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(Topic ID: 271454)

JJP moving to standard body pins


By adamsebas

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 66 posts
  • 42 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 4 months ago

    If this is legit then it could spell the end for wide bodies from JJP.
    Personally I think it would be good move!

    105629183_665743294152996_1060035225578073660_n (resized).jpg
    #2 4 months ago

    If pat considered TZ a mistake (wtf) then why make Road Show?

    #3 4 months ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    If pat considered TZ a mistake (wtf) then why make Road Show?

    And Addams Family with 20,000 machines produced...show us where Lawlor thinks TZ was a mistake.

    #4 4 months ago

    Didn't it we already know JJP wides were done?

    #5 4 months ago
    Quoted from dts:

    And Addams Family with 20,000 machines produced...show us where Lawlor thinks TZ was a mistake.

    That's a weak argument. If all the normal pins were at 20k each, then I'd agree. You can't use that argument for everything. Can you use that logic for pins with hands in them? Pins with four flippers? Pins with the word family" in it prove that those sell better? Just coincidence from an era where pins sold actually well.

    #6 4 months ago

    No way, seems harsh to post that from JJP and can’t be true, just need to figure out how to make a JJP pin play fast or faster

    #7 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:

    No way, seems harsh to post that from JJP and can’t be true, just need to figure out how to make a JJP pin play fast or faster

    Have you played a Wonka that's dialed in?

    #8 4 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Didn't it we already know JJP wides were done?

    Yea, they are probably going Stern way, the less that is in the game, the better.
    A couple of plastic ramp and as far from a world under glass that is possible.

    Art and code is cheap and doesn't come broken.

    #9 4 months ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Have you played a Wonka that's dialed in?

    Only JJP pin not played yet, want too and heard good things.

    #10 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:

    ....and heard good things.

    Ha!

    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    A couple of plastic ramp...

    How do you say "fucking bean counter" in Swedish?

    #11 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:

    No way, seems harsh to post that from JJP and can’t be true, just need to figure out how to make a JJP pin play fast or faster

    Crank up the back legs and remove the out lane rubbers. Problem solved

    #12 4 months ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    That's a weak argument. If all the normal pins were at 20k each, then I'd agree. You can't use that argument for everything. Can you use that logic for pins with hands in them? Pins with four flippers? Pins with the word family" in it prove that those sell better? Just coincidence from an era where pins sold actually well.

    My point was that between AF, TZ, and RS some 40,000 games were built. I’ve read a lot on the development of TZ and have never heard that Lawlor thought it was a mistake.

    #13 4 months ago
    Quoted from Nickson:

    Crank up the back legs and remove the out lane rubbers. Problem solved

    Don’t get me wrong I love everything in a JJP pin but can’t get that Steve Ritchie feel or flow if you know what I mean and hope GNR delivers it.

    13
    #14 4 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Ha!

    How do you say "fucking bean counter" in Swedish?

    Helvetes ekonomiavdelning.

    #15 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jackontherocks:Don’t get me wrong I love everything in a JJP pin but can’t get that Steve Ritchie feel or flow if you know what I mean and hope GNR delivers it.

    Well they can't all have the sweet flow of TFTC

    Quoted from mtn-:

    Helvetes ekonomiavdelning.

    Takk!

    #16 4 months ago

    I think it would be a good move. Every JJP I’ve played (all of them) has felt like a big slow boat!

    #17 4 months ago

    The only thing Lawlor considered a mistake with TZ was the complexity. He made a fake for hardcores & location players didn’t understand it at all.

    B/W collectors loved widebodies & that’s why JJP started with them. Buyers/collectors changed from B/W fans to Stern Army...and Stern Army were mostly fast/flow fans, and became the tastemakers....they declared widebodies = bad, so here we are.

    Added 127 days ago:

    *typo..meant “game”, not “fake”

    #18 4 months ago
    Quoted from adamsebas:

    I think it would be a good move. Every JJP I’ve played (all of them) has felt like a big slow boat!

    You mean: every JJP widebody? Because DI is definitely not a slow boat...

