(Topic ID: 84007)

JJP Help just got my machine


By kporter946286

5 years ago



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35
#51 5 years ago
Quoted from zippydapinhead:

Then Jack shouldn't have set the noob as his target market.

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.

If this OP really spoke to his "friend" he would know that we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.

I can guarantee that anything we build will break again. I've said it for all 39 years that I'm in this industry; "If it's not broke, it's not pinball" - so - should it have issues out of the box, no, could it, yes.

We are building pinball for about a year. Ford built millions of cars forever and they still get recalls.....

To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.

I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.

That's what WE do. That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

#52 5 years ago

Problem solved.

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.
If this OP really spoke to his "friend" he would know that we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.
I can guarantee that anything we build will break again. I've said it for all 39 years that I'm in this industry; "If it's not broke, it's not pinball" - so - should it have issues out of the box, no, could it, yes.
We are building pinball for about a year. Ford built millions of cars forever and they still get recalls.....
To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.
I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.
That's what WE do. That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

The OP must have forgot to come on here and update, yeah that's it. It's funny how all of these threads start the same way, " I like JJP, and I really want them to succeed, competition is great". Then they start bashing the hell out of JJP.

#54 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Good for you. Did you ever feel like you didn't want to raise the playfield? Or that you shouldn't need to raise the playfield?

Nope. My friend's in the gaming industry, told me I was an idiot for buying a machine, that they always break, and that I'd be using it to change diapers in three months.

He was wrong on most of it, but yeah...pins do need maintenance pretty regularly.

And while I was afraid to raise the pf the first time, I love it now...it's so cool seeing how everything is interconnected!

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.
If this OP really spoke to his "friend" he would know that we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.
I can guarantee that anything we build will break again. I've said it for all 39 years that I'm in this industry; "If it's not broke, it's not pinball" - so - should it have issues out of the box, no, could it, yes.
We are building pinball for about a year. Ford built millions of cars forever and they still get recalls.....
To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.
I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.
That's what WE do. That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

Very well said Jack.

#56 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Expensive things break too. Do your homework before buying luxury items for your home.

This statement is utter bullsh!t.
Yes, some things may have to be tweaked, but games not working out of the box? Give me a break.
I own multiple cars, but that doesn't mean I can fix them when they break. Why is pinball different?

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from hank35:

This statement is utter bullsh!t.
Yes, some things may have to be tweaked, but games not working out of the box? Give me a break.
I own multiple cars, but that doesn't mean I can fix them when they break. Why is pinball different?

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter why pinball is different. It just is. People owning games need to know how to do some rudimentary things to keep them running properly. That's just the hobby.

#58 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.
If this OP really spoke to his "friend" he would know that we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.
I can guarantee that anything we build will break again. I've said it for all 39 years that I'm in this industry; "If it's not broke, it's not pinball" - so - should it have issues out of the box, no, could it, yes.
We are building pinball for about a year. Ford built millions of cars forever and they still get recalls.....
To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.
I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.
That's what WE do. That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

Great Job Jack!!! This is what I like to see. Oh and I will take that broken WOZ off your hands!!!! I can be to your shop in an hour once it arrives....Give me a good price and I'll learn how to fix the issues it has and help with future tech issues with customers in my area and on the phone. I have taken every screw out and de-soldered every wire in a couple B/W pins and restored them so I am ok with fixing issues....just saying....

-10
#59 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.

I'm assuming you mean first time location players so your target market is Operators and experienced collectors.

If that's your target, how do you explain the latest WOZ LE 75th Red version being sold the the Warner Bros WOZ catalog? I highly doubt operators and pinball collectors receiving that catalog. Are you going to put a disclaimer next to the $9000 MSRP that reads something like:

Quoted from JerseyJack:I can guarantee that anything we build will break

Quoted from JerseyJack:

To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

#60 5 years ago

Set up my WOZ last night. We played a few games last night and a couple already this morning and no issues out of the box other than a scratched up topper. The entire family is enjoying the game, and, despite being nervous because of all of the talk, what a lot of fun it has been so far! Was starting to get cold feet but so glad to go through with it! Still early but no apparent issues with my machine described in this and other threads.

