Been too long since I played WOF, but I'd say it's comparable to Big Guns.

Best comparison is trying to plunge up into the Gem switch on Tron. Very similar plunge strength & drop-off angle.

Trying to derail the thread here. Im just gonna throw it out there and say that Big Guns is one of my favorite games and a part of that is the oh so satisfying plunge shot. If this is similar, I will at least like that

I feel the same way about GNR. Four shots from the third main playfield flipper, surprisingly fun upper playfield with multiple shots that all feel different, custom and innovative designs for standard elements like drumsticks for habitrails and guitar neck for a ball lock.

A pin doesn't need mechs to be innovative; DP's snikt shot is one of my favorite unique designs and it's just a creative use of standard hardware. But I'm struggling to see anything on TS4 that truly does something new or significantly better on the playfield. The jump shot in NGG has more going on (hit the ramp, get the jump, and nail the hole in one if you're really precise), and NGG's gofer bash targets also offer more (two bash targets that interrupt the ramps and also switch into ball locks).

Agreed that code could be what brings this whole pin together and helps it stand out, but that didn't seem like the case watching it on multiple streams. Looks like the shots are smooth; it's just hard to justify premium pricing if that's the best thing going for TS4.

Heading to a local pinball museum soon that tends to also get new releases pretty quickly, hopefully they have a TS4 to try.

NGG also has the spinning wheel placed so that it can accelerate slam ramp shots, and you have more variety to aim for (the thru-shot to the left, the cart and the hole-in-one). Really looks like NGG does the slam ramp thing a whole lot better than TS4.

I don’t need your explanation. Your type feels the need to drag pinball into some right wing crap and I voiced my opinion without soliciting yours.

I don't know what is going on in this thread but I'm done reading it. Viva la godzilla and alien.

Caucasian2Step has weighed in, most ratings on pinside, so worth a look.

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/jjp-toy-story-4-le/ratings

For all those who haven’t played it yet it’s worth a read. Bottom line - you have to play it before you buy into all the bs above (for better or worse). Then form an opinion.

Now that we've seen what Toy Story is, does this mean the handcuffs are back on for Steve Richie at JJP? They made such a fuss about him being handcuffed at Stern and how he'll be able to do so much more with a JJP BOM... But what is a JJP BOM at this point?

Toy Story 4 Hands On Impressions (after playing it for an hour or so). Shout out to @helicon brewery in Pittsburgh. Best pinbar period.

Toy Story 4 - Home edition. It's my new name for this game after seeing and playing it in person.

If this was JJP's new line of games, similar to stern's and was priced accordingly, I would think about buying it. It's fun. It shoots well. But it's obviously been stripped down so that it fits under the new home edition line that JJP kicked off for this......oh wait - no, this game is 12-15k. What is going on here? Didn't they work on this game for two years+?

And so the cycle continues. My initial impressions and now having hands on with this game is that it's too expensive and it's WAY too easy (which was surprising to me). More on that later but anyone that gives you their impressions and doesn't talk about cost to value is either a distributor selling you the game, a hype machine that appears to be giving impressions but is still just selling you the game or a pinball collector trying to convince themselves they didn't make a mistake.

But....Toy Story 4 is not a bad game by any means. It's does a lot of things well and if it was coupled with old school JJP mechs and about 3k more of BOM, this could have been something really good. Unfortunately, it's just so clear that JJP is testing out the market and stretching those margins as much as they could. It's simpler in every way and could have been so much more satisfying. Here are the quick hits of what works and what doesn't, along with some general observations:

+Great call outs. I really enjoyed Tim Allen's work along with Tom's brother. When I think about Pats other similar game (Wonka), TS4 is stronger although Wonka has the worst narrator in modern pinball history only remediated by the CE edition which thankfully brings in someone else to offset.

+Shoots well and is fun. Oh the most cliché phrase in pinball that evidently now costs 12-15k, it truly does shoot well and is fun to play. Never doubted that either. It's way more open than Pat's other two however I still enjoy shooting Wonka more and DI would be third just b/c of that moving target so close to the flippers but all three are really fun to shoot. No one does a better captive ball than Pat. Loved it on Wonka, love it here too.

