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(Topic ID: 262849)

JJP Moving to Illinois


By ForceFlow

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 544 posts
  • 166 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 44 days ago by Joe_Blasi
  • Topic is favorited by 23 Pinsiders

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    -1
    #129 8 months ago

    Jack has always said that New Jersey is the most business unfriendly state in the union. Saying that in almost every way, they don’t want businesses to grow, so this is a good move, even though some of the same could be said for Illinois. But maybe this industrial park has some perks, so good for them and makes the most sense to all units be together for sure.

    Also, would think since Jack essentially does not own the company and is a very minor share holder, this also might be signaling him stepping away from the company. He is really only a spokesperson now and does not make the decisions for JJP. That is done by the investors for sure. He is only a puppet for them at this point.

    -1
    #133 8 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    So was my DI which sucked cause I had to lift the playfield all the time since it was such a unreliable POS. Stern might be flimsy but as an operator I plug em in, replace the coil stops and collect money. They're the best. Jjp games are always turned off and broken. It's why you never see them on route. Get a clue.

    You’re right on the money on this one. JJP quality is a myth, it doesn’t exist. Stern’s machines as a whole work all the time. JJP games are a continual nightmare and don’t work properly much of the time. Service issues are nonstop, has been my experience. Always stepping up to one, wondering, how long will it work today, before the hood needs to go up?

    Fun games, but service/quality nightmares. Was at a friends house playing his machines and his daughter kept saying, daddy, come fix WOZ again, it’s on the blink.

    -19
    #136 8 months ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    Agree they have well built pins, but that is also why they struggle financially. Their cost is simply too high to compete. They will eventually be absorbed.

    They struggle financially because of numerous issues, none of which is costs being too high. They struggle because:

    A. JJP MSRP is way to high to the end user. Come on WOZ jumping from $6.5k to $11.5k with monkey mech removed? Apologist say they couldn’t make any money at those prices.
    B. Manufacturing quality is the lowest in the business. (Remember JJP investors looking at Homepin’s manufacturing and saying how they were very impressed with the quality?)
    C. Manufacturing and design being so far apart (getting this one right after the move).
    D. Poor theme choices over and over again. (WOZ is very old and more of a woman’s pinball theme, Hobbit is quite niche to pinball, DI is not a good theme, POTC has been done before and without any real assets, just a good pirates game, WW is arguably good, but the game itself is more about collecting Wonka bars and not much about the actual movie. GNR has been done before & arguably not a good music band choice, Toy Story is the best of the lot theme wise and maybe a killer theme if done right with lots of mechs.)
    E. Support is mostly hard to get issues resolved in a timely fashion, if at all.

    #139 8 months ago
    Quoted from Breger1:

    I own Hobbit and POTC, never lifted mine to fix anything. Except Hobbit, screw on left flipper came lose. Never replaced a coil stop, like I have on my Stern JP 1 month after receiving it. Remember you only hear the bad stories on pinside.

    This is good to hear. Plus one customer having a good experience. Like that, because this seems to be rare.

    -2
    #147 8 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I agree on points A, C, and most recently E (they used to be great).....totally disagree on points B and D

    You might be right, a little to harsh on themes, because some are good, but come on DI as a theme? That theme sunk an otherwise good game.

    Using quality parts could be argued, but temp workers on the line, making blunders on machines being shipped, with end users needing to fix it all themselves? That is, the not so good quality I’m talking about.

    #149 8 months ago
    Quoted from titanpenguin:

    Did you research any of these topics?

    Yes

    #150 8 months ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    A. Why do you think they are so high? Because the BOM is high
    B. Disagree...I don't think they are any better or any wore than anyone out there
    C. Sure...it is a money saver, which also goes to my point of needing to heal some financial bleeds
    D. Not going to argue with this one, but the gorilla in the market likes to gobble up a lot of the good ones...and it pays off.
    E. Disagree on this one 100%. I have had dealings with their support, and I would put them at the top of any of the folks I have dealt with.

    If you’ve had good experience on support, my hats off to you. I haven't unfortunately and many I’ve spoken with have had the same experience. However people like Loyd are great to deal with.

    #155 8 months ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    You don't think Stern uses temp workers? I ran a business a couple of blocks over, and used the same company. All but a handful of their production workers are temps. Most are not full time, and very few get any benefits at all. I have been there when the lines were shut down and the workers just go home and don't collect a check until they are called back.

    This is interesting information.

    #157 8 months ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    Most times I find it is in the approach. If you go after them liked they spray painted graffiti on your fence and ran over your dog, then they are not going to respond. In turn, if you decide to be a decent human being that understands nothing is going to be 100% perfect out of the box and that "things happen" from time to time, then they will bend over backwards to help you get the issue addressed.

    Agreed approach is important and the reason my approach has always been congenial. It’s not that they haven’t been nice, it’s just the time they’ve taken to address many issues. Sending washers to fix chipping and pooling is not a great solution.

    #158 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    Hoping this means they are getting a bigger factory.

    Another good reason if this happens, to move. Actually releasing 2 games a year would be good. I do like how JJP usually puts more mechs in their machines, with the exception of Hobbit and WW, the rest are loaded.

