(Topic ID: 107846)

JJP has very poor customer service for non pinheads


By vidgameseller

5 years ago



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There are 318 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 7.
#101 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

My business partner lives across the country from me. He would probably buy a pinball from me talking about it all the time, but he has NO INTEREST in pulling the glass to do anything. So I've advised him to not buy one. All I'm saying is that there is probably a decent amount of people like that out there.
Reminds me of salt water aquariums. Lots of people like them, but most don't want to do the work, so they go on a service agreement with someone who comes once a week to maintain it. Obviously they pay for that service.

Kind of like being married and having kids. Seems like a good idea at the time, and then you find out how much f-ing work it actually entails.

(DISCLAIMER: My wife is awesome. I'm the one that's a lot of work...)

14
#102 5 years ago

I've got a large pool. I just don't want to F with it. I pay somebody to clean it, filters, etc.

I go in stretches where I love working on/modding my pins, other times I F ing hate it!

JJP has GREAT, not good, but GREAT customer service. They bend over backwards. Lloyd, Alex, Jack, Jen and crew do a FANTASTIC job.

There are people in the world that no matter what you do, you'll never be able to make them happy

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

- Thanks for that as I thought this quote was priceless.

Would you like to buy an argument?

Hell no! I thought this was the Ministry of Squabbles!

#104 5 years ago

Bottom line is that if no wants to sell direct to customers, he needs to have service people available to fix problems that occur during the warranty period. It's as simple as that. If it were me I would be livid and iniate a charge back. Jjp should take this as a prime example to only sell through distributors or operators.

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I guarantee you that if you have a TV, stereo or projector that costs anywhere near $9k, someone is coming to your house if it needs to be fixed.
If you are talking disposable consumer electronics (probably under $1k), I agree with you. But that's not a fair comparison to a new pinball machine (which is a commercial not consumer product).

Actually this is not true. My ($9000 at the time) jvc rs-35 went out first couple months and it was sent to jvc under warranty - at my cost. I'm sure jjp would have gladly fixed the game if sent back.

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Actually this is not true. My ($9000 at the time) jvc rs-35 went out first couple months and it was sent to jvc under warranty - at my cost. I'm sure jjp would have gladly fixed the game if sent back.

Sorry to hear that. I must be more of a PITA than you when it comes to high ticket items. I have refused requests like JVC made of you and the manufacturer or dealer has made it right.

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Jjp should take this as a prime example to only sell through distributors or operators.

They do only sell through distributors.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Sorry to hear that. I must be more of a PITA than you when it comes to high ticket items. I have refused requests like JVC made of you and the manufacturer or dealer has made it right.

Im sure it would be different if I had a home theater company locally come install the system. Then I'd be contacting them to come fix it. But I bought the projector online and installed it. It makes sense that I would send it back in for warranty. If I refused to do anything then I guess I would either have no working projector or a few weeks might go by while I wait for someone to come take it and mail it to jvc for me.

#109 5 years ago

I purchased WOZECLE and got one of the early ones. I think I had to replace 7 small boards, two large boards, fix the castle doors, etc. That said, I found JJP's customer service to be one of the best I have ever experienced. LLoyd and Alex were absolutely fantastic. I was an absolute novice at that point, and they were more than willing to work with me to resolve any issues or concerns I had. Parts were immediately dispatched, along with spares to keep me going till the LED issues were resolved. Had it not been for their superior customer service, I would have been very disappointed in the performance of this new machine, but their genuine desire to make things right kept me on board while they worked thru the issues. I will not hesitate about future purchases of JJP's products because of their superior customer service.

#110 5 years ago

Good responses from JJP, so this is purely constructive...

It's 2014, and it's absurdly cheap and easy to create/distribute high quality videos or tutorials on how to do basic troubleshooting/repairs/part replacement. I think a large number of "non pinheads" would be ok with digging in and doing a repair if their hand was held the whole way. You could even send them a $20 tool kit with a soldering iron/nut drivers along with the part.

