I think the video is PDI glass

I have 6 sheets and only started with 2. So yes the stuff works great otherwise I wouldn't keep buying more!

Bullshit. I have had pieces of invisiglass and PDI glass. They work for shit. Plain and simple. it's not any clearer to look through and the DMD / BG glare is just as visible as it was before. If there is a reduction it's 5% at best. You guys are full of shit and try to justify pissing away $300 on a sheet of glass that blocks out ambient room lighting. Play your games in a pitch black room and you won't know the damn difference between that and a $20 sheet of normal glass. Plain and simple. I'm not exaggerating anything.

And this is exactly the point. THe only way the glass made a difference if your 90 degrees straight down on the glass. Again, it's blocking out the room lighting great....fantastic. Useless but fantastic. The shit you actually care about. Backglass/DMD, is still plain as day from a player perspective. Unless you're the Undertaker or Shaq. The shorter you are, the crappier it works.

This is the point of contention. It bugs you because yes the backglass is still there. I buy it for the clarity of the play field .
You are telling people that they are not seeing what they see. Like a kid arguing with another kid even when they know the truth but the other kid will keep goading them.
Folks don't argue with him we all know it's stunning .

It does too make a huge difference! I have been cheering for Pdi for years. It's absolutely incredible. Invisiglass is great I think pdi is a tad better though. This is a great sale though.

lets put it this way. During league night I had a sheet of invisiglass in 1 of my machines. Out of 20 games. Not one person out of 30 could tell me which machine had the invisiglass in it. They couldn't tell the damn difference. 30 people. If it was $60 a sheet. Sure. it's worth 3x's the price of normal glass to make room lighting disappear. ANything more than that???..not for what it really does.

Looks clearer than normal glass? Nope. Maybe if your room has bright lights in it, because you're getting room lighting in your glass. Maybe. In a dark gameroom, no difference at all. You're eyes don't see through that glass any clearer than a normal sheet.

I paid $150 per sheet (bought 2) and still felt like I was ripped off. So I sold a sheet to a friend and the other went with a game I traded.

if it did it's damn job like it is suppose to, i'd buy a sheet for every game in my collection.

Instead, I buy the glare guards from Kim and for $8 they block out DMD and Alphanumeric display glare 100%. 100% without fail. for $8. Nobody ever notices them on my machines but comment why back part of the game is so clear and can see what's going on.

I don't play in the dark so my glass works great!

In fact I do not like playing in the dark at all. Each of my games has dimmed 35W MR16 LED's aimed at them.

not saying you have to play in the dark, but if you want to see what it's really blocking out and what it is not, play in darkness. Then you can really see what the glass is really doing.

For those that are happy with the room lighting being blocked. Great.

But it's kind of misleading for those that expect the DMD and Backglass glare to be blocked when it actually is not. I always try to warn people of this factor before buying. If your ok with that, then go ahead. That's not what I was looking for when I bought it. For the hefty price tag, I was expecting it to do what it was initially designed for, it did not live up to my expectations at all. not even close.

And warn... And warn... And... On look, another chance to tell us you don't like Invisiglass.

Neo your nuts!
It's much clearer. when bring another pin home I can't wait to change the glass to premium.

it's not any clearer. Your eyes are deceived it's clearer, because of the background lighting reflection is being blocked out.

Don't believe me? Try this.

Take a normal sheet of glass. and invisiglass. Stand them both on end side by side in a pitch black room. Now turn on something that lights up on the other side of the room. Stand behind both sheets of glass, with nothing but blackness behind you. Look at the item that's lit up through the glass. It will look no different from one sheet or another. CLarity is EXACTLY the same. Exactly.

I don't hate invisiglass/PDI glass. I'm pissed because I was deceived on what it was actually capable of. One by PDI when they were designing it, saying it was going to eliminate DMD/BG glare 100%, and then by others like you guys saying how great it works and it works perfectly. (by perfect, meaning not at all for what it was suppose to do). At $300 a sheet, that would piss anyone off, with it not doing any of what was expected. I don't want others that don't know better, to know what to expect. If you're buying it to block out DMD/BG glare, don't buy one. You're going to be pissed too.

not everyone sees every thread. The people thinking about it, are going to be in the thread. New people means, more new people that don't know all the ins and outs of what they are getting into. So yes, you have to mention it in pretty much every thread. When PDI and JJP glass, state a disclaimer on their FS sites, saying that it does not eliminate DMD/BG glare, everytime it's for sale. I won't have to say shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rXHANDYS9Wk

Invisiglass on left.
PDI no glare glass on right.

Neither completely eliminates light glare. But both are a marked improvement over standard glass.

if anything, jack should give me props for bumping his thread to the top all the time. I'm sure it will boost some more sales for him. But at least the sales will be informed people that will understand and know what they are buying.

