Remember, this is a newly delivered and I assume produced machine. The coils are now soldered in. More than likely a coil is acting intermittent and so someone in the Service department at the plant figured a coil needs replacing so they are sending it out. The owner makes thousands of $$ per hour with his hands so we shouldn't expect him to risk damaging those hands with a 750°F tool in his hands

Stern prefers initial contact with a phone call. The "pre-call worksheet" idea does not work well with pinball machines.

For all we know, your ISP could be blocked by their email server.

Sorry guys, if you pay 10k after tax earned dollars for a NIB anything and it doesn't work out of the box, tech has issues fixing it and it continues to give you problems you should be able to ask for a fracking refund and get it ASAP. Anything less from a company charging that much for a product is bullshit customer service.

Have pride in your product, excellent quality control processes in place and speedy after sale support and customers won't have any reason to complain. Come on people, we invented customer service for Pete's sake!

As I suspected it was a leaf switch. Of the prongs on the leaf for some reason broke off while playing so it's not making contact. I assured the buyer we will figure something out and we will. She was not a "pill" and was extremely cordial and I understood her frustration. As with all our games it will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction

I do feel sympathy for the customer, but this is a fundamental problem with most pinball sales. Unless you are fortunate enough to live close to a distributor (the nearest to me is still hundreds of miles away in the next state), you are largely on your own. I know that is a strange arrangement for an item this pricey, and I guess I have just come to accept that that is how the pinball world turns. It would be great if we had local dealerships with repair techs, but that isn't going to happen. I am not sure what a plausible and affordable alternative might be. I do tell friends who are interested in pinball not to get into it if they aren't willing to learn to make basic repairs.

On a used pinball this is true.

I don t share the same sentiment about this and a $10k machine.

Heck, I wouldn't share the same sentiment on a $4500 pinball machine. If I buy NIB and there are problems right out of the gate, someone should be at my house and making it perfect, pronto. Name one other brand new $4500 purchase that doesn't have someone coming to your house if it's not right right out of the box.

JJ needs a copy of Gary's 3 legged stool speech.

QFT, This.

I can't believe I've read dozens of thread-wrecks featuring people arguing about the prices of new vs/ used titles; degrees of "shopping"; the value of work and value-adds; Choggarding; and the value proposition of buying a "machine in a price range implying some TLC required, vs. $X more for one I don't have to touch..." ...and people arguing the price of a used MM vs a new MMr...

...and yet it is suggested that a $10K drop on a brand-new machine should come with expected frustration and on-the-job training?

Sure, a willingness to learn and fix things yourself can pay dividends: You buy a brand-new car or other similarly complex machine, and if something goes wrong, if you can fix it yourself you're spared the hassle of phone calls and dealers and loaners and timing and whatnot. OTOH, you are absolutely entitled to fair, full, and proper resolution on their time and dollar - and if someone dared tell you otherwise, you'd pitch a fit.

If anyone has $10K to drop on some "free hassles", I will glady provide you some! Heck, I'll only charge you $8K! My hassles are a better value!

That said, snafus happen in all walks of business. It sounds like people are trying to do the right thing in this situation, and that is commendable.

Yeah, that seems to be the industry norm. I had multiple Aux Boards fail on my X-Men and had to pay shipping back to Stern.

Bolstering customer service doesn't have to mean footing the bill for repair techs to visit homes.

By setting expectations with buyers, they could even turn the repair aspect of pinball ownership into a very satisfying DIY experience.

Just brainstorming, but envision the "Stern Home Ownership Program." Offered to any home customer that buys a NIB pin or even as a bonus reserved for LE customers. You receive some form of pinball repair basics book, a $25 gift certificate to Pinball Life, and a list of your local distributors/techs that you can pay to repair your game.

Honda is very good at this, they give basic maintenance courses to new owners, even used cars. Teach people how to check fuses, where to put the oil, how to change windshield wipers, check tire pressure etc. This could easily be done with pinball via a video that comes with the machine. You can't make them watch it, but you could certainly point them to it during a service phone call for reference.

Being in customer service, it's always easy for someone to say how it should be when they aren't in customer service and that's all I'll say.

The question is where do you cut the umbilical on customer's like this. The game is a coin-op machine made for routes where a service person regularly attends to the game.
This type of customer will never be happy with a pinball machine unless they decide to learn and get their hands dirty, or have a regular technician scheduled to come to service the game monthly.

I know Stern has several videos, showing how to setup the machine, update the software, etc.

Does JJP do the same thing? (Full disclosure: I never bought WOZ or TH, so I had no need to look)

This is why I find Todd Tuckey's videos so enjoyable to watch, he is always pointing out quirks in some of the games and how to fix it.

Give them exactly what they want.

