I would argue that the majority of CE buyers are GenX (born 1965-1980) but it would be interesting to see the breakdown.

As a Gen X CE hopeful buyer, I agree. I also think this particular title will bring new buyers to the hobby and the average age of CE buyers may skew younger as the license may attract parents with younger kids.

I meant to say that I think this title will skew younger with CE buyers

It better be Pat Lawlor's best game ever - ie Pinside top 5 to support that kind of pricing. That's $4,500 over a CC SE and $3500 over a Stern Prem!

Not having an SE might prove to be a mistake as it's going to remove a lot of buyers. Eliminating the entry level game worked for CGC because their entry level game (SE) is $8k.

From an economics perspective, 2020 wasn't a recession or any sort of long standing dip. So industry didn't even have a chance to feel a hit on demand, only supply, which supported price increases.

The two previous recessions are also atypical to the current environment in that there was not a rapid rise in prices due to supply issues (read greed in here as much as you want). So keeping prices current was feasible, as pinball is not a commodity item, and doesn't have to respond to price pressures. But when you have increased prices 20%-50% from a few years ago (looking back at the last 10 years), and money gets tight, you have the opportunity to see demand actually drop. Although most people in pinball view it as some level of investment. Not to be appreciating, but to at least fetch a buck to free up cash. It might be that generally people downsize to get new pins, or at least don't grow collections. And that doesn't impact manufacturers, and gets pinball into some new hands, assuming those people have the disposable income to acquire a collection.

supply issues make the old dates useless.

Maybe, but I'll bet you a $20 donation to project pinball (putting pinball machines in children's hospitals. I'm right if you're willing. JJP will announce with an official teaser trailer at minimum between Memorial day and Juneteenth.

No doubt we are in uncharted waters - currency in circulation in 2000 was just over 500B and as of today we are almost at 2.3T. Hopefully the economic growth remains and keeps unemployment low - otherwise we'll see the return of stagflation like we had in the 1970's.

I don't see pinball as an appreciating investment so much - more of a tangible commodity that depreciates less than cash (at least that's my pitch to the wife).

Whatever it takes to keep them coming home! It's certainly not an appreciating asset (minus rare cases), but people can go, I have 4 machines, that means in a couple weeks I could get $xx if needed. If a dream object/experience comes along, you can liquidate as needed. I don't see us falling into a depression where that fact goes away, but do see pressure on used markets if trends continue.

From everything I've read, which is just speculation like most things with the economy, if there's a recession it will be mild and nothing like what we saw in 08 - 09. Job numbers are still up, and unemployment is low. The sky isn't falling, no point in jumping to conclusions yet. After 10+ years of growth a mild recession may even be seen as normal.

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Agreed, but when you're in the key demographic of pinball, and getting closer, or seriously planning retirement and see a 25% drop in wealth, it makes you think. Some people are smart enough to ride the wave. Others sell out at the bottom in fear, and will see a hit to disposable income in the near future.

Either way, bring on Toy Story. I won't be buying regardless, but will enjoy playing it if price points allow them to make it to the public.

Office Space would be a fantastic theme!

The Matrix would be better

Can you imagine the pissing and moaning around here fearing it would feature the newest one? Flashback to GB around here.

Great to see the excitement around a new pin but has everyone forgotten about all the issues with Marco and the playfields? Or does everyone just not care now?

I guess many consider washers covering up problem areas a good enough solution.

Hahahaha it would definitely have to be based on the original trilogy as the last movie SUCKED!

*Mirco*

Oh crap we forgot all about that!
We’re all so happy that you reminded us it sucks being all happy about a new JJP !

Mirco, Marco, Polo still shit playfields no matter what he calls himself

Mate don’t be a douchebag, I’m excited for Toy Story myself but CE are likely 15k+ and it’s like people have miraculously just forgot all about the issues.

Jack and co see these forums and figure why bother doing anything to sort the playfields these guys can’t wait to buy them quick enough, nothing worse than seeing a fellow pinhead opening a new game and having their excitement blown at the water by major issues.

I can only speak for myself but washers are good enough for me. Wife has given a green light on this theme and I’m hoping it’s the game that finally gets her into pinball. I’ll take the risk. And yes, I will complain on here if it has pooling and chipping, but in the end, I know what I’m getting myself into.

Exactly my thoughts! Sorry to say but, I just don’t see the point in all these stupid “Speculation” threads. What’s the purpose? All they do is fuel JJP’s fire to hike prices!

Every new machine is the same fking story. NIB machines plagued with playfield issues. Then there’s a bunch of people crying over bad playfields and horrible customer service afterwards.

Then, a year later, they are all ready for the next one…..

I have owned JJP machines before so I know first hand what it is to deal with all the issues coming right out of the box. Which I think is BS given all the money these machines cost.

Keep up your pointless speculating and helping drive prices up! Peace!

Trust me JJP doesn't need any motivation from Pinsiders to justify raising prices. I think they raised the price twice during the GNR run.

I got your douche!

You might be right there my friend……although I’m sure I could find a GnR speculation thread with a bit of diggin’ somewhere

Heard ts was dropping next Monday. We will see.

If JJP is going to sell CEs at $15k+
Will Pinsiders at Marketplace sell them for $20k++

I agree.

The game is bound to cost more.

The cost of lumber, labor, shipping, computer components, and other parts has all gone up by a significant margin. Plus, their main competitor raised their prices by a significant margin.

