The issue, for those of use that have owned pins and been in the hobby for a long time, is that we remember packed machines for under $5k with things that interacted with the ball in interesting ways.
The prices keep rising and what you physically get for your money keeps dropping.
That's why there is negativity

you mean like crappy playfields -
yeah, you are going to want to make a warranty claim on that

That I completely understand. The prices are getting borderline ridiculous and $15k for a TS4 CE is high. I would have passed on it but I wanted to dump my Mando and I got a decent trade in value and the CE at retail so, I jumped in. There is no doubt this machine is expensive and light on mechs especially when you compare it to a Godzilla for example which is a mech loaded, Elwin designed all in all great pin. I have a feeling the Disney License for this, TS4 or not didn't come cheap and I also think Disney told them which Toy Story and exactly what assets they could get. It would not surprise me if this game had one of the highest license fees ever, if not the highest to date.

I would be shocked if he is losing on that deal. I'll bet he is asking for $1,000 on top of what he is in for.

Agreed. Flippers suck anyway.

Half way through setting this up in the corporate office. Sucked into meetings.

First thoughts... it came with a wrench for assembly! It doesn't fit the leg bolts!

Stickers are very detailed, but the application isn't as good as other pins. Headphone jack and blue tooth! Comes with leg bolt protectors.

Excited.

Migrating future updates to the club page.

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Interesting. Even if it fit perfectly, I can't imagine removing AND reinstalling eight bolts with a can opener. For the price they could include a socket wrench.

I’m not sure that there is so much hate, more like people are saying they don’t think it’s worth 2 Stern pros.

I understand people want something new so they buy xyz the new pin but in 1-2 months or so the next Stern will be the new pin and then it’ll be Spooky or something else.

I like TS4 it’s fine, I’ll play it on location, but it’s not anything out of this world great, I mean it has nothing that hasn’t been done before.

That Bluetooth and headphone jacks and volume control are nice. However I rarely use on my Woz. It’s great to have especially if you want to be in quire mode for some reason.

Buying a pinball machine and not even owning a socket? Seems like thats where we are.

You are 100% correct. I texted with him, nice guy but yes the $1000 is on top of the $15k, so you would be paying $16k for the CE.

Quick thoughts after 3 games on the Toy Story I just set up for the company office.

An unexcusable number of ball hangups. I had to remove the glass 4 times in the 3 games I got to play. Maybe it just needs dialed in. It is level left to right and at a 6.5 degree pitch.

The light show in this thing is amazing and they did a good job with the animations on the screen.

I would venture to say that the attract mode on this is the single best I have ever seen in any game ever.

There really are not that many shots on this machine.

Have not had a reason to look at the mini display in the machine yet.

I did not read a tutorial and am still not really sure what I am doing yet.

I have had more fun on first plays of other machines, but will give this one more time and report back. I will say that it is a looker.

Looking forward to playing more games on this in the next few days.

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I texted with him to clarify exactly this. The $1000 is on top of the price of the pin. So the total would be $16k for this TS4 CE

I don’t think he read the room correctly.

Most expensive JJP ever
Most CE produced ever
No FOMO
No toys
Nothing on the CE you can’t replicate that’s not on the LE except a weak topper and some extra callouts.

I said it’s a fine pin but $16K plus shipping that’s something else. People have to say this CE is worth $4000 more than the LE. I don’t.

I know it’s a few years past but I bought AFM LE for $8k plus shipping and that had an honest to goodness topper. Can’t see spending twice that on a TS4 CE.

Based off of my 3 plays... I'd take 2 Stern pros if I had the room. Will report back after more plays. However, this may be better for office casuals.

Or if the machine is literally 8 feet from the door of the HR managers office.

I needed it... the machine came a day early and I didn't have my tools.

Of note... there was a huge warning label that only qualified service personel can access the panel to plug in the machine.

Thats right... a warning label for only qualified personnel to plug it in.