    #164 8 months ago

    Thinking this is a great move for JJP to Elk Grove.

    #186 8 months ago

    What on earth would be the motivation for Stern to buy JJP?

    -7
    #189 8 months ago

    Just skip the old band already done years ago title of GNR and get to current day relevant Toy Story.

    It’s like JJP is releasing an old Stern GNR vault edition, although it might be better, move to newer licenses.

    -6
    #191 8 months ago
    Quoted from Gritty:

    This is interesting, I wonder if Jack had much say in this or are the VC guys now running the show.

    Would think Jack is on his way out and since he doesn't own the company anymore, had zero to say about it. He’s just a puppet now and this maybe his retirement exit. Would think he’s had enough of the industry, going broke 3 times. Bailout after bailout. Current owners have had enough losing because of poor licenses (i.e., no assets), high costs of doing business in NJ, excessively heavy JJP widebody machines freight costs out of NJ, way overpriced MSRP pricing, mechanical issues of poor mechs, high support costs, split operations costs and on and on. JJP is an example of a very poorly run operation to this point.

    Like Gary once told Jack, “you’re crazy to get into this business” of manufacturing. Only Gary has figured out a way to stay in it all these years and make what all companies and shareholders expect...a profit!

    #197 8 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    There are unfortunately a few people here that want JJP to fail. Why? Who knows. Maybe they are pissed that a new pinball company came out of nowhere and one upped their all mighty Stern and repeatedly puts out a higher quality product with more features.

    I for one want them to succeed. This is a great move and will centralize everything for them. On the other hand, you most definitely have an ax to grind against Stern for some reason, always blasting them when you get the chance. Big bad Stern as you think and blasted in an earlier post in this thread.

    I hope they both succeed and bring down pricing, not continually raise it. Smarter manufacturing by both companies is the way and maybe DR will teach them both how to do it, unless Robert is just full of hot air. Like the game or not, Stern just made SW HE for a street price of $3,995.00. That is almost half the price of a JJP standard edition. Don’t tell me it’s twice as good, because we both know they are not. Buyers will not go for a $7.5k JJP Standard over a SW HE sold for $3.9k in general. Hopefully this move will restore common market sense to the new owners of JJP. They make some good games.

    #201 8 months ago

    The joke is, it’s all subjective. But a family standing in a show room will almost always choose SW for theme and fun game play for the whole family, unless they are really into pinball, then they might choose a JJP standard. But they are not twice as fun.

    #203 8 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I agree its subjective, but that Stern SW HE is a complete joke....my guess is they sold very few units....its expensive for a compulsive purchase by a non pinball....once they do a little research they quickly realize its an over priced POS

    You make some good points from pin ballers perspective. The real story here is stern achieved a $3.9k price point. That’s good news for us pin ballers too!

    #237 8 months ago

    For all us LA folk, Los Angeles has to be in the new name somewhere...

    -9
    #284 8 months ago

    Don’t get why companies sometimes make such long names for themselves. Everything becomes convoluted with long names and more difficult for customers just typing in the url. Make your name as short as possible like, Stern Pinball, Spooky Pinball, American Pinball. JJP should rebrand to make the name shorter and give it a new lease on a new beginning. They can shed much of the past that way and go forward in a new way. JJP has always been a tough name and most refer to it as JJP. Just saying Jack or Jersey doesn’t cut it. One short name in a corporate identity usually works best.

    -15
    #288 8 months ago

    JJP logo needs changing as well, imo. An outline of New Jersey, doesn’t cut it any longer and the company would have to take more time explaining that to people than selling a new pinball machine. If they wanted to keep familiar branding, just Jack Pinball, with a new logo.

    #298 8 months ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    I really thought wolfemaaan was in a league of his own in this thread. I stand corrected.

    What on earth is so wrong with common sense suggestions of improving a company name and image?
    Do you and the other 3 down voters resist change and improvements that much?

    Get over it, they moved the company out of New Jersey so they could even stay in business, because of all the folly and poorly run company in New Jersey, prior to this move. New image and times are in good order for the new Chicago based JJP. It has certainly taken them long enough to recognize what should have happened from the beginning.

    -6
    #300 8 months ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    That's what Lizzo believes...

    Heavy in pinball terms usually means outdated, old tech and very cumbersome. Anyone that has tried to move a widebody JJP machine knows the weight of poor design and old mech tech is as heavy as a small automobile (lol). Stern, Spooky, American Pinball, CGC has the weight balance figured out and for good reasons to stay with that balance.

    That’s why Pat has always refused to make widebody anything. He gets it and understands why no modern company makes that albatross of a design any longer. The ball meanders all over the play field on a widebody, along with all the other physic issues constantly happening.

    The math on pinball field design was done for a reason and settled on the standard size play field we have now for goods reasons. Just like all sports fields have been determined to be optimal for their respective games.

    -18
    #304 8 months ago

    Twilight Zone - mechanical issues galore. Many locations got tired of trying to keep them in service. Widebody did not serve that machine well. Standard body could have been sooooo much better, but we will never know. Look at JJP machines on location. Mostly out of service much of the time. Ask any operator the nightmare they are to maintain. Stern’s keep on truckin all the time on location. JJP fanatics hate to hear this.

