And still no communication here from JJP while every other company seems to care about engaging their customers on Pinside. Spooky is active posting for Rick and Morty. Scott Danesi has remained active posting for TNA. AP is active and posting about Oktoberfest (their previous title) and Hot Wheels. Keith Elwin posted about Jurassic Park and Dwight Sullivan has been posting about TMNT. Meanwhile JJP seems be happy staying on mute except to give interviews saying they're working on other stuff.

And Lyman's been on talking about EHOH quite a bit (and posting crazy updates for that game almost every 3 weeks!). I'm sure everybody at JJP is helping with the move, I bet they're busy as hell with that.

Yep and it goes back to my original point. When the updates stop flowing, communication stops, and the game is no longer in production then it's time to be a bit concerned about when another update will happen because other things start taking priority for their business. I think that situation started becoming apparent last fall.

See post 15140 for picture of new bracket. Compare to yours. Old one is smaller.

LTG : )

Yep. My last strand of hope is how Stern eventually went back to KISS what... 2 years later? Finally made that a halfway worthwhile game

This game is fantastic as is. The rules are deep and well implemented. It's not like initial Stern code at all.

Have a lot of people completed all movie modes in one game without a wizard mode, or are they just insisting it exist even though they have no ability to see it? And what's wrong with the ball search?

thanks

Yes, it's a fantastic pin. But JJP sold us a "code complete" pin, which it is not. And it's not just missing a final wizard mode, character features need tweaking, some scoring is unbalanced, and there are multiple other things that need fixing (ball saves, etc). JJP could not give a sh*t about pirates. So yes, I love the pin, JJP not so much.

Other than missing a final wizard mode, the above items do not indicate incomplete code. They indicate a desire for it to just be better. I get it, but the missing wizard mode is the only valid argument for incomplete code.

Just curious as it may improve my score, where is the scoring unbalanced? I want to take advantage of it.

What characters need tweaking? Are some traits listed but not implemented in code? I generally pick the same few.

Also, what things need fixing? My ball search doesn't cause problems. And having no ball save is by design. It's better that way.

The one thing I might question is Liar's Dice. It doesn't seem completely random, fair and balanced. I think they used a crappy algorithm. The opponent doesn't make calls like I would expect from a real opponent. But the code still seems complete with it.

Might just be me, but when the final code comes out I intend to ease up the settings and move posts to give me a pretty reasonable chance of seeing the whole game because I want the ability to enjoy the game the whole way through it. I don't really care if I can make it there in the full competitive settings mode or not. For people who only want to play in competitive pinball mode yes, most won't get there. But I don't think it should matter whether you're going to keep settings the same, change settings, or what your ability level is. I think the code should get finished to deliver the features JJP marketed for the game.

I look at it this way, if I had bought a new car and it ran fantastic, but every once in a while it stalled due to some code in the ECU, I'd want that fixed. Putting aside semantics on "code complete", imo there are things that need to be fixed, and things that could be improved. For unbalanced scoring I would give the 66k award for completing shot X during 666 multi-ball as an example - way to low. Or even the wizard mode values, they can be lucrative if you're a pinball savant, but for most of us, the payout is trivial. Eric has already posted what he plans on adjusting with the characters. For fixing, how about a ball save when sdtm occurs from the chapter start release. I get that none of this makes the pin any less amazing, but for me I just feel like JJP doesn't care.

There's a thread for the topic. Yes, most of the things can be considered polishing items (like the placeholder animation screen for one of the wizard modes or the shaker for sinking the Dauntless) and the only real feature missing is the final wizard mode (even though when they introduced the game JJP said they would ship it feature complete), but there is enough polish & tweaking left to do on the game that I think most game manufacturers would build updates for them. And also on Eric's stream a few weeks ago he mentioned new code logic will fix issues with the inner loop orbit not registering shots, so that's a good example straight from JJP. Here's the thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-code-change-game-play-requests-#post-4999608

Ball save on sdtm from the mode start is a MUST. And so easy they could implement that in 5 minutes and put out a partial release. It’s a real buzzkill when it happens. Ruins an otherwise good game.

I've done it twice now, but I love the game. I can't get to the missing wizard mode on any consistent basis and there is plenty to still do with all the characters and high score boards so I am personally willing to be patient. I have confidence in Keith that when it does come, it will have been worth the wait.

That's not a good example.