#61 5 years ago

Heheh. Jack said "shit happens". Yes. Yes, it does.

#62 5 years ago

What, now Jack has to check your pinball repair credentials before he can sell you a game? Things break, things need adjusting, you don't like it play pinball on your PS4. No one should argue with that. Ask anyone with a nicely dialed in Avengers what they had to do to get it working smoothly, they'll probably happily talk your ear off for 20 minutes about their tweaks, probably are proud of them if my experience is any indication.

The key is how to the companies responsible respond when there are issues? Sounds like JJP is handling this one like they should.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.

I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.

What more could we possibly ask? (I'm serious to be clear, not sarcastic, it's a great response IMHO.)

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.
If this OP really spoke to his "friend" he would know that we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.
I can guarantee that anything we build will break again. I've said it for all 39 years that I'm in this industry; "If it's not broke, it's not pinball" - so - should it have issues out of the box, no, could it, yes.
We are building pinball for about a year. Ford built millions of cars forever and they still get recalls.....
To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.
I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.
That's what WE do. That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

I remember that Jack was very excited to get RedWoz into the Warner Brothers Catalog. Most the the buyers from that catalog will be first time pinball owners. It is not the buyers responsibility to know about early adopter issues. If a bunch of W.B. clients have issues that are not taken care of, W.B. will drop JJP like a hot rock.

Games will have problems. Bottom line it comes down to customer service. I have purchased a lot of games from Pinballs Sales, NOBODY does pinball customer service like Jack. Well done Jack and it is always good to see post on Pinside.

11
#64 5 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

I'm assuming you mean first time location players so your target market is Operators and experienced collectors.
If that's your target, how do you explain the latest WOZ LE 75th Red version being sold the the Warner Bros WOZ catalog? I highly doubt operators and pinball collectors receiving that catalog. Are you going to put a disclaimer next to the $9000 MSRP that reads something like:

Not very cool; a game was shipped with problems, it seems Jack took care of it like a pro.

Then he had to come on here and stomp out this pile of burning dog crap.

And you have to fan the flames?

I am neither a wozzer or a hater, but have more class and be happy that we are in a cool enough hobby that the company owner can come on here and set things straight personally.

#65 5 years ago
Quoted from TheDarkKnight68:

As stated many times to your "Im going to argue the opposite no matter what" self, this company drives HUO as a strategy, and 95 out of 100 people will not have any pin experience. Thus 95% or more of the consumer base is "noobs"

Did you randomly pull those numbers out of your butt or do you have some kind of evidence to back them up?

#66 5 years ago

Another friend of a WOZ customer troll thread satisfied customer

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I am neither a wozzer or a hater, but have more class and be happy that we are in a cool enough hobby that the company owner can come on here and set things straight personally.

It's a shame that he has to waste his time with stuff like this. The OP posts a long bash story but conveniently never gets to Jack's resolution, despite that being communicated to his friend earlier. So Jack is forced to come post the real story. Notice that's all he'll ever post here anymore, thanks to the trolls.

#68 5 years ago

What's up, OP? Any updates, OP?

torpedo.jpg

#69 5 years ago

^^Love it^^

#70 5 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Not very cool; a game was shipped with problems, it seems Jack took care of it like a pro.
Then he had to come on here and stomp out this pile of burning dog crap.
And you have to fan the flames?
I am neither a wozzer or a hater, but have more class and be happy that we are in a cool enough hobby that the company owner can come on here and set things straight personally.

