(Topic ID: 243762)

JJP Pirates vs a Stern Premium


By pcprogrammer

25 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 92 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 23 days ago by gumnut01
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Choose which game you like most”

  • JJP Pirates Standard is good enough 38 votes
    32%
  • JJP Pirates LE because you lose too many features with the standard (assuming you will pay about 2k more at this point for an LE over a standard) 59 votes
    49%
  • Star Trek Premium is more fun 16 votes
    13%
  • Game of Thrones Premium is more fun 7 votes
    6%

(120 votes)

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There are 92 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 25 days ago

Really thinking about getting a JJP Pirates. There seem to be plenty of standards out there NIB. My first question, anyone have any guesses as to hold this pin will hold up over time as far as value? $8500 NIB then it's worth how much in a year or two? I understand this would be just speculation. My next question, would this be more fun than a GOT Premium or Star Trek Premium? I did play some games on Pirates at MGC this year but I never get a good enough impression of a game at a show. I've played GOT Premium and ST Premium a lot out in the wild, I used to own a Star Trek Pro. My issue with the Stern's is that they feel so cheap. I love my Met Pro and don't plan on selling it but honestly it just feels low quality to me compared to the other pins I've owned. My last question, is the standard version of JJP Pirates worth owning? I'm not going to overpay for an HUO LE at this point but is the standard going to feel like a step down that I'll notice? Feel free to comment even if you hate the game.

#2 25 days ago

Im a LE kind of guy so standards are not my thing. But, i still would think a pirates se would be a great game to own. Go for it! A friend has a CE and loves it over most games he owns. That includes Stern, Bally, Williams and American Pinball.

#3 25 days ago

JJP POTC is one of the best games made hand down. If you don’t have fun? You’re crazy. Value wise, it should hold its price pretty well, especially if they don’t make more. If you can afford the extra $ for an LE, do that because the differences are worth it. The Standard is still the complete game though. GOT and Metallica are good pins... but Pirates puts is way better.

#4 25 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Im a LE kind of guy so standards are not my thing. But, i still would think a pirates se would be a great game to own. Go for it! A friend has a CE and loves it over most games he owns. That includes Stern, Bally, Williams and American Pinball.

CE would be out of the question for me as far as price goes. LE probably the same thing, both can't be obtained NIB now and seem to cost more than new because of demand. I guess I am just trying to justify getting a standard because in a way I am forced into the standard, it's not really a choice because they stopped making the LE. I checked around and distributors don't have them anymore.

#5 25 days ago

I wouldn't pay above retail for any game so that would rule out the LE if it we're me. I think the Standard edition would be just fine. You really aren't missing anything from a gameplay standpoint.

#6 25 days ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I wouldn't pay above retail for any game so that would rule out the LE if it we're me. I think the Standard edition would be just fine. You really aren't missing anything from a gameplay standpoint.

It looks like you are losing that starfield in the back? How significant is that? Losing the powdercoated rails doesn't bother me.

#7 25 days ago

If it’s true they aren’t going to run more pirates then it is going to continue to appreciate in value...great game. A pirates standard is good enough.

#8 25 days ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

It looks like you are losing that starfield in the back? How significant is that? Losing the powdercoated rails doesn't bother me.

Honestly when I've played the LE I haven't really even noticed it among all the other features. It's cool but it's just a lighting mod.

#9 25 days ago

I had the opportunity to buy a nib POTC Standard nib for $8200. It’s basically the same game as LE. You’d enjoy the standard and save a little cash

#11 25 days ago

I would be scared to buy Pirates Nib right now. It seems to be plagued with issues. They will make more.....they always do.

#12 25 days ago

Search for the JJP issues on here. They're plagued with QC issues. Stern is way better quality and less headaches.

#13 25 days ago

never had one issue with my JJP Pirates - 5 months and counting

#14 25 days ago
Quoted from Stones:

I would be scared to buy Pirates Nib right now. It seems to be plagued with issues. They will make more.....they always do.

No issues with my potc LE, perfect out of the box.

#15 25 days ago

No issue with my LE as well. Perfect out of box.