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Ugh.. yeah, I know what your talking about regarding the games layout. I’ve only put down my deposit and still assessing if this is right for me.
Guess I’m doing a road trip to play this game to decide.

Maybe I can find someone who would take over my order to get my deposit back.

Decisions, decisions…

I'd check pitch and level again, and barring that look it over closely. The TS4 I played never had any hangups over multiple games.

Exactly, and why a CLOSED END wrench? At least make it open ended. I mean I include wrenches or ball end hex keys (depending) with $130 kits if they're needed for assembly so people don't have to buy one if they don't have one. On a $12,000 machine, they could include a $1 ratcheting wrench if they want to include needed assembly tools (an endeavor I support).

1,000 CEs for JJP is ridiculous
Throw in a delivered price of $15,500
And a Toy Story 4 theme

I don’t think there is any way JJP sells 1,000 CEs

When it came time to put up the $$$ there were a ton of dropouts

They had a hard time unloading 500 Wonka CEs at $12,500. Had a close out sale to my distro who bought them all.

Wonka is an excellent game btw

Who knows, this market is crazy and pin buyers are fickle

Yeah, I recall there were many Wonka CE’s around and then poof.. all gone.

It was a fun game when I played it. I’m torn as I’m considering picking up a WOZ.

The wife is pushing me to buy WOZ considering “Bang for Buck” is on WOZ side and I am thinking a road trip is needed very soon to test drive this game out. That will help me make my ultimate decision.

FYI, I wanted TS4 for ease and a family friendly game, but the wife put things into perspective for me.

WOZ was the first game I bought. Still sitting there. Had a lot of fun with it years ago. Don’t play it much anymore.

Play that Toy Story and see what you like best.

If you did get a WOZ find one with the Monkey mod and witch mod by Gouvia

Totally agree, celebrate the sale....but then don't hide the final sale price by marking it private (this is the flaw). All sales on Pinside should show the final sale price and not allow for the seller to mark private. All of those market archives that are marked private essentially mean the seller did NOT get what they were asking. Otherwise, why wouldn't you "shout it from the rooftops"?

You must have missed my point. Dudes who overpay for things don't want you bragging about how much they overpaid. I sold my Godzilla premium for $12,500 or so (asking price) but purposefully didn't include the amount because if the script was flipped I wouldn't want someone knowing I was the sucker that overpaid or knowing I have more money than sense.

Gotcha Tilt. I still say either way (high sell, low sell) the final sales price should be transparent, for all to see. Then maybe people will stop being dumb asses......Ah hell, who am I kidding, this hobby is full of em'.

Well, there actually *was* FOMO when we were all dreaming of laser fights with Zurg, slinky dog ramps, Sid bash toys, Buzz hot wheels loops, alien claws, etc, etc

I’m thinking anybody that buys pinball machines generally has more money than sense. Especially today

Yeah, I wouldn’t use this thread to judge. The same people that hated it before they played it, still hate it. I like it. It’s a fun game. I have a CE ordered, and after playing it on location, took home an LE (so I guess I have two). It’s easy to play and have fun (for all) but hard to master (for the normal people). lighting is awesome, music and call-outs are great (if you like the theme). And no I don’t work for JJP or have any horse in the race (i own more sterns than JJP).

True and understandable, but I was just talking to my 13-year old son today about when a mid-eighties Porsche 930 turbo went zero to 60 in under 6 seconds and cost $50k, now a model 3 tesla (cheap one) does it in 2.5 seconds. That same model Porsche today does it in 2 seconds and costs $200k (with a 6-12 month wait!), and doesn’t even have the b/a fender flares! Not sure looking to the good ole’ days disqualifies a machine (or car) from being good or great. My humble opinion!

Throw that thing away!

I don’t play my WOZ either, but I can’t find that damn monkey mod for the life of me!

Good luck replicating the upgraded playfield & Radcals & art blades & 150+ additional individually controlled LEDs….

Model 3 do not do it in 2.5 seconds. Closer to 3 and change.

And don't do it on a road trip unless you want to add an extra 3 hours stop at the charging station.