I'd imagine most of the repairs/issues are similar or identical. It really wouldn't take as much time as it might seem to send a customer a video of how to do their exact repair once the problem is identified.

-2
#111 5 years ago

If you don't want to support pinball newbies, don't "advertise" on Facebook.

My mom got a FB post about the "new" Wizard of Oz pinball machine.

Full disclosure: My mother doesn't know how to solder.

#112 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

They do only sell through distributors.

Not true, they sell direct. Through their website and via phone.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Good responses from JJP, so this is purely constructive...
It's 2014, and it's absurdly cheap and easy to create/distribute high quality videos or tutorials on how to do basic troubleshooting/repairs/part replacement. I think a large number of "non pinheads" would be ok with digging in and doing a repair if their hand was held the whole way. You could even send them a $20 tool kit with a soldering iron/nut drivers along with the part.
I'd imagine most of the repairs/issues are similar or identical. It really wouldn't take as much time as it might seem to send a customer a video of how to do their exact repair once the problem is identified.

I doubt the people that are dropping 10k on a machine that don't know anything about pins would want to even clean the game let alone soldier.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Not true, they sell direct. Through their website and via phone.

When did they start doing that?

I thought they only sold through distributors, including pinballsales.com.

Just checked, and you are correct. This must be fairly recent? Did they start doing this when they put up their new website?

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Im sure it would be different if I had a home theater company locally come install the system. Then I'd be contacting them to come fix it. But I bought the projector online and installed it.

Bingo!! We all buy online direct. Most of us complain about the retailers pricing. You know the pricing that includes support from set up to service..

#116 5 years ago

Spare parts and advice are not sent out 'free'
You pay a little extra at the start because the manufacture knows something will break
Like the first year of 'free' service on a new car, you paid for it when you bought the car

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

When did they start doing that?
I thought they only sold through distributors, including pinballsales.com

Idk, that's how I purchased my machines. I just called them up and placed an order. So I know the phone part is true. I must be misinformed though, I thought the website was theirs. I figure if I am on JJP website and I click on order and it takes me to a page to order that it would be their page. It may be a distributor but how would that be fair to all the other distributors?

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from MrDo:

If you don't want to support pinball newbies, don't "advertise" on Facebook.
My mom got a FB post about the "new" Wizard of Oz pinball machine.
Full disclosure: My mother doesn't know how to solder.

How do you know?
Have you ever asked her?
Mothers are full of surprises

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I figure if I am on JJP website and I click on order and it takes me to a page to order t

It takes you to pinballsales.com The distro.

Edit, not anymore.

#120 5 years ago

Yea, I just tried to order a pin on their site and it takes me to store.jerseyjackpinball.com blah blah blah .com

I can order direct online. Seems like that is something they should consider if they want to sell direct.

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Idk, that's how I purchased my machines. I just called them up and placed an order. So I know the phone part is true. I must be misinformed though, I thought the website was theirs. I figure if I am on JJP website and I click on order and it takes me to a page to order that it would be their page. It may be a distributor but how would that be fair to all the other distributors?

You can directly order from the JJP website. I don't think that used to be the case but I could be wrong. I thought you had to order from pinballsales.com which is a different company, but also owned by Jack.

So yes, it does look like JJP is selling direct now.

#123 5 years ago

Interesting. Thats new. Wonder what up? Not bad or good just whats the change.

#124 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It takes you to pinballsales.com The distro.

I just checked.

It does not send you to pinballsales.com

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You can directly order from the JJP website. I don't think that used to be the case but I could be wrong. I thought you had to order from pinballsales.com which is a different company, but also owned by Jack.
So yes, it does look like JJP is selling direct now.

I agree it used to take you to pinballsales.com now that I think back. It no longer does however. I don't know when the change happened but again if they sell direct they should be the ones to stand by the games for service and parts under the warranty period.

