Kind of like being married and having kids. Seems like a good idea at the time, and then you find out how much f-ing work it actually entails.

(DISCLAIMER: My wife is awesome. I'm the one that's a lot of work...)

I've got a large pool. I just don't want to F with it. I pay somebody to clean it, filters, etc.

I go in stretches where I love working on/modding my pins, other times I F ing hate it!

JJP has GREAT, not good, but GREAT customer service. They bend over backwards. Lloyd, Alex, Jack, Jen and crew do a FANTASTIC job.

There are people in the world that no matter what you do, you'll never be able to make them happy

Hell no! I thought this was the Ministry of Squabbles!

Bottom line is that if no wants to sell direct to customers, he needs to have service people available to fix problems that occur during the warranty period. It's as simple as that. If it were me I would be livid and iniate a charge back. Jjp should take this as a prime example to only sell through distributors or operators.

Actually this is not true. My ($9000 at the time) jvc rs-35 went out first couple months and it was sent to jvc under warranty - at my cost. I'm sure jjp would have gladly fixed the game if sent back.

Sorry to hear that. I must be more of a PITA than you when it comes to high ticket items. I have refused requests like JVC made of you and the manufacturer or dealer has made it right.

They do only sell through distributors.

Im sure it would be different if I had a home theater company locally come install the system. Then I'd be contacting them to come fix it. But I bought the projector online and installed it. It makes sense that I would send it back in for warranty. If I refused to do anything then I guess I would either have no working projector or a few weeks might go by while I wait for someone to come take it and mail it to jvc for me.

I purchased WOZECLE and got one of the early ones. I think I had to replace 7 small boards, two large boards, fix the castle doors, etc. That said, I found JJP's customer service to be one of the best I have ever experienced. LLoyd and Alex were absolutely fantastic. I was an absolute novice at that point, and they were more than willing to work with me to resolve any issues or concerns I had. Parts were immediately dispatched, along with spares to keep me going till the LED issues were resolved. Had it not been for their superior customer service, I would have been very disappointed in the performance of this new machine, but their genuine desire to make things right kept me on board while they worked thru the issues. I will not hesitate about future purchases of JJP's products because of their superior customer service.

Good responses from JJP, so this is purely constructive...

It's 2014, and it's absurdly cheap and easy to create/distribute high quality videos or tutorials on how to do basic troubleshooting/repairs/part replacement. I think a large number of "non pinheads" would be ok with digging in and doing a repair if their hand was held the whole way. You could even send them a $20 tool kit with a soldering iron/nut drivers along with the part.

I'd imagine most of the repairs/issues are similar or identical. It really wouldn't take as much time as it might seem to send a customer a video of how to do their exact repair once the problem is identified.

If you don't want to support pinball newbies, don't "advertise" on Facebook.

My mom got a FB post about the "new" Wizard of Oz pinball machine.

Full disclosure: My mother doesn't know how to solder.

Not true, they sell direct. Through their website and via phone.

I doubt the people that are dropping 10k on a machine that don't know anything about pins would want to even clean the game let alone soldier.

When did they start doing that?

I thought they only sold through distributors, including pinballsales.com.

Just checked, and you are correct. This must be fairly recent? Did they start doing this when they put up their new website?

Bingo!! We all buy online direct. Most of us complain about the retailers pricing. You know the pricing that includes support from set up to service..

Spare parts and advice are not sent out 'free'
You pay a little extra at the start because the manufacture knows something will break
Like the first year of 'free' service on a new car, you paid for it when you bought the car

Idk, that's how I purchased my machines. I just called them up and placed an order. So I know the phone part is true. I must be misinformed though, I thought the website was theirs. I figure if I am on JJP website and I click on order and it takes me to a page to order that it would be their page. It may be a distributor but how would that be fair to all the other distributors?

How do you know?
Have you ever asked her?
Mothers are full of surprises

It takes you to pinballsales.com The distro.

Edit, not anymore.

Yea, I just tried to order a pin on their site and it takes me to store.jerseyjackpinball.com blah blah blah .com

I can order direct online. Seems like that is something they should consider if they want to sell direct.

https://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=61

You can directly order from the JJP website. I don't think that used to be the case but I could be wrong. I thought you had to order from pinballsales.com which is a different company, but also owned by Jack.

So yes, it does look like JJP is selling direct now.

Interesting. Thats new. Wonder what up? Not bad or good just whats the change.

I just checked.

It does not send you to pinballsales.com

I agree it used to take you to pinballsales.com now that I think back. It no longer does however. I don't know when the change happened but again if they sell direct they should be the ones to stand by the games for service and parts under the warranty period.

That's new as of expo. It wasn't the case before and isn't the case with anyone here.

