is supposed to be a mechanical pinball machine, another LCD screen is anything but mechanical. Typically mini LCD screens compliment a game as a small feature versus being a primary feature. I'm in the process of buying a full size virtual pinball, that's fine for that purpose as it's supposed to be digital, real pinball should be more mechanical.
The pinball community would have gone nuts in a good way if that 10" screen was instead a 10" mechanical mini pinball machine, Family Guy mini pinball 2.0. That or a different custom mechanical mech would have been more expensive so the reason is pretty clear why an LCD screen is being used in that area...it's cheaper.
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:So... you'd all prefer a single toy at the back of the playfield rather than a screen that offers 100 more gameplay options, with near endless opportunity for new ideas and updates long into the future?
Time to move on old-timer. The future is knocking on your door.
As most have already said, that screen should've been an Etch-a-Sketch, or a rip off version, something like Draw-a-Score. It needed to be dressed up as a TOY!!! The stunt biker is very obviously the Evel Knieval toy I had as a kid. So just make up a new version of Etch-a-Sketch, with fake twisty buttons on it.
The fact that it looks like a first generation I-Pad is a terrible design choice.
How is this offering 100 more gameplay options with endless opportunities? The information on the 10" LCD could clearly be displayed on the main 27" LCD.
Kaneda brought up a good point today "Nothing that divisive is good" and that's what is sadly happening here with Toy Story 4. This is the opposite to the reaction that Godzilla and Guns N Roses received for example.
Two things are causing this divisiveness, the choice to call the game Toy Story 4 along with restricting assets to just the 4th film and a lack of mechanical features as well as molds on a $12k - $15k pinball machine.
Quoted from Doctor6:Im actually surprised that we cant see how simple this is to fix. Why cant we just add more pop bumpers to it? Im shocked that pat "pop bumper" lawlor didn't cram them in those blank spots. [quoted image]
Besides having more mechanical features in Wonka and Dialed In both of those games also feature multiple magnets under the playfield in similar locations (mostly middle) that interact with the ball. In Toy Story 4 it's just empty space and a 10" screen instead of a larger mech all for more money.
Quoted from RobbyIRL5:there have been 2 updates since it was released a week ago, and one of them had a pretty big change (benson post mode).
The Benson posts keep being touted as some crazy interactive feature when in reality they seem designed to prevent airballs from off centered pop up ramp shots. NGG has similar posts on each side of its pop up ramp.
The most disappointing thing about Toy Story 4 code is the complete lack of mini wizard modes. There’s no way I’m spending $12k+ on a pin without at least 1 mini wizard mode. Every JJP pin has contained at least one mini wizard mode until Toy Story 4.
Quoted from zermeno68:Exactly this. I've mentioned this before the percentage lost on NIB compared to buying gaming console is much lower (even though cost is much higher).
Perhaps some cannot stomach losing $1-3K on a NIB machine. It would suck for me as well, but when it comes with NIB that is a risk many have to remember.
I'm curios how NIB prices will be in 1-2 years with Stern, Spooky, etc... (Not JJP as we already see they are steadily increasing price until TS4!!!).
Toy Story 4 LE's are going to be selling for $10k within 6 months - a year with CE prices holding at $15k versus increasing IMO. With each price increase the amount people are willing to pay on the secondary market decreases. We've already seen this with a majority of Stern premiums as prices have approached $9k. How many people want to travel to someone's house with $10k+ in cash? That's only going to occur for select games and one's that are rarer then basically an unlimited number of Toy Story 4 LE's.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Thunderbird:Lol, TS4 sales are not a smashing success, because they are not sold through to consumers. Only distributors have been stuck with them. They’re going to have them collecting dust for a long time. Wouldn’t have been the case if JJP hadn’t gotten so greedy, even though it’s basically an empty game. Most people feel TS4 is a $6k game tops, not double.
Who in the world is saying that TS4 is a $6k game tops?! There are no $6K NIB games in 2022, not even close. From what I've gathered people are saying $10k LE / $12K CE as the desired price point considering the features (well lack of) in the game.
Quoted from Xelz:I finally had a chance to try TS4 at a local pinball museum. My first impression isn't all that different from what others generally say: it plays fine, shots are smooth, but nothing really stood out on the playfield that made it special other than the theme. The playfield monitor was washed out and difficult to read. I'm guessing it was the angle because the playfield monitors in GNR and Star Wars both looked fine.
Digital assets are incredible, though. JP de Win is the Zombie Yeti of pinball digital art. I can't really comment on the sounds as the place was too loud to make out much of anything; the ringing bell was the only sound that I could hear clearly and consistently. (Which may be why JJP went that direction with their sound design, it does stand out in a loud location.)