    #19 4 months ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    You mean: every JJP widebody? Because DI is definitely not a slow boat...

    Actually, I will admit that DI is not too bad in regards to feeling snappy and somewhat quick.

    17
    #20 4 months ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Have you played a Wonka that's dialed in?

    Have you played a dialed in that's Wonka?

    #21 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    B/W collectors loved widebodies & that’s why JJP started with them.

    Imo that's not it. B/W collectors don't love widebodies (except for TZ maybe). The superpin thing by Williams failed in the 90ies and B/W collectors don't search for Judge Dredd or RoadShow

    As far as I understand it, JJP wanted to offer more on the playfield than Stern. He chose for widebodies as that way they could physically fit more onto the playfield.

    The rest of your post I agree with

    #22 4 months ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    You mean: every JJP widebody? Because DI is definitely not a slow boat...

    Probably because DI isn’t a widebody too

    #23 4 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Didn't it we already know JJP wides were done?

    I had heard over a year that they were done making wide body games. But people did not believe.

    #24 4 months ago

    Well that sucks if true I love wide body look at potc .. awesome

    13
    #25 4 months ago

    I think they should continue to make both and let the designers dictate how they want to do it. If not, designs will begin to get stale quicker. Some themes are just better as a wide body with more stop and go play. Variety is a good thing!

    #26 4 months ago

    You need an extra sheet of wood to make a wide body cabinet is the reason I heard for WMS stopping them. They were just more expensive because you couldn’t get a cabinet out of a 4x8.

    #27 4 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    You need an extra sheet of wood to make a wide body cabinet is the reason I heard for WMS stopping them. They were just more expensive because you couldn’t get a cabinet out of a 4x8.

    I didn’t know if you could make a complete cabinet with one sheet. Seems far fetched, maybe if you don’t include the cabinet bottom or backbox.

    #28 4 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    You need an extra sheet of wood to make a wide body cabinet is the reason I heard for WMS stopping them. They were just more expensive because you couldn’t get a cabinet out of a 4x8.

    So...like a whole $20 sheet of plywood more? Seriously, it doesn’t make sense to eliminate wide body’s and until jjp actually confirms no more widebody pins, I won’t believe it.

    #29 4 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I didn’t know if you could make a complete cabinet with one sheet. Seems far fetched, maybe if you don’t include the cabinet bottom or backbox.

    Just something a WMS employee told me a loooong ass time ago. I don't have specific details beyond that mention.

    #30 4 months ago

    I never heard that about widebodies ?
    I did hear that the P2K cabinet size was designed with the wood sheet in mind, to keep it uptimised (whole cab out of 1 sheet / minimize losses).

    #31 4 months ago
    Quoted from dts:

    And Addams Family with 20,000 machines produced...show us where Lawlor thinks TZ was a mistake.

    TAF isn't a widebody.

    #32 4 months ago

    Cabinet =front , back , bottom, neck
    Glass.
    Lockdown bar.
    Lockdown bar receiver. ?
    Rear glass molding.
    Playfield

    I'm sure it adds up for JJP. Williams ran 7 pin Super Pin series, so with big numbers , most likely not too bad cost wise.

    #33 4 months ago
    Quoted from adamsebas:

    I think it would be a good move. Every JJP I’ve played (all of them) has felt like a big slow boat!

    Raise the pitch, increase the power to the flippers. Problem solved. My WOZ is fast and brutal. Not much flow. It is a stop and go game. But a slow boat it is not.

    #34 4 months ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    TAF isn't a widebody.

    Oh that’s right...my bad. I’ve owned RS is the past but TAF hasn’t been in my collection. Anyhow, I agree with rarehero that complexity was the only concern with TZ. “Flip here” added to the upper play field, third spiral magnet removed, etc. Development costs were also high.

    #35 4 months ago
    Quoted from adamsebas:

    ... Personally I think it would be good move!

    Not me. I enjoy playing JJP's widebody games!

    #36 4 months ago

    Um... Indiana Jones is another B/W widebody that is quite popular.