Unbalanced scoring is when there is a way to boost your score without sufficient play or skill, a loophole to a high score.

66k scoring is just a feature in the game that if it didn't exist, you wouldn't even know. It's as relevant as midnight madness. A cool novelty but not a quick way to a high score.

You don't want to lose to someone who got a 1M mystery award. That is an example of unbalanced scoring.

I agree. The values are probably too low for how hard they are to get, same thing with Treasure Hoard only being 50k...although I did manage to get that with 6x running for 300k once which was nice.

JJP Pirates is no Ghostbusters. You can't just hit a couple of ramps, bounce off some targets and standups and luck your way into a 350mil GB video mode or huge super jackpots and beat someone who is playing through the game with skill. I don't think scoring is unbalanced in Pirates at all personally. You definitely could argue that some things are not valuable enough for their difficulty (666666, treasure hoard, wizard modes, etc) but you aren't going to luck out and get a ton of points and beat someone else on JJP Pirates with a big mystery award or a ridiculous 40x multiplied shot. All the big scoring opportunities in JJP Pirates require a lot of thought and planning with exact shots and timing to make them really pay off, there really isn't much luck involved at all.

potato, patato.

Or corn

Unbalanced scoring is a term I've heard but a topic I've never waded into. Honest question just out of curiosity and my own lack of pinball sophistication: Would something that's pretty challenging to do that's awarded similar points as something not as challenging be considered unbalanced scoring also? Again, just curious how the term is usually used. To me being unfamiliar with the topic I'd think it could be considered unbalanced either way with a loophole to a high score or with a tough achievement that isn't rewarded much more than an easier achievement. Although with the tougher vs. easier achievement example I guess you'd just strategically want to pick going for the lesser one repeatedly and in that case maybe it would just be called a case of bad design instead of unbalanced scoring?

You can save up for tortuga multiball then start a wizard mode. With a simple shot to tortuga you now have multiball during a wizard mode. Was stated to be a bug well over a year ago still not fixed. No presets so that people with less skill can play on easy while better players can play on hard. (not a bug but dam close) almost impossible to get super jackpot for OST. Forks not going up when qualifying a lock (I have seen virtual lock work when this happens but very rarely). Inner loop not registering which if memory serves keith stated they were trying to fix with code that it was not a hardware problem. Im sure there are plenty other little things. I wwould agree characters are technically complete but personally would love to see more things to make them fun. Some fun stuff the beta people are playing with I guess. I maintain my view of noone would be complaining if they opened up beta code to everyone. Maybe not on a new machine but if your making your customers wait on a out of production machine until you feel like doing it because you have better things to do at least let owners have some fun along the way. With what keith said a few weeks ago I would be surprised if we see anything within the next year. Which frankly I dont quite understand because keith said he was already in chicago before the move and everywhere was on lockdown. Not sure what he was doing for those 2-3 months

I don't think there is a specific definition.

I've always considered unbalanced scoring when a game rewards an inordinate amount of points when very little pinball skill is used to earn it.

Generally if a feature is very difficult yet rewards big points, it's balanced. (Hard work, big payoff. )

A difficult feature with low score potential will not inadvertently allow a weak player to beat a better player. It' would be an example of a lousy scoring feature. Strategically, it would serve little purpose.

Longer one is the new/updated version. Ordered and received from JJP.

10C57CA5-8E14-4C8A-ACBC-8E3B23A0B078 (resized).jpeg

3DD42FCA-B696-479E-876E-15ECA2FC270B (resized).jpeg

This. Plus the ball search never actually kicking out a ball when it doesn’t find one in multiple searches. Plus the fact that Keith touted rule changes for characters that were already done- months - maybe even a year? ago. Plus the beta test code that has ALREADY been released to beta testers 2 1/2 months ago.

This can also be stated as a feature of the rules or strategy for playing mini wizards. Getting a mini wizard mode is tough. Having Tortuga ready at that time is another fold to the challenge. The amount of Gold required to collect increases each time as you progress toward the mini wizards. It's no gimme.

It's 100% exactly the same as stacking a mode with a multiball, which is THE most common play strategy that you will always see used by good players.

Stuck forks to lock in the chest or problems starting OST have not been my experience.

The ball search may be a bug needing a fix for location games. When I play at home, I always remove stuck balls and try to fix where they get trapped.

