(Topic ID: 291436)

JJP POTC re-run, what would you pay?

By Damonator

7 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 90 posts
  • 50 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Yelobird
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What is the MOST you would pay for a JJP POTC LE re-run?”

  • I would not buy a POTC re-run. 80 votes
    36%
  • $8000 51 votes
    23%
  • $10000 43 votes
    20%
  • $12000 46 votes
    21%

(220 votes)

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There are 90 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
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#51 7 months ago
Quoted from Palmer:

Seriously! Goes to show you how out of touch some people are. Why is 8K an option? Can we do a poll to re-run Tron at 4K?
These re-run POTC threads are becoming the new next pinball bubble topic.

The low end Pirates was 8.5k (and much less than that street price) so my poll started there. Pirates was made 2 years ago whereas Tron was made 10 years ago - therefore your analogy makes no sense. If you don’t like the thread, feel free to drain it and quit being a Palmer.

#52 7 months ago

Potc will NEVER be remade.
Not enough demand, not enough profit.
It’s as simple as that.

Plus the game is overhyped due to “fake scarcity”...

#53 7 months ago

Not interested at pirates at all, too many good games coming up.

#54 7 months ago

I would rather they focus on getting new games out than re-running old ones. JJP will never get to releasing multiple new machines per year if they go back to re-releasing old ones with some new trim package.

#55 7 months ago

The proto with triple iluminated spinning disc was looking fantastic: a new original take on a classic playfield part. On the production model the opening and closing chest lid and the triple disc were removed/replaced. And the bottom of many pinheads fell from below their feet. Blasfemy, outragious, not done, promises were broken, the list goes on. From this moment on this game deserved to be hated, crucified, burned and avoided at all costs. Well, we know the result. I am in the hobby for 30 years and after the removal of the triple disc, which was indeed a dissapointment, I looked at the games and saw what was left. Still a incredibly impressive machine with a great layout and a truckload of toys. Having some experience does help in this hobby. B/W back in the days also removed playfield parts and toys on their sample and proto games. Finally JJP did the same to improve reliability, nothing new to me. I bought the potc and never looked back.
Can this game ever be remade? Other games were remade too like BBB, the B/W classics and WOZ. I believe POTC will NEVER be remade. There are enough. If you don't own one buy another great machine. Many companies have produced great machines and there is enough to choose from. And every couple of months there are new releases.
If a LE would be remade I believe it will sell in decent numbers for 12k. It IS a great machine and still many people don't even know it or played it enough.

#56 7 months ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

I would rather they focus on getting new games out than re-running old ones. JJP will never get to releasing multiple new machines per year if they go back to re-releasing old ones with some new trim package.

My Guess is their business model is to build games and make profit not a title catalog. So if building game sales by continuing to run WOZ, POTC, GnR, Wonka, whatever makes sales that seems to be a model that works and at a Much lower risk and cost than hoping the next title is a win. Smart business in my view.

#57 7 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

The only issue JJP would have with POTC LE is making them fast enough. No matter what anyones opinion is even at 12.5 this game would be a sell out! Its just that dam good.

Not sure about that. You cannot just ignore these were a hard sell in the beginning. The problem with any rerun/remake is that you are competing against used games and smaller consumer base. Those that would normally buy expensive games like POTC already own the game or have owned it in the past. Even those that have not owned it probably played it a bunch and ready for something new. You would need fresh new customers that will walk past GnR and all the other new games to buy an old game at the highest price on the market.

#58 7 months ago

I think JJP could easily sell 1,000 new POTC's at $10,000 assuming it's of the LE hardware variety and the code is finally completed for the game.

That's $10,000,000 in sales...seems like a no brainer.

#59 7 months ago

I’d buy an LE for $10,500 or less.

#60 7 months ago

Not going to happen. JJP should douse the embers and officially say they have moved on. Until then we will have threads like this.

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#61 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think JJP could easily sell 1,000 new POTC's at $10,000 assuming it's of the LE hardware variety and the code is finally completed for the game.
That's $10,000,000 in sales...seems like a no brainer.

