Valencia, CA
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(Topic ID: 59122)
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The Hobbit
Jersey Jack, 2016
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Or on the existing thread without the link bait http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hobbit-update
London
Hmm..not to go negative but if woz was a great work of complication this looks too simplestic IMO. Hopefully there is a lot more to it..
Quoted from kvan99:Hmm..not to go negative but if woz was a great work of complication this looks too simplestic IMO. Hopefully there is a lot more to it..
Too simplistic? I suppose MM is too simplistic too? LOL! It has a lot of features so far...
Quoted from kvan99:Hmm..not to go negative but if woz was a great work of complication this looks too simplestic IMO. Hopefully there is a lot more to it..
I was thinking the same. Hope it's a good game because this is a game I am considering to buy. May wait now to see how it all turns out. No need of tying up money in a deposit for a year or two.
Quoted from Pimp77:Too simplistic? I suppose MM is too simplistic too? LOL! It has a lot of features so far...
I agree, there's a lot of detail and twists on existing pinball features. Here's hoping for one very complex main toy in the upper left area. I wonder if JJP is going to go with something similar to MM where the game has one main, but very interactive (they say it will be) toy with a way to access the mountain, break into the dungeon and hit the ball at Smaug.
Sweet F-14 with added inlanes 
joking. Looks cool so far four flippers and some pop out from under the playfield goodies?
I am unsure if I want to buy it though. Still waiting for my other game that I utter not its name. Then I can judge if product and quality is good enough to own future games.
For the record we all saw this pic some time ago. Not new I guess as much as it is confirmed.
Either way thank you for sharing.
Quoted from ronlisa:I was thinking the same. Hope it's a good game because this is a game I am considering to buy. May wait now to see how it all turns out. No need of tying up money in a deposit for a year or two.
Seems without preorder money offered years in advance the project cannot continue to develop like WOZ has over the years.
Maybe I'm reading his email wrong?
----start JJP quote----
"As of September 1st the price of The Hobbit LE will increase $500 to $8000.00. We ask that you are current on the payment schedule for The Hobbit by 8/31/13. Those who are not current will see a $500 increase in the price of their game after 9/1/13, making their game $8000.
Many people are paying according to the schedule which enables us to develop the game as we did with WOZ. We need to reward those who are loyal and stay on the payment plan while others who do not pay now will pay more later. There may be another price increase before the game goes into production. We have several distributors around the world looking to increase their orders so demand is growing for the game as more information is released"
----end JJP quote-----
If a worldwide network of distro's are looking to increase their orders I don't know why Hobbit would require more preorder money from the end user home market... Seems like all that other worldwide distro demand would equal a lot of dough?
I think if JJP differentiated the playfield of the LE versus the regular they, THLE, would have sold out 6 months ago. Stern does a good job differentiating their LE versus non LE. Which helps them sellout the LE models quickly.
Quoted from bmunn1:I think if JJP differentiated the playfield of the LE versus the regular they, THLE, would have sold out 6 months ago. Stern does a good job differentiating their LE versus non LE. Which helps them sellout the LE models quickly.
If by "differentiating" you mean "gimping the Pro" and "creating essentially two different games that play entirely differently".
JJP has the CORRECT idea with keeping the playfields, gameplay and software/rules of their two versions identical. LE features can be differentiated with cosmetic improvements, and in my mind that would extend no further than cabinet artwork or higher-quality STATIC playfield figurines (absolutely nothing that impacts gameplay).
I love JJP but I am not sure the sales facts back that position. You have made a philosophical statement that benefits buyers but not the company. You certainly haven't proven my point wrong. Car industry does it all the time. Look at Toyota and Lexus. Seems to be working for Stern.
Quoted from bmunn1:I love JJP but I am not sure the sales facts back that position. You have made a philosophical statement that benefits buyers but not the company. You certainly haven't proven my point wrong. Car industry does it all the time. Look at Toyota and Lexus. Seems to be working for Stern.
A pinball is not a car where you might opt to have or not have a sunroof, it's a game. So it's more like producing luxury chess sets where the "cheap" version leaves out the knights and has different rules to compensate.
Also, this is JJP's philosophy, not mine. They don't want to make a sub-standard version of a game with parts chopped out merely to make an uber-expensive LE seem like a must-buy-before-they're-all-gone proposition (and some of the time, the LE features feel tacked on after the fact just to make it seem better comparatively - see games like Avatar LE). Now, as long as Stern keeps making unlimited Premiums (hello, Tron) the "need" to buy an LE to get the good features is diminished... but if you're thinking that way, then JJP is simply making Premium and LE models and is skipping out on the bargain basement Pro (so... what was your point again?).
Mississauga
Quoted from bmunn1:I love JJP but I am not sure the sales facts back that position. You have made a philosophical statement that benefits buyers but not the company. You certainly haven't proven my point wrong. Car industry does it all the time. Look at Toyota and Lexus. Seems to be working for Stern.
The only difference, is you can walk down to your car dealer and get the model you want anytime. The fact that Stern limits it to only a few hundred, is great for speculators or collectors, but to "players" like me that want the "full meal deal" as far as gameplay, it leaves me out in the cold. It's totally alienated me as a customer. My last NIB purchase from stern was some time ago. It's because of the business model that JJP has, and the build quality, it got me back into pinball. I like Jersey Jacks business model better. I know others feel differently.