#126 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You can directly order from the JJP website. I don't think that used to be the case but I could be wrong. I thought you had to order from pinballsales.com which is a different company, but also owned by Jack.
So yes, it does look like JJP is selling direct now.

That's new as of expo. It wasn't the case before and isn't the case with anyone here.

#127 5 years ago

Why not put together a troubleshooting DVD to cover a lot of the common small issues that arise with a game, not talking major repairs, but how to remove the glass, how to work the computer system, cleaning, simple repairs that come up.. I would imagine that would reduce the amount of calls, and make the new owner familiar with what to do is certain situations.. if you do not want to send a disc, post a link to a "welcome to your new pinball machine video" You could also include instructions on how to do software updates... might reduce the phone calls into service for simple things, and also make the customer a little more knowledgeable.. it is a 8-10K product.. personally I think this would go a long way..

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

isn't the case with anyone here.

?

#129 5 years ago

Pinball is kind of a hands on hobby, if you never intend to take off the glass, pinball ain't for you. It's kind of like fishing, if you don't want to touch the bait and put it on the hook, find another pastime. Another thing to consider is the expense that JJP would incur if they had to pay for a tech to go onsite for every little issue. For those upset by high prices, can you imagine the price increase that would drive if that cost had to be baked into their sales price? I'm not saying there is never a reason for them to support an on site tech, but 99.9% of the issues you face do not require it, and I don't want to pay for it up front.

#130 5 years ago
Quoted from Imeh:

Pinball is kind of a hands on hobby, if you never intend to take off the glass, pinball ain't for you. It's kind of like fishing, if you don't want to touch the bait and put it on the hook, find another pastime. Another thing to consider is the expense that JJP would incur if they had to pay for a tech to go onsite for every little issue. For those upset by high prices, can you imagine the price increase that would drive if that cost had to be baked into their sales price? I'm not saying there is never a reason for them to support an on site tech, but 99.9% of the issues you face do not require it, and I don't want to pay for it up front.

at 10k for a pinball machine, it should work no matter who purchases it. Don't offer a warranty if your not going to assist in fixing the machine. I understand this is how most companies operate, they send you the part for you to fix, however given the current times, people don't fix anything they just return it. I don't remember the last time I fixed something from Best Buy, I just return it and get a new one. JJP needs to know that when you sell a luxury item a good portion of those people buying it are not the ones who are going to work on it. They need to deliver a game they can support through the warranty period at the very least or don't sell direct. This is why they have distributors.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

"If it ain't broke, it ain't Pinball"
We cannot make an Unbreakable pinball machine for a million dollars. .

Im disappointed at your lack of creativity in this area.

"Trouble-free Pinball Mod"
(ship without pinballs).

#132 5 years ago

I have gotten responses from jack that I wont share but are not the best customer service protocol. Related to the its not pinball if its not broke comment. Not something your customers want to hear who are not pinheads.

24
#133 5 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

"If it ain't broke, it ain't Pinball"
We cannot make an Unbreakable pinball machine for a million dollars.
I own a service company that makes money because things break. That's why there are parts companies too.
I built a company based on customer service. We have provided free parts and countless free service calls all over the world.
Our warranty is the broadest most liberal and longest in the industry. I'm even shipping parts for free on games out of warranty.
I've swapped whole games, playfields, you name it. We have done service calls for free for operators on location. So newbies are not the only ones who don't know how to fix pinball.
I've even been known to show up at someone's home or location to service their game.
A toll free number listed in the manual, on line even on shirts rings on my cell phone that I answer.
There will always be people who fix things with check books.
The customer has spoken to our people and everything is happiness going forward.
We have hired an industry service expert Frank Becker who is getting up to date for the last month at JJP to run the service and support division
We strive to get better every day and we will. It's pinball. I can guarantee it will break!
Thanks.