#16 25 days ago
Quoted from Stones:

I would be scared to buy Pirates Nib right now. It seems to be plagued with issues. They will make more.....they always do.

It’s not. Everyone having little or no issues isn’t posting every day how their POTC continues to be trouble free. And for those that do, we get chastised for it.

Only issue I had with my POTC was a screw loose and a bulb popped out. I have a small chip by a post that has not changed in 1000 plays.

As someone who buys sterns, there is no stern even close to pirates for me. Buy a standard, add a shaker, and enjoy one of the best pins ever made.

#17 25 days ago

I realize it is one data point, but on location we have a POTC CE with more issues than I can count (Ball Kicker had to be replaced, chest forks getting bent not working, flipper coil under ship lost hold power, almost all rubbers needed to be replaced in short order, ramps tightened down on pops that should spin so they wouldn't, slingshot hammers continuously coming out or balls getting stuck under slings, Playfield cracking around scoops, . . . Unless you really know what you are doing or happy making numerous fixes out of the box, I would stay away. People have also gotten bored of the game quick (i.e. not earning). We had a WOZ and parts similarly took forever . . . Also if JJP holds true to form they will just come out with a new more expensive pirates with functions stripped down.

We have had good success with Stern and Chicago Gaming out of the box.

If you are really looking for something to hold its value, just buy a used game of recent vintage and let someone else take the depreciation. If you hunt long enough, you can still buy and sell used games at about the same value.

#18 25 days ago
Quoted from PrinzFred:

I realize it is one data point, but on location we have a POTC CE with more issues than I can count (Ball Kicker had to be replaced, chest forks getting bent not working, flipper coil under ship lost hold power, almost all rubbers needed to be replaced in short order, ramps tightened down on pops that should spin so they wouldn't, slingshot hammers continuously coming out or balls getting stuck under slings, Playfield cracking around scoops, . . . Unless you really know what you are doing or happy making numerous fixes out of the box, I would stay away. People have also gotten bored of the game quick (i.e. not earning). We had a WOZ and parts similarly took forever . . . Also if JJP holds true to form they will just come out with a new more expensive pirates with functions stripped down.
We have had good success with Stern and Chicago Gaming out of the box.
If you are really looking for something to hold its value, just buy a used game of recent vintage and let someone else take the depreciation. If you hunt long enough, you can still buy and sell used games at about the same value.

I love hearing from operators. It does seem like a good home use game though. I spent last weekend playing the LE a ton and it is a great game, but I decided to pass. There were 5000 plays on the one I spent time on, with some of the post chipping issues detailed here but overall pretty good with protectors. Mine was the last LE on the line, I’m told. To say Stern machines are cheap when operators describe them holding up like tanks seems to fly in the face of many comments on Pinside. I’m an old WMS/Bally geek, and I’ve loved my BM66 Pre, STLE, and IMDNLE. Epic, fun games. I may still pick up a Pirates later though, and agree that another run is highly likely. In a year, perhaps, but the buzz and demand are excellent, so why wouldn’t JJP go for it?

#19 25 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It’s not. Everyone having little or no issues isn’t posting every day how their POTC continues to be trouble free. And for those that do, we get chastised for it.
Only issue I had with my POTC was a screw loose and a bulb popped out. I have a small chip by a post that has not changed in 1000 plays.
As someone who buys sterns, there is no stern even close to pirates for me. Buy a standard, add a shaker, and enjoy one of the best pins ever made.

This isnt a knock on JJP. I was the same way with Stern's Ghostbusters. QC seems to be an issue with pirates. I loved Pirates when I played it Des Moines.....and would consider purchasing on the next rum...run.

#20 25 days ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjpirates-of-the-caribbean-troubleshooting-tips-issues

Read thru this huge thread just on this single JJP game.

Quoted from PrinzFred:

Unless you really know what you are doing or happy making numerous fixes out of the box, I would stay away. People have also gotten bored of the game quick (i.e. not earning). We had a WOZ and parts similarly took forever . . .

This is what I hear from fellow operators and have experienced myself with JJP games. The hood is always up.