I agree and think with the expensive design and development phases complete it wouldn’t be out of the question for them to dust off the old templates for the assembly line.

Assuming it’s true that they still have the license for the rest of the year and pins sold in 2021 are still ok to be completed in 2022, I hope they go for it!

Either way JJP is getting a deposit from me whether it’s POTC or another pin.

#62 7 months ago
Quoted from Stef95:

No kidding, I'd rather pay $ 15,000 a potc and indulge myself than put $ 7,000 or $ 8,000 in an average Stern game.

So POTC is better than owning JP pro and DP pro with money left over. What a joke.

#63 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think JJP could easily sell 1,000 new POTC's at $10,000 assuming it's of the LE hardware variety and the code is finally completed for the game.

That's $10,000,000 in sales...seems like a no brainer.

Then why don't they do that?
Maybe it never sold like they expected in the first place.
Maybe they know they won't sell 1000 on a re run.

#64 7 months ago

I initially soured on this game (and JJP) after seeing all the quality control issues on games out of the shop (playfield pooling, breaking springs, bad rubbers, coil failures, trunk failures, ship coil failures, etc. and complicated game for clientele to understand. After watching JJP come out with version after version of WOZ, Hobbit, etc. with no regard to "Limited Edition" I fully expected them to come out with a new "LE" version of this game at some point (even stripped down vs. pimped out). As a note, I both operate this game and have one at home. It has an excellent integration of rules, sounds, shots, ways to play, beauty, that make it a great game. I think it is JJP's best game! I think JJP would be silly not to produce more in either an enhanced or stripped down model. I'm sure another 1,000 of some "LE" (even a stripped down Yellow Brick Road type model) at $12K would sell out in a day for FOMO. I guess I come full circle on this game. Would I rather have 6 used stern pros at $5K or a used POTC CE at $30K, the answer would easily be the Stern Pros. But would I buy I NIB POTC in the $10-$15K range, the answer would be likely.

#65 7 months ago

Why do people keep acting like this is Jacks decision. Jack no longer runs this company. It's owned by Mr. Billionaire and his billionaire son. They don't give a shit about what you want and never will.

#66 7 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

They don't give a shit about what you want and never will.

If you ever talk to either of them at a show. You'll find out that they do. Real down to earth nice people.

They have a vision of where the company is going. And like it or not. There will always be things they can do. And things they can't do. Not everything we want is in their plans for the future of JJP.

LTG : )

#67 7 months ago
Quoted from LordHumungus:

Donc POTC est mieux que de posséder JP pro et DP pro avec de l'argent restant. Quelle blague.

Yes, I prefer quality over quantity. Incredible isn't it !!?

#68 7 months ago
Quoted from Stef95:

Yes, I prefer quality over quantity. Incredible isn't it !!?

Its incredible u guys still bring up this crap. JJP has many quality issues as does Stern but POTC isn't as fun as either DP or JP so lets be honest, u like the lights and little plastic figurines and oh yeah, it weighs a lot. Who cares? Quality over quantity? another joke.

#69 7 months ago
Quoted from Damonator:

The low end Pirates was 8.5k (and much less than that street price) so my poll started there. Pirates was made 2 years ago whereas Tron was made 10 years ago - therefore your analogy makes no sense. If you don’t like the thread, feel free to drain it and quit being a Palmer.

My analogy makes sense in that both examples are never going to happen.

#70 7 months ago

Erik mentioned recently on a podcast (I think it was Final Round) that the new factory is tooled entirely for standard body games, and as much as he’d like to see another run of POTC that there would be significant cost and rework before they even built a single machine. The entire production line, rotisseries, etc. Factor in the backlog of GnR LE and the imminent new titles, I don’t see this happening. Unless the next title is a colossal failure and they need to keep the line running...

#71 7 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

Why do people keep acting like this is Jacks decision. Jack no longer runs this company. It's owned by Mr. Billionaire and his billionaire son. They don't give a shit about what you want and never will.

They just gave us GNR with slash involved from start to finish, massive assets in the game, not sure it’s fair to say they don’t give us what we want. One of the hits on potc was the lack of assets, the game was quickly written off and demand faltered. That, along with production issues, caused them to shut it down.

