I agree with the thought that this will take a dive in resale. I loved being a new owner and for a while just cycling through games because everything was a risk free trial with the way prices were going. That absolutely feels like it’s changing and my wife and I had a discussion before buying TS4 about how, if we sold it at some point, we would almost certainly lose a few thousand. I did end up getting one because I was able to get a good deal involving a trade. At least I know what I’m into. I have a 4 and 2 year old and they were really excited to play for the first time yesterday.

Exactly this. I've mentioned this before the percentage lost on NIB compared to buying gaming console is much lower (even though cost is much higher).

Perhaps some cannot stomach losing $1-3K on a NIB machine. It would suck for me as well, but when it comes with NIB that is a risk many have to remember.

I'm curios how NIB prices will be in 1-2 years with Stern, Spooky, etc... (Not JJP as we already see they are steadily increasing price until TS4!!!).

Toy Story 4 LE's are going to be selling for $10k within 6 months - a year with CE prices holding at $15k versus increasing IMO. With each price increase the amount people are willing to pay on the secondary market decreases. We've already seen this with a majority of Stern premiums as prices have approached $9k. How many people want to travel to someone's house with $10k+ in cash? That's only going to occur for select games and one's that are rarer then basically an unlimited number of Toy Story 4 LE's.

Yup, you are not wrong on this observation as well (about 20-30% loss for NIB LE resell). That is why I opted to buy a CE in hopes if there is a % loss it will be less than LE's. Of course you need to find the right buyer if there will be one down the road.

Also, I agree about bringing major $$$$ to a pinsider or some random dude's house. That is also another reason of my desire to purchase NIB and not deal with that.

Guess I'll face my fears when I'm ready to by WoZ.

It's silly, as you point out. With pinball, you win some, you lose some. If manufacturers overproduce mediocre, overpriced games, it will effect sales (no doubt). GNRLE is a great example...they overproduced this game. If someone bought NIB for 11k, they will likely have to sell for 9.5k (which is what mine sold for recently). If they have a wonky PF, they will likely take a bigger hit.

Kind of off topic but you guys are mentioning that you expect TS to lose a few grand in the used market. With all the price Inflation going on right now , do you think BW titles are in for a tumble as well ? Or do they stand a better chance of holding ? I'm seeing creatures sell for 9-10 k lol

Are you seeing them sell. Or are the listers just taking down adds because they sat for so long?
What they say and what they sell for are two seperate things.

I believe the highly sought after B/W games that aren't being reproduced (by CGC) will remain strong. All about title and condition. I only own 2 B/W games at the moment (WH20 and STTNG)...IMHO, these 2 have been under appreciated for years and are starting to get more respect (in terms of price).

A lot of them are selling but the amount is private

Disagree. I would recommend playing the game, watching gameplay video or trying to sift through a review of someone who actually played the game. Neither one of the hosts of this podcast had played the game. One host had only seen Toy Story 1 and the other said he was a fan of 1-3 and saw parts of 4. He also said that Toy Story 4 was the worst reviewed and performing by far of all the movies. Just check rotten tomatoes and box office to fact check that one (4 in last place review but not by much). Also, lots of complaining about the tablet which could be justified if they had played the game and determined that it doesn't add value to the experience. They basically just summarized the common gripes on pinside (whether valid or not). I would prefer to watch a potential shill review along with gameplay videos but to each his own...

Fools

Guess you like watching Shark Vacuum and the Juiceman on TV informercials.

I love the Pinball Show but last episode was unlistenable. It was the Super Shill Happy Hour barf..
The Craig Bobby thing was just to to much.. I had to turn it off. - How much $ has JJP padded
this game price to drive sales and this much hype.

I did like the reveal stream... Very cool SPOOKY this is how you need to do it.

I've played game it's a super simple smooth shooter with amazing eye candy that just isn't for 50% of the people in this room.

played an LE toy story on friday evening. when did JJP change the in-lane dividers from wire ball guides to these blade-like things?
the left [blade] was tilted just enough that all of the balls that went down the left side were stuck and you had to bang the heck out of the cabinet in order to free it. I find it hard to believe that it shifted during shipping, and like stern, only a few games are spot checked when they are on the assembly lines.

Pretty sure Delt played the game and left a rather lengthy review.

I think the main reason it will lose value is because they are making 5k of them and won’t sell out anytime soon. The only reason to buy uses would be if it were at a discount. That doesn’t apply to BW titles.

Interesting anecdote about how a licensor can influence a game for the worse. From: https://www.cbr.com/lion-king-brutally-difficult-platformer/

Most gamers, whether they've played it or not, know that The Lion King is hard, but what most people don't know is that the developers made the game extremely difficult on purpose. Disney actually told the developers to make the game so difficult that people wouldn't be able to beat it during a rental period. The game came out when rental stores were immensely popular, and Disney didn't want people to get more than halfway through the game so that the chances of them buying it would be higher. The developers disagreed with Disney's decision, but went back and tweaked the levels to make things more difficult even though the game targeted a younger audience. A few developers would later apologize to fans for how hard the game is.

He did, but the podcast he recommended was rather uninformative. Or at least it was nothing we haven’t seen/read here.

I believe what you are seeing is the result of the pins being on angle.

Here is my unsolicited take from someone that was never going to be a NIB customer. It looks like a layout I would like. I tend to not like obstructions in the middle of the playfield unless they are activated. I believe I would really like the pop-up ramp, posts, and troll (whatever the character is called). I would reserve comment on the iPad screen until I get a chance to play, which may be a very long time. The art looks right for the theme. The market will decide if the price is right or not.

