Guns N' Roses (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (SE)
Jersey Jack, 2020Excited for everyone getting their games.. I'm a late order.. looks like not to ship till mid February.. but that's not too far away.. and way better than the waits before for EGWOZ or TH.. everybody keep posting their new toy photos!
Quoted from frankmac:I would say the (GNR CE) is $15,500 to $18,500 easy today (01-20-21)” New in box”.
500 made probably only 250 or less in USA.
1 year from now NIB GNR CE $18,500-$25,000 easy.
This is NIB only .
“Played used pins” would depend on buyer/seller and conditions. I would guess $15,000 to $20,000 depending on who what where and when.
Those prices are so last week. NIB GNR CE $18,500-$25,000 today. Two listed for $20k now and rumors are one changed hands for $30k (probably AU but still a lot). A year from now HUO GNR CE $18,500 and NIB GNR CE $20,000-$25,000. Buyers get your checkbook ready.
It used to be a primo restored MM for $12k-$15k was the gold standard of pinball. Now JJPOTC CE and GNR CE are the platinum standards of pinball. Congrats to JJP for setting the bar higher. 
So far the game is great. Coma lock is a cool mode it sucks to drain but the flat line with the lights is a pretty neat effect. Had to trouble shoot a lot of switches but I think I got everything dialed in. It’s literally a different experience every game and the song volume adjustment during modes to amplify the experience is incredible for anything pinball. As far as game play experience GNR is going to be a hard one to beat for anyone of the usual suspects looking to make another music pin.
Karl is livestreaming GnR with realtime flipper cooling fan temperatures on his channel right now for the next couple hours:
https://www.twitch.tv/iepinball
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Quoted from Skyemont:Guys. Is there any way to cut down the shaker motor. It’s rumbles to much!
Have you tried opening up the shaker and adjusting the weights? From memory moving them more towards the middle will reduce the rattle.
Edit: not sure you can do it on these shakers. Or do you just need to re-align the weights so they are facing opposite ways?
Edit again: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-adjust-a-shaker-motor-on-tftc-tutorial
Quoted from andrewket:$1k sub? That might just be overkill...
I thought with everything about this game already over-the-top ... why not! 
Seriously though I have 7 or 8 Polks hooked up in the Loft already in service and love them - they are affordable but not cheap and sound good too.
I have most of the Polks "shared" between 2 games using Pinnovators mixers - the mixers work awesome for this application. https://pinnovators.myshopify.com/collections/all/products/pinsmx-passive-subwoofer-mixer
For GnR I wanted a better answer than the Polks - thus the SVS-SB3000, it's the entry level version of the SVS subs that has a mobile phone app to control and set the sub. Has a parametric EQ, Variable low pass filter crossover, output control, naming and saving of settings, etc. I was able to very nicely blend the subs massive output to transition smoothing from the sub to cabinet speakers. I'm running it using the low pass filter set at 65Hz. When I first connected it without the low pass filter set, it sounded boomy as I'm sure that cabinet speaker is reproducing quite a bit of mid-bass and my sub did not need to do the same. Once I turned on the low pass filter and moved the crossover point a bit - it sounded perfect. Kick drums have "gut punch". Bass lines in the songs are clear and tactile. I'm loving it and play my GnR at around "32" volume .. wonder what you all play it at? 32 for me is just under where the game will start to distort as the internal amps run out of steam.
Here's the link the oh-so-simple to install Pinnovators sub taps
https://pinnovators.myshopify.com/collections/all-other-systems-subwoofer-kits/products/pinsub-subwoofer-kit-multi-system-blue
IMG_0851 (resized).jpgIMG_0864 (resized).PNGIMG_0860 (resized).PNGIMG_0861 (resized).PNG
Quoted from PinMonk:So I haven't heard back from everyone I asked, but I have enough that have checked and replied to say it's pretty certain that JJP made a running change to the lower right flipper coil.
CEs made since sometime last week (all CEs? Not certain yet) are arriving with two FL-15411s for the bottom two flippers instead of the left being a FL-15411 and the right being a FL-11629 like on the first run of LEs. Given the crazy extreme temps we've seen on the right flipper in testing (219.8F peak temp), that's a good thing, in my opinion. It will make it a LOT easier to keep it cool because the 15411s seem to peak out around 180F under heavy use/lots of trapping, and I can hold that to around 120F or less with the fan kit, which is well below the threshold of fade.