Following the same Pro, Premium, LE tiered model, give people options for levels of support.

- If you are a DIY'er, join the free "Home Ownership Program".
- If you need more guidance, but are willing to use your hands, the $299/yr. guided support program is a good choice.
- If you never want to touch the inside of your equipment, then you should purchase the $999/yr. in-home support program. This covers 1 technician visit per month and an annual cleaning.

All support plans exclude the cost of parts, except during the 1-year parts-only warranty period.

Just brainstorming, and I'm not sober, so this may be silly.

I agree.

By selling to the home market this is going to happen. The quality and reliability need to be there for all pinball manufacturers. We live in a plug and play society and pins are no exception. (unless buying used). If it breaks, someone better fix it for 8-10k. If my brand new compressor broke on my fridge, samsung would not send out a new compressor and tell me to replace it. They would send a tech. (and my fridge was 900 bucks). Pinball should be the same especially since these are 5k-10k machines.

Im sure JJP will make it right but all manufacturers need to be aware and assume that everyone buying their games has 0% experience in repairs. Otherwise, the manufacturers should not put a disclaimer on a 8-10k pin which reads "For the experienced buyer only" or "This may break so be prepared to fix it". ---doubt this would happen.

If you aren't going to support a customer in some way don't sell to them.

Wow, I like the Shane Van Boening reference that most people won't get, I thought I was one of the few still into billiards! Very nice guy btw, his grandpa lives next to my mom in Rapid City, Shane has always been really good with my mom....

I hear that pinballsales.com is taking pre-orders for The Hobbit.

When you start marketing to the general public, these are the types of problems you get. When B/W was selling pins, the market was to route owners and not people with gamerooms. Now you have a different market and a different price point, you are going to have more and more of these type of problems popping up.

People that are paying 10k for machine that might get 500 plays in a gameroom want a turn key product. This is the market that the LE models were created for. Gary makes it a leg on his 3 legged stool when he gives a speech about who he makes pins for.

I guess the 99.999% of the general public should have known that pinball machines are the only product in the universe that sells NIB at 10k and comes with the advice, If you don't know how to fix it, you shouldn't own it. (Those repairs are not repairs the average person should know how to make.)

Won't get until they google it anyway.

There is no "technically". It's a different business than JJP. So your original post isn't accurate and thus neither was your point.

"As I suspected it was a leaf switch. Of the prongs on the leaf for some reason broke off while playing so it's not making contact. I assured the buyer we will figure something out and we will. She was not a "pill" and was extremely cordial and I understood her frustration. As with all our games it will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction"

I find it interesting that no one has yet acknowledged this and it seems clear that JJP is working hard on fixing this. They have been excellent including contacting me on weekends, late hours, and giving me information and what I've needed. I haven't had a lot of problems, but the few I've had, I couldn't have been more satisfied in how quickly and well they've helped me including Lloyd, Alex, and others.

I realize the original thread indicates some concerns with a specific situation with someone with no pin experience, unlike most Pinsiders. Challenging situation but it's clear JJP is working on it.

If you buy a brand new TV, computer, stereo, video projector... that is broken, I do not think anyone is coming to your house. You would have to return the item for an exchange.
If any pinball manufacturer was to offer in home service, they would have to pass that cost on to the consumer. That might make a $9K machine an $11K+ machine.
It does stink when an item does not work when purchased new, but the same thing happens with Sony, Panasonic and every electronics manufacturer.

Not always.

Small items? yes.
But when our 73" TV crapped out, the manufacturer sent a tech to our hone to repair (twice).

I guarantee you that if you have a TV, stereo or projector that costs anywhere near $9k, someone is coming to your house if it needs to be fixed.

If you are talking disposable consumer electronics (probably under $1k), I agree with you. But that's not a fair comparison to a new pinball machine (which is a commercial not consumer product).

Even if your $400 dishwasher breaks in the first 2 years, someone comes to fix it.

Having in-home repair does not make a $400 dishwasher a $2400 dishwasher.

- Thanks for that as I thought this quote was priceless.

Would you like to buy an argument?

I just bought a lazy-boy chair for about $1500, and paid an additional $150 for an extended service contract on it. I have young children, and was concerned about damage from them using the motor excessively or damage to the leather.

That was my option to buy that additional service. They love to sell it because it is high margin, but in this case I wanted it.

It would probably be wise for pin re-sellers to come up with their own program, explaining to the customer these are commercial products meant to go on location and serviced by professionals. There is a manufacturers warranty, but if they are not comfortable working on their machine (basically anything that involves pulling the glass) they can buy extended service for 10% of the sales price.

At least offer a solution.

Absolutely. Same here in Australia if it's a larger item they come to you not the other way around. Common sense really most of these big items come with a hidden built in warranty charge. If it craps out they fix it and if not then a little more profit on that item.

