HWN prices got a boost since TS4 announced. That cracked me up. Loaded pin with tons of potential, hopefully Spooky keeps the updates rolling.

Got one of those Rick. I like it a lot. Zero mechs, no pops, left side of pf is “barren”. Great theme and fun pin, especially if they get the animations and code right.

You are a beast Amigo. Love it!

I totally get your point and others.

Can’t really put it all on JJP though.

It’s all relative, people see a MunstersLE go for $17k recently and say why not on a NIB Toy Story at $15k which they perceive as better?

Not to mention the load of pins that sell for well north of $15k on the secondary market today.

And anytime you say something like “the pinball price bubble is about to burst” it’s met with laughter and scoffing

And, “Pinside is just a very small part of a large growing hobby”

Ok, which is it then? You don’t get to cheer Stern LEs going up and then say well, that F ing JJP, these prices are whack

I might agree with all of it. Secondary market prices are gonna drop and when they do then I’d say that yep, JJP really F Ed up here on price.

Until I see that happen the market will just remain crazy. OR, maybe it’s just the new normal?

The point is, that $17,5k price for Munsters was not MSRP set by Stern, but the insane price of $15k was set by JJP.

Ok - let me see how real this is. Hopefully they can at least acknowledge the obvious (terrible choice to go TS4, no mechs, and too expensive for what they provide). These are just facts. No one would pick TS4, there are no custom mechs and it can shoot well and be fun but that’s not 12-15. Jumping in……will update shortly.

Look, I'll do this same thing for Stern. I HAVE done it. Case in point is the thing I know a LOT about. Flipper fade. I continually praise Stern for their forward-thinking almost-magical flipper coil heat management. They decided to make their hardware capable of doing sub-millisecond duty cycles. JJP and everyone else, literally EVERYONE, is stuck at 1ms minimum. That makes a HUGE difference in flipper hold. When held, Stern Spike machines will generate almost no heat (like 1-2 degrees) even if you hold the flipper for a half hour. JJP and everyone else will keep heating the coils even in hold, even on dual wound ones. So it's a huge advantage, and big props to Stern. Literally NO ONE was talking about it before me. No one.

JJP changed their driver board for Toy Story 4. Is it to better compete with Stern on heat? Dunno, but I'm super-excited to check it out.

But I'm NOT selling Toy Story 4 machines. Where do you get this idea? (And JJP, if you have this same idea, PM me for my address to send the commission check).

I'm plenty experienced with pins myself, having owned well over a hundred and probably played many hundred. Even with all that experience, I can form some opinions pre-play, but there's zero substitute for putting your hands on a machine no matter how much experience with pins you have.

So, apparently, it IS now just like every other JJP launch.

This is a dang Fact!

Game shoots really really good. Jump ramp shot feels very satisfying when you hit it. Lotsa flow. Reserve judgement till you play it.

*Disclaimer* Keeping my order

My point was that that Lawlor still had some creative mech magic in him after B/W, with a restrictive Stern BOM on games that sold for $4000 or less NIB.

And JJP is setting their pricing based on the shit they see in the secondary market.

That simple.

So instead of selling Toy Story for $12,500 so Chris can flip it for $15k they put it where it is.

As for “value” and beancounters? Jack was running the company into the ground. Without the bean counters and investor there would be no more JJP

They are shooting themselves in the foot.

Maybe so. I heard that a lot every time Stern jacked up their prices. BM66 and what they did with the LE and SLE bring back memories? Amongst many other hits

But we aren’t in a “bubble”, no such thing.

What game would you compare its depth too?

Did you play the game in the wild around the LA area?

I live in Ridgecrest, Ca which is about 2-2 1/2 hours to LA area and would be nice to play one in person.

I got my CE in order, but wanna get my hands on one.

Oh there's the green aliens, finally !

Screenshot_20220617-201211 (resized).png

But that still leaves the question, "Where did it go?" The last drops of magic cited were over 14 years ago, and he had a giant BOM comparitively on all his JJP games compared to the lean Stern years. sk8ball and Hogbog are pulling new ideas or new spins on old ideas with mechs and playfield layout with every release. Multiples, not just one. It's just disappointing Lawlor settled into his "pinball's greatest design hits" for the machines in the back end of his career, especially when there was no BOM excuse and JJP was thrilled to have him.