Quoted from dts:

To say Stern machines are cheap when operators describe them holding up like tanks seems to fly in the face of many comments on Pinside.

People on pinside judge quality on if the cab appears to be splitting and the weight of the wood. My Sterns on route have had very few issues. I judge quality based on how often the machine is working not by the appearance of quality. Measured like this, Stern is king.

My advice is to read up around here not listen to the 10 fanboys that post in every single thread to defend JJP.

#21 25 days ago

I have not formed an opinion on JJP POTC so will vote ST premium. I will say there is a lot of stuff going on in PotC just not sure how much I like it yet. It's a shame if JJP doesn't get them out in public because they cost too much.

#22 25 days ago

I'd go with the POTC.

Everyone knows that Stern will NEVER make a game that is this complex and this loaded w/ "toys".

#23 25 days ago

If you like ridiculously deep code and complexity, JJPOTC may be your thing. If you like lightning fast flow and crazy target shooting, ST Pre is amazing. I’d compare them to TZ and MM, respectively, in terms of the player experience. Both are great. Some complain ST is too similar across the modes and can be a little like chopping wood. But I think that can be true of any game. I love STLE and prefer it, but JJPOTC may sustain your interest longer.

#24 25 days ago

Sterns don’t break because there’s practically nothing in them to break.

That said my sterns break just as much as any other pin I’ve owned. Though I’ve had more problems NIB on my sterns than JJP. But anecdotes are anecdotal.

#25 25 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Sterns don’t break because there’s nothing in them to break.

Come on, Honda dude, knock it off.

#26 25 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Come on, Honda dude, knock it off.

It’s a joke, to illustrate how ridiculous the anti JJP crowd is. :p

#27 25 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It’s a joke, to illustrate how ridiculous the anti JJP crowd is. :p

I get it but you are sounding super anti Stern in your posts! If you changed your name to bmw4me, you’d like Stern better, to continue the car analogy! I love JJP and will add one eventually.

#28 25 days ago
Quoted from dts:

I get it but you are sounding super anti Stern in your posts! If you changed your name to bmw4me, you’d like Stern better, to continue the car analogy! I love JJP and will add one eventually.

It’s a super old forum name I use. I owned an F3 as a young lad. I’m not anti stern at all. I own and buy them all the time.

#29 25 days ago

With the games you have mentioned I would take the Pirates for sure.
I owned LE versions of ST and GOT.
Love my POTC LE, only issue I have had is chipping by one sling, and bubbling by another.
Easy to cover with different posts.
Mine isn't going anywhere, and I move games a lot.

#30 25 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Sterns don’t break because there’s practically nothing in them to break.
That said my sterns break just as much as any other pin I’ve owned. Though I’ve had more problems NIB on my sterns than JJP. But anecdotes are anecdotal.

Not true Matt

No offense but you have two Stern pins

It’s not a “joke”. You have been around here less than a year

JJP problems are well documented, and I have a POTCCE on the way

It’s a “joke” as well how bad the anti Stern crowd is

You have an AS pro and IMDN premium

What else have you owned?

Stern pins have been awesome, like em or not

There are many reasons they sell 12k per yr and JJP doesn’t even come close

#31 25 days ago

Every new game in my collection required adjustments and tweaks out of the box. My PotCLE probably requires more small adjustments than my Sterns simply because of there are ALOT of switches on that game. My BM66 required the largest adjustment: a complete lower half cabinet swap. What I’m trying to say is, “it’s a crap shoot” but all of that talk about Stern or JJP being plagued with QC issues is overblown, particularly in a home environment. Plus, it looks like you’re probably buying on the secondary market so most gremlins would probably have been addressed by the previous owner.

All of the games on your list are fun, buy the one you like best.

#32 25 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It’s a super old forum name I use. I owned an F3 as a young lad. I’m not anti stern at all. I own and buy them all the time.

I thought you were gonna say Bmws break down all the time or something...