15-20 minutes at a supercharger will give you about half range (~200 miles). No need to wait 3 hours with a Tesla to chub up a limp battery.

Tesla still sucks. Prius sucks. All electric cars suck.

Long live the internal combustion engine and all of its sonic glory.

Death to electric cars!

Really nothing that special imo.. and the extra 150 cabinet leds were replicated on g@r le and can also be done on this if someone really wants them. Topper is best part of ce but it's lack luster this go around.

My BMW Z4 does 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and "only" cost me $70k (and the engine sounds amazing). It feels like a f**king rollercoaster taking off...

...and I've recently realized I can't really use that feature very often and/or legally, so who the f**k cares?

Teslas are dangerous because they kill blind people who can't hear them coming.

And now I'm off to think about what all of this has to do with TS4...I'm not really sure why all these threads wind up circling back to cars.

I owned a V8 M3 that was not as quick more like 0-60 in 4 seconds but still was pretty darn quick. I found that I couldn’t use the top half of its potential where I live. Between getting stuck behind other drivers and law enforcement as well as just plain safe driving, I ended up driving it like a regular car. I switched out to a rather slow BRZ at half the price and end up able to drive as fast (regarding traffic and law enforcement) and had more fun at it because it seemed like I was pushing it rather than holding it back.

I thought the same until I felt ludicrous mode! I go between a Model S and a TRX as a daily, so I’m living out there on either fringe. Lol

The relativity is because people don’t like TS4 because you used to be able to buy a more mech/toy heavy game for $5k. cars being a comparison that most people can appreciate, prices have inflated as much or more than pins.

Are you the guy who always drives by in some noisemaking piece of shit when I'm trying to relax?

Care are the default hobby for uninteresting people.

You should take this to the "I hate EVs" thread.

If you want a good laugh today, think back to when Stern released Transformers. Everybody said I can’t believe it doesn’t have a toy and were personally insulted that it didn’t have a transformer toy in a transformers pin. Well, turns out the game sucked, but it had TONS of mechanical action in both upper playfields, a pop up ramp and Optimus ball lock. Game can be found today for $5k-6k and I see the value. If the game were to be released as Stern’s next, the base game would be an LE and cost $11k, and people would fight each other to buy it.

The best ways to avoid paying a bunch for a current game is 1) playing games on location or 2) buying a used game manufactured prior to 2021.

You sir are quite kind.

He is not making that mod any longer. I want one as well.

Don’t remind me. I had a chance to buy TFLE for $3900 iirc but I didn’t know if it was fun because it had been talked it down so much. In hindsight I should have got it as there was not much or any room to fall lower in price.

Remember this was when you could get a SM or Tspp for $45-4700 used.

With hindsight you could have bought every model of every Stern release, as you’d know prices would double within the next eight years. But buying pinball is not supposed to be a sound financial decision nor have an roi calculated for it. Those are constructs we develop to deal with business realities of the pinball market.

Was a day-1 hater of transformers, believing Gomez (most notable Stern designer with a pedigree of being a toy designer) not giving any toys in Tranformers theme was a hard pass. I played it a lot and liked watching the left ramp twist, but hated the right ramp for being useless chimp flipping. The ball lock with optos was very good, while often misreading the ball, and that was after the drop targets were downed and those frequently misbehaved. Balls would get trapped in a couple of locations. But the use of boring, wood chopping and mind numbing code was a recipe sure to upset those with a weak stomach or projecting reflux issues.

Playing one today can be a bit mind bending as code has an “old-time” simple feel to it. This is nothing like Stern’s current coding of rules, rewards, jackpots/supers, lcd content etc. or you may find yourself saying TF is pretty fun and an LE is less than a Stern pro sounds good. It also costs less than 2 JJP LE’s and it has (more mechanical action and as many toys as TS4)

I was getting Spiderman NIB for $3300 back then. Those were the days.

Is this the official “you’re gonna need a 2nd playfield” marketing photo from JJP?

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