Karl's livestream of jjGnR tonight at 7pm PST with the three different new fan setups (Std, 20% more CFM, 50% more CFM) will give some good data about which configuration the jjGnR kits will end up being, but if this running change for the right flipper sticks, it will make my life a lot easier.
Dual FL-15411's on my CE flippers - serial number is 009. I bet they all went out this way.
Quoted from Vitty:Dual FL-15411's on my CE flippers - serial number is 009. I bet they all went out this way.
Yeah, it's looking like the running change to all 15411s happened after the initial small run of LEs right before the CEs went on the line. It was a good call, IMO.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Those prices are so last week. NIB GNR CE $18,500-$25,000 today. Two listed for $20k now and rumors are one changed hands for $30k (probably AU but still a lot). A year from now HUO GNR CE $18,500 and NIB GNR CE $20,000-$25,000. Buyers get your checkbook ready.
It used to be a primo restored MM for $12k-$15k was the gold standard of pinball. Now JJPOTC CE and GNR CE are the platinum standards of pinball. Congrats to JJP for setting the bar higher.
Where are these buyers at 20+K? PM me
Quoted from meSz:Where are these buyers at 20+K? PM me
Come back in a few weeks and we’ll see what’s shaking. 
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:What is "tip and tell".
There is a small sticker pouch on the box that has tiny pellets that move into the "warning" zone if the package is not kept upright. I may be wrong, but I do not believe it is constructed in a way in which it would detect impact.
Quoted from Mari21:It is here...
No.: 138BTW. the topper audio cable was included and the soundbar works straight out of the box.
Awesome game![quoted image][quoted image]
Nice -- Maybe by time I get mine the door will be powdercoated.
Okay -- I know this game looks awesome and I am sure I will love mine when it gets here some day - But dont yall think that the knob is of plain and just not right - I think that a push putton on this game would have been cool and something that that just blends or goes with that skull more -- BUT I do love the pics that I am seeing -- Just pointing out a couple things and again for me -- My door is going straight over to Matt to get powder coated and might even see about doing a custom airbrushing for this game. Something unique or different maybe.
Thanks and keep the pics coming -- I am picking up my Hellcat back up from the dealer later this week by the weekend - Yall want to see the pics of it be polished and all shined up. LOL Thanks to all PINSIDERS and the passion on this hobby is awesome.
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:Excited for everyone getting their games.. I'm a late order.. looks like not to ship till mid February.. but that's not too far away.. and way better than the waits before for EGWOZ or TH.. everybody keep posting their new toy photos!
Maybe that is when mine will be coming in - Like see the pics and just saw the post where he got the speaker wires and it works right out of the box - So it sounds like those that are getting their game now and forward will not no issue on the topper speakers.
Great game and again going to wait till mine come in and have avoided seeing any videos on this for the most part. So I am sure I will be surprised.
Quoted from Mari21:It is here...
No.: 138BTW. the topper audio cable was included and the soundbar works straight out of the box.
Awesome game![quoted image][quoted image]
Like your Avatar - Lol. I had this commissioned by Richard T. Slone - One of a kind - Just got it picked up a couple weeks ago.
20210103_215347_resized (resized).jpgQuoted from RichieWrench:Like your Avatar - Lol. I had this commissioned by Richard T. Slone - One of a kind - Just got it picked up a couple weeks ago.
[quoted image]
Also did a Richie Wrench for me and I also picked up this other Lion painting that was done for MGM Grand on a commissioned project and was lucky enough to get that one - Its called Midnight Hunt. All painting are original and done on wood. Enjoy - I know its not pinball but a little break from pinball and enjoying some art does not hurt anyone and calms the inner sole in all of us.
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Quoted from RichieWrench:Like your Avatar - Lol. I had this commissioned by Richard T. Slone - One of a kind - Just got it picked up a couple weeks ago.
[quoted image]
Get some sleep bro!