#33 25 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Not true Matt
No offense but you have two Stern pins
It’s not a “joke”. You have been around here less than a year
JJP problems are well documented, and I have a POTCCE on the way
It’s a “joke” as well how bad the anti Stern crowd is
You have an AS pro and IMDN premium
What else have you owned?
Stern pins have been awesome, like em or not
There are many reasons they sell 12k per yr and JJP doesn’t even come close

Why do you always have to make it personal? You do realize that joining pinside does not mean that life before doing so is irrelevant. It matters absolutely zero how long I’ve “been on pinside”. I spent my teenage years in the 90s pinball frenzy playing endless pins at an arcade we owned and have been playing pins ever since. I’ve owned many throughout the years. My pinside “history” collection only contains pins that I’ve been tracking since I joined pinside, because the forum feature looked cool so I thought I’d use it.

In the past 6 months I’ve bought Star Wars, Star Trek, GotG, IMDN, and now Aerosmith. How many sterns have you bought the past 6 months? I’m practically buying one stern per month, so it’s safe to say I like sterns. I mean doesn’t every stern hater spend $5k a month on sterns?

#34 25 days ago

That’s a lot of Sterns in a short time...you’re burning some midnight oil for sure! Maybe I made a mistake on POTC. It is a great game, although the last movies sucked. Toy Story, I’m in.

#35 25 days ago
Quoted from dts:

That’s a lot of Sterns in a short time...you’re burning some midnight oil for sure! Maybe I made a mistake on POTC. It is a great game, although the last movies sucked. Toy Story, I’m in.

Because of my parents operating pins at an arcade I’m used to changing pins often. After that, starting in 2004, I had been buying pins off and on over the years. But now that we live in a home that could fit potentially 10 or more pins, that old habit came back quickly, so I’ve been buying and selling pins with greater frequency like we used to at the arcade. Old habits die hard I guess. :p

#36 25 days ago

I heard JJP games dimple like crazy... LoL

#37 25 days ago

I heard that Stern never finishes code.

-2
#38 25 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Not true Matt
No offense but you have two Stern pins
It’s not a “joke”. You have been around here less than a year
JJP problems are well documented, and I have a POTCCE on the way
It’s a “joke” as well how bad the anti Stern crowd is
You have an AS pro and IMDN premium
What else have you owned?
Stern pins have been awesome, like em or not
There are many reasons they sell 12k per yr and JJP doesn’t even come close

Jesus THANK YOU

#39 25 days ago

JJP Pirates SE for the win. 99 percent of the JJP Pirates LE for 89 percent of the cost. JJP Pirates is a game with a little more code work could be the GOAT!
I am a Stern fan but Pirates is excellent!

#40 25 days ago
Quoted from sulli10:

JJP Pirates SE for the win. 99 percent of the JJP Pirates LE for 89 percent of the cost. JJP Pirates is a game with a little more code work could be the GOAT!
I am a Stern fan but Pirates is excellent!

What about the chipping clear coat? I heard that they are using a softer clear.

#41 25 days ago
Quoted from kcZ:

What about the chipping clear coat? I heard that they are using a softer clear.

Several hundred plays and my game looks the same as the day it was new.

#42 25 days ago

Depends what you are looking for. I have mostly newer Sterns. Six months ago I bought a used WOZ and never appreciated it until it was in my home. Such deep games. I’m enjoying it so much my next pin will be a JJP.

#43 25 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Because of my parents operating pins at an arcade I’m used to changing pins often. After that, starting in 2004, I had been buying pins off and on over the year. But now that we live in a home that could fit potentially 10 or more pins, that old habit came back quickly, so I’ve been buying and selling pins with greater frequency like we used to at the arcade. Old habits die hard I guess. :p

That's one problem with the Pinside statistics--how long you have been here on Pinside often doesn't match years in the hobby. I started in 2002, in and out over the years, now more in than out.

-2
#44 25 days ago

I’ve been around long enough to have a opinion: Stern sells allot more pins for sure.... mainly because they are cheap and they can crank out the volume. I’ve owned 10+ sterns and every JJP pin (and about every Williams / Bally A game). My advise is don’t fall for the hype and pumping of any pin here on pinside - go play the heck out of what your considering first. My preference - you get much more from JJP in terms of quality, code, toys, immersion, value, lastability, and your supporting a family run organization of great people who’s focus is building the best games in the world - unlike stern whose run by an investor group and their bean counters.

