It's not personal. I totally disagree with what you are saying.

Right on Vino. But i don't think JJP can ever get to Stern level of production.

Unfortunately they don't have the labor to be able to pull off 12k games a year. The quality control leaves a lot to be desired. Yet I'm still getting a POTCCE and Wonka.

As for Stern pins and "affordability", the LE's are $8900 and they typically sell out immediately.

$8900 for an LE isn't "cheap" and they crank out the volume because the demand is there and they make great games.

Ridiculous comments like "there is nothing in there to break" is just plain ignorant, especially for someone that claims to keep buying Stern games?

Your gonna love Pirates Ice... I’m thinking I should have said the hell with it and gotten the CE but oh well. What’s nuts is how good the game is and it’s only at .99

I can't wait! That's what everybody says. Hard to believe code is only at .99. But that's Keith for you

Swap AS for Met and you and I have the same collection!

I have one of the last to leave the line JJPPOTC LEs and the only issues I had were a sagging screen which damaged the backglass during shipment, JJP already sent me a new one. A ball locking issue with the chest, which I fixes in about 5 minutes with a pair of pliers. So I've had about as much trouble with this highly complex game from a NIB experience, as any others I purchased over the years. I feel like QC has stepped up since earlier this year, but time will tell.

For the differences in standard and LE, I'll keep it simple and let the individual decide what's important. The LE gives you:
powder coating
shaker
RGB GI
external volume control
added playfield molded toys
spinning pop bumper pirate
starfield map
Invisaglass
lighted topper

Its an amazing game, one you really get the feeling its a game you'll keep forever. If I did not own an LE already, I would purchase a standard and add the shaker, Invisaglass, and a bunch of mods from the Mod Couple and Mezel and not look back. I don't think you'll miss the rest. Having the choice, I went with the LE, mostly because the additions easily add up to 1k, so I didn't feel like it was a cash grab, like other model upgrades often are.

Im thinking of unloading my Congo and Ms Pacman arcade plus cash to get a LE if i can find one. If not, i will keep my deposit with Wonka LE. Cant go wrong.

It is never all games having issues it is can be just %5 but just %5 is a big deal

It was sarcasm. It was making fun of people who post ridiculous comments by posting a ridiculous comment. Maybe it was too subtle. :p

And I’m not just claiming it, I actually do it. I have pics of 4 of those pins in my game room at some point on this forum. I even made a video of my Iron Maiden unboxing. My Aerosmith is arriving this week, bought it from Lermods.

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Its an amazing game, one you really get the feeling its a game you'll keep forever. If I did not own an LE already, I would purchase a standard and add the shaker, Invisaglass, and a bunch of mods from the Mod Couple and Mezel and not look back. I don't think you'll miss the rest. Having the choice, I went with the LE, mostly because the additions easily add up to 1k, so I didn't feel like it was a cash grab, like other model upgrades often are.

Interesting as this is exactly what I did with my SE. I got my SE in a trade so I did not have the SE/LE internal debate. If I did tho, I most likely would have ended up SE. I can see people doing the math and the 1K difference is a good deal but for the most part I would be paying for mods I normally would not buy. I never have bought invisi glass (turns out my game came with it as a “free”option),nor have I bought the external volume knob. I would like the star map it seems cool, the color changing lights are ok to me but I get the color information on the pirate inlanes two other ways. I like the CE topper but the LE topper is ok but not something I would buy separate. The spinning pirate is actually a turnoff for me.
I bought a shaker and the stainless trim is superior to me then the LE powder coating. so for me as stated I feel for 89 percent cost you get 99 percent of the game play. Add a shaker and I am at 99.5percent. Yes there is the “mods” discount but to me it seems like buying something not because you want it but because it was on sale.
That being said, it is easy to see this forum greatly prefers the LE and there is a resale premium maybe but I do not see selling this one anytime soon

OK guys time to take them out add see whos is bigger

After re reading, I have no ill will towards iceman. I think my sarcasm was too subtle and he took it as serious and acted accordingly. Water under the bridge.

Yeah man I missed the sarcasm!

The thread is about JJP Potc and it looks great to me. I’m excited to to explore the journey!

Stern premiums offer some excellent pins at decent value

My favs are BM66 and TWD

I’d love to see TWD remade with an LCD

At least you guys didn’t screw up like me and cancel your LE Monday, call back Tuesday to say never mind--too late, last one on the line-sold! Oops. On to the Standard...