Nobody talking about the code making a game great.

Katz did a great job on Wonka with what he had to work with.

Let’s see if Toy Story has the same type of Lyman magic eventually.

That’s a tall order

Looks like Ayce Gogi has theirs. West Hills location, so 150 miles from you.

ayce gogi west hills (resized).jpg

Looks like a Wonka in that pic…

looks like a mojito to me…

A wonka with a Toy Story 4 title screen?

U hit my funny bone

Lol. Sounds ridiculous. One can hope.

Anything is possible. Elwin came from nowhere.

Shows you how much code matters. Can make a game epic.

Lyman is my all time favorite pinball guy. A terrible loss and tragedy.

Btw, JP Dewin, the Elwin of animations. Half way there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

He also canceled Wonka and we all seen how this pin turned out.Ask anybody that’s played it or owned it.

Terrible loss.....what he did on TWD dead was incredible...its now my fav pin

Obviously every location is different but what you're describing sounds more like a place where actual pinball players come to play so it would make sense maybe south park doesnt earn as well. At places where you get a lot of random casuals (campgrounds, laundrymats, normal bars, ect) the story is often different. I still see your point though

Man just because 1 or two people said something negative doesn't mean the overwhelming majority of feedback wasn't positive. It was. Almost all the other JJP's started off negative and grew better but GNR seemed to go the opposite way

You've done nothing but criticize for three days now.We got that you don't like anything about this game but it seems like your goal is to make everybody hate it like you do.Where is the fun in that?

Or maybe this. Made this with my own pictures. Yep, I own an HP TouchPad. Oh and a NGG. Sold the Tee'd Off. Still sad about that.

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My all time favorite too. I’ve played that game by far more than any other I’ve got. Gotten to LMS several times and actually beat it twice.

And that’s the only way I could ever get there is play it a few thousand times because I’m an average player. It’s a masterpiece.

But I think BM66 and Elvira are too. Amazing

So I had a chance to watch the SDTM video - their first impressions of toy story. For those that haven’t seen it, I’m linking below

I listened to the entire thing and you guys know I’m a straight shooter and I’ve been critical of Zach and the boys shilling in the past - not dancing around that. But I still listen Bc it’s entertainment. This post is longer than expected but it wrote itself.

This video was disgusting. Even for SDTM - this is an entirely new level of shill to the point where it literally was a commercial that ended with a, “Where can I buy this? Well - at FlipNOut pinball! They even said pull the trigger! The kids will take the pin over! Wow. I’m sorry is this impressions or a sale? But we know the answer - obvious hype sell video which is what I really can’t stand. Just say what you’re doing guys. And if Zach wants to feel uncomfortable again and have me on I’ll be happy to juice up the views and I’ll be as respectful as I was before to discuss TS4. I type this here but have no problem saying it directly live bc I don’t stand for shady sales tactics.

I’ll leave some real nuggets from their own words bc even for my low SDTM standards there are some shill classics here.

“If you like Ballys 90s pins you will like this game.”

This could be the most ridiculous shill statement from this crew ever. Not even going to dive into this. Still shaking my head. They say later that jjp was aiming to be like 90s Bally (implying they were successful in doing so). Really? Not one mech, literally no magic? Shame.

“Is there anything mech wise you didn’t like”? Greg says no - not really.

No - not really? Everyone else who’s not selling the game would respond like this…..Zach - are you joking or are you just that much of a shill Bc there are no custom mechs in the game so what is there not to like? But hey - as Greg says - what makes up for the lack of everything is the fact it’s fun!……. It just costs 12-15k. Buy Buy Buy!

Zach says TS4 reminds him of Elvira house of horrors Bc there aren’t many mechs.

I guess Zach missed that GIGANTIC mech right in the middle of the pf called the custom house. Everyone knows Stern hates making that game Bc there are a ton of custom mechs/sculps on it. Shame. Buy Buy Buy - 15k

Zach says Toy Story 4 has TWO spinners! Wow. Awesome. 12- 15k

Zach says JJP could of saved money by including only 1 or 2 voices but they included 3!