Jack has huge industry experience and I believe leads with his heart. he may not be running things financially, but I’d be very surprised if he didn’t have input, would be foolish not to rely on him.

#72 7 months ago

$10,500 is pretty much my limit for any pin almost the cost of two Stern pros and two grand more than any pin I’ve bought.

#73 7 months ago

Regardless if Pirates is remade or not in my opinion the game represents the last of the JJP games where Jack had a significant amount of input. I believe it was the last JJP game designed prior to the new owners taking over.

There's something special about the first four JJP pins. WOZ, Hobbit, Dialed In, and Pirates are very loaded games and come across as having more mechanical devices in them compared to Wonka and GNR.

#74 7 months ago

Let's get Jersey Jack pinball a second line running , and more than one game out every two years .....then maybe pursue after the rerun. After 10 years they should be at this level!

#75 7 months ago
Quoted from LordHumungus:

Its incredible u guys still bring up this crap. JJP has many quality issues as does Stern but POTC isn't as fun as either DP or JP so lets be honest, u like the lights and little plastic figurines and oh yeah, it weighs a lot. Who cares? Quality over quantity? another joke.

I'd say POTC is wayyy more fun than JP. DP is more fun but POTC is a better game.

JP is more of a tough competitive shooter than the other two, tickles different itches.

#76 7 months ago
Quoted from Palmer:

My analogy makes sense in that both examples are never going to happen.

I’m not sure how long you’ve been in the hobby. For myself, I’ve been in the hobby for 25 years. The one thing I’ve learned is to never say never. Anything can happen if there’s money to be made. MMr, MBr, Alien, TBL, WoZ, Hobbit and many more titles had a lot of people saying they would never happen at one point - and they all did.

At one time, it was the vision of JJP to get a second assembly line going in order to make 2 titles at the same time. I’m not sure if this is still a goal - if it is, I can see a remake of POtC happening. If it isn’t, the prospects are slimmer.

#77 7 months ago

Is POTC the new Tron VE of 2021? Are we going to see these posts come up every 6 months for 5,6,7,8+ years?

Next will be that people that own a POTC are saying they won't be remade because their game will go down in value?

"Shady Tree said they won't be remade but he owns one and wants to sell at top dollar ...wahhhhhhh"

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#78 7 months ago
Quoted from Damonator:

Anything can happen if there’s money to be made.

That's kind of the main point here. JJP halted production of POTC for a reason. CGC quit making remakes for a reason. Stern has not remade popular old titles like Tron and LOTR for a reason. If there was millions to be made with low risk it would of been done already. A small group of people on pinside claiming they would buy does not translate into guaranteed success. JJP is far better off focusing on fulfilling GnR orders and getting the next game up asap.

#79 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think JJP could easily sell 1,000 new POTC's at $10,000 assuming it's of the LE hardware variety and the code is finally completed for the game.
That's $10,000,000 in sales...seems like a no brainer.

Or they could make 1,000 of a different game that has a lower licensing cost and lower build cost and make even more money.

#80 7 months ago

Had one, sold it, no plans to ever buy again. Fun game, but like every one of them, eventually I lose interest.

#81 7 months ago

In defense of POTC - I love my LE! It's a great game!

FWIW: It doesn't lose anything from not having the the originally planned triple spinning disk either.

#82 7 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

If you ever talk to either of them at a show. You'll find out that they do. Real down to earth nice people.
They have a vision of where the company is going. And like it or not. There will always be things they can do. And things they can't do. Not everything we want is in their plans for the future of JJP.
LTG : )

I can’t believe the setup. How does one make a million in the pinball business? Simply, start with a billion. Wish I knew Mr Abyss or I’d share my joke.

#83 7 months ago
Quoted from Mrsiyufy:

Or they could make 1,000 of a different game that has a lower licensing cost and lower build cost and make even more money.

Developing a brand new game from scratch costs much more than re-running an existing one. BOM/licensing can vary of course but a new game is a 2-3 year endeavor for multiple people (designer, artist, sound, engineer, etc).