-1
#71 5 years ago
Quoted from davep999888:

Set up my WOZ last night. We played a few games last night and a couple already this morning and no issues out of the box other than a scratched up topper. The entire family is enjoying the game, and, despite being nervous because of all of the talk, what a lot of fun it has been so far! Was starting to get cold feet but so glad to go through with it! Still early but no apparent issues with my machine described in this and other threads.

No issues other then a scratched up topper you call that no issues really

#72 5 years ago

What do you expect from the classless group on here? Same old BS and same old great response and service by Jack

#73 5 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

No issues other then a scratched up topper you call that no issues really

Yes, no issues, let the guy enjoy his pin

#74 5 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

No issues other then a scratched up topper you call that no issues really

Based on the whirlwind of threads about this machine, I was concerned that it may not work! A scratched topper didn't stop us from playing!

#75 5 years ago

The problem is solved...can we close this bullshit thread now?

#76 5 years ago

LOL, all due respect when I bought my first game, a Twilight Zone, I was like a lost puppy dog when something went wrong. Now, I've done full restores. It sounds like two things to me, one the owner is early in the hobby and going through a learing curve we all overcome eventually (I guess as Jack says on our own or with our checkbooks).

The other dimension here seems to be that it's more likely JJP will have more issues on the first game than hopefully anytime in their history - which someone early in the thread called 'early adopter'. Those issues JJP should have financially prepared for - not their clients. This is retail or business to consumer....not custom ordered manufacturing equipment - quality assurance needs to catch certain things - and problems related to design flaws are the resonsibility of JJP - that's just the way the world works.

Glad to see JJP is taking care of it and guessing after the customer becomes more accustomed to and addicted to the hobby he'll grow to appreciate JJP's decision and end up a customer for life.

#77 5 years ago

Close this one, problem solved, and the other BS one, asked and answered

#78 5 years ago
Quoted from RWH:

The above comment is the typical response a newbie can expect when it comes to seeking direction concerning a NIB WOZ. No direction, no real interest in helping, just a bunch of idiotic comments....yeah we give them so many reasons to join our love of the silverball.

Because of what I do in pinball, which includes playing on location regularly (over 40 years now), operating games, participating in a league, running a pin repair business, bringing games to shows and tournaments and competing in tournaments, I get asked my opinion a lot about games folks are thinking about buying for their first home game. Really, I get the question a lot. I don't mind though and I'm always willing to help if I can. The first thing I consider before making any suggestions is the technical ability of the person asking about the game. I ask them if they can solder and use a DMM. If they say no to both, I typically recommend only a new (or newish) Stern. Problems will still pop up on those, but not nearly as often as say a 20+ year old TZ.

In the case of the original poster's friend, I probably would've also recommended a new Stern. I wouldn't have stopped there though. I would've also pointed out that there are currently three OZ's on location nearby and probably offered to meet him at one of the places to play. This advise doesn't help my repair business btw. Am I doing it wrong?

Home buyers will never bring this hobby back to the prominence it once had. I'm out there recruiting new location players regularly. If you think you're doing more to promote the hobby than I am, I'd love to hear about it.

#79 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

Out "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.
If this OP really spoke to his "friend" he would know that we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.
I can guarantee that anything we build will break again. I've said it for all 39 years that I'm in this industry; "If it's not broke, it's not pinball" - so - should it have issues out of the box, no, could it, yes.
We are building pinball for about a year. Ford built millions of cars forever and they still get recalls.....
To own pinball, you need to learn to fix pinball, either with your hands or your checkbook. Groups like this one educate newbies. Know your limitations. The buyer of this game is not wrong. He deserves a game that is right, I agree, so....even though in sum total his issues are minor and we could take care of all of them within an hour on site, we will swap the whole game, in person, with our people taking care of it....done.
I've spoken to your "friend" more than once, including yesterday and have exchanged several e mails directly.
That's what WE do. That's how WE built the company. Sorry, shit happens and it will continue to happen even when we build 100,000 games, there will be something, Hey, it's Pinball.....

