In for a Bierhaus CE if they make that. Best slot machine ever!

I'll gladly take Heidi on my back glass

Casuals vs pin-heads. Very different things appeal to people and some hobbyists just can't get their head out of their butt enough to know the world includes more types than just them.

Some of our best earners are games hobbyists turn their nose up at... even some games I hate to death.. but they have the curb appeal to pull people in and the play mechanics are catered to their style enough to keep them coming back.

What works for a location can be very different than what works in a collector's basement.. which can be very different from what works in a 'gameroom buyers' basement.

Game Terminal Nashville: Under 21 4-8pm. Almost 100 pins pay to play and tons of free vids. That 4-8pm is often packed with kids, mingled with adults. I've gone there quite a few times and it's a full place with adults drinking, eating and playing pins with and without their kids. I'll go there with my wife and kids (age 18 & 11). At 8pm, they ask the kids to wrap their games and we take off. Between the 4 of us, the place is $150-$200 richer once drinks, food and games are factored in. They aren't complaining and neither are we.

Same thing happens at Pins Mech Co. in many towns (I've been to Nashville and Columbus OH locations).

Why ? Because the smart places know that some parents like a day drink or two sometimes. Sometimes with our kids. And that can mean more $$ for them in their bottom line by having arcade games that appeal to a whole family. These places are possibly getting a crowd and $$ when they wouldn't normally by having these options.

Wonder if there is a deliberate intention to emulate these sounds as the intention behind them is to stimulate dopamine?

Haven't played TS4 so no idea how it feels to play it.

CONFIRMED, DISTRIBUTORS ARE NOW SELLING THE CE AT MSRP

NOT SURPRISED AT ALL

I'm totally on your side with this one, I've spent a TON of time and dollars at breweries, including all over VA, but you just showed us a photo that is totally void of kids. And no doggies under the tables, either.

Any luck with electronic darts? Theres a local place here, and that always seems really busy

What’s the over/under that JJP announces their next pin before end of 2022?

The biggest sin is the price. The ONLY reason this hobby has a future is because arcade bars are hooking new players. At JJP prices it doesn’t really make sense to put these games on location. JJP is clearly here for while the getting sis good and not for the long haul.

My guess is that you won’t see another JJP this year. Eric’s at the start of 23 and Steve’s in 24…

Can anyone confirm if JJP is charging a transfer fee? I am just curious.

There are dart leagues/etc still in the area with spots with lots of proper setups, but that seems like a specialized things - I've not seen any casuals play much more than the classic dart boards in other spots.

We are in 100% agreement there my friend. I can't stand those things!

Oh I have zero doubt that that is a thing.

That was Gary Stern's spiel when he was trying to hold onto the 4k price point. JJP proved him wrong, and now pinball, both on location and in homes is bigger than it has been in almost 30 years.

Pinball is still cheap in comparison to most coinOp equipment. The key is to make them EARN - not make them cheap.

Yes we all know SMB and south park ect earn big time on location. Those don't cost 12k

What's the monthly interest on 12k?
What's my take on the game monthly?
What's the residual value of the piece when I sell it?

People are focused on all the wrong numbers.

What percentage is the customers fault?

The other 100%

You've been talking to Jack...

JJP learned their lesson on premature game announcements with POTC (having failed to learn it with Hobbit). Announce and start shipping immediately, just like Stern. Doing otherwise just costs you sales.

So unless you think they can finish up GnR and ship all of the Toy Story orders by Christmas, I’d say zero chance a new JJP is announced in 2022.

Played several games on it today.

Pros:
It does shoot well and the lighting is great. This is one of the prettiest games to look at. The ramps are smooth. I do like the lift ramp and the shot feels great. Even with all the lights the game to me is easier to understand what to shoot than GNR. The pinball video mode was pretty cool and i like how the bumpers in the video mode react with the real bumpers on the playfield.

Cons:
Game sounds i didn’t like as it really does feel like your at a casino. Flippers still don’t have that snappy feel stern has. This game to me had that floaty feel like some of the original JJP games had. Game is fun but not 12K fun and nowhere near 15k + fun for a CE. The jump ramp already has visible damage on the bottom left corner and wasn’t sitting flush to the playfield so I am worried that will not hold up well long term. Lack of interactive toys is a miss and the pop up face of the girl is just weird and not a satisfying shot.

Overall if this was priced around $8,500 or so I would be a buyer. I just don’t see the value here.

If we can just get Keith elwin to design a game at Stern and use the JJP lighting systems in his games, to me that would be the ultimate pinball machine.