+Code is straight forward and very easy to follow. It was quite refreshing walking up to a new JJP game and having no questions about what to shoot. Call outs tell you what to shoot, that ipad in the back corner also tells you what to do, etc. Now, on the flip side, this led to a really simple experience that I'll outline in the negative column but if they're targeting kids with 12-15k to spend or really bad pinball players like myself, mission accomplished.

+I liked some of the music - friend in me and some others worked well with the modes.

+I enjoyed the forky combo task. Satisfying to hit all three in a row.

+I'm a sucker for hot rails and glad they continued to use them. Looks good especially on the fireworks (wizard).

+Kaboom shot is cool - although not as exciting as I thought it would be, still a plus. NGG Hole in One takes it for sure as the ball really doesn't seem to get that high and you either brick or the ball always makes it however it's such a quick little shot that is pretty easy to make.

+Speaking of, great sound effect on the kaboom shot. however

- The game has some of the worst sound effects I've experienced ever in pinball. Wonka was close but the crown has been passed to TS4. The left spinner (bell) and right spinner (Woody's shuffle) take the cake for the worst offenders. Problem is they go off all the time.

- Biggest surprise for me is how easy this game is. I'm not very good at pinball and after my 10th? game I was already at the wizard mode. See pic below. Now I understand there are two wizard modes and the second required me to play through it all again. For me, that is very unsatisfying as it’s just filler and repetitive and lazy. Code is just too simple. Good players and up will absolutely smoke this game bc simple code and…….

- The shots are waaaaaay too open. The left and right ramp are insanely easy to hit. I understand JJP is targeting a younger crowd but this is why, along with the complete lack of mechs, I believe this would be a great home edition game. The scoop is easy too. The hardest shot BY FAR is the skill shot on the plunge. At first I was going to have this as a plus but after achieving it (two times only), it just wasn't satisfying. I will give credit to Pat that the geometry to even get this to work is impressive so I left it as neutral for now.

- Absolutely no mechs. I know - obvious but so gut wrenching when you actually see it in person and realize they put little lights around a really cheap ipad screen and just threw it into the playfield. The screen is massive - the section it takes is huge and it absolutely sucks. No problem reading or seeing it though - angle on it was fine. The cheap cake topper toys are so embarrassing and I don't even know what to say about that horrendous cheap plastic thing over the left ramp return. What in the world were they doing for two years????Mods can't come soon enough but for 12-15k, what do you expect? They already gave you two spinners and speech from three people! Buy Buy Buy!

- Main screen is the simplest I've seen from JJP yet. Due to the IPAD, there probably wasn't a need to make the other giant screen as extravagant as it usually is. Compared to wonka, it's so simple and muted. Sad to see. Not the coders fault I guess - there just isn't a need for two screens unless you're trying to reduce cost.

- That little upper right flipper is the biggest disappointment for me gameplay wise. It just doesn't feel good and the lack of full size is apparent on every flip. I guess they couldn't get a normal size to to fit the layout but it doesn't have that same kinetic satisfaction. My best comparison is the loop on maiden with the top left little flipper. Yes it works and gets the job done but it doesn't pack the same punch. btw - that shot can hit three....scoop (hard), captive ball (not hard) and full loop (harder than it should be). Kick out to the little right flipper is OK although a little wonky some times.

- Shots on the left side feel very boring. The left ramp is so wide open it's comical. There is a left target shot that just falls flat and that ball lock shot on the left but that's about it. That IPAD on the left just really takes the life out of it and is such a missed opp. Speaking of the ball lock on the left....

- Super lazy ball lock - compared to other JJPs, I just got no satisfaction seeing the locks occur. Compared to wonka's lock, it's just so much simpler and less satisfying. Common theme throughout this game.

- No magnets at all that I could tell which is an absolute joke. Shameful jjp at this price point.

- Some asset comments.....the videos have no speech in them (from what I could remember). This might change with updated code but I doubt it. Also seeing the characters we all wanted more of (like Mr. P, slinky dog, etc) as collectable after beating a mode and just seeing them static, is almost a tease. Getting TS4 vs 1, 2 and even 3 - such a disappointment.