Would be interesting to see the same comparison with a standard glass as well.

You have to give Neo points for persistence if nothing else, it was lock he would post in this thread and keep spreading the love!!

Funny thing is I don't totally disagree with him, to me it's not worth the extra money, but to a lot of others it obviously is, yet he continues to state his opinion like it is fact, the only fact here seems to be that he's in the minority on the subject!

In quantifiable terms we are talking 5-6% difference between no glare glass and a brand new sheet of tempered pinball glass.

I have Invisi, PDI and regular brand new sheets of glass in my machines.

A brand new sheet of standard tempered is rated at 93% anti-reflective, Invisi at 98.5, PDI at 99.5 maximum. These are optimal numbers from the manufacturers themselves.

As per Neo, no glass is 100%.

Sorry to hammer this but I played on a Woz standard a few days ago, and compared to my LE, I definately noticed the difference. I don't know how they treat it, but it makes a difference imho. I might not invest in it on a "C" game, but I think it's worth it for "A" games.

I cant even tell those are pinball machines with that 120p quality

I was skeptical about IG, but it has made a big and noticable difference for me.
Perfect? No. Expensive? Yes.

But there are two things that pretty much ensure that all my games will eventually have IG or PDI:

1) My cats don't jump up on games that have IG
2) My wife loves how it looks (or doesn't) on the games

So if I told you it was in reality way way less than that, you WOULD buy it?

I realize that it's PDI glass, but Invisiglass is comparable. (Not quite as good on specs, but close, and definitely better than normal glass.)

Unfortunately, I can't find any good videos comparing Invisiglass side-by-side to normal glass. There are plenty of videos comparing PDI glass to other options, including Invisiglass, but there are very few comparison videos of Invisiglass to other options.

I checked the Jersey Jack Pinball website, but I couldn't find any comparison videos. Just the 420x487 static picture below.

invisiglass_standard-420x487.jpg

Here's another bump for Jen, and for Jack's glass.

That said, Neo's mostly right here:

Most of my games are nicely playable in the dark, with perhaps the exception of TSPP. Glare from the backglass and DMD seriously interfere with the upper portion of the play field. Once I turn the overhead lights, all games are annoying with stock glass. Now, with the invisiglass, everything is fun - even with overhead lights in the rented warehouse space I'm using.

I always play my games with no lights on so it wont really help me your saying?

Placebo effect says that if you spend $300 on a piece of glass, it is going to be better.

Same as if you spend $10,000 on a Rolex, it'll tell better time than a $100 G-Shock. (Cough cough...)

I have been putting new "normal" toughened glass sheets on a lot of my games, and jeeeeeezus a new piece of any glass is a huge improvement on an old sheet of glass.

I have a few friends with WOZ LEs and honestly, I can't see a difference (in their rooms) between a new Stern with new standard glass and the Woz with IG.

FWIW.

rd.

I can't even believe you're serious. The difference it makes in my games is so obvious I have to think you guys are trolling. I'm talking NIB ST pro and MET. Maybe you never turn any lights on in your game room I don't know, but I honestly can't figure out how you can compare regular and invisiglass.

It has nothing to do with how much you spend on it, people who have no idea what invisiglass is have literally slammed their hand into it thinking there wasn't any glass on the machine...

Maybe you like your brand new normal sheets of glass, but man... it doesn't compare.

RD don't troll!

I designed my games room specifically for 100 machines, and the lights are put in the correct places to suit the layout. So glare is not an issue at my place. Maybe if it was, maybe I'd feel different.

On the other hand, I can't afford to buy $30,000+ USD worth of glass (Plus shipping and tax) so that's the end of that.

rd.

But you have to realize you're in a minority and giving others advice based on your abnormal scenario. How many of us play in a pitch black room? How many of us have custom light design specifically to deal with glare?

I paid nothing for my PDI glass so I have no financial skin in the game. Compared to normal glass, it makes a very visible difference in a normal or even dimly lit room.

Neo's statements on here are about as misleading as the original PDI advertising, which they no longer use. He says "it's not any clearer. Your eyes are deceived it's clearer" What does that even mean? Our eyes aren't seeing what they see?

Go to the PDI website. They say "It does not 100% get rid of glare". "We suggest also using a DMD glare guard". http://www.pinballdecals.com/NonGlareOpticalGlassPage.html

The pictures at pinball sales still show glare on the "with Invisiglass" pictures. There are no statements that it removes 100% of glare.

So, I don't know what you guys are talking about. I can understand the argument that it's not worth the money. I'm not sure I'd shell out $300 for a sheet, although for me going back to normal glass on a game that had PDI or invisiglass would be kind of hard.