Quoted from Sunfox:A pinball is not a car where you might opt to have or not have a sunroof, it is a game. So it's more like producing luxury chess sets where the "cheap" version leaves out the knights and has different rules to compensate.
Also, this is JJP's philosophy, not mine. They don't want to make a sub-standard version of a game with parts chopped out merely to make an uber-expensive LE seem like a must-buy-before-they're-all-gone proposition (and some of the time, the LE features feel tacked on just to make it appear better comparatively - see games like Avatar LE). Now, as long as Stern keeps making Premiums the "need" to buy an LE to get the good features is diminished, but if you're thinking that way, then JJP is simply making Premium and LE models and is skipping out on the Pro.
For example if the THLE has popup trolls the non LE could have plain large drop targets, swinging axes LE no axes non LE, diorama mountainscapes in LE but something cheaper in non LE.
Just those changes would not affect rules and significantly increase the desirability/collectibility of the LE version.
Quoted from bmunn1:For example you if the THLE has popup trolls the non LE could have plain large drop targets, swinging axes LE no axes non LE, diorama mountainscapes in LE but something cheaper in non LE.
Just those changes would not affect rules and significantly increase the desirability/collectibility of the LE version.
You can decide who has the better business model with your wallet. Debate over. 
Quoted from Sunfox:JJP has the CORRECT idea with keeping the playfields, gameplay and software/rules of their two versions identical.
Well, we can debate which we prefer, but which is correct will be determined over time.
I like both myself. I like that JJP doesn't limit the full version. But I also like that Stern offers a lower priced model.
Quoted from PEN:You can decide who has the better business model with your wallet. Debate over.
Hey Rob! I am a paying customer for THLE either way. Hope your summer is going well!
I think Stern probably left money on the table by limiting the number of LEs. I guess that is why they went to the LE/premium/pro model. Now the LE/premium difference is cosmetic only and anyone that wants the one that plays like a 'Lexus' can buy one. And pros serve the op market way better from a financial model.
JJP basically has the LE/premium model, with no pro option. Not sure how that financial model will work out for ops. That game has to talk people into dropping more moola than they are accustomed to. You probably won't see a WOZ in a laundry mat....
But both companies seem to be doing ok now and I hope they continue to do so!
The big difference between both companies is the title announcement and payment plan.
JJP you know what the title is far in advance and you can space/budget with payments which is easier on the pocket for most of us.
Stern you do not know in far enough of advance of the title and once it's announced the distributor needs full payment to place the pre-order "first allotment" savings order within a matter of weeks or month at the most. At this point, if you miss out you don't get an LE until after they hit the market at a big price hike.
Many people can't afford the huge lump full payment at a drop of a hat.
They haven't sold anywhere close to the numbers of WOZ Jack used to claim they would in the early days. The net result of the reduced revenue is the pre-payment plan is here to stay for the foreseeable future. If the Hobbit is a good game to go along with its infinitely better theme, they might sell a few thousand more on top of pre sales after it releases. In that case they may be able to start to get ahead of the game financially...
Direct link to the most current pic that this thread referred to originally. Posted moments after the if was released. http://www.performancepinball.com/1/post/2013/08/jjp-reveals-more-detail-of-the-hobbit-playfield-design1.html#.UgR2QMu9KSM
I personally am very excited about the potential for this game and am always excited to see the Williams design method at work. I cannot wait. This game is going to be exciting.
Quoted from krupa:Well, we can debate which we prefer, but which is correct will be determined over time.
I like both myself. I like that JJP doesn't limit the full version. But I also like that Stern offers a lower priced model.
Agreed, and speaking of voting with our wallets, how many of you can afford 2 or 3 $8000.00 pinballs? ....Yep and that's the problem with this biz model or trend. WOZ was different because there was nothing like it for a long time, the time was right and some of us stepped up and paid the $7500 price tag but most of us are not inclined to pay those prices every couple of years. the $5000 biz model from Stern meshes much better with pinball demographics than the $8000 model...Just saying.
Breda, Holland
Cant tell you why, but i think this will be a top pin. The quality from woz, but then fast with a lay out that probably will be more to my liking.
I'm thinking the lonely mountain will be in the upper right hand corner with tunnels being the one or two of the 4 flaps. 1-2 being targets to bash
Quoted from lordloss:I'm thinking the lonely mountain will be in the upper right hand corner with tunnels being the one or two of the 4 flaps. 1-2 being targets to bash
Would the pops be under the mountain, or did you mean the mountain will be upper left?
Quoted from txstargazer3:Would the pops be under the mountain, or did you mean the mountain will be upper left?
The lonely mountain will be in the upper left as an upper playfield. The ramp on the middle will lead up to it. You will be able to either enter or exit via 1-2 of the flaps. No pop ups under the mountain, not sure what to expect there.
Quoted from spfxted:Oh, man! This looks great! Star Trek better be off the hook!
Because they will come out around the same time, competing for dollars?
Quoted from epthegeek:Seems like there's not much for the upper flippers to do. Everything they could hit seems makeable from the lower flippers.
But they can sure get in the way of the lower flippers. 
Reminds me of F-14 with the flippers in that regard.
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