Quoted from PinMonk:So I haven't heard back from everyone I asked, but I have enough that have checked and replied to say it's pretty certain that JJP made a running change to the lower right flipper coil.
CEs made since sometime last week (all CEs? Not certain yet) are arriving with two FL-15411s for the bottom two flippers instead of the left being a FL-15411 and the right being a FL-11629 like on the first run of LEs. Given the crazy extreme temps we've seen on the right flipper in testing (219.8F peak temp), that's a good thing, in my opinion. It will make it a LOT easier to keep it cool because the 15411s seem to peak out around 180F under heavy use/lots of trapping, and I can hold that to around 120F or less with the fan kit, which is well below the threshold of fade.
Karl's livestream of jjGnR tonight at 7pm PST with the three different new fan setups (Std, 20% more CFM, 50% more CFM) will give some good data about which configuration the jjGnR kits will end up being, but if this running change for the right flipper sticks, it will make my life a lot easier.
Sounds like Eric wasn’t dead-set on this flipper needing max power after all?
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Sounds like Eric wasn’t dead-set on this flipper needing max power after all?
My guess *and it's only a guess* is the extreme temps the right flipper with a FL-11629 could generate, especially if trapping was a component of play, wasn't worth the power you got in the beginning. 219.8 is VERY hot for a coil. But FL-15411 that's now on all three main flippers with the Tibetan breeze kit for JJP that's almost done is fine. It dropped temps from 181F uncooled to 110-123F with the fans for the whole almost-3-hour-stream, with most of the temps between 110-115F, well below the threshold for fade.
The crazy thing is that the much smaller left diverter coil (FL-11722, dual wound) beat the 11629 tonight with a 219.9F temp, and all it does is move a diverter. But it's on, holding almost all the time when playing, so even though it's dual wound, it's in "hold" power for probably 60-70% or more of Karl's stream it seemed like. So it doesn't get much time to rest and cool off.
Quoted from PinMonk:My guess *and it's only a guess* is the extreme temps the right flipper with a FL-11629 could generate, especially if trapping was a component of play, wasn't worth the power you got in the beginning. 219.8 is VERY hot for a coil. But FL-15411 that's now on all three main flippers with the Tibetan breeze kit for JJP that's almost done is fine. It dropped temps from 181F uncooled to 110-123F with the fans for the whole almost-3-hour-stream, with most of the temps between 110-115F, well below the threshold for fade.
The crazy thing is that the much smaller left diverter coil (FL-11722, dual wound) beat the 11629 tonight with a 219.9F temp, and all it does is move a diverter. But it's on, holding almost all the time when playing, so even though it's dual wound, it's in "hold" power for probably 60-70% or more of Karl's stream it seemed like. So it doesn't get much time to rest and cool off.
Well as long as Karl didn’t notice any difficulty making all the shots with the weaker flipper, I guess it makes sense.
Weird design on the diverter but I suppose there’s no such thing as “fade” with a diverter, or is there?
Quoted from PinMonk:My guess *and it's only a guess* is the extreme temps the right flipper with a FL-11629 could generate, especially if trapping was a component of play, wasn't worth the power you got in the beginning. 219.8 is VERY hot for a coil. But FL-15411 that's now on all three main flippers with the Tibetan breeze kit for JJP that's almost done is fine. It dropped temps from 181F uncooled to 110-123F with the fans for the whole almost-3-hour-stream, with most of the temps between 110-115F, well below the threshold for fade.
The crazy thing is that the much smaller left diverter coil (FL-11722, dual wound) beat the 11629 tonight with a 219.9F temp, and all it does is move a diverter. But it's on, holding almost all the time when playing, so even though it's dual wound, it's in "hold" power for probably 60-70% or more of Karl's stream it seemed like. So it doesn't get much time to rest and cool off.
Did you end up buying GnR, btw?
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Well as long as Karl didn’t notice any difficulty making all the shots with the weaker flipper, I guess it makes sense.
Weird design on the diverter but I suppose there’s no such thing as “fade” with a diverter, or is there?
He has an original LE run, so he was using the one with the 11629 on the right flipper (with extra cooling). But the revised fans held temps extremely well with this test tonight, so I think the JJP kit is pretty close to done.
