No game ships with finished code. Well old solid states did lol.

Well shit, I’m warming up to this game after watching a gameplay video. My biggest complaint was no right ramp. Now I realize the right orbit is the right ramp. Also very cool how the duke kaboom pop up ramp shot then feeds into the left ramps and returns to the left flipper.

I wish they would have posted this gameplay videobefore. Why hold back all of this before sales open up? It’s wild.

Might just hang onto my CE spot.

FOMO and price tag?

Wonka

Let's be fair here.

Wonka
1. Spinning gobstopper
2. Rotating gobstopper hole
3. Wonkavision
4. Wonkavator super physical ball lock
5. Kickback
6. 6 magnets under the playfield (not counting the others which stop / divert the ball
7. Newton Ball
8. Subway

Toy Story LE / CE
1. Spinning disc
2. 10" LCD
3. Physical ball lock
4. Kickback
5. Popup jump target
6. Individually controlled popup posts
7. Popup troll mech
8. Hot Rails
9. Newton ball

Subway doesn't do anything but has a strong effect on the game experience, so I'm also including the hot rails on Toy story. And the 10" LCD is like 3 Wonkavisions, right? There's plenty in the machine. We'll see how it plays...

Agreed. I really don't what people are on about with this game. Regardless of theme TS4, or if it looks like it's for kids because of how colorful it is, etc. There are FAR worse games out in the last few years. There is a lot here on this machine, especially when you watch the actual gameplay like you said. Code wise: Carnival modes, Scenes to complete, Characters to collect, etc. Playfield wise: LCD mini games, Bash pop-up target, Duke Kaboom ramp that lands on a plastic frame ABOVE the pop bumpers and feeds back to left flipper, spinning disk that actually you can toggle the power ups, several magnets, newton ball, light show, etc.

Twilight Zone
Wonka
Funhouse
Adams Family
Earth Shaker

Are a few that come to mind

Watch the video again. Toy Story has magnets too.

I think it is solely because of the price, so a cost to value analysis. At $15,000, I think it’s fair to expect more. However, if it was $9,000 to $10,000 people would be thrilled.

There's also a Newton ball in Wonka, there's other magnets to add and other minor features. The toys in Toy Story are weak by comparison.

Also, 99% of Pinsiders could care less that there's a 10" screen that is 3x the size of Wonka's (maybe 2x). My goodness what a waste of space. I rather have the large Wonkavator physical ball lock then an ugly 10" LCD in a pinball machine of all things.

Will re-watch, thank you.

Yeah the gameplay looks pretty fun to me. I love the franchise. My kids dig it too.

I always get wrapped up into the Pinside negativity. It’s so damn toxic.

Life is short. Pinball is fun.

But is there 12-15k worth of stuff vs Wonka. Original pricing? I expect it will play awesome

I agree with this. None of us are forced to buy it. I don't mind the opinions...and the negatives....all good.... but man its the same ones over and over.

It's clear this game will be a ton of fun to play. Another winner for JJP I'm certain that will kill on location. The crushing disappointment you all feel will soon pass... Your own expectations will always far exceed reality.

Pinflation is real. This pin is really no different than what is going on with all the other things consumers are buying with exception to televisions. I don’t like it anymore than any of us do but it seems to be the new normal unfortunately

I feel like a lot of you forget about inflation.

Wonka CE was $12,500 in April 2019. That would be roughly $14,300 in today’s money.

Pinball has gotten a little nutty since then too. Is $15,000 really THAT out of line when that’s taken into account?

Well, I won’t be setting it next to my WonkaCE, don’t want to get confused which game I’m playing

I’ve bought too many games over the years to judge a game before dropping a few hundred plays on it. You guys know that.

As many have said, this is all about the $$$

I think it will be “fun” and “approachable” which is not good enough for most people especially for the $$$

My long term plan? I can give Wonka, WOZ and Toy Story to my 3 kids when they have my grandkids old enough to have fun with it!

Yeah. A lot of these guys are a tad repetitive. I try to take their opinions with a grain of salt. The most negative people are usually the loudest.

Fair, but I think folks might me missing something big here. It may not be all JJPs fault. We can only guess what they had to spend on the licensing. Those costs are going back to us. You are buying Toy Story, not some 30-40 year old them like Jaws or BTTF. JJPs has not only given us a modern pinball machine, with good toys imo, but unlike POTC, this time we get an insane amount of assets from Toy Story. I haven't seen this many assets since Mandalorian or Godzilla movie clip wise...and this is Pixar's baby! Again, I can only imagine how much they had to pay.

Ok. It was your list, not mine. I fixed your list and added the Newton ball to Wonka.

The screen does seem extra large, but I'll reserve judgment until I see how it's integrated into gameplay. The GnR stage screen is fantastic when playing.

I explained what I don't like about this from the videos so far, but we'll see what happens when I get my hands on it.

Yes. It is based on what you get for $15,000.

We're talking in 2022 money, not 2019 money. Everyone wants a time machine, but they're hard to come by.

Maybe you missed GNR? The band involvement and “assets” will never be better.

That is actually a very fair point. That cost is definitely an unknown.

The economy is going back there. Housing, cars etc

It’s called “Demand destruction”.

Still about $1 trillion in Covid savings to still burn through. Matter of time

But I digress, don’t want to get into that discussion

So in the video, I believe Joe Katz said you beat the game with buzz first. If you start going through again, it’s with woody. Does that mean we’ll see different Scenes the second time through or what was he referring to?

Good points. Honestly if money and space were no issue I would be buying every single JJP and Stern. None of today's modern games are really bad, ok maybe Thunderbirds lol. It's just these prices have become so hard to stomach and the higher they go the more critical potential customers are as we all want value for the money we are spending.