- Modes are super straight forward and lacked creativity. One mode was hit the giant left ramp 3 or 4 times. Sweet. Yes, the wizard mode was better and there are some others but majority just left me bored and with the lack of anything wowing my eyes, I almost turned the machine off after reaching wizard mode 1 b/c doing it again was boring.

- Carnival theme is WAY too much. It felt like I was playing a carnival game with guest star TS characters. When the road trip MB hits, it's so satisfying to get away from the Carnival atmosphere. Why isn't there more of this????

- Virtual pinball on the ipad was absolutely terrible. Framerate was low, physics felt off, everything about it was bad and it just reminded me of what could of been .

- And the most important.....COST. So much taken away and still asking for 12-15k makes this a nonstarter for me. With no mechs and a really easy layout, I predict prices will fall hard on this game as flippers get burned on the CE and LE buyers get bored, making that upfront NIB sting even more.

General:

:Drain heavy big time on the left outlane. If you end up getting unlimited kickback, the game becomes even easier. Right outlane as well. I maybe had two balls go sdtm - very very few.
:Gabby didn't register on the left, just the right.
:PF had no art along the posts and clear washers. Didn't see any damage yet but brand new.
:Flippers felt exactly the same as other JJPs. Don't be fooled by the hype machines telling you differently.

We deserve better for 12-15k. Maybe one day the full non home edition will be released with a layout that is fun, shots smooth but also has mechs and is based on TS1+2….
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Cliff notes?

It's a hands-on review, with detailed & specific praise/criticism, the thing everyone claims to want. Read it. Or just wait & play your game, whichever.

In my case, I didn't talk about it because 1. the coil counters already beat that topic to death, and 2. there's zero chance I'm buying a $12-15k game, so my review was strictly from the vantage point of a guy dropping a couple bucks on location.

Anyway, I agree with the VAST majority of your review, pretty much dead-on, except for one thing... I like the Woody spinner sound.

Agreed. Too much unarticulated criticism here. We don’t all look at this from a buy or sell perspective. Feedback based primarily on price is getting old.

Nailed it. My son played it today. Very easy to play. Im going to play it tomorrow at Arcade Monsters.

The price is ridiculous. Avengers IQ is better shooter. If you bought a CE your probably questioning your decision or having second thoughts.

Too bad they didnt put more into it.

Update. I did play it today for 2 hours. It's really fun layout. Not ground breaking. But shots much better than I expected. Well done Pat. The variety of modes is good. Goal is to bring woody together with his girlfriend by hitting both spinners. I liked it.

Wash, rinse and repeat. I consider the source. Delt plays “an hour or so” and he’s got it figured out. BS. It took him longer than that to write the review

Zero chance it fits your collection style from what I see. Justification is important though. Bash what you don’t have and what you can’t get

Most important? All you had to say was “COST”. I agree

From someone that isn’t buying a game and flips them like Halloween candy, “we deserve better”

You don’t deserve anything. Nobody does

So jump off your high horse

I got to play this game last night for more than an hour. I haven’t read very much of this thread and none of the reviews from people who have actually played it. Haven’t seen any of the streams either so as not to bias my opinion before I played it.

Game code is early so I can’t really say too much about it. JJP code always gets much better as time goes on so it would be unfair to say it felt shallow or unpolished considering how new it is. I would prefer that starting a mode was done by hitting the scoop instead of the left ramp though.

Flippers are my biggest gripe on past JJP games and this game is no different. They got progressively worse as more people came in to play. After a foursome of slap happy newbs, I played right after and noticed that the flippers were especially weak. The slings were also really weak. Probably should be turned up in settings. But JJP has got to redesign their whole system to account for not only sloppy flippers but the obvious flipper fade after prolonged use.

I only hit the skill shot once. Seemed like a fluke. At least half the time I hit the woody saucer from the left flipper the ball popped right out and didn’t register. Only softer shots stayed in the saucer.

The upper right flipper only seemed to have the one loop shot. Any upper flipper should have at a minimum 2 shots to go for.