Why not put together a troubleshooting DVD to cover a lot of the common small issues that arise with a game, not talking major repairs, but how to remove the glass, how to work the computer system, cleaning, simple repairs that come up.. I would imagine that would reduce the amount of calls, and make the new owner familiar with what to do is certain situations.. if you do not want to send a disc, post a link to a "welcome to your new pinball machine video" You could also include instructions on how to do software updates... might reduce the phone calls into service for simple things, and also make the customer a little more knowledgeable.. it is a 8-10K product.. personally I think this would go a long way..

?

Pinball is kind of a hands on hobby, if you never intend to take off the glass, pinball ain't for you. It's kind of like fishing, if you don't want to touch the bait and put it on the hook, find another pastime. Another thing to consider is the expense that JJP would incur if they had to pay for a tech to go onsite for every little issue. For those upset by high prices, can you imagine the price increase that would drive if that cost had to be baked into their sales price? I'm not saying there is never a reason for them to support an on site tech, but 99.9% of the issues you face do not require it, and I don't want to pay for it up front.

at 10k for a pinball machine, it should work no matter who purchases it. Don't offer a warranty if your not going to assist in fixing the machine. I understand this is how most companies operate, they send you the part for you to fix, however given the current times, people don't fix anything they just return it. I don't remember the last time I fixed something from Best Buy, I just return it and get a new one. JJP needs to know that when you sell a luxury item a good portion of those people buying it are not the ones who are going to work on it. They need to deliver a game they can support through the warranty period at the very least or don't sell direct. This is why they have distributors.

Im disappointed at your lack of creativity in this area.

"Trouble-free Pinball Mod"
(ship without pinballs).

I have gotten responses from jack that I wont share but are not the best customer service protocol. Related to the its not pinball if its not broke comment. Not something your customers want to hear who are not pinheads.

This issue is not a JJP issue, it's the way the entire industry works as far as I know. When my new STLE broke, they sent the replacement parts, not a tech. I don't see any of the new producers changing the model either. One thing history has proven true, is that all pinball machines break, regardless of the manufacturer. Without owner participation in the repair process, the cost increase it would drive would cause everyone to reconsider the economics of purchasing new machines.

While it may be true that this is how the industry has always worked, the industry has changed quite a bit, so customer service practices should as well.

In the past pins were sold mostly to operators, who presumably knew at least some basic repair since it was their business. This isn't the case anymore, most pins are sold to a home environment now. The customer base took a 180 shift, but customer service did not adapt.

It did. Retailers! But no one here likes paying the mark up it costs for a building, staff and all the other costs.

I bought a new Tron remake a few years back NIB. The playfield looked as if a child on acid had tried to touch it up with sharpie, it was a nightmare. Stern sent me a new populated playfield paid for a local tech to install it and they payed to have the old pf shipped back to them. When my distributor showed Gary Stern the pictures he said Gary cringed. Just sayin ...

I know of at least 4 other instances of full playfield swaps done on Sterns dime.

I think I covered that. Playfield swaps are a little above and beyond the average, makes one wonder how they got out of the factory...

Oh yea, retailers with warranties/service plans completely fix this problem. But this is a classic pinside damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. People blast retailers here for their high prices, yet fail to realize the value they add for non pinheads until something like this happens.

So then what is the solution if the distributor is hundreds of miles away and there are no techs within a reasonable distance?

I agree that if you drop $10k on a brand new machine, you shouldn't have to spend another dime just to get it to play as promised, but there aren't a lot of easy answers here.

I sure hope Gmail isn't blocked!

If you think we don't care about the individual customer than you really don't know much about us as a company and jack as a great guy. He has personally gone to people's homes to assist them with games as have I. The customer you had me speak with made it a point to say you were trying to become the local resource for JJP in that area but it's a pretty inauspicious start if that's the case. We help everyone and base the level of help on the skill set of the customer. The customer even stated her husband wants to learn to solder and I could teach him remotely and actually seemed eager to learn. That's an extremely positive sign. Aside from this edge case I don't see many if any who share your sentiment.

What I have learned: Public outrage must precede any semblance of proper customer service.

And even then, I have to pay to ship back your defective parts? RIP NIB for this guy.

Basically, if you're going to sell to homes, you need to offer in-home service and treat the machine like a standard consumer appliance, like a dishwasher.

Charge more for it! No one is arguing that. But you have to have the option available otherwise stuff like this happens. Don't expect customers to know to google pinball repair.

The OP has provided free service for you company
You should be thanking him , and kissing his arse

There were plenty of populated playfield swaps back in the Williams day too.

That is something that the distributor needs to cover. If you can take someone's money from a few hundred miles away, you can service that person as well. Things that come up such as this instance, I would hope that JJP would reimburse the distributor for the service call.

I know you guys care about the customer. I have no problem getting things covered with llyod. However given your new direct sales to customers, this won't be the only instance where you have non-pinheads coming direct to you for help. I am sure this instance is not going to be the norm however the OP clearly was put in the middle of the situation.

I almost hate to bring this up, but I bought both WOZ and STLE from one of the largest distributors in the east. When I experienced issues with both, I was directed to the manufacturers for support in both cases. They did nothing. JJP and Stern took care of the issues.