TWD is on my list, near the top. LE preferably. I’ve played it and with cleland mod it’s fantastic.

I've been more than vocal about my issues with POTC and the chipping of the playfield. I still would suggest it as a purchase and the SE is way more than sufficient in gameplay and enjoyment. The toys are a non-starter in terms of dissuading a purchase and at most invisglass and shaker motor added would be really all the plussing it needs to be a greater game. It and WOZ won't be leaving my collection any time soon.

Just as a data point in the other direction: We've had a POTC LE on location for about half a year now, and have had no more issues than with a typical Stern. (Hobbit, on the other hand...)

Earnings have been consistently good -- POTC is consistently in the top-3 out of the 12 pins we have at that location.

It's always kind of silly doing these types of comparisons.

Do you want a fast pro game with easier to understand rulesets, refined action, and a theme that is more likely to resonate with you? Go for a Stern.

You want a large, heavy, complicated, deep, toy and-gimmick-laden experience that might wow somebody who hasn't played a pinball machine in 20 years or ever? Right this way, I've got a pirates for you.

I think a lot of home game room folks - especially those who are maybe looking to impress/capture friends/family/kids (ie: people who don't really like pinball) will gravitate towards something like Pirates. If you value gameplay and tournament-style rules and goals, you are probably better off with a Stern.

More of a middle ground are JJP games like Wonka and Dialed In.

From the OP's opener and following posts, seems like Pirates is the only answer. He doesn't sound like the type who will be impressed by a deadpool on a spring, but a huge LCD, rocking boat, and a button you pound 900 times a game might be just what the Dr. ordered. WHenever someone starts out by noting the "low quality" of Sterns you know they want to spend more money and get more "stuff" with a JJP.

Are you suggesting that ‘people who really like pinball’ or ‘value gameplay’ are more likely to enjoy Sterns and less likely to enjoy a Pirates? I could have misread this.

Otherwise I’d have no disagreement with the rest of your assessment.

I will take a Star Trek premium easy over the other choices. Better game by far and cheaper than JJP too.

If what you say is true, then one of my favorite machines, TZ, must also be “a large, heavy, complicated, deep, toy and-gimmick-laden experience that might wow somebody who hasn't played a pinball machine in 20 years or ever”.

Or not. JJPOTC is too complicated for a novice. Just a different kind of experience. I love my Sterns, they are incredibly fun, and I prefer them on average, but I’m not sure how the JJP games can be casually dismissed. They helped raise the game for Stern and my Batman66 thanks them.

Why wouldn’t potc being a good tournament game?

It takes forever
too many potential ball traps and things that can break
thousands of "action button" hits may damage star player's hands damaging tournament's reputation
terrible streaming game for audience thanks to convoluted overbaked ruleset and difficulty in following ball/action
constant rocking of boat playfield may cause motion sickness for players and viewers

besides that it's perfect for tournaments.

When choosing games these days it's more important than ever that suitability for streaming is considered. I wouldn't consider POTC a good game for that purpose at all. Besides the issues described how am I as a commentator supposed to boom a game where there's always 15 things running at once and a good game with 4 players takes an hour?

Perhaps.

I think a lot of knowedgable pinball players value Pirates for the well designed, unique, and fun game that it is too.

I like JJP but they have nothing to do with BM66.
It has everything to do with Lyman raising his own game around rules and theme integration.

First LCD screen integration

Thank goodness.
Without LCD integration we were stuck with games like LOTR, TSPP, MET, ACDC, and TWD.

Ok, I like your sarcasm, but BM66 is definitely the best realization of LCD integration into a game to date, and it makes a huge difference. Imagine how these games you listed would be with the larger LCD screen! Lyman is brilliant no matter the situation, he makes it all great. I think Batman 66 is 100% Stern and love it. My point here, and it sounds like you’re a bigger JJP fan than me, is competition is healthy and pushes innovation. I don’t get culture here sometimes, so I’ll take a break and get back to this book. It’s just a hobby. I’m glad there are so many great options.

Agree on more options the better.
All good, BM66 has been a hit for us too!

What a load of nonsense. You may as well say LOTR and TSPP are rubbish as well. There are heaps of us that have old Bally games and want to have something different in our collection that brings a new experience. At its heart JJPOTC is feature laden but a quick brutal machine to many. I love all my machines but Pirates is not a gimmick and it rocks. Make people motion sick..... Hurt little tournament players handies..... ppppfffffffttt. Sick of the biased bullshit from some posters. Bally, Stern, AP, Spooky and JJP are all fantastic. Just enjoy.