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Did you end up buying GnR, btw?
I tried really hard to get one from that first shipment, but through a bunch of crazy circumstances I came up without one, so I'm resigned to waiting until probably Summer when supply eases up. It's the main reason a JJP kit was delayed, but Karl kept asking when kits would be done because GnR flippers were so noodly on longer games. I asked if he'd want to do the testing as I sent him revisions to try long-distance and he agreed in the interests of getting a kit done. He's been very helpful getting this finished so I can release it and move on to older Stern SAM/Whitestar kits and Bally/Williams kits.
Quoted from PinMonk:ur-stream, with most of the temps between 110-115F, well below the threshold for fade.
The crazy thing is that the much smaller left diverter coil (FL-11722, dual wound) beat the 11629 tonight with a 219.9F temp, and all it does is move a diverter. But it's on, holding almost all the time when playing, so even though it's dual wound, it's in "hold" power for probably 60-70% or more of Karl's stream it seemed like. So it doesn't get much time to rest and cool off.
Hi Vic,
I am unable to see streams for some reason
Just wanted to say thanks for your pick up re coil temps
im confused the diverter is cooking ? seems crazy to be on constant hold ?
There has to be a better way
Quoted from RichieWrench:Also did a Richie Wrench for me and I also picked up this other Lion painting that was done for MGM Grand on a commissioned project and was lucky enough to get that one - Its called Midnight Hunt. All painting are original and done on wood. Enjoy - I know its not pinball but a little break from pinball and enjoying some art does not hurt anyone and calms the inner sole in all of us.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Very nice!
Quoted from RA77:Hi Vic,
I am unable to see streams for some reason
Just wanted to say thanks for your pick up re coil temps
im confused the diverter is cooking ? seems crazy to be on constant hold ?
There has to be a better way
It was explained after the last stream, but I don't know if it was in this thread or the regular owners thread. Karl doesn't post the jjGnR streams because twitch will mute them if it detects GnR music for a DMCA violation, so the only way to see the jjGnR gameplay streams with the temps he does is live.
Yeah, it seems like a two stage diverter with a lock and a small coil to release the lock OR a springloaded shaft and a reversed condition so the coil only has to hold in the opposite case would have been a lot better. But I dunno what the development considerations were. They also have room to make another running line change and drop down to a FL-11753 coil that should run a bit cooler. There's supposed to be some software changes coming to help with the heat, too. Be interesting to see what that consists of.
Quoted from PinFever:Zoinks , doesnt the boxes state this side up ? or are is there an option for horizontal transport as well ?
I have no problem with horizontal transport .
As thats how the machine will live for most of it's life , with a shaker motor shaking the shit out of it , going over a few bumps in transport can't equal that .
It trips me out to see a pinball machine in the vertical position . 
Quoted from cybevenom:OUCH. Just watched an unboxing of an CE on stream of Warlock 'n roll pinball and they found out on stream that their cabinet was cracked in several places when setting the game up. A shipping nightmare and worst case scenario when unboxing a brand new machine. I feel so sorry for those guys. Going from a high to rockbottom.
I'm VERY surprised they remained that calm throughout it. I'd completely lose my sh!t if that happened to me on any new machine let alone a 20K dream theme.
I'd really like to follow how this gets dealt with, so sorry to hear about this
Quoted from screaminr:I have no problem with horizontal transport .
As thats how the machine will live for most of it's life , with a shaker motor shaking the shit out of it , going over a few bumps in transport can't equal that .
It trips me out to see a pinball machine in the vertical position .
That’s a good point Scream 
Quoted from screaminr:I have no problem with horizontal transport .
As thats how the machine will live for most of it's life , with a shaker motor shaking the shit out of it , going over a few bumps in transport can't equal that .
It trips me out to see a pinball machine in the vertical position .
In a container it’s not the actual transport, but the loading and unloading process of it getting to horizontal and back vertical onto a forklift or pallet jack. Lots of chances for it to go slamming down.
Quoted from kermit24:In a container it’s not the actual transport, but the loading and unloading process of it getting to horizontal and back vertical onto a forklift or pallet jack. Lots of chances for it to go slamming down.