    Again, this move for JJP is going to hopefully be a new beginning and good times for JJP in most all aspects. New owners are getting it on the right track I hope. We need for it to be good competition for Stern. Makes them better too!

    -27
    #309 8 months ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    Pat overloaded Dialed In to a ridiculous degree though.... It and Wonka, both standard bodies, weigh in at 350 pounds a piece....
    So surely these games are heavy for reasons other than being widebody games, right???

    Yes, they are so heavy for numerous reasons.
    1. Old heavy PC parts and equipment being used instead of a small Spike 2 board that is light as can be.
    2. Old Williams parts being used that are quite heavy in and of themselves.
    3. Old much heavier lock down bar. Hold a much better designed and efficient Stern lockdown bar in one hand and a JJP lock down bar in the other hand and you’ll see a difference.
    4. Inefficient heavy back box design, with heavy 27” screens that do not really add anything over the size of Sterns, Spooky’s or AP screens, because our eyes focus on the screen and unless side by side, the brain feels and sees little difference after a few minutes, because it adjusts.

    The reasons for how heavy JJP machines are go on and on. They use old heavy pinball stock parts for another reason. Again, the back box alone is very heavy. Look at how slim and much lighter a Stern back box is. A top efficient expert in pinball engineering George Gomez has been setting these new standards all the time. Look at the new shooter rod design he just came up with, which is also lighter. Stern’s design is always factoring in pinball machine weight. JJP has not given much thought to that at all. I do like all the mechs JJP puts in a machine, but there are more efficient ways of doing things and still have a packed looking machine. Look at the brilliance of a Keith Elwin designed machine. JP2 looks packed, but not near as heavy as a JJP machine.

    (You JJP fanboys hate the truth...you may now begin the downvoting, since it makes you feel better)

    #313 8 months ago
    Quoted from altan:

    Hmmm. I disagree significantly with the above.

    Enlighten us why you do.

    -5
    #325 8 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    What are you smoking?
    I suppose Sterns are so light as they are made out of carbon fiber!

    Back to being insulting because truth is spoken about your precious JJP of the past? A new beginning for JJP, let it be for you too!

    -1
    #326 8 months ago
    Quoted from altan:

    Ok, but I'll be brief and only draw attention to one aspect. You wrote

    Pat made Road Show (which is awesome). There's no ball meandering. It's also a widebody. There's also the little known Pat game Twilight Zone of which I've never heard anyone complain "the ball meanders all over the play field".

    Have heard Jack himself say one of the biggest mistakes they’ve made is getting into widebody’s. He said although Pat made them in the past, refuses to make them now and for many good reasons stated above.

    Too heavy.
    More costly to make.
    Does not make for a better pinball playing experience.
    Much higher shipping prices.
    On and on...

    #328 8 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    So here's how we get a JJP game like Hobbit to weigh the same as a Stern. First the metal ramps, gotta go plastic! Metal habit rails? Gone! 11 drop targets? No no no, we replace at least 8 of those with stationary stand up targets. A moving Smaug toy that also has an interactive jaw to speak to players? That's now a hallow plastic bash toy. 4 beast pop up mechs? Are you crazy?! Those are gone completely. Oh, and an actual mechanical kick back? Get of that and have software do it.
    There ya go my friend, now the games weigh the same

    Thanks for calling me friend. I hope we are always friends. After all this is only a forum discussion and we are both in the same boat as consumers. It is actually fun hearing your views on things, when you’re being nice and I enjoy your comments much of the time. Different view points are respected by me. flynnibus I have little to no respect for as he is always putting everyone or Stern in particular down. Calling my opinions “historic stupidity” is very low class. Thank you for not stooping to flynnibus‘s ungentlemanly manners or the lack thereof.

    #330 8 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I apologize for my rants lol. I understand some people will prefer Stern over JJP and vice versa. Even though I praise JJP often they have had plenty of screw ups that I've complained about. I'm hoping GNR is finally their first debacle free game. Every single JJP game launch has been plagued by some issue. Hopefully GNR is different.

    Thanks for that, as I too hope the best for their GNR launch. Can we all imagine how bad Stern would still be right now, if not for JJP coming into the market place??? I do want the best for JJP with this new beginning and hope they continue to up the bar for everyone. My biggest issue with JJP is their out of sight pricing (of course Stern is not much better).

    -1
    #332 8 months ago

    Hoping that Toy Story will be launched soon too, as this is an instant buy for me.

    1 week later
    #402 7 months ago

    At the end of this move, I do hope they are able to finally make it a successful proposition for JJP long term. More players in the market place is only a good thing for pinball. JJP certainly knows how to pack a PF.

    #448 7 months ago

    Here’s to hoping they are able to finally make it a successful proposition for JJP long term by this move. More players in the market place is only a good thing for pinball. JJP certainly knows how to pack a PF, like WOZ, DI and POTC. If they can stay to those roots, the next 2 should be interesting.

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