The jump ramp was not very satisfying to me. There were either two results possible. Either you bricked the shot against one of the posts on the ramp or else you made it through those posts and completed the shot. The game just funnels the ball through on any shot that gets air. The only shot to hit is a cavernous ramp tunnel entrance. NGG did it much better with their jump ramp and more difficult hole in one shot that caught more air and allowed for the ball to miss the target even though you made the ramp. You don’t really see the flight of the ball that well in TS4. It’s not really in the air for that far or high of a distance to get a nice visual from. Lawlor was probably too worried about inaccurate shots that could cause damage with errant air balls, that he forgot to make it fun.

The iPad is hard to follow during gameplay. The angle of it makes it harder to read or focus on. I played the tiki pinball a couple of times and it looks and feels like late 70s video pinball. The ball has a tail like a comet that makes it hard to track. There is quite a lag between hitting the flipper buttons and the video flippers actually responding. It should be scrapped or else completely redone. The iPad is just a huge blunder imo.

As usual the best part of the game is it’s video assets. They look much more polished than any of the other companies. I also liked going for the ball lock on the lower left side. A risky shot but probably my favorite in the game.

Basically this game doesn’t seem to have a lot to shoot for and most the shots aren’t fun or satisfying. Code will help only so much. I didn’t even notice any physical characters on the playfield. A mechanical interactive woody or buzz large toy would have been nice. It’s probably the least impressive of all JJP games.

Flipped a single game on this yesterday, would've played more but Ayce Gogi was surprisingly busy for a Monday afternoon and it was clear several people wanted to play TS4. If there was no one there I would've played again, but I didn't find it worth waiting for - mushy JJP flippers always kill it for me. Knowing the figurines are cake toppers and seeing the little foundation they made for them in person was pretty laughable, honestly. I can see newer folks enjoying the game, so I do see that as a positive.

I'll be at another spot with one this weekend and will try it again, but this is purely a location game for me.

P

Hopefully people can see through the bias and judge for themselves. Watch the streams and decide based on what you see with your own eyes. Should be enough said

If you buy this game or don’t buy it based on some reviews from people that have played “for an hour” then you are destined to learn a lesson the hard way.

I know, been here a long time and learned the hard way myself a few times.

Take a look at the “collection” and what was owned in the past

The cost? It’s all relative isn’t it. Hypocrisy is off the charts

The flippers? No issues on Wonka, WOZ and GNR for me, and you aren’t Elwin. Pin Monk and new JJP board claim to have made the strength better. Witnessed it on the streams myself but only means something based on your personal play.

The PF? No complaints so far? I hope that stays that way. Stern has relapsed with Rush

The good news, another game is right around the corner if you don’t like this one.

Price higher? Guaranteed

Ice, have you taken over JJP marketing??? “See through the bias”? Lol, you’re kidding right? TS4 is a complete dissapointment for the asking price, by all accounts from these people that have actually played it. Why buddy are you still pumping this game so hard? You going to flip yours? JJP disappointed everyone with this barren, virtually no assets, mechless home edition, machine. It’s a clear almost unanimous consensus. Why are you constantly shilling for JJP? They paying you or something??? Come on, come clean,

(We have been able to judge for ourselves: the flippers suck just like on all our JJP games and just like Delt31 said in his very good review. What have you been playing? Didn’t you watch Karl’s over the top frustrating game with nonstop flipper fade and total weakness? Or are you just trolling us???) LOL!

CE Flippers right now

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Oh, the irony.

@vicjw66. All jjps use a way lower voltage on slings. It's not a defect, per se, that's just how they are.

Sounds like its a great game to drop a couple bucks into on location and thats about it

I agree with this.

Disappointing to read this from a company I've always enjoyed more than the others available. The price point is what kills it for me. Less costs more. They could have kept the prices that GNR originally had for a SE and LE. $7000 and $9000 I believe it was. Eliminating the SE just gave them the ability to call what should be a SE, an LE. Greed... but hey people are buying it right?

