The designer, graphic artists and modelers have done a great job. The rules will be the big decider. That is always the weakness with jjp.

Man, the Stern vs. JJP camps here are worse than the PlayStation vs. Xbox console wars.

Look, no one can really review TS4 (or any pin IMHO) until they get at least 500 games on it. (FWIW, I won’t post a review until I play 1,000+ games.)

SDTM didn’t even call their video a review, they rightfully labeled it a first impressions. Obviously we can all form opinions and hypotheses because we need something to inform a purchase decision. But almost no one outside of JJP has put the time into TS4 to truly claim this is a good or bad pin yet, even subjectively.

Also, value is entirely subjective. Econ 101: there is a demand curve. That curve represents the variety of prices that different people would be willing to pay for a product across the population. Some would be willing to pay a lot more, others a lot less.

+1

Actually, I like the rules on GNR, but the scoring is ridiculously out of whack with the risk/reward for many modes. And none of my friends can follow the rules for everything going on in the pin because it is a bit complicated.

Mando taught me the value of a clear rule set. I’m not enamored with the playfield, but it’s so easy to follow my mode progress and explain the objectives to new players. Plus the co-op feature is the reason it’ll have a long life in my gameroom.

Come to think of it, incorporating co-op would’ve been the perfect opportunity for JJP to really brand TS4 as an ideal home pin for the family.

Is it really the Stern fanboys getting their licks in on an easy target or collectors in general that know it's a subpar offering for a record high price increase compared to what JJP has done in past games?

I guess only here can you suggest that people play a game before judging it and get called a “JJP account” lol. So here’s the deal, I buy nearly game that comes out, from JJP and Stern, as noted in my collection. I like the products of both companies and for those that know me, my favorites have been for some time now, Wonka and either GZ/JP, one of each brand.

So now we have a bunch of grown adult males (I’m assuming) arguing over a game because of “toys”, I’d say that the majority the people doing the hating have either not played it (because it plays amazing and if you’re into pinball to play and not stare at it, I think it would be hard to argue this), or have some pre-existing reason to hate it. It’s part 4, initially this bugged me too (pre-school theme), but then guess what, Toy Story 1-3 are kids movies too (neither of which had been part of my life since my kids watched them 10 years ago!). Tim Allen’s significant involvement (after he got booted from the new “woke” Lightyear) is enough for me, and he’s the main voice of the game.

The iPad doesn’t get in the way, it covers the top of a busy U-Turn ramp (unlike the static Grogu on Mando), and the Tiki game/multiball is a great mode. The code in this game is the gem, and the Lawlor layout is, a Lawlor layout. Even the little flipper (which in my opinion sucks on TAF, IM, and anywhere else they exist) is actually a good/easy shot (with the layout).

You folks who’ve made you’re mind without playing, if you enjoy playing pinball and like the feel of a TAF, TZ, DI, Wonka, etc, you’re missing out and the more people that play this, will be more evident. If you like Hobbit and WOZ (wow lots of toys) over the games I’ve mentioned above, maybe this isn’t for you (other than it’s pretty easy).

What’s a little annoying is that like most first run JJP’s, it’s required some tuning (which I think I’ve got solved!). Another detractor for good players is that the ball times I think are very long and it’s pretty easy (but so far the code has kept it from getting boring for me). But for most people that makes it fun, especially kids we’re trying to get into the next generation of the hobby so it doesn’t die with the boomers!

My humble opinion

Both.

They did the exact same thing with GNR. I Love their videos but its getting rather obvious what’s going on.

Played it last night. I thought it was fine and enjoyable. If, it was priced more in line with in the pro-premium of Sterns prices, they would have more buyers. IMHO.

LOL no one here plays their games that much, except Derek.

Now? Is this new?

That really made me lol
So I have to put about 40 hours of gameplay on a machine before I have a right to review it....
Strongly disagree. I can tell if I like a game after just a few plays, because I know what I like

I think 500 games is a little extreme, but there is something to playing it awhile before reviewing. I bought Twilight Zone based on it being rated so high, never enjoyed (or understood) it in location, glad I did as it’s a favorite. Same with Deadpool LE, bought it because everybody said it was good. Pretty vanilla and was ready to sell before I played it for 2weeks straight and actually learned the rules beyond the surface (that multiplier rebound shot is awesome), and now it’s one of my favs. On the other end is the honeymoon period. When I got Hobbit I thought it was awesome, then it got boring as hell after 30 games.

Haha I can remember being of some forums back in the days for PS3 and Xbox 360. It was very ugly and often very entertaining.

Though it's definitely fun to mess with people I don't agree with; I've come to accept that it's a good thing that all game consoles and all pinball machines aren't made specifically to my tastes. It boggles my mind that people still consider WOZ to be a good playing pinball machine, on the other hand I love my LZ. I literally hate DI and love WPT. I dislike almost all System 11 games, but love some of the Gottlieb games from that era. I hate Family Guy and love Shrek. Dislike Kiss and love Rush. There is no right and wrong, just opinions.