Yea, in order for it to crack like that i guess it didnt just fell over. Must have dropped from the side of a trailer, loading ramp, or such.
Quoted from cybevenom:yeah, i was watching the live stream and i felt sick to my stomach for those guys. I have an LE on route to my distibutor in Germany and it arrives in the first 2 weeks of february. I ordered an Euro coin mech to be installed by them. So my game get unboxed there so any damage can be noticed by them as well during the install. But really am hoping there will be no red flags. Nevertheless i hope this gets sorted for those guys. Even with the masks on you could see the joy change to horror in their eyes.
Coin Mech, are you paying to play in your home, or will this not be a HUO?
Quoted from zaphX:#54 is here, will unbox this afternoon!
[quoted image]
Awesome....well the tip n tell looks good 
Quoted from zaphX:#54 is here, will unbox this afternoon!
[quoted image]
Looking forward to your review.
Quoted from zaphX:#54 is here, will unbox this afternoon!
[quoted image]
Well it’s 12:09 pm, here.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Well it’s 12:09 pm, here.
Took a quick peek to make sure it's all intact. Have to stop until after work when my wife can spot me escalera-ing up the stairs.
IMG_2712 (resized).jpegIMG_2715 (resized).jpegQuoted from cybevenom:OUCH. Just watched an unboxing of an CE on stream of Warlock 'n roll pinball and they found out on stream that their cabinet was cracked in several places when setting the game up. A shipping nightmare and worst case scenario when unboxing a brand new machine. I feel so sorry for those guys. Going from a high to rockbottom.
got to check that tip n tell. Does JJP do tip n tell or just stern?
Quoted from woody76:got to check that tip n tell. Does JJP do tip n tell or just stern?
JJP does
Quoted from Pinballomatic:JJP does
Good. I got a NIB DI but don't remember.
Quoted from woody76:got to check that tip n tell. Does JJP do tip n tell or just stern?
JJP
Quoted from Pinballomatic:JJP does
Maybe you guys need a drop and tell!
Quoted from zaphX:Those do exist![quoted image]
I think that Shockwatch makes way more sense than the tip n tell....my guess is that would get activated far more frequently than the tip n tell
Quoted from PtownPin:I think that Shockwatch makes way more sense than the tip n tell....my guess is that would get activated far more frequently than the tip n tell
You would think that until your game is shipped on its side glass down. Bottom line there is no magic tool to safeguard against shipping mishaps. JJP could put these in a Vault and shipping would find some way to Houdini it into the bottom of an ocean. If we see dozens of issues maybe reconsider but for now with 1 long range ship issue I think this can be chalked up as an oops by the trucker.
Quoted from Yelobird:You would think that until your game is shipped on its side glass down. Bottom line there is no magic tool to safeguard against shipping mishaps. JJP could put these in a Vault and shipping would find some way to Houdini it into the bottom of an ocean. If we see dozens of issues maybe reconsider but for now with 1 long range ship issue I think this can be chalked up as an oops by the trucker.
I hear ya, but these games come off and on trucks many times so the likelihood of them dropping it hard on the ground is much higher than actually tipping it over (since its on the pallet). That being said why don't they use both? Seems like a good use of a few bucks, and eliminates lot of consumer hassle.
Quoted from zaphX:Those do exist![quoted image]
No shit that’s hilarious I was just kidding!
Quoted from romulusx:No shit that’s hilarious I was just kidding!
surprised they don't put those on all boxes....maybe if the fork lift drivers saw those they would be more careful
Quoted from Dr-pin:Yea, in order for it to crack like that i guess it didnt just fell over. Must have dropped from the side of a trailer, loading ramp, or such.
I am surprised that the box was not damaged
Couple issues and solves to share. First ... was getting my "unfair" share of STDMs on ball launches - manual and otherwise.
Added ONE tiny felt dot and improved STDMs to almost zero. 5 cent and reversible fix
Image below and video of a song with multiple launches and no STDMs
A slow or medium launch will drop the ball to the right flipper
A "fast" launch will hit the felt and pop the ball to the left flipper
Will post a diverter issue in a moment ...
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