    #37 4 months ago
    Quoted from adamsebas:

    I think it would be a good move. Every JJP I’ve played (all of them) has felt like a big slow boat!

    Just like Atari pins.

    #38 4 months ago
    Quoted from dts:

    I’ve read a lot on the development of TZ and have never heard that Lawlor thought it was a mistake.

    IIRC they were closed out at the end of the run. That's usually bad from a manufacturing standpoint. I do know for sure that they broke on location all the time and were considered a turd by the operators. They used to be <$800 to pick up back in the day because of the issues. Now, STTNG broke all the time back in the day as well, but was earning a FORTUNE on location, so much so that operators would sell them for $6-$7000 to other operators.

    The cashbox was king in those days.

    #39 4 months ago
    Quoted from dts:

    My point was that between AF, TZ, and RS some 40,000 games were built. I’ve read a lot on the development of TZ and have never heard that Lawlor thought it was a mistake.

    Well we also didn't know he was to be referred to as Lord Lawlor!

    #40 4 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    Have you played a dialed in that's Wonka?

    Why yes I have sir.

    #41 4 months ago

    Narrow bodies are cheaper to make, more fun to play and easier to move.

    Having a wide body as a USP was never a great move.

    #42 4 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    IIRC they were closed out at the end of the run.

    So easy to confirm your recall is incorrect.

    15,235

    #43 4 months ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Narrow bodies are cheaper to make, more fun to play and easier to move.
    Having a wide body as a USP was never a great move.

    I'll give you 'moving bigger, heavier games' isn't better, but "more fun"?... uhhhhh, no.

    Wide bodies allow designers more room for innovation. <- fact
    Wide bodies have an overweight representation of the best games in pinball. <-fact
    Houdini and Alice Cooper likely would have been more fun in a wide body format. <- my opinion

    #44 4 months ago

    I don't see how posting the production proves they weren't closed out? BK2K was closed out as well. It just means they didn't sell as many at full boat as they'd hoped.

    You only have to look back through old Replay magazines to see that operators were selling them very cheaply a couple months later as well.

    #45 4 months ago

    I have 2 Gottlieb extra wide bodies and they are frickin' heavy as hell!

    #46 4 months ago

    I generally prefer slim, normal body games to the tugboat barge widebodies.

    17
    #47 4 months ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    So easy to confirm your recall is incorrect.
    [quoted image]

    Twilight Zones were absolutely closed out.
    I bought mine in 1993 from American Vending and Sales for $2250 NIB (Dan Clarton sold me the game).
    This distributor had 90 of them NIB in the warehouse and when they lowered the price to $2250, they were all gone in a week.

    - Lyman

    #48 4 months ago

    Quite possible that Eric just wanted to do a standard body game for his second, since his first game being a wide body was awesome.

    I have heard a couple times Jack say it was up to the designer on what format is being made. Plus, I am pretty sure they will still continue to make WOZ variations.

    I guess I am not jumping on the "JJP is moving to std body pins" outright until something is officially announced. Regardless, loving all of the new pins coming out from all of the mfrs!

    #49 4 months ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Yea, they are probably going Stern way, the less that is in the game, the better.
    A couple of plastic ramp and as far from a world under glass that is possible.

    I certainly hope so.

    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Art and code is cheap and doesn't come broken.

    Boy is that stupid.

    #50 4 months ago
    Quoted from pinballj:

    I guess I am not jumping on the "JJP is moving to std body pins" outright until something is officially announced.

    What he said. Even still this does not mean they will never make any again. Companies change their minds all of the time. Personnel at companies change all the time.

    The Chevy Camaro was supposedly dead back in 2002. Oh, then they brought it back 8 years later. Now it is rumored to be dead again. And nobody ever thought the Corvette would end up being a mid-engine someday.

    Products are like cats...they CAN have more than one life and specifications can/do change.

    The wide body pin will never be dead. Was it dead before JJP announced WOZ? Was it dead when pinball was supposedly dead?

    Give it a few years with zero wide body pins not being made and suddenly customers will be asking for them and someone will make another again.

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