I'll also state that the best video pinball or tablet pinball is less fun than the worst real pinball machine. So once again my mind is boggled hearing people talk about the upper playfield in TS4 being a video pinball without 100% agreement that it's an atrocity!

Zach and Greg, the new My Pillow guys

Quit taking advantage of the poor dumb newbies!

I’m taking a wild guess here.I bet I can safely say you have nothing positive to say about JJP games and rave reveiws for Stern games right?
You have been going on for days here and you just keep coming up with negatives.I love how you compare JJP games from the past as being better.You had nothing good to say about them either at the time!You are simply a fanboy.
I have admitted to rooting for Jack from the beginning but I do not go to Stern threads to just talk shit like you do here. Just quit already

Nothing will change the TS4 theme, so complain about it once to blow off steam and get it out of your system. There is no TS pin option, only TS4 pin. Go to a location with game and change $50 into ones and have fun. That should cover 99% of people. If you like it and want to buy one, only then consider price. The cost of entry into the TS4 world is $12.4k (incl delivery) The price you can expect to sell it when you are finished is roughly $1k-$2k less. If you want to buy and play it at home for a year and then expect to sell it, then your cost has been … $1k-$2k. Even though the price to pay for nib is high, the asset holds its value well. Now maybe you like all the above but don’t want to pay $12.4k. Then you will be the likely buyer of huo game at a lower entry point. You will buy and play it until you decide to keep or sell.

Maybe he meant to say 50 games?

You should click on his games icon and it will save you from making wild claims that are wrong.

Agreed...something like “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”

I watched their videos and the first few minutes of TS4 'impressions' was all about how they had to be silent for a while about what JJP had prior divulged to them.

Obvious translation = Follow the legal stipulations in the infomercial contract or this won't be fun anymore.

I’m glad your here to police comments.My post was meant for Thunderbird!

That remains to be seen.

Because the game itself is incredibly fun to play. TS4 doesn't appear to be nearly as fun or engaging.

Let's be honest here, it's not the "lack of toys" on this one, it's the Lack of toys FOR THE PRICE" and "Lack of toys FOR A JJP PIN".

Have you seen a disney arcade this century? It’s not pretty

Paging Led Zeppelin….

Delete

dialed in got hit pretty hard on release. Everyone thought it was a game about a cell phone, mom jeans and how out of touch pat lawlor was. How the tide has turned on that one.

For those of you that have played TS4, are there any satisfying difficult shots? Is there good flow on the ramps? At this time in pinball, designers need to give us something to write home about!

Game play videos popping up all over.
Game sounds awesome and shots look good.

Hardy the self promoter wearing his own Hardy shirt and hat.

What’s his motivation? Sell the controversy and hate to boost his you tube subs. Hasn’t even played the game.

Is it worth the money? Neither is that line of pins behind him sitting in that ridiculous looking gamer chair

Talk about flimflam blow hard sales guy! Lol

It’s so true. I just recently got Deadpool and Godzilla LE and I paid Toy Story CE plus prices. I love them both but I could certainly whine about a bunch of stuff. Why couldn’t they get the Deadpool movie??? Why no Ryan Reynolds voice over? Those are cheap figurines.

Why is the Godzilla toy green??? Not of the time period at all. Why did they choose those movies? Wish they had went with other movies. Why aren’t there any lengthy movie cut scenes? The Kaiju/power up/ally sign looks so cheap. Thank goodness there is a neon mod for that.

I actually love both games but the point is it’s so easy to whine about a game before playing. I also want to try Jurassic Park because of the good reviews and word of mouth. But does it have the original cast? Did they get Jeff Goldblum for original callouts??? Oh they didn’t? Why not? Why no movie scenes from the original? Why did Stern cheap out? Could they not afford it????

Is it possible that the 12 carnival games on the playfield screen are actually fun and add to the carnival theme?

I’m also a Toy Story fan and Toy Story 4 is 4th place as a movie for sure but it’s still Toy Story and appears to have incredible film assets. Also, animation has improved considerably since the original so isn’t is a positive to have those beautiful cut scenes even if they include characters from the new movie?

And the other dudes' motivation is to sell games and boost their subs.

Seems that the winning move is to simply not watch youtube... just play it yourself and see what you think.

I would think that’s what most people do. I decide if I like it based on what i see. Then if I play it enough and it doesn’t click it goes. Doesn’t happen often.

I guess there is a slew of people that need to be told what to do and think.

When he's right, he's right. Would you rather have a game involving theoretically all the movies -- and literally none of the assets? Like POTC?

Dear JJP….Buying Pinball machines are family decisions but you are cutting me off at the knees when I try to talk my wife into a $12K machine. It just kills my argument. Help a guy out. Go back to $10K and stop trying to get blood from a stone.

Don’t say that your comments have way to much TRUTH and HONESTLY… this will get you cancelled. What a brave man you are my friend. Your comments wave in the face of the narrative being spewed.

Everyone saying the game is terrible hasn’t played it. Everyone who initially didn’t like it played it and loved it.