Some of your posts leave me shaking my head, this isn't one of them. Great reply.

#80 5 years ago
Quoted from hank35:

This statement is utter bullsh!t.
Yes, some things may have to be tweaked, but games not working out of the box? Give me a break.
I own multiple cars, but that doesn't mean I can fix them when they break. Why is pinball different?

car analogies. Ok - you realize that before you take delivery of your new car that the local dealership spends a couple hours going over it in detail sorting out any issues missed by the factory right? Ya, its true - really it is. They don't roll em off the f'ing semi with the plastic still on them and sell em directly to the customer. If a customer requested that they might get it, but said customer would need to be aware they'd probably have to invest some time getting their new car truly ready for the road. If you opted to do that, don't expect Ford to come to your home with a replacement car or even to show up to fix the damn thing for you. So excellent for Jack to step up to the plate and see this through.

So a buyer has things to consider when buying a car. If they are not confident in doing any type of service maintenance and ford is the only dealership within reasonable distance then if they're smart they're buying a ford and not a chev. Why set oneself up for failure.

So if you're a 'newb' to pinball, be prepared to have to make adjustments to your NIB pinball. If you're not comfortable doing this I see two choices - find a good local dealer (or tech/service guy) to deliver it and set it up and work the kinks out OR don't buy one in the first place.

16
#81 5 years ago

I was just made aware of this post by the OP last night as I was heading out to work, and need to put an end to this at this point.

I am the owner of the machine in question. My original email to my pinball friend, KPM, was passionate and frustrated. The wait for the WOZ, getting it just hours before hosting a huge party for my kids, and having issues out of the box all were visibly evident in my email, as I have been discussing this for months and months with the OP. The resolution that JJP has provided me was not known to the OP when he made his post. Sorry KPM, and JJP.

I do take issue with the hard stance people take on forums, under the blanket of anonymity. Everyone has an opinion when they speak from behind a computer screen.

Let me first address my technical abilities. Do not get confused that I've owned pins for only a year and a half or so with my ability or inability to diagnose and fix them. I own a solid 20 year old DMD, and have gone through it to make it what it is today as far as it's playability. That includes rebuilding what needs rebuilt, finding broken or loose wires, tracking down any sort of problem, etc. Remember there is a learning curve, and we all learn things as we go. Baptism by fire. I am not going to run through my "qualifications" or technical background for anyone, but I've fixed everything that has needed any attention, with maybe some requests for info, etc. But who hasn't. So, use the term NOOB if you need to. That's fine. I take no offense to it. But do not think that someone that is new to anything is without the intelligence to logically think through and diagnose issues or repair them. It's like anything else, you need to learn and you do that by working on the stuff.

As for me not wanting to raise the playfield, seriously? If you think I'm hesitant to get inside the machine, well that's a wrong assumption. Why would I want to cycle the playfield up and down any more than I have to, scuffing it up unnecessarily, etc. There is a contact issue there. Just keep opening the door on your car after you determine that it's rubbing on the fender. Makes sense, doesn't it? As it turns out, Jack told me to use the game, work on lights, etc, and not to worry about it. But would you go out of your way to potentially damage something?

Now, the issues involved with this machine are mine, not this forum's, so I did not feel compelled to post anything myself. At this point, what I will say is that JJP has been extremely quick to respond to my issues. Everyone I have spoken to, Lloyd, Ken, and Jack have spent time on the phone with me, and have been very responsive, just as soon as I made them aware of it. I had posted my lighting issue on another forum, and Lloyd was in contact with me over the weekend, on his own time. Very helpful, and quite unexpected, considering I got the pin on a Friday. I spoke with Jack three times about this. Jack told me directly that it all stops with him, and things will be made right. So, with resolution in sight, this should be behind me very soon. So by the following Thursday, JJP came up with a resolution for my issues.