It’s not hard to set up tortuga multiball when you expect you will make a wizard mode. 50 gold is 5 loops and a gold target shot. Loops can be fed from chest. Not hard. Not sure how it is a feature when Keith said it is a bug. Only way you are supposed to be able to play 2 balls in a wizard mode is with ragetti using his special.

My forks are fine and not stuck when it happens the coil never fire and the forks just stay down. Seems like it only happens when 2-3 multiball dare going when you qualify chest lock. It’s not that the forks don’t go up. It’s that the software is so fucking stupid it won’t award the lock when you hit the first chest opto followed by loop exit opto. This would mean the ball travelled through the chest shot and made it to loop exit. If I have a lock qualified and that happens with a single ball lock should be awarded and it’s not. Hell there is a switch on the forks why does the coil not try to fire a 2nd time if the switch doesn’t activate?

I never said I had problems starting OST. It is the easiest one to achieve and play. I stated that the super jackpot was almost impossible to get. I think in a over 1000 games I have consciously got 1 maybe 2 super jackpots for that mode. I also feel like trying to drive my ball into a plastic post to make another ball trigger an opto is a recipie for breaking the plastic post.

<blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoaacakaquaote cite="#5723156">I also feel like trying to drive my ball into a plastic post to make another ball trigger an opto is a recipie for breaking the plastic post.

Considering those posts come up all the time to stop balls dead in their tracks, I can't see this rarely used feature causing an issue.

I understand a lot of your code frustrations but they seem to be prioritizing other work due to NEED. I doubt they are sitting there cackling that their personal games are finished and doesn't it suck to not be in their elite inner circle. They are working hard I am sure. And yes I would want the update today if I could get it. If it takes another six months, I am not going to wither away in that time from lack of having an awesome game to play.

POTC is already the best game IMO I have played. Not perfect, but really the only game that seems to keep having something to give no matter how epic the game I am having. When I drain my ball there is always something left on the table; almost started another multiball, almost started a wizard mode etc...

You're strategizing when you get close to a mini wizard mode, like a good player.

My only suggestion would be to use paragraph breaks.

But I will concede your point that fixes are needed for the code, but nothing in my opinion indicates incomplete rules other than final wizard mode.

anyone here if there is a code update coming

Im just pointing out there are plenty of things to fix other than a completely missing super wizard mode. And to be quite honest it is bullshit that we have not gotten an update in over a year. Keith said he would not put out another update until the final wizard mode was done. This would be fine if he was actually working on the update, but what in the podcast made you think he was working on it or even had any interest in it anymore. To say I had other things I wanted to work on tells me PoTC is at the very bottom of his list. There will always be something new and exciting. Im half tempted to listen to the podcast again. The guy has had 2+ years to figure something out and get it done yet we are still waiting for just the basic QOL adjustments that are needed. I think I'm going to start calling keith George R.R. Martin. Both know how to ruin a good thing

Hey Gnarlee, do you have the link for the podcast? thx

Never Mind, just did a search on my Podcast App

Is this a nice to have or a replacement freebie?

F Liar's Dice! I swear to God I never win Liar's Dice on the first time ever and my overall win percentage has to be awful. I would bet no better than 20-25% overall. There is probably a record of it in the menu, I should check. It's so ridiculous. I'll have 2 of something and bid 3 hoping that the computer has just 1 of that number...he never does, calls me a liar and I lose. Then the computer will bid 3 of something that I have none of and I'll call him a liar and sure enough he always has 3 in his hand alone. Damn computer seems to always have a full house of numbers. So ridiculous, it's just an excuse for me to lose my gold, souls or treasure...I should never play it but I keep hoping something will change. That's all, just had to vent.

I hear you! The computer always seems to have 3 or 4 of a kind, whereas I always seem to have like 2,2,3,4,5. I have won some great ones, but have lost many more. It seems to help to lie on your 1st or even 2nd bid. He bids two 3's. Hell, bid two 4's even though you don't have any! But that still only helps when you have decent dice to begin with. But I'm with you. It rarely works out in your favor.

ugh!! that naked Tortuga hole! Please for society's sake, don't ever take that cliffy off!

I agree with this guy.

I’d say you need it. Tartuga drains were driving me batshit. Other solutions are out there (Setting VUK coil strength to 6 so it trickles out) but for consistency I believe this is the best.