Not only that, but I don't think it's wild to say that the CE will jump by an even larger margin after JJP saw the half assed EHoH 40th edition sell out in minutes at $25k.

It annoys me that people are jumping into a speculation thread and complaining about people speculating on the price. It's all in good fun. If they don't find it amusing to speculate, they don't have to. They need to leave the people who find it fun peace.

I agree and to assume that JJP is reading these threads and making business decisions based upon what people speculate is ridiculous.

i wonder if CE will have signatures like Wonka and GNR?

It’s ridiculous to think they DON’T read these threads. It’s also ridiculous if you think none of their business decisions are based off any collected info from pinside or social media. Why wouldn’t they? It’s free information that didn’t require any questionnaires or solicitation.

For LE, due to qty, I guess JJP will to sell to the market, not pinside. Pinside is a very small and niche enthusiasts group that (imo) really won't swing JJP one way or the other... Now the CE probably will go to mostly those that will pay any price, both entusiasts AND those where price doesnt matter anyway.
Pinside speculation concerns is silly, JJP is a boutique mftr, knows their market, knows what they have, and its not their first rodeo. Coming off the GnR experience and what blindsided them as they left money on the table plus throw in the current crazier market with all cost increases of goods and materials and supply chain challenges adding to their BOM increase this isnt going to be pretty any way it unfolds.... and so I fully expect them to stick it to you CE guys.
Why do they want to sell out first day or even first week on CE? Set the number high enough that it makes most people cringe, creates sensational headlines, and includes uber margin they can reap from the uber cash heavy (and there are a LOT more now) such as those willing to pay $20k+ for a POTC. A common mindset is that depreciation on cash is going to be faster than depreciation on a rare asset like a pinball machine so parking $20k in a rare asset that is in highest demand I have ever seen since the lockdown is considered "smart."
Downvote me if you like, but it makes sense to me for them to open the CE at $19,995

You may be the only person that price makes sense to.

Pricing the CE at $20k would mean maybe 50-100 CE sales on day 1 leaving JJP to guess at how many games they need to build. They wouldn't be able to sell 500-800 CE games at that price.

I don't expect JJP will price CEs at $20k.

That being said, Stern's EHoH 40th, a game that already have 2 previous other collectors editions sold before hand was easily able to sell 200 games at $25K within a day, and they barely did anything to the game... some powder coating, a new shooter, a new apron, and some new side decals... it didn't even include a topper. JJPs CEs do tend to be a bit better of an offer, in terms of additions they add on.

I personally do think they'd be able to sell about 500 games at that price point. Though, probably not many more than 500.

My expectation is that JJP will both increase the cost of the CE and the quantity. Something along the lines of $15k a game and 1000 units.

There are a couple of issues regarding your statement about EHoH40 - 1) It didn't sell out in a day - some distributors still have it in stock after 6 months now. 2) There was no MSRP - while a few did sell at $25k, some sold as low as $17k. The rest were in between that range. 3) EHoH40 was a run of 199 games. Less games = more exclusivity = higher price.

I think you have a good guess at TSCE being priced at $15k - but 1000 games would be risky at that price point. That's how many Stern makes of their LE at a much lower $10.5k price.

Hell, why not $17500? I'm sure JJP would throw in some extra washers and glue for any playfield defects since it's the owners fault they happen.

I think the last stern le were 11,200

Man I used to love checking out new posts in this thread, gettin' all excited to own this title.
But now... Every time I click, it's just another dose of reality and coming to terms that my wallet won't be able to swing it. Probably.

MSRP on Godzilla LE was $10,499.

Rush LE MSRP shows $11,099 on Stern's site.

LOL - I am still waiting on my Rush so it doesn't exist yet in mind apparently. I am wrong, you are right.

LOL. I'm sure the next title will be even higher MSRP for the LE.

Why even limit the CE? It's their most profitable machine, and it's not a "Limited" edition, but a "Collector's" edition. Make as many as people want. Flipping problem solved.

I know that is a rhetorical question, but for the non-monks I think the answer is found outside of Tibet and located in a basic economics principle of supply & demand. In short, because it would drive down the price.

Not sure. It will DEFINITELY drive down the otherwise outrageous price on the secondary market (which is the aim). It's still a limited run. They will stop making them at some point. And they'll sell more than 500 at $15k or whatever, so same diff at retail, except that everyone that wants one gets one. If it has an additional mech or mechs over the LE, then they will sell at lot more than whatever they are limiting it to artificially.

Of course all of this also hinges on if people WANT the Toy Story movie they actually licensed and made, but that will affect the LE and the CE sales. I just hope Lawlor gives something actually NEW mech-wise instead of shopping in the Lawlor & B/W greatest hits vault for mechs and design cues.

This is a key point for the demand side of the equation. 500 of something that is a dud is 500 too many.

But if there's no CE number, there's no problem. Make what the market wants. There are not enough CE-specific parts where you couldn't just have them on hand without it being cost-prohibitive because the excess price of the CE over what the BOM cost is covers a lot of sins.

covers a lot of sins.... love that... and yes it will.

Let's see what the CE & LE look like and we will have more context.
As a comparative side note, the GnR difference wasn't compelling enough to me comparing those BOMs so I wanted the LE.
If I had really wanted a CE, I would have bought one on secondary, but I just didn't want it.
I got the benefit to put the mods in my LE and exceeded what a CE delivers (to me) for the same money.
Hopefully there is a lot more than economic disparities between versions with TS.