Beyond the issues, the game is quite beautiful. You can tell that it is built very sturdily. The technology involved is different than what you might expect if you own older games. There is a different architecture to the lighting, etc. So, you need to learn it.

All I can say is that JJP has been very helpful with this, to this point, and I look forward to playing the game at its full potential. So, please just give it a rest. I think unless you have a stake in the game, there's really nothing to be gained by trash talk, either against me and my technical abilities, JJP, or a person's decision to buy and enjoy whatever they choose.

I do not post on forums because they generally piss me off. However, in this case, I felt compelled. Once the game is in my home and I've had use of it for some time, I certainly will provide my honest opinion of it.

I'm done.

#82 5 years ago

In the words of funhouse 'Rudy' Hey, Its only pinball. ............. Shit happens , stuff breaks. Give JJP some leeway with the first game. EVERYTHING IS NEW.

Just like the Honda civic when it first came out. They were a nightmare! But the dealer would stand behind every customer and make it all 'right' with them immediately no questions asked.
Just as Jersey Jack has done with his customers. If he keeps up this record of looking after his customers and improving their product like honda did/does he will prosper and pinball will have a strong and healthy future and as a result we win because we get many killer new games with a rock solid manufacturer who stands by the finished product.

#83 5 years ago
Quoted from jsrfo:

All I can say is that JJP has been very helpful with this, to this point, and I look forward to playing the game at its full potential. So, please just give it a rest. I think unless you have a stake in the game, there's really nothing to be gained by trash talk, either against me and my technical abilities, JJP, or a person's decision to buy and enjoy whatever they choose. I'm done.

There was never any question that Jack would take care of you. By all accounts, yes, there have been problems, but his customer service has a solid rep that even the nay-sayers cannot deny. Glad you got it all worked out and hope you are soon enjoying your game.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

we are actually delivering another new game to his "friend" and picking up the other one.

Now that's how customer service should work. Kudos

#84 5 years ago

And Jack, if you are still on here, you took my quote out of context - I was replying to a comment that a "noob" has no business buying one of your games. I may have bailed on my game due to the wait, but that has nothing to do with your build quality, or customer service, which by all accounts has been exceptional. And of course, "noobs" should be encouraged to by your (or any) pins. More people in the hobby is a good thing, let's not scare people away.

Quoted from phishrace:

Yes, it is. A noob shouldn't buy the first game from a new manufacturer.

Quoted from zippydapinhead:

Then Jack shouldn't have set the noob as his target market.

Quoted from JerseyJack:

Our "Target Market" is first time players, NOT first time owners. That's OK too.

The OP's problem has been taken care of in the best possible way and that should be the end of it.
Vote to close thread.

#85 5 years ago

First off, I want to let you all know that JJP has totally taken care of this situation. Second off I apologize to all parties involved including my Friend and JJP as I don't own the game, these weren't my problems and I had / have no business talking about a Company or Pinball machine that I do not own. Again My sincerest apologizes to "J", JJP, WOZ and anyone on this thread I may have offended. That will be all on this matter from me as OP.

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

What's up, OP? Any updates, OP?

torpedo.jpg 5 KB

Sorry, I had family stuff yesterday and couldn't get near a computer and post. But yes there are updates. I have had a chance to speak with both "J" the owner of the pin and Jack himself. "J" did explain personally in this thread so you can get the other side of the story from him. There was a resolution in the works that he didn't tell me about, which would have eliminated me posting this. As I said I had the pleasure with communicating with Jack and was blown away by his answers, response and feel that he has again shown that he is in this for the long haul, WILL and DOES take complete and total care of his customers. I was wrong for starting this topic without having all the information, so I will play the fool here. I have already apologized to everyone for starting this thread and will do so again. I feel this thread should be closed as all of MY concerns as OP have been answered to great satisfaction.

#87 5 years ago

PM a moderator and ask for it to be closed.

#88 5 years ago

Thumbs up from me. Kudos, KPorter.

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