Some people don't want another "hobby". They just want a pinball machine that works.

"If it ain't broke, it ain't Pinball"

We cannot make an Unbreakable pinball machine for a million dollars.

I own a service company that makes money because things break. That's why there are parts companies too.

I built a company based on customer service. We have provided free parts and countless free service calls all over the world.

Our warranty is the broadest most liberal and longest in the industry. I'm even shipping parts for free on games out of warranty.

I've swapped whole games, playfields, you name it. We have done service calls for free for operators on location. So newbies are not the only ones who don't know how to fix pinball.

I've even been known to show up at someone's home or location to service their game.

A toll free number listed in the manual, on line even on shirts rings on my cell phone that I answer.

There will always be people who fix things with check books.

The customer has spoken to our people and everything is happiness going forward.

We have hired an industry service expert Frank Becker who is getting up to date for the last month at JJP to run the service and support division

We strive to get better every day and we will. It's pinball. I can guarantee it will break!

Thanks.

^^^

That.

I might have an unique perspective on this, being someone that doesn't currently own a machine (although I'm actively hunting for my first). As a buyer, I had to decide on budget and my willingness to accept issues that might arise should I choose to purchase a used pin. Being a "hands on" guy, I decided I would be going used since I would feel somewhat comfortable attempting a repair. If I wasn't a hands on person, I would concede that if I bought used, I may have to pay someone to perform the repair.

However, if I decided I didn't want to deal with anything like that, I would pay the price of admission and purchase new, expecting that I wouldn't have to get my hands dirty working on something under warranty.

Years ago I purchased a Visio Plasma TV that had issues right out of the box. A tech was sent to my house within 2 days of notifying Visio about the problem. He needed to return two additional times to rectify the issue, all at no charge and minimal hassle on my part. I would expect the same if I were to drop $10,000 on a pinball machine. On a side note, the WoZ machine looks absolutely gorgeous!

Some people don't mind tinkering and others just want to buy something that works. I love electronics, so a pinball machine is going to great for me. On the other hand, I have no desire to open up my refrigerator should something happen so I'll always buy something like that new and even consider an extended warranty.

I sincerely hope Mr. Becker helps you figure out a solution for the home user market that you are advertising to. It's OK to say that having to get service on a pinball machine is inevitable, but it seems like current pinball companies just assume buyers will know that.

It's a brave new world for you as a pinball company and if it weren't for people like Alex and LTG, the negative aspects of the inevitable pinball customer service would vastly outweigh the positives.

I don't know, it seems to me that the consumer should do a little research before buying to find out what's involved in owning a machine.

Thanks for stopping in, Jack.

I think most of the comments in this thread aren't as much critical of how you do things, as they are a commentary on what it will take to expand the market and the expectations of those new buyers.

Unless you're going to include this quote:

Just food for thought.

That's where I am coming at this from. This specific incident just highlights an opportunity for a pinball company to grow to fill a need.

It's up to the pinball companies if they want to take hold of the opportunity and run with it.

I think this post makes a good case for why it's important to buy from a local distributor, exception being if your qualified and willing to work on the machine yourself.

I sent Jack an email when they first got started that I would be happy to service any of their games near me. I figured a lot of guys did...maybe I was wrong.

Cody, you'd be as good as it comes.

I have only had excellent customer service from the beginning with the minor issues I had. I have friends who say they want a pinball machine and I have actually had a couple stop over so I could show them the basics of ownership first. That helps a ton. I am learning more everyday. I EVERY SINGLE NIB game I have EVER bought which is many in the last 5 years as had at least one or two issues.

My business partner lives across the country from me. He would probably buy a pinball from me talking about it all the time, but he has NO INTEREST in pulling the glass to do anything. So I've advised him to not buy one. All I'm saying is that there is probably a decent amount of people like that out there.

Reminds me of salt water aquariums. Lots of people like them, but most don't want to do the work, so they go on a service agreement with someone who comes once a week to maintain it. Obviously they pay for that service.

I can see how these people would be pissed and would be pissed as well but Jen, Lloyd and Jack have been very fair to me. Jen sent me a topper because mine was broken in delivery. I just had a issue with Jack where I asked to buy a certain part that had a issue and he sent me one for free. He didn't have to and I did offer to buy it. Jack is more than fair as far as I can see. All companies have their issues. Good luck to those people.

90% of households have a TV, and a lot of them are Visio brand, so the sales volume helps pay for a nationwide distributor network and technicians to make housecalls on the 2-3% of sets that fail.

Less than .00005% of households in the USA have a JJP pinball. Tough to fund a nationwide service network with those numbers.

Owning a pinball is not the same as owning a TV.