For comparison, this was also my first opportunity to get hands-on play with Godzilla, Dialed In, and Wonka. Godzilla was adjacent to TS4, and I kept hopping back and forth between them. For someone at my horribly low skill level, the shots I was hitting on Godzilla felt far more interesting and satisfying.
Dialed In was a very positive surprise. Now I understand why fans are so dang loyal to that machine. I'd try to buy one if I had room for a larger collection.
Glad you got to play it. The animations are great like you said. That ringing bell sound from the spinner can definitely get annoying after a while.
What's odd and a bit sad is that one of the main features of the 10" LCD is for Tiki Pinball yet it plays terribly. It reminds of poor quality 60hz virtual pinball running on lower end hardware. Tiki Pinball is supposed to be the flagship mode for the mini LCD but it's a laggy mess IMO.
Quoted from reffob:I hope that's not true, Joe cannot be that clueless or shameless. I've played a ton of virtual pinball and it's not even in the same universe of lag as Tiki pinball. I'm one of the crazy people who really like TS4 but there is no excuse for that lag. And if Joe really did say that then hey Joe can you please delete the part of the code that adds the crappy lag? Thanks
Yeah hope that's not the case either. Many high end virtual pins now offer 120hz displays that along with the powerful enough PC hardware pretty much eliminate any sense of lag or loss of frames per second. Tiki Party pinball not only has bad flipper lag but the motion of the gameplay itself comes across as running below 30fps.
Quoted from branlon8:that‘s kind of the elephant in the room isn‘t it? Owning and playing pinball machines is a lot of fun, but is it 10, 12 or 15K fun? That’s an awful lot of fun to be expecting. In the last few years I just haven‘t seen anything to say yes to. Or maybe I‘ve just been seduced by Visual Pinball. I think Toy Story was the easiest new pin ever to say no to.
Good points. I’m actually going with a high end 120hz 4K virtual pinball machine as my next “pin”. The content being put out lately for Visual Pinball is crazy good. Have you seen the new Stern Iron Maiden by VP Workshop? Damn does it look incredible. With the right hardware Visual Pinball is getting pretty darn close to the real deal in 2022.
Quoted from snaroff:Not shocking at all. I wouldn't expect JJP's in house programmers to compete with programming teams focused on virtual pinball for many years. Programming is hard, and tuning the virtual physics to feel real takes experience and iteration. Nevertheless, if JJP can't offer a competitive experience in a 12-15k game, they shouldn't even try!
Yup. It's as if a mini mechanical pinball machine would have been a far better choice versus a 10" LCD in a $12k - $15k pin. A real mini mechanical Tiki Party pinball machine toy would have been great to have in the game.
I just don't get this game. A Gabby Gabby pop up bash target, a back 1/3 of the game void of any mechanical toys, Forky standup targets, a laggy virtual pinball mini game...all for $12k- $15k? Easy pass. This game is the complete opposite of what I'm used to from JJP. It's a fun game, IMO it's just not worth anywhere close to the price tag.
1 week later
Quoted from PinMonk:They're not "set it and forget it" like many Stern Pros, but if you do basic maintenance on them and keep them clean/waxed, the problems that would take them down are minimal. We had every JJP LE on route from WoZ to jjPotC and WoZ was the only one ever down completely for any length of time due to light board issues (before I completed my JJP 1.x trial to become a Jedi at fixing them). jjPotC, especially was a monster earner on the route. Top of the earnings the whole time it was out, even with a $1.50 vend. I met one group that regularly drove 90 minutes one way from Chico just to play it (the other two A+ pins we had at that location were cherry on top for them).
The whole "Stern Pro's are more reliable then JJP's" type comments always get me. Yes, a LZ Pro is more reliable then a JJP as there's barely anything in it that moves, same thing for a majority of Stern Pro's lol. The game has changed though with Toy Story 4, now it has far less things that move in it as well!
Quoted from DiabloRush:The Hobbit I purchased off-route had 24,000 plays. It was the top earner for nearly 3 years in the large arcade I bought it from. It cleaned up beautifully, and looks nearly new after all that time. Hence, my experience is that it was very well built and held up quite well. As for "snooze-fest", that's a personal opinion. I find it a wonderful title and consider it one of the most underrated pins I've ever bought. Closest thing to an RPG in pinball, even better than AIQ in that regard.[quoted image][quoted image]
Agree! Hobbit is an incredible pin, one of JJP's best and we likely will never see anything like it again. The code is so insanely deep and offers one of the best objective based rulesets in pinball. The use of licensed assets and amount of them is astounding. Hobbit will never leave my collection. Just glad to finally see the game getting its due over these past few years.
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