Have owned the other 6 JJPs and not one qualified as a “drop a couple bucks into” for me. Sounds like maybe the settings should be set harder so I don’t get to wizard mode easily, but can’t imagine I will be bored of this one quickly.

I've owned my share as well, and they're all pretty deep, code wise. This is been made specifically to NOT be. I think that's what he was saying.

I just played it and think it’s fun, easy and totally looking the part.

It’s a super attractive pinball machine and it’s obvious that the designers are highly skilled.

I actually found that it hides its mechanical simplicity fantastically well. I enjoyed it a lot but yeah, the price is absurd.

My WoZ definitely had more powerful slings. I liken them and the flippers to a slow right cross. You can turn up the power, but the snap isn’t there. Stern slings and flippers have a jab feel to them. Snappy and the slings have a klack, klack feel.

Bias forms from past experience. I was all in on JJP in the beginning. But they still haven’t properly addressed the flipper issues after all these years.
As for the hour of play, I didn’t play longer because I had pretty much seen everything in that time. Until the code progresses, there is not much else to say about it.

Seems this game needs to be loved for what it is. A simple shooter game with less Mechs, and straight forward rules.

I’ve not played this or read into the rules, just impression watching streamers…

Not all games have to have super deep rules, impossible to beat, etc.. if it was tastefully done it can be consider a classic. Appreciate the nice flow, shots.

Yes, I agree this game will lose value from NIB price, but it typically happens to a lot of games.

I’m not a great player and seeing the rules, to accomplish this all in 3 balls seems tough for me. Maybe I can finally beat a JJP game for once.

Actually, would be nice if JJP can slightly adjust the difficulty and/or add another super Wizard mode. It seems great players will burn though this game, but wonder if the replay ability to complete all objectives will hold up.

Time will tell.

I hope JJP also listens and attempt to fix the flipper issues from losing power

I like pinball.

Just like Munsters. So if you love that I guess you can love this.

I’m sorry, Munsters is much better than TS4.

You don't have to be sorry.

Basically from what I gather, if you hated it from the release video , or loved it , it's all reflected in your " review".

If you were mad when it dropped you were never going to give it a fair review. Just the same as if you were " all in" on the release , you are gonna be heavily biased.

Buy it or don't, but play it for yourself and decide.

Thanks for that.

Cool I’m sure you noticed the uptick in televised races?

Munsters is really good. Another one that the haters bombed for a LONG time, still do

It’s also reflected in the price, costs more than Toy Story. $17,500 now for an LE

I would call BM66 and Elvira “simple shooters” too, great Lyman pins

Unfortunately it’s true. Two echo chambers really. So far, a few people with whom I share favorite pins (Godzilla, Wonka, etc.) love it so I like my odds…

As someone who hasn't played it yet, there are a ton of contradictory statements.

A lot of people say it's too easy. While another group of people say those outlanes and pops are drain machines. Can't an owner setup their game to be as difficult as they want it to be?

Some people have said the shots are too open. While other people complain that the lock shot, scoop, skill shot, jump shot, and warp target are difficult. Isn't it better to have a good mix of easy and hard shots?

People complain about the flipper feel while other people are saying they're the best feeling JJP flippers. If you don't hate other JJP games flippers, this is a good sign.

There has also been a lot of love and hate for the jump shot. Some people say it's so buttery smooth, others saying it's janky and unsatisfying.

At least both camps tend to agree that it is fun game and expensive.

TS4 is a very simple game and shooter because they made it for little kids, plain and simple. JJP promo video proves that. But even little children are wise enough to not plunk down such a large wad of money for so little in return. A couple bucks at an arcade, though…

Steve’s new game game!

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This topper belongs on the LE

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I'll take a remake GNfR by SR; please!

I like how his one arm is twice as big as the other from having to hold that giant watch up all the time.

Nailed it.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Shrill!

Didn't think I hated anyone or anything in life.........
That changed 14-06-2022

Played TS4 #310 today for 2 hours. I found it addictive. Good shots. OK Flow. Benson posts made it challenging. Lots of modes. Longer ball times. Fun jump ramp. I look forward to playing it more. Better than Wonka for sure.

Playfield seem to have alot of mylar which is good.

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