_{Post edited by moderator: This type of posting is uncalled for and will serve no purpose beyond being inflammatory.}

Link to a review of non reflective glass:

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html

. 2Rustyballs

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image.jpg

It's deceiving to your eyes because you think it's clearer, but it's actually not. Looking through the glass is not going to make any objects any crisper or less fuzzy, or colors any brighter than looking at the same object through regular glass. Do my test I stated if you don't believe me. You will not know the difference. The reason you think you see stuff clearer is because of the ambient light being reduced.

As Rotordave stated, a lot of this is also how you have your room lighting setup. most gamerooms have at least one spot, that is piss poor with lighting and massive glare. If your gameroom lights are designed with this in mind, your room glare will be minimal, and you will not notice nor benefit at all from (reduced) glare glass.

All I can tell you is that at one time I had three machines side by side with an example of each in them: standard glass, Invisiglass, and PDI. My wife came in and looked at them (I had just finished working on Congo) and said, "Lord of the Rings looks the best." And she was right. What kind of glass was in there? PDI. The next day, I ordered two more sheets of PDI glass, and that's all I go with now. After we spent a few minutes comparing machines, we agreed that standard glass sucks. Invisiglass is much better. But having PDI is like having nothing there at all.

And yes...Neo is right about still having a reflection from the DMD when you play in the dark (even on the PDI), but it is pretty negligible, and you have to really look for it to notice it.

I'd take 3 but I don't know the sizes of Xenon, Stern Indiana Jones and MMr.

Ironically enough I just watched "Brain Games" that had a cake for $15 and one for $55. Everyone said the $55 cake tasted better and was more moist. They turned out to be THE SAME cake. Was interesting on how the brain works.

I do see a difference but not a $300 difference (probably because I'm a cheap skate).

I'm just surprised that in today's technological world there isn't a product that you can put on glass that reduces/removes the glare (like clear window tint that has a glare remover treatment). Almost like the treatment for eye glasses.

Serious question here. Would plexi do this? I've heard that good quality plexi (once polished) is clearer than glass (came from a custom aquarium builder). I wonder what it's glare factor would be and how it would work in a pinball machine.

I agree with you 100%! I bought my ACDC Luci used. The seller (pinsider) offered my wife and I a piece of IG for $100. The reason was the stock glass had a scratch and he was so honest and felt bad that he offered us IG. Anyway, we were not sure what to do and never had IG or PDI, on any of our 12 Pins. Well, he replaced it with IG and my wife and I were shocked and immediately looked at each other and said, "Yes, here is the $100"! It was like night and day! I do not understand how anyone could claim there is none or hardly any difference yet I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion. My 2 cents is this glass is great and if I get back to work I will slowly replace the glass on all of our pins.

Saved me hundreds, thanks. Was going to get a wide and normal but decided to pass. I play in the dark and will just go with the Bent Plastic. I'd like to see these in person before possibly picking one up...

Pretty sure plexi glass would just get super dinged up and can't be repaired. Just judging from the stuff i see at hockey rinks...

This is pure bullshit.

I heard that plexi has poor shock/impact resistance too. An airball would likely shatter or at least crack it beyond repair.

You guys are nuts. In the same light or different light in my room for 5 years the difference is amazing. Everyone who comes over notices the clarity. Reguardless of why....

they look pretty awesome in person. (I dont have any but have played many pins with it...It makes a huge difference regardless of lighting).

Sorry Dave, but I don't fall prey to placebo, and I sure as hell wouldn't waste money buying a product if it didn't work. Invisiglass and PDI glass provide a HUGE improvement in clarity over regular PF glass. The difference is not small. The difference is obvious.

Invisiglass and PDI glass spoiled me, and once I had experienced it, I had to get a sheet for as many of my pins as I could. Given the price, it's taken me a couple years, but I have a sheet on all but 1 of my pins.

Expensive, yes, but worth it especially when on sale like it is now.

Sounds like IG plus the bent plastic combo is really the way to go.

The problem with the placebo theory is that other people notice and comment on the difference who have no idea there is another kind of glass in some of the pins.

I struggle to justify spending this much on a sheet of glass, but it is obvious to me that it is an improvement.

I don't think anybody is being deceived about anything. It LOOKS way better in most settings. It doesn't matter if its because the glare is reduced, or if its because the glass is clearer (which nobody it arguing anyay). The point is that it works.

The average player is not playing pinball in a pitch black room. The average player is also not going to design the lighting in thier house around pinball.

Well Id have to know the numbers, im sorry but a lot of times in pinball it seems companies will just slap some outrageous price on a product because they figure pinheads have bottomless pits for pockets. Even way way less could still be outrageous. Like I said, im sure its a fine product but for me the price is just way off, if I want no glare ill buy the guards. I've stated my opinion and its just that. I'm sure no markup numbers are gonna be posted so its moot.