I keep thinking about this post and just got to say, Bu#$ S*(&. I really dont see how you are even getting thumbs up on this Jack. These comments from you are strictly the salesman in you. Not coming from someone that actually cares about the individual customer. In my opionion, which since im not paying you anything for so i doubt you care. The only comments that you should have made were things like.

I dropped the ball on this after saying i was going to call. Although Alex has called and it looks like it will be rectified, Im still going to call them directly so that they know we do appreciatte our customer.

and

I know that pinball machines WILL break, its going to happen. But a game not working out of the box is just not acceptable, We have to do better than that.

for your statement how you send parts all over the world and even free service calls. Great, let me get you a cookie. Because i think that if anyone deserves a free service call, it should be a customer that doesnt even get one game played on their machine because it was broken. Although they did get a free service call, from me, and im not the one that made thousands off of them.

#134 5 years ago

This issue is not a JJP issue, it's the way the entire industry works as far as I know. When my new STLE broke, they sent the replacement parts, not a tech. I don't see any of the new producers changing the model either. One thing history has proven true, is that all pinball machines break, regardless of the manufacturer. Without owner participation in the repair process, the cost increase it would drive would cause everyone to reconsider the economics of purchasing new machines.

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from Imeh:

This issue is not a JJP issue, it's the way the entire industry works as far as I know. When my new STLE broke, they sent the replacement parts, not a tech. I don't see any of the new producers changing the model either.

While it may be true that this is how the industry has always worked, the industry has changed quite a bit, so customer service practices should as well.

In the past pins were sold mostly to operators, who presumably knew at least some basic repair since it was their business. This isn't the case anymore, most pins are sold to a home environment now. The customer base took a 180 shift, but customer service did not adapt.

#136 5 years ago
Quoted from asay:

In the past pins were sold mostly to operators, who presumably knew at least some basic repair since it was their business. This isn't the case anymore, most pins are sold to a home environment now. The customer base took a 180 shift, but customer service did not adapt.

It did. Retailers! But no one here likes paying the mark up it costs for a building, staff and all the other costs.

#137 5 years ago

I bought a new Tron remake a few years back NIB. The playfield looked as if a child on acid had tried to touch it up with sharpie, it was a nightmare. Stern sent me a new populated playfield paid for a local tech to install it and they payed to have the old pf shipped back to them. When my distributor showed Gary Stern the pictures he said Gary cringed. Just sayin ...

#138 5 years ago
Quoted from vtec16:

I bought a new Tron remake a few years back NIB. The playfield looked as if a child on acid had tried to touch it up with sharpie, it was a nightmare. Stern sent me a new populated playfield paid for a local tech to install it and they payed to have the old pf shipped back to them. When my distributor showed Gary Stern the pictures he said Gary cringed. Just sayin ...

I know of at least 4 other instances of full playfield swaps done on Sterns dime.

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from Imeh:

I'm not saying there is never a reason for them to support an on site tech, but 99.9% of the issues you face do not require it, and I don't want to pay for it up front.

I think I covered that. Playfield swaps are a little above and beyond the average, makes one wonder how they got out of the factory...

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It did. Retailers! But no one here like paying the mark up it costs for a building, staff and all the other costs.

Oh yea, retailers with warranties/service plans completely fix this problem. But this is a classic pinside damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. People blast retailers here for their high prices, yet fail to realize the value they add for non pinheads until something like this happens.

#141 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I doubt the people that are dropping 10k on a machine that don't know anything about pins would want to even clean the game let alone soldier.

So then what is the solution if the distributor is hundreds of miles away and there are no techs within a reasonable distance?

I agree that if you drop $10k on a brand new machine, you shouldn't have to spend another dime just to get it to play as promised, but there aren't a lot of easy answers here.

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

For all we know, your ISP could be blocked by their email server.

I sure hope Gmail isn't blocked!