One last thing, about the TS4 theme. Maybe Pat just really liked the carnival idea and was able to focus on that, which is why we have TS4. Seems like focusing on one movie would be easier to reign in a design and the newest movie would be thought of as being the most current. Only a few people really know, and hopefully the story will come out eventually.

A pinball buddy of mine made a great point that I haven't seen .

Some of the missing characters from the pin could have required additional licensing correct ? Because they aren't original characters by Disney but Products from Mattel and Hasbro etc ?

Potato head is in the game on the screen

Already second code update!
Looking like great support for this game.
https://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/ts/ts4_changelog.txt?fbclid=IwAR1Knor6-jMwfIg5xd0xB0wRWxIP9nbAs4_Ll9F8fu0PQf5-6RAFGx3Wd-Y&fs=e&s=cl

Short answer: YES

== Game Code
* (bugfix) updated Buzz Quick Multiball to fix potential crash
* (bugfix) updated drop target to not mark itself bad on power up
* updated default Caboom Scene Played difficulty to 6 needed (previously 5)
* updated default Gabby Gabby Multiball to 5 hits needed
* updated Carnival Multiball rule and scoring
* Scorbit achievement descriptions updated
* various other bug fixes and improvements

That's it? Maybe they do consider the code to be essentially finished.

I does fit the bill as a somewhat easier pin, maybe more fun for casual players. I keep Stern Potc around for this reason (half the price of TS4).

I played 10-12 games on TS4 LE last week it was fine but not something I would buy. It’s great to play but doesn’t equal $12K in my book. Especially as there are now 2 on location nearby that’s more than I’ll ever need.

Sorry to interrupt but if anyones interested, we have some Really Nice Blades that match the game really well here:

https://www.pingraffix.com/product-page/toy-story-4-inspired-inner-art-blades

Thanks!
Joe

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My wife would keep some she really likes, and she's only 34. I trained her well

Edit: Let me add I have a lot of life insurance too, sooooo...

Yeah would not be surprised if they say the code is nearly completed. I think that is the general consensus.

However, this information is a little concerning… it’s like when in Metallica they lowered the default requirements to qualify for the modes.

I guess our hopes in getting more mini-wizard modes injected seems unlikely. The main one I like is after completing X number of multiball you are rewarded. With mini-wizard mode.

What you have just proven is … 1) first impressions last and 2) you can never make a good second impression. Not bad for a half day’s work.

I'm going to Cidercade this afternoon with a set of good headphones to try it out.

B/W games already have a reputation, and a good chunk of them are bolted to the floor in collections or barcades. There will never be a mass sell-off that will affect the market. You want a classic game? Pry it from someone for the right price. Much different situation than a new game that people bought before playing it. In a situation like that, there are usually lots who want it gone for something different - and that’s what affects prices. Supply/demand.

Every once in a while I stumble into one

So is Slinky Dog!

I think one more is coming soon, my Scorbit is wonky.

Yeah, Karl DeAngelo said another is coming soon that will fix the Scorbit issues.

I liked it!

Nice succinct review Derek!

This is the single biggest flaw with regards to the Pinside Marketplace. The market archives should show the 'listing price' vs. 'sold price'. Maybe that will have some impact slowing the pinflation train down a bit. Some listings out there are just ludacris.

Not much point in elaborating here, right? It'll just get labeled as simping for JJP, I'll get called a shill, etc.

I wouldn't call it a flaw. If you overpay for my game I listed high I wouldn't want to shout it from the rooftops. I want to keep you as a customer! Of course it doesn't list the username but you can deduce from feedback, owners club posts, and 'pm' comments on fs threads

I'm glad you're amused but it was just a big disappointment for many that the fourth movie was the theme, less game for more money and no new toys/mechs. I will flip it on location eventually and have fun, just not enough there for some to justify purchasing it. Munsters would not have had a code update if the criticism didn't happen so some good can come from negativity, same with GB and Spooky getting the message to release games more complete at the start.

Looks like those flipper margins are getting pretty thin

TS4CE (resized).png

Which means potentially wise financial move for JJP. They have effectively taken the flipper profits on the high end machines. Maybe there will be fewer flippers on the collector machines and they will actually go to collectors.

Does this mean he's loosing $1000? Wasn't the deposit through JJP for a CE $2k?

$2,500.. yes, he is losing $1,500 on his deposit.

Yes and no....now that theres way too much risk to the flippers my guess is JJP CE's will normalize like prior to GNR.....prior to GNR JJP never sold out CE's and they sat on the market for years.

The deposit amount varied by distributor. Mine charged $3500 deposit on the CE.

You would have to PM and ask fattrain what his terms are. I interpreted it as $1k on top
of the $15k otherwise it would have been sold by now.

Ah, thanks for correction and fair points. This is my first time NIB purchase through a distributor and was not aware it entirely depends on the distro.

If your buying from a Flipper the risk is on you. I never understood the NIB Pinball machine market.

What if the game doesn't work or has a defect. Will the JJP still honor the warranty ( whatever that is ) without the original dealer / distro?
Makes no sense.

I’ve never bought from a flipper, but I bought my Star Wars in used market..

As long as the flipper is nice enough to tell you where they bought it, you can use that distro to act on your behalf when issuing Warrantee requests.

That is what CoinTaker did for me.