I’ve never argued that they should stop making the current game on the primary line. I’m saying fire up that second line that was much discussed and crank out some Wicked Witch WoZs and some [insert cool version name] POTCs. I think a run of 500 each would sell out pretty fast.

Why make 1x money when you can make 2x?

#84 7 months ago

They're struggling to fulfill the GNR orders they currently have. They jacked up the price by $1000 and there are still people getting in line to buy one. I don't think they're worried about losing out on JJPOTC money right now.

Besides, there would be outrage if they started up a second line to do another JJPOTC run. I ordered GNR LE on day 2 and am still waiting. It's been over 6 months.

I understand there people out there that would love to get a retail priced JJPOTC, but people had their chance and passed on it. Good for those that got them when nobody wanted them.

#85 7 months ago
Quoted from Damonator:

Developing a brand new game from scratch costs much more than re-running an existing one. BOM/licensing can vary of course but a new game is a 2-3 year endeavor for multiple people (designer, artist, sound, engineer, etc).
I’ve never argued that they should stop making the current game on the primary line. I’m saying fire up that second line that was much discussed and crank out some Wicked Witch WoZs and some [insert cool version name] POTCs. I think a run of 500 each would sell out pretty fast.
Why make 1x money when you can make 2x?

True but development is separate from production. As you know from Deeproot and others, developing a pin is just the start. Production is a whole other animal. Not only do you have to get all the parts made but deal with labor, training, logistics, etc. As someone else pointed out, POTC being a widebody requires special parts, tooling, and equipment. You just don't flick a switch and start making a game. If JJP can increase production it should be for fulfilling backorders on GnR. That game is hot and you don't want people cancelling orders because they bought something else while waiting. Makes no sense to throttle back GnR to rerun a game that didn't sell well to begin with.

#86 7 months ago

One dollar, Bob.

#87 7 months ago

One of the biggest differences with widebody games is that you need a thicker playfield, aka more layers, if you don’t want bowing or warping. JJP playfields are plenty thick for Hobbit and JJPOTC widebody design. Widebody means all of your playfield assemblies and fixtures require longer screws too. Did JJP go to a thinner playfield on all standard body pins ???

#88 7 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

If you ever talk to either of them at a show. You'll find out that they do. Real down to earth nice people.
They have a vision of where the company is going. And like it or not. There will always be things they can do. And things they can't do. Not everything we want is in their plans for the future of JJP.
LTG : )

Sorry LTG I'm sure they are real "down to earth" but it's not this Earth they are on. Billionaires don't live on the same plain that us reg folk live on. The elites will be the first to leave this planet after they destroy it. And if they were so passionate about what they do and care what we want then they can fix their playfield problems that have been plaguing them for years. Their latest "deal" of taking the machine off your hands and giving your money back without actually fixing your game is not fixing the problem. How about actually fixing the problem. They have the money to do it. They won't do it. They would rather tell you to "f#$$ off". Sorry I may seem bitter about the issue but it's a real problem.

#89 7 months ago

12K is cheap. I would buy one. If I didn't like it... well I don't think it would be hard selling it for 12K.

#90 7 months ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

They're struggling to fulfill the GNR orders they currently have. They jacked up the price by $1000 and there are still people getting in line to buy one. I don't think they're worried about losing out on JJPOTC money right now.
Besides, there would be outrage if they started up a second line to do another JJPOTC run. I ordered GNR LE on day 2 and am still waiting. It's been over 6 months.
I understand there people out there that would love to get a retail priced JJPOTC, but people had their chance and passed on it. Good for those that got them when nobody wanted them.

In my view your post is key. It was hard to build and make money building POTC the first time Without having a hot firecracker of a game like GnR on the tracks. Can only imagine those waiting 6 months to a year on a GnR having to wait longer cause they want to simply squeeze a game into production. Add to that, while it was possibly (assuming) a tight profit margin on POTC several years ago This year (from what our company is seeing) materials, components, wood, etc are up in some cases over 40% in cost. That would bleed any possible profit out of that game sadly unless it was released at crazy money.

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