-4
#143 5 years ago
Quoted from vidgameseller:

I keep thinking about this post and just got to say, Bu#$ S*(&. I really dont see how you are even getting thumbs up on this Jack. These comments from you are strictly the salesman in you. Not coming from someone that actually cares about the individual customer. In my opionion, which since im not paying you anything for so i doubt you care. The only comments that you should have made were things like.
I dropped the ball on this after saying i was going to call. Although Alex has called and it looks like it will be rectified, Im still going to call them directly so that they know we do appreciatte our customer.
and
I know that pinball machines WILL break, its going to happen. But a game not working out of the box is just not acceptable, We have to do better than that.
for your statement how you send parts all over the world and even free service calls. Great, let me get you a cookie. Because i think that if anyone deserves a free service call, it should be a customer that doesnt even get one game played on their machine because it was broken. Although they did get a free service call, from me, and im not the one that made thousands off of them.

If you think we don't care about the individual customer than you really don't know much about us as a company and jack as a great guy. He has personally gone to people's homes to assist them with games as have I. The customer you had me speak with made it a point to say you were trying to become the local resource for JJP in that area but it's a pretty inauspicious start if that's the case. We help everyone and base the level of help on the skill set of the customer. The customer even stated her husband wants to learn to solder and I could teach him remotely and actually seemed eager to learn. That's an extremely positive sign. Aside from this edge case I don't see many if any who share your sentiment.

#144 5 years ago

What I have learned: Public outrage must precede any semblance of proper customer service.

And even then, I have to pay to ship back your defective parts? RIP NIB for this guy.

#145 5 years ago

Basically, if you're going to sell to homes, you need to offer in-home service and treat the machine like a standard consumer appliance, like a dishwasher.

Charge more for it! No one is arguing that. But you have to have the option available otherwise stuff like this happens. Don't expect customers to know to google pinball repair.

11
#146 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

If you think we don't care about the individual customer than you really don't know much about us as a company and jack as a great guy. He has personally gone to people's homes to assist them with games as have I. The customer you had me speak with made it a point to say you were trying to become the local resource for JJP in that area but it's a pretty inauspicious start if that's the case. We help everyone and base the level of help on the skill set of the customer. The customer even stated her husband wants to learn to solder and I could teach him remotely and actually seemed eager to learn. That's an extremely positive sign. Aside from this edge case I don't see many if any who share your sentiment.

The OP has provided free service for you company
You should be thanking him , and kissing his arse

#147 5 years ago
Quoted from Imeh:

Playfield swaps are a little above and beyond the average, makes one wonder how they got out of the factory...

There were plenty of populated playfield swaps back in the Williams day too.

#148 5 years ago
Quoted from asay:

So then what is the solution if the distributor is hundreds of miles away and there are no techs within a reasonable distance?
I agree that if you drop $10k on a brand new machine, you shouldn't have to spend another dime just to get it to play as promised, but there aren't a lot of easy answers here.

That is something that the distributor needs to cover. If you can take someone's money from a few hundred miles away, you can service that person as well. Things that come up such as this instance, I would hope that JJP would reimburse the distributor for the service call.

#149 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

If you think we don't care about the individual customer than you really don't know much about us as a company and jack as a great guy. He has personally gone to people's homes to assist them with games as have I. The customer you had me speak with made it a point to say you were trying to become the local resource for JJP in that area but it's a pretty inauspicious start if that's the case. We help everyone and base the level of help on the skill set of the customer. The customer even stated her husband wants to learn to solder and I could teach him remotely and actually seemed eager to learn. That's an extremely positive sign. Aside from this edge case I don't see many if any who share your sentiment.

I know you guys care about the customer. I have no problem getting things covered with llyod. However given your new direct sales to customers, this won't be the only instance where you have non-pinheads coming direct to you for help. I am sure this instance is not going to be the norm however the OP clearly was put in the middle of the situation.

#150 5 years ago

I almost hate to bring this up, but I bought both WOZ and STLE from one of the largest distributors in the east. When I experienced issues with both, I was directed to the manufacturers for support in both cases. They did nothing. JJP and Stern took care of the issues.

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