What else can you say other than GO PLAY THE GAME.

People want to hate on the game because the price, but when you ask a question like well then why is Jurassic Park 20k, or the hated Munsters 18k you hear crickets. If we’re to hate a game merely because of the price then I’m guessing there isn’t a single fan of Big Bang Bar right? C’mon so you don’t like the price but go play the game and review the game based on the game itself. Simple.

Like I’ve said, you can complain about price but when Stern LEs are selling for $15k plus it’s gonna fall on deaf ears.

It’s the “market” right now. Like it or not. Start deflating everything else and you’d have a good argument.

For now, it’s “crickets”, can’t have it both ways. Not that tough to understand.

If Toy Story doesn’t sell at these prices then that’s on JJP. We will see

Forget the theme, the rule set, the accessories, the cost….there is already an issue with the playfield on the machine. Is anyone concerned about the jump ramp? This is a new machine just put on location causing damage.

I'm sure they can find a washer big enough to cover it up

Warrior's blew a 3-0 lead.....never forget lol

Meh

Do we value our pins on how much we could part them out for and sell them? That would make WOZ and Hobbit really valuable. I personally consider anything with a time element (having fun myself and with others) to be of much greater “value” than the actual cost of the parts.

Would a magnet in that empty space that does nothing other than bend you over without even buying you a drink first (found on Wonka and TAF) make this a better value game? To me, no!

Again, my 2 cents.

At least someone or a few of us have some common sense. Someone on this very site RIGHT NOW is offering a Munsters Premium for $16,500.00. Okay lets break that down Munsters which is not really a hot in demand license vs Toy Story a top 5 World wide license. Hmmm… and people complain about the price.

If we went up and down ALL of these threads and looked at everyone and I mean everyone who’s complaining about the price and we looked at their asking prices for games they’ve tried to sell what would we see??? So the very people on this site has created the market where Stern also raised prices from the 9k range for a limited edition to $11,099 and they want to complain.

NEW GAMES such as Toy Story are STILL CHEAPER than the USED games the VERY people on this thread are selling right now. Makes no sense at all to complain about $12,000 when they’re selling a Munsters Premium for $16,500.00

Furthermore look at the ads for this game right now people are asking $17,500 for the CE right now. Who created that number not JJP. Also before the release of Toy Story we saw STERN putting out 199 Elvira 40th and putting their distos up to selling the game for 25 to 30k. ELVIRA STILL DIDN”T COME WITH A TOPPER… Toy Story CE has a topper and its HALF THE PRICE! HELLO… why the double standard

Price of pinball and what people are willing to pay was created by the pinball buyers market about 2 years ago to today. If all of us are hating on prices, why don’t we ALL agree to go on our listings and drop the prices across the board 30%. Who would do that? No one obviously. We all want the max we can get out of anything we sell a car, house, or a pinball. We created the numbers now we complain about a supplier raising the price is so hypocritical.

Bottom line Toy Story brand new in the box is cheaper RIGHT NOW than Munsters Premium apparently.

Yes! The kaboom jump shot through two benson posts through a hoop of amazing LED’s and shaker craziness is really great. Ripping the woody spinner is really satisfying even though it is immediately stopped and dropped. The save Forky combo is incredibly satisfying.

It’s full of easy shots (left ramp, Buzz pop area) but there are some really hard shots as well (road trip lock and believe it or not, the very narrow scoop).

Good God man - give it a rest. You’re just flailing your arms like a lunatic now.

Huh LOL?! You forgot to rant about woke, mainstream media and the deep state.

Are you really that insecure in your Toy Story love that you have to resort to whiny right wing language?

No one wants to cancel you. Breathe!!!

It’s just funny when adults flip out when they get criticized if they get suckered into buying a $15k+ pinball machine where the highlight is a pop up Gabby bash toy.

Don't post much here or anywhere to be fair but i think this stern vrs jjp a bit odd.
I only ever owned DI and kinda did not like it and bypassed the next few as I wanted to have Toy Story.

So I wait and wait and seen all these JJP pins loaded to the hilt and as JJP's model is to sell loaded premium tables, I said to myself (happy days there doing toy story next its going to be loaded after years in the making ) and I have been waiting since leaked announcement for Toy Story.
But WTF is thing I was to buy doing in place of what Jack's model is supposed to be.

They bring out one table per 2+ years and this is there best, cake decor in place of real toys a 10inch tablet in place of a proper mech either a Ferris wheel or a crane and dimmed down game play to suit kids.

So this brings me to my first point stern vrs JJP. Stern sell themselves as 4 new cornerstones and maybe 1 kapow per year, OK I can forgive them when they make 1 or 2 bad themed tables per year as I have other options with the other tables they make but Im kinda fecked now if i wanted to add another JJP IL have to wait 2 years again and chances are slim IL like that theme or there might be the same issue.

I know they may bring another game sooner but we don't know that for sure.

And before anyone says play it to me before you try, I cant I have to have the crap flown in before i can play it.

Also stop comparing stern with JJP games stern are miles ahead on every front with most of there games.