I’m not a pinball manufacturer but I’m assuming they saved a lot of money by not including any custom mechs or toys that require more than 3 hrs of development. That’s just called common sense. And they got clips from toy story 4 - the movie no one wanted and no company would even care to pay for. Awesome

Zach says Joe Katz is a friend.

Yep that checks out. Probably the most honest thing I heard. Cromwell is already #1 but Joe they’ll make you happy too.

Zach says the one mech he loves is the saucer.

Yes - he’s calling out a SAUCER as a mech. New low.

Ok I’m stopping here. Zach tried to throw in “criticism” bc even he knows it can’t be all gushing and guess what - he says there could be one too many pop bumpers! Yep - Bc that’s what everyone is pissed about. What a joke.

There’s about 8 more things like the complete pass on that giant iPad and Zach’s kiss up tribute to Pat for basically taking JJP away from Jack, moving it to Chicago and essentially killing the JJP we all loved after WoZ….but just writing this disgusts me.

I’ve already acknowledged it will shoot well - that’s clear but to ignore all that it’s missing and not bringing that back to the price (just to debate) is so disappointing but also not surprising bc that was just an ad. I appreciate the other dealers who are wise enough not to try and make fake impressions videos to sell their games. It’s shameful.

Stop trying to influence newbies through pinside and just sell machines.

Another 3-4 hours playing, this game is so good.

Thank you for an honest appraisal! We all see right through JJP ultimate sycophant Zach and his buddy shiller supreme Greg. Yes we trust those two like any good ol’ snake oil salespeople running around the pinball world. Everything’s a B-/+, you don’t even need to watch their nonsense to know. Hmmm, these two bow down further than anyone else I’ve ever seen to realm of JJP.

You got me beat...I've gotten there a few times, but haven't beat it yet although I only have a few hundred games on the machine....but man the game is addicting...more so than any other in my collection

Thoughts after watching the SDTM review:

- Love the intro when you hear Buzz Lightyear’s voice while a warning for adult language is on screen

- The first cut that shows the Bo Peep spinner plays a different spinner sound than what’s in the game. I think this might’ve been from the promo video and I missed it at the time. It’s like the marketing guy said no way they’re playing that bell in promo material

- Agree with Zach and Greg that the playfield art is amazing

- Backbox display is another JP Dewin masterpiece

- Looks like there are shots within shots, so more variety in the shots than the layout would suggest

- Had a hard time finding something in this pin that isn’t already done as well or perhaps better in other pins. Agree with some other comments that TS4 may be a “best of” design that amalgamates shots from a collection of pins, rather than creates something new

- Agree that four pop bumpers is overkill

- Really like what I’m hearing about the variable approaches to reach the wizard mode. Hope it works well and we see this in future pins

- Can’t wait to see someone (Karl?) test if JJP truly fixed loss of flipper power over time

- Love the literal shill merch

Well...a saucer always has a mech underneath it to kick the ball out (otherwise the ball would just stay in there forever).

Why did they not address the big iPad screen in the game, I have not played but agree seems like too much and rather have something else since we have the big lcd back glass screen

And then we have the occasional, surely from JJP company extra accounts, telling us how they played the game and loving it! Who cares if it’s an obvious JJP cash grab. Sheesh does everything on the internet have to be so blatantly fake?

Love your content. Keep up the good work!
Your enthusiasm and love of the hobby comes thru and i for one allways have a smile on my face, when i see you have new content.
Ignore the haters, that usually provides nothing but vitriol themself.

The game looks fabulous. I think besides beatles it's the most beautiful ever.
Seems really fun to shoot and the theme of toy story seems to come thru in a good way.
I also really like jjp's ongoing effort trying to appeal to a younger generation coming into this excellent hobby.

Two gripes.

The ipad should have been an amazing mech.

The cost. Here in sweden with freight and vat, a le will come in at 17k, wich for comparishion, is almost the same as a secretary or such makes in a year.

Sooo.....like literally every other video for a new release they've made since buying FlipnOut?
How is this new in any way?

I do appreciate the produced launch video packages they do for JJP releases. They are all well done and provide good behind the scenes insights on the new games.
The other impressions/reviews content is a hard pass as it cannot realistically be objective.

You do know that the only thing objective in this world is basic math and swiss watches?

Round and round we go.

I happen to know RobbyIRL5 is a real account (not a JJP employee)and I think he's just being honest!

Classic

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