I had an opportunity to play one this morning. I have been waiting for Toy Story since the rumors began years ago. I was very disappointed by the choice of TS4 and and everyones initial reactions. I am glad I played it instead of just backing out based on others opinions. I spent about an hour on it and really enjoyed it. I'm not a super advanced player like many of you, but I thought it played great and it kept me coming back. Yes the pricing is too high as are many things in the world we live in. But ultimately life is short.

Saying you're pleased with the game as you're going to die someday does not fill me with confidence

Just a joke, glad you enjoyed the game and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Someone said they have 2 lines now?
So why can't they keep rolling ts4 through the summer and split the lines for number 8 followed by announcing in December?

Labor, supply chains

1000%. Great slot. Play it every time I go. Oktoberfest should have made it a Heidifest

was the damage to the ramp that can be replaced easily or the playfield itself?

The expression lighting and software programming/choreography on my Rush LE is really awesome. I prefer it to the GNR LE that I sold to make room for Rush. No doubt GNR lighting is well done, but Stern is improving in this domain.

It took them 2 years to make as many GnRs as they plan to make of toy story.

The bottom left was slightly bent. Because it’s not sitting flush with the play field when the ball rolls over it, it’s damaging it. That’s what it appeared to me. Next time I go back I’ll take a photo.

as long as its the ramp and not the playfield i guess.....I remember seeing GnR on location early and the scoop and slings were destroyed and it made me nervous....Still bought the game tho heh

Didn't JJP just finish expanding their production capacity? With 4(?) designers on board now, it seems like they must be targeting two releases per year.

I can see JJP announcing another game by years end. My guess is TS4 sales are way down compared to GNR. I think JJP's strategy is to build less games for more profit and move onto the next title.

Yay Stern!!!

JJP's been trying to get to two releases a year what seems like forever.

Can we all agree that the biggest problem with TS4 is the price? If it was priced correctly I think it would not be getting all the hate. Maybe the standard will be the one to go with? Any news if they are doing a standard? unless the remove the jump ramp. That would be a total loss.

If they had a standard wouldn't they have announced it? I think we're looking at 2 trim levels for this game which honestly I think is about right.

Now, I will agree the price hurts a lot and is probably causing a lot of the vitriol.
Then, Pinside thrives on it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And it not being based on one of the better Toy Story movies. And the sounds put some people off. And fewer mech features than were expected. And the Mirco playfield.

Not saying people who like TS4 shouldn't like it. But those who don't have more reasons than just the price.

I bet this is it. There are also a lot of people who were not thrilled with Toy Story to begin with, and only looking forward to innovation from JJP and Lawlor. It is a dream theme for me, and with the pricing I'm glad they went with TS4 and no big mech otherwise I would probably be spending more money than I can really afford on one. Also the price does not match the lack of warranty/support from JJP. I was watching an unboxing video last night and out of the box there was already a lot of stuff broken and connectors not plugged in to the correct place.

A pretty bad strategy when costs are so front-loaded and your product line consists of... 1 maybe 2 things to sell.

It pretty much makes you into a bang or bust company.

Why does Stern ship LEs before premiums? Capturing the money before it has a chance to flee...

To be fair, Stern also produces pro models before LEs to get an operator-friendly model to locations quicker. With no standard TS4, the LE is the operator-friendly model in this case.

I'll believe it when I see it. Until then I'm with this guy:

And now that LE's are commonly 1,000 units, Premium's are sometimes rarer quite awhile. Many distributors are have been selling GZ Premium's for the price of LE's because Stern hasn't kept up with demand for Premium's.

Also a nice perk for the folks paying up for LE's to get their machines first. I'm usually a Premium buyer, but have opted for an LE on occasion to get it sooner.

Completely different discussions. The Operator games are pros because Stern has them... the same 'get some games on location' strategy would apply if stern used a different tier too.

The question was 'why hold back a standard?' -- for the reason of not offering your lowest price first... especially if you are not sure you want to offer it. Every sales negotiation starts high and only goes low if you need to. JJP started high and can be holding back a lesser model as a fail-safe in case they NEED to.

Stern makes LEs early for the same kind of reasoning... push buyers to your higher priced items vs giving them more outs.

Price, poor theme integration, irritating audio and unknown playfield integrity.

Anyone looking for innovation from Lawlor in 2022 hasn't been paying attention. He's been on a "greatest hits" mech tour for years. What's the last truly original playfield mech he's debuted? I think you'd have to go back to Bally/Williams for that. He's a master of flow and his pins are going to shoot well, but innovation or reinventing something in a new way? Look to sk8ball or Hogbog for that these days.

Nope. Had it been Toy Story (without the iPad) and not TS4 price wouldn’t be a problem with creative mechs and proper IP. I would have bought my CE in a heartbeat.

The biggest problem with TS4 is that it’s TS4. Price is it’s second biggest problem.