(Topic ID: 243762)

JJP Pirates vs a Stern Premium

By pcprogrammer

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 92 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by gumnut01
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Choose which game you like most”

  • JJP Pirates Standard is good enough 40 votes
    31%
  • JJP Pirates LE because you lose too many features with the standard (assuming you will pay about 2k more at this point for an LE over a standard) 64 votes
    50%
  • Star Trek Premium is more fun 16 votes
    13%
  • Game of Thrones Premium is more fun 7 votes
    6%

(127 votes)

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#18 4 years ago
Quoted from PrinzFred:

I realize it is one data point, but on location we have a POTC CE with more issues than I can count (Ball Kicker had to be replaced, chest forks getting bent not working, flipper coil under ship lost hold power, almost all rubbers needed to be replaced in short order, ramps tightened down on pops that should spin so they wouldn't, slingshot hammers continuously coming out or balls getting stuck under slings, Playfield cracking around scoops, . . . Unless you really know what you are doing or happy making numerous fixes out of the box, I would stay away. People have also gotten bored of the game quick (i.e. not earning). We had a WOZ and parts similarly took forever . . . Also if JJP holds true to form they will just come out with a new more expensive pirates with functions stripped down.
We have had good success with Stern and Chicago Gaming out of the box.
If you are really looking for something to hold its value, just buy a used game of recent vintage and let someone else take the depreciation. If you hunt long enough, you can still buy and sell used games at about the same value.

I love hearing from operators. It does seem like a good home use game though. I spent last weekend playing the LE a ton and it is a great game, but I decided to pass. There were 5000 plays on the one I spent time on, with some of the post chipping issues detailed here but overall pretty good with protectors. Mine was the last LE on the line, I’m told. To say Stern machines are cheap when operators describe them holding up like tanks seems to fly in the face of many comments on Pinside. I’m an old WMS/Bally geek, and I’ve loved my BM66 Pre, STLE, and IMDNLE. Epic, fun games. I may still pick up a Pirates later though, and agree that another run is highly likely. In a year, perhaps, but the buzz and demand are excellent, so why wouldn’t JJP go for it?

#23 4 years ago

If you like ridiculously deep code and complexity, JJPOTC may be your thing. If you like lightning fast flow and crazy target shooting, ST Pre is amazing. I’d compare them to TZ and MM, respectively, in terms of the player experience. Both are great. Some complain ST is too similar across the modes and can be a little like chopping wood. But I think that can be true of any game. I love STLE and prefer it, but JJPOTC may sustain your interest longer.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Sterns don’t break because there’s nothing in them to break.

Come on, Honda dude, knock it off.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It’s a joke, to illustrate how ridiculous the anti JJP crowd is. :p

I get it but you are sounding super anti Stern in your posts! If you changed your name to bmw4me, you’d like Stern better, to continue the car analogy! I love JJP and will add one eventually.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It’s a super old forum name I use. I owned an F3 as a young lad. I’m not anti stern at all. I own and buy them all the time.

I thought you were gonna say Bmws break down all the time or something...

#34 4 years ago

That’s a lot of Sterns in a short time...you’re burning some midnight oil for sure! Maybe I made a mistake on POTC. It is a great game, although the last movies sucked. Toy Story, I’m in.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Because of my parents operating pins at an arcade I’m used to changing pins often. After that, starting in 2004, I had been buying pins off and on over the year. But now that we live in a home that could fit potentially 10 or more pins, that old habit came back quickly, so I’ve been buying and selling pins with greater frequency like we used to at the arcade. Old habits die hard I guess. :p

That's one problem with the Pinside statistics--how long you have been here on Pinside often doesn't match years in the hobby. I started in 2002, in and out over the years, now more in than out.

#47 4 years ago

Shoot, I bailed on the LE but may get back in on a Standard! When I was playing at Next Level in Hillsboro (amazing location), I didn't even notice the starfield and spinning pirate, and the topper is nothing special, lots of mod options there. The glass you can add later if you need it. Frankly, the stainless would powdercoat nicely into the green CE color or some other variation in the LE/Standard color scheme. RGB GI is a loss, not sure how to mod that one without seeing the underside. And now watch the rush on the remaining Standards...

#50 4 years ago

Here’s the answer from the club forum. Forgot about the shaker... Sounds like a minor issue, since the inserts are rgb. He later posted that it can most likely be added.