And a mate of mine who has TZ, SS and IJ cannot stop talking about Pirates since he came over to play. He has been bitten by the bug. I should tell him he is not a real player.....

Very good points.

Thx this is very helpful.

OP, just get the upgraded pirates already.

Any game can have a chip happen in the clearcoat, see pic of my GOTG. Doesn't mean all Stern's are crap either. Too much Coke vs Pepsi BS on here these days, you can't tell who's giving an honest opinion and who has an agenda

BTW not calling anyone out in particular, just using the quote for context.
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Or maybe it’s this kind of backward, pompous thinking that makes pinball tournaments so unwatchable. Your quite the ambassador.

If this was all gumnut01 said I could agree but his post as a whole based on what CrazyLevi said make no sense at all "very good point" is left as one big ???

Excellent point.

I wouldn’t want lotr or simpsons in a tournament I was running either. Both play too long and would make for terrible streaming.

I’m starting to wonder if anybody here has even the slightest ability to read and understand English. The word “rubbish” was nowhere in my post.

This makes absolutely zero sense. It’s exactly this kind of reasoning, thought, and care that makes tournaments “watchable.”

You guys are bitching at me for the Wrong reasons. When did I say pirates isn’t a good game for you guys to buy? I actually RECCOMENDED that the op buy one over a stern premium.

Isn’t that what you want to hear? It’s certainly what the guy who started this thread wanted to hear.

It’s the same game. I’m actually getting more excited about a Standard instead of the LE. $8500 seems like a great price in this market for a machine packed full of tech. I’m thinking about doing my own starfield with fiber optics, which would look better than LED, would be interested in the GI rgb conversion if I think it even needs it, prefer stainless over the textured powder coat on the LE, and bet I can make a cooler custom topper more like the CE. Also, you can get invisiglass cheaper if you buy more than one sheet, and I want one for my TZ.

I quoted both of crazylevis comments. He clearly states in his first comment that pirates would only wow someone who hasn’t played pinball in over 20 years or ever. So he was not only saying the game is crap he was offending the people who liked it and own one. I agree that pirates is different to any other game and that’s why I bought one. The OP is not an operator, he wants it for his home. He is also after opinions on what will give him fun at home.

I quoted his second comment because he said the rocking ship would make viewers and players seasick. And that the action button would cause player injuries. Does anybody think this is credible? Watched heaps of streams from buffalo and SDTM have not chundered yet.

As I said all manufacturers are great and the variety of games on offer is fantastic. The best age in pinball. There are people who do not like the game that’s fine. But don’t put down people that do.

Bottom line: you can like fast stern games, Bally Williams games and pirates at the same time. There is no us and them. Play pirates and see if you like it.

To answer the OP, I have never played ST or GOT. But I do own an AFM which has similarities to ST. I would not sell my AFM to buy pirates ever. Having said that I would not sell pirates to buy AFM. They are completely different. I did go for a Pirates because I did want something a bit more complex to supplement AFM. But to choose between the 2 is impossible for me. Maybe if I can hold out an olive branch that’s what CrazyLevi was trying to say, that you can’t compare the 2.

Pirates is a fast game though, and can have some really quick games. I am not a tournament player, just a novice. The rule set once learned is not that difficult. It is Multiball heavy, it has 6 and they can all be kicked off at the same time. So that can be hectic. I actually find it non linear because anything (besides the wizards) can be started at any time and as I said multiballs can be concurrent with each other and chapters as well. It is multilayered. It does use Bally style flippers which feel a lot less clicky than my TSPP. Multi player is fantastic. The plunder mechanism is so much fun, can cause a real shit stir in our home!

I own an LE, I would miss the shaker and would advise on getting that. The external audio is handy, but not worth 1k. Star map is fun but ancillary.

I guess you could look at resale of other JJP machines, I cannot comment. Don’t think we will be getting rid of.

In terms of build quality, there have been a few issues all resolved. Again cannot see what 20 years will bring. The Pearl is on a shared rocking motor that I believe is used in WOZ, and most parts are Bally/Williams so should be ok. If a board goes? Who knows!!! I might have a brick. This can happen with pretty much every modern day pinball though.

Good luck!

I also see from your collection that you have MET an awesome game. I also see you used to own an WOZ. I have played WOZ and DI only about 5 times each but did not like them. Neither did the family. So I’m not a JJP fanboy. I think pirates would sit with MET just fine!