I could see spending $12k - $15k on Toy Story if it had a large primary mech instead of the 10" LCD but that is just me. LCD toys are cool but I think the one in Toy Story comes across as a bit to large and one that takes up valuable space for what otherwise could have been a larger mechanical toy.

Who knows I may end up with one of these one day, have bought every other JJP pin and still have 4 which I never plant to sell.

Look at dialed in CE. $12500 in June 2017. That’s $15k now. Really, the CE price hasn’t actually changed much at all. What’s changed is your money is worth less now.

Yeah you know you are getting one Panzer! Keep fighting the good fight though.

What’s changed is they have stripped out mechs and innovation and replaced it with recycled ideas and lights.

I get it. That’s another argument for sure.

Is this game really that stripped though? I don’t see that.

Can you change the girls bash head out for Zurg or something ? Is it’s name Amber ?

I agree with you - but I guess for me it is stripped enough that I’m out at the price point. I am ok with the price but not with what’s included. Happy to have my Wonka and DI for around 7500 each.

Gabby Gabby I think

Lol yeah I'll probably get one at some point, may have to be used HUO this time around. I will always argue for more mechanical toys in games at these insane prices.

You really don’t get what people are complaining about? There are far worse games?

Do those games cost 15k for the CE or 12k for the entry trim? Do those games represent a giant step back in what the company did before but then charge 3 times the amount? Did those games promise innovation and say no corners were cut and then glue on cake toppers that cost $20? What a joke. C’mon clearstar - you deserve better for that money. NightTrain - I really want to see you keep your CE and take that 15k+ hit. Then I will truly appreciate what you’re saying. I hope we don’t see it on the MP soon ; )

Let me add in some more classics I’m hearing…..this is a good one……

when did games have to be loaded to be good? When was that a requirement? Here’s the obvious answer…….when those games ask the customer to pay 15 thousand dollars - that’s when! Star Wars pro cost 6k. Add 9K to that and yeah - I sure as hell expect that game to now have something in it. I passed on TS CE today and happy to do so. I wasn't going to get Cromwelled into buying a machine that has less than before but costs more.

I can see people saying WoZ is loaded but man it doesn’t shoot well - I rather the game shoot well than be loaded. OK - sounds good. How about that same game that is no longer loaded and therefore has a lower BOM not cost 15K??? Doesn’t that make sense? I guess b/c it’s “fun” and “shoots well” - now it’s going to cost 12k or 15k. GTFO.

Bottom line - we deserve better guys. And that distributor now selling his “last” CE at 17.5 or game goodies in Arizona selling at 24.5k. They should be on your never buy from list again.

Wow , just got a chance to watch some vids .It’s definitely big time eye candy and looks to be a real fun shooter to boot :)Congrats to all those getting one .Not going to lie , I’m kinda jealous Great job Team Lawlor !

Amazing response

Gosh just imagine bragging to anyone that you bashed Gabby Gabby enough times that you got to the carousel wizard mode. Then tell them how much you spent. Dialed in is about half the price of a CE and a dang good game by the same designer.

Yeah pics don’t do it justice. Video shows some really cool videos on screen and nice glow imo. Love the match claw grabbing the numbers. Getting a CE. At least topper has some design to it and not a flat plastic like others. Step up there. Prob $1500 value or more in todays market.

Funny!

Sooo over today......what could have been amazing.......is just meh

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Also only 150-200 dice which is limited and it and potc had special armor.whice is nice touch.. 1k is a good many for a ce considering where jjp started. Again ts4 will b a fine playing pin but I think many were just expecting something way different. Glad to c another jjp pin available tho. More pins the better Just so many options these days for much less.

Never forget that Pinside killed Pirates.

Maybe they are looking at these Stern LEs selling in the secondary market and thinking if a Munsters LE just went for $17k maybe Toy Story is worth $15k?

JP, Elvira, Stranger Things, Godzilla, Deadpool, Batman66, Iron Maiden, Munsters, Ghostbusters, MB, AFM, MM etc what am I missing? All $15k plus.

When you get enough people whining about price that’s when you know you’ve probably squeezed out most of the flipper crowd

Too much supply at higher prices will eventually cause some “Demand destruction”

What’s next for Stern LEs? $12,500?

The original spinner was so dang cool

I do hear you, but this is all opinion. I get what people are complaining about, but that doesn't dismiss the people who disagree and are excited for this title.
Everything you said is your opinion that, yes others may share, but not everyone. Everyone has different speed when it comes to Pinball, which makes it great. I have enough standard great "shooter" machines, it's nice to mix it up. Every machine isn't a tournament pin. Everything doesn't need to be an Elwin style pin to be good. Again, in my opinion... I mean my favorite pin is The Hobbit for heavens sake. *shrug*

Also, where are you getting off comparing Toy Story to Star Wars Pro...lol? I can't even comment on that, considering the ridiculousness of the comparison. Toy Story has twice as much going on than SW Pro - or Premium.

Lastly, people keep saying $15K, the game isn't $15K. The game "for the masses" is $12K...it is $1K more than GNR & Wonka. I'm sorry, but I don't see how Toy Story is any worse than those. What "toys" does GNR have besides the light show? I've owned both too. Going back to what I said before, the IP from Disney might be so expensive, it may not be cost effective for JJP to even bother with a Standard on this one. I think people want an $9K option and JJPs just can't get there BOM wise. You really think they don't want to sell machines?

DIIIIIIII bruvvvvvvvv. Wonka is buttery smooth too though.