#46 25 days ago
Quoted from mountaingamer:

I’ve been around long enough to have a opinion: Stern sells allot more pins for sure.... mainly because they are cheap and they can crank out the volume.

Like it or not, Sterns sell because home owners enjoy the gameplay while operators can rely on them to make money.
JJP is moving toward this model with Wonka as it’s been successful and sustainable long term.

#47 25 days ago

Shoot, I bailed on the LE but may get back in on a Standard! When I was playing at Next Level in Hillsboro (amazing location), I didn't even notice the starfield and spinning pirate, and the topper is nothing special, lots of mod options there. The glass you can add later if you need it. Frankly, the stainless would powdercoat nicely into the green CE color or some other variation in the LE/Standard color scheme. RGB GI is a loss, not sure how to mod that one without seeing the underside. And now watch the rush on the remaining Standards...

#48 25 days ago
Quoted from Vino:

Like it or not, Sterns sell because home owners can afford them and enjoy the gameplay while operators can rely on them to make money.
JJP is moving toward this model with Wonka as it’s been successful and sustainable long term.

I agree

#49 25 days ago

Does anyone know how hard it would be to add the RGB GI lights into the standard? This would be my only concern stepping down to the standard. Shaker motor and invisiglass could be added.

#50 25 days ago

Here’s the answer from the club forum. Forgot about the shaker... Sounds like a minor issue, since the inserts are rgb. He later posted that it can most likely be added.

Quoted from djxealot:

There are two other differences. LE provides RBG GI - SE only has white GI. I don't mind that, because the white provides better visibility IMHO. But that is not easily added as a mod; I did look into it out of curiosity. JJP uses tiny printed circuit boards with LEDs for the GI, and for the RGB ones, there are 4 wires (power + RGB signal) from the node boards, per LED. For the white, only two (power only). To add RGB GI you would need the PCBs for them - JJP doesn't sell them presently, AFAIK - and you would need to wire the extra two wires per light to the node boards. No interest in doing that.
The other, of course, is the motorized spinning bumper. This is the one feature from the LE that I want on my SE, and I am currently investigating how to do this. I ordered a Jack Sparrow series 1 figure ($20 ebay score) and a pop bumper cap ($20) from The Mod Couple (picked up the monkey and a second cap too), which I will make into the barrel cover top. I machined a small bracket to hold the figure on the barrel cover. But I need to find a cheap hobby motor I can piggyback off the pop bumper - since JJP doesn't sell this motor either. It will take some time to find, but if I do it I will document it for other SE owners. If I can do it for less than $75 altogether, it will be worth it.
Agree that the topper for the LE is "meh" (CE topper is great, but waaaaay too pricey). Don't care about invisiglass - some will disagree with me on this. Black powder coat vs. brushed stainless - I really don't care. Either is fine. My Sterns have all been powder coat, my Williams all stainless - don't care. Shaker motor is nice, but can do without. Starfield is "meh".
When I say LE is better value, I mean that you can tally up all the stuff JJP gives LE owners and it really adds up to that price difference - and then some. This is very different from Stern, where sometimes it's hard to see where the money for the Premium/LEs went. If you don't want that stuff, then SE is for you.

Quoted from djxealot:

The lighting on the SE is fine. Inserts are still RGB. And spots are white on both SE and LE/CE. Only something like a dozen or so bulbs are white GI. It's not a big deal.
It's also something you could probably mod if you wanted to in the future. Game code is the same across models, and the bulbs are tiny little PCBs. White GI has a connector with 2 wires. RGB inserts use 4 wires. Presumably, the additional 2 wires are for the RGB signal. The first two merely control brightness. The node boards still have spots for the additional two wires.
Long story short, if you bought the RGB LEDs and added two wires to each run, you'd have full RGB lighting if you wanted it. That being said, I kind of prefer the white GI. It's a bit brighter and easier to see.

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