Quoted from djxealot:

There are two other differences. LE provides RBG GI - SE only has white GI. I don't mind that, because the white provides better visibility IMHO. But that is not easily added as a mod; I did look into it out of curiosity. JJP uses tiny printed circuit boards with LEDs for the GI, and for the RGB ones, there are 4 wires (power + RGB signal) from the node boards, per LED. For the white, only two (power only). To add RGB GI you would need the PCBs for them - JJP doesn't sell them presently, AFAIK - and you would need to wire the extra two wires per light to the node boards. No interest in doing that.
The other, of course, is the motorized spinning bumper. This is the one feature from the LE that I want on my SE, and I am currently investigating how to do this. I ordered a Jack Sparrow series 1 figure ($20 ebay score) and a pop bumper cap ($20) from The Mod Couple (picked up the monkey and a second cap too), which I will make into the barrel cover top. I machined a small bracket to hold the figure on the barrel cover. But I need to find a cheap hobby motor I can piggyback off the pop bumper - since JJP doesn't sell this motor either. It will take some time to find, but if I do it I will document it for other SE owners. If I can do it for less than $75 altogether, it will be worth it.
Agree that the topper for the LE is "meh" (CE topper is great, but waaaaay too pricey). Don't care about invisiglass - some will disagree with me on this. Black powder coat vs. brushed stainless - I really don't care. Either is fine. My Sterns have all been powder coat, my Williams all stainless - don't care. Shaker motor is nice, but can do without. Starfield is "meh".
When I say LE is better value, I mean that you can tally up all the stuff JJP gives LE owners and it really adds up to that price difference - and then some. This is very different from Stern, where sometimes it's hard to see where the money for the Premium/LEs went. If you don't want that stuff, then SE is for you.

Quoted from djxealot:

The lighting on the SE is fine. Inserts are still RGB. And spots are white on both SE and LE/CE. Only something like a dozen or so bulbs are white GI. It's not a big deal.
It's also something you could probably mod if you wanted to in the future. Game code is the same across models, and the bulbs are tiny little PCBs. White GI has a connector with 2 wires. RGB inserts use 4 wires. Presumably, the additional 2 wires are for the RGB signal. The first two merely control brightness. The node boards still have spots for the additional two wires.
Long story short, if you bought the RGB LEDs and added two wires to each run, you'd have full RGB lighting if you wanted it. That being said, I kind of prefer the white GI. It's a bit brighter and easier to see.

#64 4 years ago

At least you guys didn’t screw up like me and cancel your LE Monday, call back Tuesday to say never mind--too late, last one on the line-sold! Oops. On to the Standard...

#71 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's always kind of silly doing these types of comparisons.
Do you want a fast pro game with easier to understand rulesets, refined action, and a theme that is more likely to resonate with you? Go for a Stern.
You want a large, heavy, complicated, deep, toy and-gimmick-laden experience that might wow somebody who hasn't played a pinball machine in 20 years or ever? Right this way, I've got a pirates for you.
I think a lot of home game room folks - especially those who are maybe looking to impress/capture friends/family/kids (ie: people who don't really like pinball) will gravitate towards something like Pirates. If you value gameplay and tournament-style rules and goals, you are probably better off with a Stern.
More of a middle ground are JJP games like Wonka and Dialed In.
From the OP's opener and following posts, seems like Pirates is the only answer. He doesn't sound like the type who will be impressed by a deadpool on a spring, but a huge LCD, rocking boat, and a button you pound 900 times a game might be just what the Dr. ordered. WHenever someone starts out by noting the "low quality" of Sterns you know they want to spend more money and get more "stuff" with a JJP.

If what you say is true, then one of my favorite machines, TZ, must also be “a large, heavy, complicated, deep, toy and-gimmick-laden experience that might wow somebody who hasn't played a pinball machine in 20 years or ever”.

Or not. JJPOTC is too complicated for a novice. Just a different kind of experience. I love my Sterns, they are incredibly fun, and I prefer them on average, but I’m not sure how the JJP games can be casually dismissed. They helped raise the game for Stern and my Batman66 thanks them.

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

I like JJP but they have nothing to do with BM66.
It has everything to do with Lyman raising his own game around rules and theme integration.

First LCD screen integration

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

Thank goodness.
Without LCD integration we were stuck with games like LOTR, TSPP, MET, ACDC, and TWD.

Ok, I like your sarcasm, but BM66 is definitely the best realization of LCD integration into a game to date, and it makes a huge difference. Imagine how these games you listed would be with the larger LCD screen! Lyman is brilliant no matter the situation, he makes it all great. I think Batman 66 is 100% Stern and love it. My point here, and it sounds like you’re a bigger JJP fan than me, is competition is healthy and pushes innovation. I don’t get culture here sometimes, so I’ll take a break and get back to this book. It’s just a hobby. I’m glad there are so many great options.

#89 4 years ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Can't! LE is unobtainable now unless you want to buy one for more $$$ than new. No thanks. I'm trying to talk myself into the standard, it's difficult, it seems that at only 1k over the standard it was a great value, tons of added stuff including the RGB LEDs and the starfield. Too bad the LE is ancient history now. My prediction is that they will never make it again, and if they do it will get the yellow WOZ treatment - again, no thanks to that.

It’s the same game. I’m actually getting more excited about a Standard instead of the LE. $8500 seems like a great price in this market for a machine packed full of tech. I’m thinking about doing my own starfield with fiber optics, which would look better than LED, would be interested in the GI rgb conversion if I think it even needs it, prefer stainless over the textured powder coat on the LE, and bet I can make a cooler custom topper more like the CE. Also, you can get invisiglass cheaper if you buy more than one sheet, and I want one for my TZ.

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