A question for those who have the disc silencer installed. The Mod Couple instructions suggested that the new rubber gear was an 'optional' upgrade. Out of curiosity how much of a difference does this piece make? I've installed the kit but not the new gear (yet).

I've noticed that my existing gear does not have any grub screws installed - it is simply wedged over the top of the motor shaft. The instruction manual suggests there should be two screws holding it in place. Anybody else had that?

U sure? The stock gear on mine has the set screw

The rubber gear is standard with the kit not optional? Are you certain your old gear did not screws as that is the only thing holding the gear on from factory.

There is audits in the menu and it's just like I thought, horrible. The worst part is I bet at least a few of those wins are from when I was Davy Jones and that is his advantage so it's even worse. Now I remember why I usually don't even bother trying to light it as an award. Something is definitely weird in the audits too because it says my treasure hoard points are zero and you can see I've collected it and the high score table for it says that mine is 350,000.

IMG_20200701_104508 (resized).jpg

100% my factory gear didn't have any grub screws. Surprisingly the factory gear simply prised off. Seems there's been a few 'factory anomalies' on my game. Upper left flipper had the wrong coil sleeve in it too.

Yes the rubber gear is included in the kit but the instructions suggest that it used to perhaps be an add-on? Was just curious as to how much this new gear quietens things down.

I understand asking the question, but not many people probably went through the effort of unscrewing the disc assembly and "releveling it" without also doing the new gear.

If nobody chimes in you can do it and provide feedback for the record. I know the kit overall helped out. It is definitely not silent, and the 3D printed shim broke on me twice now (and that did help with the noise). I should probably get a small plastic washer and try again to shim it, but overall the kit was really worth the investment. I would be tempted to buy another "gear" just in case mine ever wears out!

Installing this also gave me an opportunity to better center the disc mechanism. It was noticeably off before, now it is "perfect". I had to drill out the bracket a bit to shift it and provide some repositioning flexibility (Preferable to me over putting more holes in the playfield... and hoping it would be more centered).

I have lost all lights on the rocking ship (rest of the game is fine). What's the most likely culprit; fuse or plug? I looked under the playfield but didn't notice anything obvious.

Plug under the rocking ship.

LTG : )

There is a 2-connector wire; I think the wires are light blue. You’ll have to remove the ship to get to it, but it’s an easy and obvious fix. Put some tape or a dot of glue to keep it from happening again

HA! More Liar's Dice ridiculousness. I had my phone by me so I figured I would take pictures of before and after since I thought it would probably turn out this way. I was actually dealt a full house, couldn't believe it. Got up to three 6's as my bid, computer bids four 1's and I have none. I thought I must have this one won right? Of course not. Down goes my already horrible LD winning percentage. I wonder if your LD winning chances go up or down depending on what your score is at the time? Liar's Dice shouldn't be this difficult as an award.
IMG_20200702_135155 (resized).jpgIMG_20200702_135200 (resized).jpg

Not BS, just the RNG doing it's job. If you didn't know how Liar's Dice works:

CPU rolls 7 dice and keeps the best 5.
Player rolls 6 dice and keeps the best 5.
If you are playing as Davy Jones, you roll 10 dice and keep the best 5.

Try playing as Davy Jones for a while and see how many rounds you can win.

I don't recall the computer really lying even when I have been in a similar position.

Basically don't call the cpu a liar out of the gate unless you want to lose

Playing with Davey Jones I think I probably have 25% of my total Liar's Dice wins ever and for sure my only two 2+ LD wins in a single game. My problem is whenever I only have 2 of something and I bid 3 of that same number, he calls me a liar and I loose. Then in situations where I actually have multiples of a number like the one above I'll bid truthfully so I don't care if he calls me liar, but he outbids me and I'm screwed. I can't bid 5 cause he'll call me a liar and I'd loose and you would hope he wouldn't have have 4 of a kind out of 5 dice, but of course he does in these situations. I could try 4 sixes, but he never lets me go uncalled at 3 unless he has a monster hand and then he'll bid himself, so bidding four is just asking to be called a liar.

I agree, I never call the computer a liar right away. The computer doesn't seem to lie very often at all ever. Problem is, he always calls me when I lie and always seems to have ridiculous hands to back up anything he bids so he doesn't need to lie so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Can't lie cause he'll call me on it, but can't call him a liar because he'll have it in his hand.